Adapting comics to live action.
This article is terrible because he skips over so much of Ultron's history.
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The Worst Thing About Avengers: Age of Ultron is Ultron (Spoilers)
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Adapting comics to live action.
This article is terrible because he skips over so much of Ultron's history.
While the Aether is coming out of his limbs- the actual impact isn't shown, the camera zooms out to a wide shot.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Only with a new quirk so you can't re-use the same method of defeating them.
Yes. I liked that he showed genuine care for the twins, but that should've faded as he became more cold and detached, becoming more ruthless.
Instead we got a quipping Loki Jr.
Holy shit, comic books.
They really went out of their way to make it sound like he's not coming back.
Vision
at the end of the movie.
They just could just as easily ret-con it.
They also had a very mis-leading campaign in the trailers, (granted, marketing does trailers, not the director) giving an impression of Ultron's (the character not the movie) tone.
Vision
blocked him out of the internet, not? and they made sure to mention, if we now destroy the other bodies, we kill him
They just could just as easily ret-con it.
They also had a very mis-leading campaign in the trailers, (granted, marketing does trailers, not the director) giving an impression of Ultron's (the character not the movie) tone.
Rodney McKay
Member
Yeah, if all he needs is even just ONE spare robot (or a save on a harddrive somewhere) to stay immortal, then he'd have to be the dumbest villain yet if he didn't do that. Just tuck a spare minion/copy in a closet somewhere on the other side of the planet and he'd be good.
It's actually quite amazing how writers constantly need to top themselves in order to get out of the corners they constantly paint each other into.
I agree but in terms of fatigue, I thought the same last year but from the opening dance of 'Come and get your Love', GOTG hooked me back in.
If it's a good film, fatigue shouldn't matter
I think that generally, when you get down to it, the interplay between Vision and Ultron is a lot more profound than a matter of life and death for the both of them. The ending scene in particular felt like it was their way to level a semblance of "these two are more alike at first glance than what you'd assume" and make the ethos of both beings far more ambiguous than mere binary definitions.
Even though Vision constitutes what we'd consider a "good guy", the movie makes it a key point that Vision can't really be trusted. It's actually brought up even in the ending scene of the movie - but Thor reassures that it should be okay simply because he was "worthy" to carry the hammer, which is funny because you'd imagine that someone far less ambiguous and readily good willed like Cap would carry that hammer before him. The definition of worthy doesn't necessarily have to rule in someone's favor based on our own expectation of the definition. Meanwhile, Ultron is constantly leveling disaster schemes that will tear the heroes apart, but even so he expresses genuine concern over the twins, takes personal offense to the idea of being compared to his creator and has a maniacal complex about him - yet it mostly stems from wanting to "evolve" the human race, since for the most of the movie he never expresses an active interest to simply kill everyone; it's just getting rid of the Avengers. For that matter his motivations were in large part stemmed primarily from fear. He generally has a mature demeanor yet inhabits the naivety and mindset of a newborn. There's a yin and yang mentality in regards to both of them and their will to essentially "stop" their agendas as opposed to actively destroying each other for their self benefit. When it comes to both of those, they essentially exist to cancel each other out.
Ultron might not have been the best execution of an MCU villain and I still don't think he quite tops Red Skull or Loki, but he's easily the most fascinating one that has appeared to date, and much of it is partially due to Vision. I really want to rewatch the movie again soon.
Even though Vision constitutes what we'd consider a "good guy", the movie makes it a key point that Vision can't really be trusted. It's actually brought up even in the ending scene of the movie - but Thor reassures that it should be okay simply because he was "worthy" to carry the hammer, which is funny because you'd imagine that someone far less ambiguous and readily good willed like Cap would carry that hammer before him. The definition of worthy doesn't necessarily have to rule in someone's favor based on our own expectation of the definition. Meanwhile, Ultron is constantly leveling disaster schemes that will tear the heroes apart, but even so he expresses genuine concern over the twins, takes personal offense to the idea of being compared to his creator and has a maniacal complex about him - yet it mostly stems from wanting to "evolve" the human race, since for the most of the movie he never expresses an active interest to simply kill everyone; it's just getting rid of the Avengers. For that matter his motivations were in large part stemmed primarily from fear. He generally has a mature demeanor yet inhabits the naivety and mindset of a newborn. There's a yin and yang mentality in regards to both of them and their will to essentially "stop" their agendas as opposed to actively destroying each other for their self benefit. When it comes to both of those, they essentially exist to cancel each other out.
Ultron might not have been the best execution of an MCU villain and I still don't think he quite tops Red Skull or Loki, but he's easily the most fascinating one that has appeared to date, and much of it is partially due to Vision. I really want to rewatch the movie again soon.
Just about everything in these films is some contrived plot device though. It's the Marvel formula.
I know everyone loves Vision, but he's one as well. Knowing that he's just a chaos emerald/Dragonball for Thanos kind of sucks.
Can he survive without the gem? Or does he just need it for his powers?
Ultron was fumbled, but if they developed him more he could've been the best villain in that universe. There were sprinkles of some good ideas and arcs they could've went with. But it gets muddled in the films somewhat sloppy execution.
I know everyone loves Vision, but he's one as well. Knowing that he's just a chaos emerald/Dragonball for Thanos kind of sucks.
Can he survive without the gem? Or does he just need it for his powers?
Ultron was fumbled, but if they developed him more he could've been the best villain in that universe. There were sprinkles of some good ideas and arcs they could've went with. But it gets muddled in the films somewhat sloppy execution.
Freddy=Legend
Member
DeaconKnowledge
Member
A small quibble that bothered me - Ultron's face. The
clones in the movielooked more like Ultron than Ultron did.
Yeah the Antivrius eventually evolves into a new species with it's own real gods and worships Vision and Hank Pym. Actually a pretty fun series.
I just don't think he had enough time. They should've leaned into the estranged father/son dynamic between Tony/Ultron/Vision more, but given the constraints of the run time and other obligations in a movie such as this, something had to give. Loki had the benefit of the first Thor movie to establish his motivations, Ultron did not.
It's too bad, because there's some poignancy to Ultron's adolescent-like nature, especially in his demise to both Wanda and Vision.
It's too bad, because there's some poignancy to Ultron's adolescent-like nature, especially in his demise to both Wanda and Vision.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
It's too bad the AI concept wasn't dabbled in before this movie. IM3 would have been perfect for it.
Ultron is most likely dead forever in the MCU because there is no reason to bring him back.
With such limited time there is no point at all in rehashing villains.
If there is an Avengers 4 they're not going to bring back Ultron, they will introduce a new villain. Maybe Kang or Hyperion or even Korvac.
With such limited time there is no point at all in rehashing villains.
If there is an Avengers 4 they're not going to bring back Ultron, they will introduce a new villain. Maybe Kang or Hyperion or even Korvac.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Also, the only villain wasted in the movie was Strucker.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I really doubt he would have signed a multi-film contract.
If they really do want to bring him back for an Annihilation Conquest adaptation they can go for it, but if he doesn't want to reprise the role, you don't really need to give ultron the same voice every time he appears. He's like Red Skull in that they don't need Weaving back if he doesn't want to do it again.
Probably not dead. From the vision line about not wanting to kill him, to the cutaway "death" scene, to Ultron probably having a backup somewhere on the net he isn't dead. I really liked him as a villain. He was quipy because he was stark with the limits turned off. Arrogant to a fault that his plan could not fail and supremely confident in his ability to account for every contigency. I thought he was great. He did need more time though I would agree. More interactions with Tony especially. IM3 would have been nice to have shadowing for future problems. Tony realizing that his suits were too dumb to be effective, that they needed some higher thinking behind them to make them effective, Tony realizing he needed an out from being a superhero while still protecting the world, culminating with him and Banner discussing the Ultron project would have been perfect.
SomedayTheFire
Member
the worst part of every marvel film is the villain in my opinion. they're spectacularly bad at it. Shame since we've gotten so many possibly brilliant villains.
BigJonsson
Member
The worst thing is that it was almost too entertaining
Just_myles
Member
It was perfect. Also we don't know what Vision did to his "core" as it were. He could be keeping Ultron alive and hiding him somewhere. Vision even stated that he did not want to kill Ultron if memory serves me right. Who is to say he did? Who is to say he won't pop up in some form in the future? An AOS episode perhaps? Let's not assume these kinds of things if we didn't actually see it.
Also let's remember that in the context of the movie, Vision lifted Thor's hammer. I am of the impression that he is not a cold and calculated killer by any stretch.
Also let's remember that in the context of the movie, Vision lifted Thor's hammer. I am of the impression that he is not a cold and calculated killer by any stretch.
Yeah, this was kinda a shock to me from the get-go. It's no biggie since I enjoyed this take on him as well.
Deified Data
Banned
I agree that they heavily nerfed Ultron in AoU, but they kind of had to if we wanted any sort of resolution.
I mean, we already know Thanos is coming and we know it's going to take two movies to tell his story. Say Ultron does what he does in AoU and we get a post-post-credits scene of him shambling off to build an even bigger, better version of himself. What then? Age of Ultron 2? The best we could hope for is a cameo, and that's not really respectful of the character, either.
I thought they did well by Ultron within the confines of finishing his story in a single movie. He's not like Loki who we can drag out for his woobie appeal whenever it's convenient. The argument could be made that if they couldn't do Ultron right they shouldn't have done him at all, which has some merit, but that's another conversation entirely.
Regardless of how it ended, I personally believe they could have built up to him a bit more. Why we got a post-credits scene for the forgettable Maximoffs instead of something Ultron related is beyond me. If they insisted on making Ultron a creation of Tony they could have made it a side-story in Iron Man 3. To me the biggest sin isn't that Ultron gets his ass kicked, it's that he just kind of comes out of nowhere due to Tony's artificial stupidity.
I mean, we already know Thanos is coming and we know it's going to take two movies to tell his story. Say Ultron does what he does in AoU and we get a post-post-credits scene of him shambling off to build an even bigger, better version of himself. What then? Age of Ultron 2? The best we could hope for is a cameo, and that's not really respectful of the character, either.
I thought they did well by Ultron within the confines of finishing his story in a single movie. He's not like Loki who we can drag out for his woobie appeal whenever it's convenient. The argument could be made that if they couldn't do Ultron right they shouldn't have done him at all, which has some merit, but that's another conversation entirely.
Regardless of how it ended, I personally believe they could have built up to him a bit more. Why we got a post-credits scene for the forgettable Maximoffs instead of something Ultron related is beyond me. If they insisted on making Ultron a creation of Tony they could have made it a side-story in Iron Man 3. To me the biggest sin isn't that Ultron gets his ass kicked, it's that he just kind of comes out of nowhere due to Tony's artificial stupidity.
I disagree.
Iron Man / Tony Stark was the worst thing about the movie. No amount of clever quips and CG could endear me to a character making such stupid bone headed decisions, and I'm sick of his remote control hollow men giving the special effects guys too much to do. The character and his technology crowded out a dense movie with some heady character concepts in it that all needed far more development.
Iron Man / Tony Stark was the worst thing about the movie. No amount of clever quips and CG could endear me to a character making such stupid bone headed decisions, and I'm sick of his remote control hollow men giving the special effects guys too much to do. The character and his technology crowded out a dense movie with some heady character concepts in it that all needed far more development.
He was a child, basically.
Viewing him as a child ... eh, his arc made sense, and I think it's a novel way to approach an AI-driven ultra-powerful robot. It has a simplistic view on the world, whereas another artificial intelligence in the film has a contrastingly more complete sense of 'intelligence', beyond a very simplistic, child-like viewpoint on the world. It's more interesting than the 'Brainiac' approach, or a cold "HUMAN'S MUST BE DESTROYED" automaton, I'd say.
Moving him into his Ultron body was mishandled quite badly, and I think that somewhat truncates the character's sense of progression and growth.
EDIT:
People seem to think Ultron's not dead? Of course the door is always open but I'm pretty sure the intention was to wipe him off the table.
Viewing him as a child ... eh, his arc made sense, and I think it's a novel way to approach an AI-driven ultra-powerful robot. It has a simplistic view on the world, whereas another artificial intelligence in the film has a contrastingly more complete sense of 'intelligence', beyond a very simplistic, child-like viewpoint on the world. It's more interesting than the 'Brainiac' approach, or a cold "HUMAN'S MUST BE DESTROYED" automaton, I'd say.
Moving him into his Ultron body was mishandled quite badly, and I think that somewhat truncates the character's sense of progression and growth.
EDIT:
People seem to think Ultron's not dead? Of course the door is always open but I'm pretty sure the intention was to wipe him off the table.
Just_myles
Member
Spinluck said:
I just don't understand what you mean. I don't understand how it was sloppily executed. Did you want to see him in previous movies like Loki so that when we start off, we already know what Ultron is about. Maybe your digging a little deeper than you need to.
Also I believe Ultron was as maniacal as he needed to be and those kind of villains(with issues) are what Whedon is actually good at. Watch any season of Buffy(yes) and that should be enough.
In the end I guess it would have been nice to see Ultron have an extended arc where he is actually useful to the avengers before he turns. Tony and Banner make the Ultron discovery once they recover the septer, another hydra base is found thought to have the twins hiding out there, avengers break in, hulk gets enraged by the witch and with ultron on the sidelines trying to protect humanity from not the evil bad guys but now the avengers who are destroying a city along with its citizens trying to contain the hulk. Ultron internalizes this and begins turning.
This is the most interesting part of the article:
Until this piece, I didn't realize there was an "end game" to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It felt like a series of interconnected movies that could have gone on forever. There was no consequences, no forward momentum other than more and more characters entering the fray. If it's true that this is all building to a fight with Thanos, that's a great thing in my eyes.
But if it is true, they're handling it terribly. Like the piece said, we don't know anything about Thanos. If you look back at something like Harry Potter, there is talk of Voldemort throughout the series, so it's always in the back of your mind that he's the reason all of these events are taking place. Each step leads us one step closer to the invertible showdown between him and Harry, and we understand who he is and why he's chosen his path more as the story gets deeper.
There's nothing like that in the MCU. It's why I feel lost when I see these movies. They're often fun but there's nothing else there for me to latch on to.
The lack of real villains (outside of Loki) kills any tension or empathy for what's going on.
Until this piece, I didn't realize there was an "end game" to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It felt like a series of interconnected movies that could have gone on forever. There was no consequences, no forward momentum other than more and more characters entering the fray. If it's true that this is all building to a fight with Thanos, that's a great thing in my eyes.
But if it is true, they're handling it terribly. Like the piece said, we don't know anything about Thanos. If you look back at something like Harry Potter, there is talk of Voldemort throughout the series, so it's always in the back of your mind that he's the reason all of these events are taking place. Each step leads us one step closer to the invertible showdown between him and Harry, and we understand who he is and why he's chosen his path more as the story gets deeper.
There's nothing like that in the MCU. It's why I feel lost when I see these movies. They're often fun but there's nothing else there for me to latch on to.
The lack of real villains (outside of Loki) kills any tension or empathy for what's going on.
That's really the norm with superhero movies outside of Batman and X-Men. Even Spider-Man, who has a great rogues gallery to choose from, didn't have much (I love Alfred Molina in Spider-Man 2, but he gets barely any screen-time or development).
Batman nails the villains. Both Jokers, Catwoman, the Penguin, Scarecrow, Liam Neeson, Bane, all really great memorable villains.
I think my favorite superhero movie villain is from Unbreakable though, because holy shit
Samuel L Jackson
Orbis Tabula
Member
I don't think he's dead. I guess we'll see.
This is pretty much my problem with Ultron as well. The movie really should have played up his self improving nature more. Avengers never actually had a problem with him - Scarlet Witch was the only one to frazzle them. No tension and stupid tripping flashback scenes were the result.
CloudyTuba
Member
1.
2. Uploaded himself to the entire internet
If they want him back it can easily happen and it wont even be hard. I've already assumed he's chilling on Google's servers. Troubled that he no longer has a body and no direct way to build a new one (I'm sure Tony locked that shit up), but existent.
There are much greater problems to worry about in AoU before getting to this one.
Died off screen
If they want him back it can easily happen and it wont even be hard. I've already assumed he's chilling on Google's servers. Troubled that he no longer has a body and no direct way to build a new one (I'm sure Tony locked that shit up), but existent.
There are much greater problems to worry about in AoU before getting to this one.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Eh not really. That would give him sufficient reason to eliminate the Avengers, but it wouldn't explain his desire to destroy humanity. It makes more sense that he looks at recorded human history (something he would do immediately after accessing the internet), and realizes peace cannot be achieved with humanity as is.
I don't believe there's an endgame, there's plans for the MCU to continue after Thanos but they are building that confrontation up though as the ultimate battle.
But you bring up a lot of great points... them "building up Thanos" has been a giant ball dropping on their part. All we've seen his incompetent managing by losing two stones that should have been his and then an inferior turning on him and keeping the stone. He hasn't done anything, nor have they built his character so far.
Not sure if it matters, but they still review well and make a killing in the box office.
Spoilers:
Didn't Vision disconnect him from the internet or something? When he grabbed him by the head near the end?
Version 3.0
Member
The worst thing about Ultron was that he had moving metal lips.
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
Nah, that didn't make any sense.
CloudyTuba
Member
I dont remember you're probably right. But hey, if that was near the end, maybe the most recent version didnt make the cut but who is to say that an earlier version isnt hanging around?
Or was that already covered as well?
And his development of that could start after he decides to destroy the avengers but in the movie it just feels like he starts out default evil because they were already pretty deep into the film and needed to get the ball rolling.
Anton Sugar
Member
It's worse when you look at the concepts of what could have been.
Artbook?
It's worse when you look at the concepts of what could have been.
The only truly bad one is the second one from the left on the bottom, and maybe the second from the left on the top. The rest look like Ultron.
The moving lips thing (with teeth no less) was stupid. But they wanted to capture more of Spader's performance (he did well with what he had).
It's worse when you look at the concepts of what could have been.
You have to be kidding me? My biggest complaint was the design of Ultron was so tame compared to his comic book self and they could have some of these designs?!
Also yeah, those CG lips were awful and distracting.
They mentioned afterwards they have to destroy every last copy, and made it sound like he didn't survive, but I'm not sure if they did ever catch them all.
Anton Sugar
Member
Not sure--someone posted it in the non-spoiler AoU OT.
God Dayumm
Banned
I agree with you. Bringing Ultron back would be too much character creep in a series of movies that already has to deal with a ton of characters and lore
GuitarAtomik
Member
I don't know. Maybe if this was a two-parter but, like you said, they needed to get the ball rolling.
Don't get me wrong. These are awesome. But they also are pretty incapable of showing any emotion. That would be fine if Ultron was a run of the mill murderbot, but what makes him interesting is that he actually does have emotion. It makes sense they'd give him lips and more facial characteristics.
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