-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Wonderful 101 |OT| Diplomacy has failed
- Thread starter ShockingAlberto
- Start date
Did you see that first Saur video he made? He drew all weapon shapes reliably and I think even explained how to properly draw the more complex ones so they're always recognized. Basically, you have to find out the right way to reliably draw the complex shapes.
I think with the hammer, the easiest way was drawing a looong straight line and then only a small circle at the top instead of a short line and big circle that would then end up recognized as a whip.
That's why I think practicing drawing shapes in the Wonderful Missions is a good idea.
I'm just imagining the reviewer playing this game with one of those TV bubbles popping up over his head as he sees his excitement playing it on another console. The glee that would be on his face
The hammer needs practice, I can go behind this, but the destructoïd review mentions a problem to draw a Z... which we are used to draw since elementary school. If he can't pull it, he shouldn't blame the game.
PC Magazine: 4/5
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2424099,00.asp
PC Magazine: 4/5
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2424099,00.asp
I love Jonathan Holmes.
I did and it helped, but it's still problematic, especially the whip and claw that usually get mixed up. The bomb is also pretty hard to draw and the
crossbow
I fully understand that this a game that requires dedication and I am loving it, but I can't ignore that I've been having a hard time getting some drawings to register. Along with bad camera angles at times and some bugs, it can be a pretty damn frustrating ride until you've put in enough effort to realise what a fantastic game it is due to its amazingly deep mechanics.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Again, drawing should be viewed as gestures, not actual shapes. Like, even if you're in a tight spot where drawing lines and circles will send dudes halfway across the ground and up the side of a building, the game doesn't car if this fucks the shape you're trying to draw. It has no impact.
Want to draw a hammer? Short line, release stick. Quick circle, release stick. Press X or A. There's your hammer. Same goes for bomb. Quick circle, release. Quick line for the wick, release. You don't even need to pay attention to what the shape looks like, and this applies to basically every morph.
It does take a fair bit of getting used to, but once you learn the "gesture" and let go of spatial awareness and the visual feedback of what's happening on the screen, drawing is pretty easy and very reliable.
Want to draw a hammer? Short line, release stick. Quick circle, release stick. Press X or A. There's your hammer. Same goes for bomb. Quick circle, release. Quick line for the wick, release. You don't even need to pay attention to what the shape looks like, and this applies to basically every morph.
It does take a fair bit of getting used to, but once you learn the "gesture" and let go of spatial awareness and the visual feedback of what's happening on the screen, drawing is pretty easy and very reliable.
Christberg
Member
This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. Review the game, not the system. Most of the folks looking to buy this won't give a shit that you had to be bothered to dust off a console you don't like to play a game.
Exactly. I even have a shortcut for the bomb, where I just draw a loop (the line actually crossing itself, so not an interrputed motion like the regular circle + straight line) towards the bottom right and the game always recognizes it as the correct shape. Takes about half a second.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=freqlcs2MwE
Kamiya @ PAX!
Says they filmed the panel and will be putting stuff on youtube. Knowing Nintendo's YT account, it will probably be edited down to a few minutes instead of the whole thing but who knows.
Kamiya @ PAX!
Says they filmed the panel and will be putting stuff on youtube. Knowing Nintendo's YT account, it will probably be edited down to a few minutes instead of the whole thing but who knows.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Is that review serious?
let's hope for the best! i desperately wanna see footage of the old build.
This is pretty much what I'm doing. What gestures do you picture when doing the claw, whip and
crossbow
I'm not sure the game doesn't care where your dudes are, plenty of times I had my lines go black when their out of bounds or something. It might be from something else and I'm mixing it up.
Interceptor
Banned
GameInformer Review is up: 7.5. Trouble with controls again.
Step up your game and stop releasing.
I also approve of the loop comment for the bomb.
There's should be reviews of reviews.
Metametacritic. I give most of these TW101 reviews a 4 out of 10.
Interceptor
Banned
Why not just write "I didn't invest a single minute trying to learn the game's mechanics so I think it sucks. It is either the game or me, so I'll blame the game".
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Goddammit, people are awful at videogames.
Seriously, troubling drawing a line up buildings???
I apologize for all of them, Kamiya, I'm truly sorry.
Seriously, troubling drawing a line up buildings???
I apologize for all of them, Kamiya, I'm truly sorry.
bobbychalkers
Member
Nowadays, If I'm reading a review of a game on a Nintendo console and it contains the word "dust" in the first few paragraphs. I pretty much stop reading. Its not relevant, and its extremely played out.
I don't really think it's fair to say that because the score is low, these reviewers are bad at video games.
Opinions are opinions. I think the fact that SO MANY reviews point out troublesome controls is something to consider before purchasing. When I get a Wii U, this will probably be worth a try, but not at full price for me.
Opinions are opinions. I think the fact that SO MANY reviews point out troublesome controls is something to consider before purchasing. When I get a Wii U, this will probably be worth a try, but not at full price for me.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
And then you see people on Youtube who have actually tried to learn the controls perform them almost flawlessly.
If the game was that busted and problematic, how are there guys like Saur, etc.. pulling off the most difficult stuff time and time again with no glitches???
Is there a learning curve???
Perhaps.
But many people from personal experience can tell you that the controls being bad isn't the case at all.
Coolio McAwesome
Member
When I was just a wee lad, I had a friend who really sucked at Street Fighter II. We had never really played a game that required specific gestures like that game did, and my friend couldn't do a super move to save his life. Naturally, he pretty much got destroyed every time he played, and insisted the game sucked as a result.
Reviews are subjective, but my friend was objectively wrong in his critiques of the game.
People who are bashing the Wonderful 101 because they can't figure out the controls are no different than a 10-year-old kid writing off Street Fighter II because they couldn't do a Dragon Punch.
Reviews are subjective, but my friend was objectively wrong in his critiques of the game.
People who are bashing the Wonderful 101 because they can't figure out the controls are no different than a 10-year-old kid writing off Street Fighter II because they couldn't do a Dragon Punch.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Good comparison, I often think of Street Fighter when playing or seeing this game.
This "dust of my [insert nintendo system here]" thing needs to die a painful death. Hey guess what, publishers send you 360 copies for multiplats, sometimes PS3 versions, you only cover the big name Nintendo exclusives (the same ones you're tired of and complain they should scale back and do other games) and ignore all the games that won't get clicks like Zelda/Mario. And you feel like ridiculing the [insert Nintendo system here] for not grabbing your attention enough to have not "gather dust?" Yea fucking right.
I'm having a big conflict these days since I enjoy general game industry/design discussions but they're always sandwiched between so much crap that I keep thinking I should not follow a single games media outlet anymore but that doesn't work with my previously mentioned interest in general discussions. I just want people to not be jaded/cynical dicks all the time.
Someone made that analogy before when the Euro reviews hit. It's very fitting. The game isn't broken, it just has a high skill/dedication requirement. Knocking it for that doesn't make sense, otherwise Petz games should get higher scores for their nonexistent barrier to entry.
Again, not saying everybody has to love it. Pointing out that it's very complex and demanding is totally fair. I just don't agree with using that as a negative point of criticism against it. If it didn't register you attempting to drawn anything at all - that would be an issue. If you're not drawing the correct shape, you're not drawing the correct shape. The Skyward Sword problem all over again.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Some members of GAF can be just as bad as reviewers though... For example, the bitching and moaning about DKCR's motion controls, even though on a technical level they worked perfectly fine, people complained and complained and complained.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Yeah true, I had next-to-no issues with Donkey Kong Country Returns and some said the game was unplayable and broken but then again, that blatant overinflated hyperbole is often used when people don't get their specific ways.
ShockingAlberto
Member
...don't hit A?
megabytecr
Member
Yeah, I find very strange how a journalist cannot say the controls have a learning curve instead of the controls are bad, which are 2 very different things.
I always love the games that are so polarizing and that have higher user reviews than critic reviews, this is why I bought ZombieU after all the reviews came out, but also had a lot of user reviews including here on GAF.
It is also very sad how the majority of game media view and review games on Nintendo systems. They are so biased is not even funny. Bashing on Nintendo and games on the platform is really cool and funny. Yes they made a lot of mistakes, but the bashing and doom articles are getting a bit out of hand, I really wish all of this "journalist" would eat crow someday.
I always love the games that are so polarizing and that have higher user reviews than critic reviews, this is why I bought ZombieU after all the reviews came out, but also had a lot of user reviews including here on GAF.
It is also very sad how the majority of game media view and review games on Nintendo systems. They are so biased is not even funny. Bashing on Nintendo and games on the platform is really cool and funny. Yes they made a lot of mistakes, but the bashing and doom articles are getting a bit out of hand, I really wish all of this "journalist" would eat crow someday.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
same for me, anytime a console is brought up in a review I immediately stop taking that review seriously.
I wasn't on GAF back then but I complained to myself about them lol. But mostly because I simply didn't like them and preferred the classic controls of the old games. They were never a problem per se, just an annoyance. All they needed to do was include CC support.
To bring it back to TW101, they're doing the equivalent of that by also letting you draw with the stick instead of forcing the touch screen on you. Also with supporting CC, CC Pro, Pro Controllers.
Phatosaurus
Member
The only objective criticism I've seen in a review for this so far is the camera. Enemies are often off screen leaving me vulnerable to unseen attacks.
The camera glitched on me once when I was replaying the game on hard. It stuck in place while I was fighting two turtles that were almost completely off screen. Not a pleasant experiance.
The controls work perfectly, drawing on the gamepad or with the right stick. I've had no problem with either.
None of the reviews bring up how much deptb there is to the combat either and that really rubs me the wrong way.
There's so much more to this game than what first meets the eye yet none of these "journalist" reviewers have tucked into the meaty combat gets TW101.
The camera glitched on me once when I was replaying the game on hard. It stuck in place while I was fighting two turtles that were almost completely off screen. Not a pleasant experiance.
The controls work perfectly, drawing on the gamepad or with the right stick. I've had no problem with either.
None of the reviews bring up how much deptb there is to the combat either and that really rubs me the wrong way.
There's so much more to this game than what first meets the eye yet none of these "journalist" reviewers have tucked into the meaty combat gets TW101.
ShockingAlberto
Member
If it's pink, you made the whip, Hit A!
If it's white, you did not make the whip. Do not hit A. Try to reform the whip or hit Y to recall. Alternatively, just draw the whip, it's not really difficult. If you can run a character around in a zigzag, you can draw one.
If it's white, you did not make the whip. Do not hit A. Try to reform the whip or hit Y to recall. Alternatively, just draw the whip, it's not really difficult. If you can run a character around in a zigzag, you can draw one.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Exactly. It's one thing to say you don't like the controls, which is fine. But criticizing a game because you don't put the work to learn how to play is unacceptable. I certainly wasn't comfortable playing TW101 demo at first, but each time I replayed it I got better and better... I can't wait until the 15th now. I think a certain satisfaction comes from that too. But I guess in this day and age of instant gratification, many just expect to be able to master a game within a few minutes of booting it up.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
It's a bit different though, some have a problem with this game's mechanics(system) rather than the input to initiate it.
Yes, they go hand in hand but I heard some say there should be some wheel or shortcut buttons to hit to make the weapons instead of the drawing system.
I think this is insane though and takes away the uniqueness, challenge and appeal of being a SUPERhero.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I accidentally pushed the wrong direction in Bayonetta. Rather than readjust and move toward the right direction, I kept going and jumping until I fell in a pit. I don't understand why the designers didn't consider that I might do this.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
I wasn't either, I just joined, but I've lurked for a few years now. I don't think there is anything wrong with not liking them, and even docking points for that. A review has subjective aspects after all, but to claim that something is broken when it is just the reviewer or the player sucking at it is a big no no.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Seemed about right until they mentioned it wasn't a particularly deep system.
It's deeper than I thought it'd be and I keep seeing new tactics and combos every day.
Still, a good sum up from what I have played and read.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I think plenty of complaints about the accessibility (or lack thereof) can be levied at this game. Camera, too.
But using gestures to summon unites works unless you're actively trying to create situations where it doesn't so you can go "Look, see how badly this works?"
The game basically color codes everything for you.
But using gestures to summon unites works unless you're actively trying to create situations where it doesn't so you can go "Look, see how badly this works?"
The game basically color codes everything for you.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
It's 2013, standards have evolved.
A game that requires the player learn a skill is bad design don't you know. It wastes the player's valuable time when they could be doing more important things than playing video games.
Therefore any game which requires one learn the controls has bad controls.
Except it actually is a deep system.
Nocturnowl
Member
The real issue with the controls if there is one isn't that they are inherently unreliable at all, it's that the extra complexity of drawing a shape instead of just pressing a button opens up much more potential for user error and unfortunately for some people it's easier to throw your hands up and say that the controls don't work then to admit that somewhere in the shape drawing process things may have gone slightly awry on the players end. Practice makes perfect but not everyone is going to want to put in the effort, that SF2 anecdote from Coolio a few posts ago feels pretty fitting here.
Unfortunately the game doing the bare minimum to really explain things doesn't help, though I for one am kind of glad that upon learning a new shape input we don't have to be slowly talked through how to draw it and repeat the process 5 times before moving on.
The comparison of drawing shapes with the stick to fighting game gestures more than fits the bill, the more you practice at it the better you get at pulling off the shapes consistently, while this still has its own small extra hump to get over compared to your standard control stick gestures due to making different weapon sizes that to is something you get used to.
There were points in the game where I had trouble pulling off certain shapes, the bomb at first was a troubling point for me and I wanted to say that the game had wronged me and that my bomb shapes were perfect, now I can chuck out the explosives like i'm Bomberman himself and of course my original "perfect" bomb shape was not quite the shape I was supposed to be making. But when it comes down to it this style of input isn't going to be for everyone, of course people are free to dislike it but it is by no means a broken control scheme or anything like that, though I will add that the act of making a straight line into a wonder toilet is unusually fiddly to pull off at times though I think that's more a camera related dilemma.
Unfortunately the game doing the bare minimum to really explain things doesn't help, though I for one am kind of glad that upon learning a new shape input we don't have to be slowly talked through how to draw it and repeat the process 5 times before moving on.
The comparison of drawing shapes with the stick to fighting game gestures more than fits the bill, the more you practice at it the better you get at pulling off the shapes consistently, while this still has its own small extra hump to get over compared to your standard control stick gestures due to making different weapon sizes that to is something you get used to.
There were points in the game where I had trouble pulling off certain shapes, the bomb at first was a troubling point for me and I wanted to say that the game had wronged me and that my bomb shapes were perfect, now I can chuck out the explosives like i'm Bomberman himself and of course my original "perfect" bomb shape was not quite the shape I was supposed to be making. But when it comes down to it this style of input isn't going to be for everyone, of course people are free to dislike it but it is by no means a broken control scheme or anything like that, though I will add that the act of making a straight line into a wonder toilet is unusually fiddly to pull off at times though I think that's more a camera related dilemma.
Man, Polygon have really let themselves go on their reviews. First Sim City, then Dragon's Crown, then Killer is Dead, and now this. I am consistently reminded why I don't trust their review system. That site lets even the smallest arbitrary nitpick control the score.
Interceptor
Banned
Yep. You can translate it to the "journalist" yawning that he has to do a review for this Nintendo thingy again.