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[Satyamdas]

Perhaps, but you will be surprised how far most people will go when the right psychological buttons are pushed, particularly with authority figures. Do I need to remind you of the Milgram Experiment and the Stanford Prison Experiment .

Cold blood? Perhaps not. But if the Milgram Experiment is anything to go by, about 60 percent of people can be expected to do kill another under the command of authority figures.

That's all interesting stuff, but random acts of gangrape or murder across the globe are not being commanded under threat of an authority figure, and the discussion was in regards to whether such aberrant behavior could be considered "normal" for humans to engage in.

With human behavior and psychology, there is always going to be some levels of variation in every one, and collectively in almost every factor. That is how biology works and psychology as well. There are social norms, but I think its better to refer to things as natural verses socially acceptable. Abominable behavior like gang rape is a minority likely because the society as a whole as deemed it unacceptable. Humans are a hierarchical species. We are biologically disposed to following authority and I think you gravely underestimate how easily people can go when under the influence of an authority figure, which is, unfortunately, natural and frighteningly common.

If society deems something unacceptable like murder or rape, and the incidents of such are continually denounced and perpetrators punished, then I think it is fair to say they fall outside of the "normal" behavior of most humans. That point was only made because abnormal acts like rape and murder are so offensive to people that a common reaction is to call for blood or to label the perpetrators as something subhuman or as a "monster".

Your repeated references to an authority commanding rape and murder are out of place in a discussion involving a random act by people who are acting under no such threat.

 

[2San]

The logistics are fucking with me. How the hell do you get THAT many people together at once to do this sort of thing?

Honestly, how the fuck do they know who's a fucking gangrapist/pedophile. These are people all from the same community so it's not like they found each other on-line or anything.

 

[g.r.e.]

The girl's mother says she has been receiving harassing phone calls from people asking for her daughter.

"[People] keep calling and asking for her," the victim's mother, identified only as Maria, told The Houston Chronicle. "They don't believe me when I say she's not here and cuss us out. They're trying to find her."

What the hell is wrong with them? Not only the kid was raped by 18 people, now she and her family are being harassed too? Sick fucks, all of them.

 

[Masked Man]

Kill those people too.

I would not object. It absolutely astounds me how ignorant people are of the realities of sex and the severity of rape. How sick and twisted must one be to spin the situation around and place the blame on the victim and her parents?

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

The community and families of the rapists bother me more than the rapists themselves.


It is hard to figure out. You see these cretins all the time on the news and I never understand them. If they genuinely didn't know that their kids / friends / guys down the road were scum then they're as thick as pig shit.

Is pig shit thick? That's the first time I've heard that expression.

 

[Walshicus]

Is pig shit thick? That's the first time I've heard that expression.

Its common in England (my old China).

 

[SmokyDave]

Is pig shit thick? That's the first time I've heard that expression.

Thick as two short planks, if you prefer.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Its common in England (my old China).

England... the land of fairy tales and gunpowder.
shoulda known.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I would not object. It absolutely astounds me how ignorant people are of the realities of sex and the severity of rape. How sick and twisted must one be to spin the situation around and place the blame on the victim and her parents?

I think this is has to do with the "no snitching" mentality moreso than complicity to rape. The outrage is directed at the girl for daring to step out of the community to solve her problem; a very backward way of thinking, but not uncommon in poor urban communities.

Ignorance towards the reality of rape and broken sexual norms definitely "helps" in this case. To my knowledge the only places where gang rape is endemic are some of the rougher areas of South Africa.

 

[Dabanton]

A guy i used to go to school with raped a girl along with 7 other guys he hung around with.

He got caught and sent down for 6 years his out now and i see him around. I once asked him why he did it. He said it's a strange feeling to be pulled along into something that you know is wrong but the moment happens and the next thing your doing it, he said the number of people involved at the time temporarily made up for the outright shame of it all afterwards.

Another case from round my way was a girl who as some girls do at the age 14/15 they get enamoured with the 'bad boys' in the area. The gangmembers etc she invited them round her house to chill while her mum was away, and she had sex with one of them. Then they all wanted a piece and raped her one at a time 4 guys this time.

She told one of her 'friends' in confidence who spread it around the estate. Her mum finally found out and called the police. The guys were arrested, but the strange thing is just like in this case the girl was the one who was getting it worse from other females who called her a slag and the rest,she had been known for being flirty etc and nothing excuses rape but there was a feeling of you got what you asked for from the girls on the estate.

Anyway she had to move away as the gang threatened to burn her house down if she went to court in the end no one was charged.

 

[tiff]

It is hard to figure out. You see these cretins all the time on the news and I never understand them. If they genuinely didn't know that their kids / friends / guys down the road were scum then they're as thick as pig shit.

It's either genuine surprise (I imagine that there aren't really many signs that someone is willing to gang rape an 11 year-old short of them just saying "I would gang rape an 11 year-old") or denial that someone they have presumably had relatively normal relations with for years is capable of something as barbaric as this.

Also bear in mind that there's only video evidence against 5 of these individuals so it's possible that some of these people may be right.

 

[bengraven]

Why?

WHY?

Why are 13 men so desperate that they gang together to rape a little girl? I hate to say this, but can't some of them find women to consensually fuck them, even if for money? I suppose if they raped anyone older, they would be worried that person would turn them in.

We no longer live in a world where rape is an act of warfare or necessary for brutish copulation.

Why are there 13 people so fucking crazy that end up meeting up with each other?

I hate this planet. I hate this country. Fuck the planet. We deserve a meteor.

 

[Pathetic Basement Virgin]

The "boys will be boys" comment is from some "expert" not the assholes who rape the girl.
I'm sure no one has said that.

 

[Rad Agast]

I'm unsure if you people are being hyperbolic, or bombastic, but saying things like "They're animals" or "their monsters" only serves to diminish their crimes. It's almost childish and it annoys me. Humans are animals. But even animals have standards. Monsters don't exist.

In the end, the people responsible are unimaginably cruel and incredibly stupid. That they were foolish enough to video tape it is something of a blessing in disguise. There is no way they are getting out of their crimes.

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/adjectives.htm

You seem to be quite capable of using them your self but for some reason refuse to accept the two being used by others in this thread to describe the people involved in this act.

 

[The Super Bob]

Firstly put everyone who was involved in the rape of the girl in prison until they die. This is inexcusable.

Secondly can somebody go and punch the people who are blaming/harassing the victim.

 

[eznark]

Jesus the NYT article is strange:

“It’s just destroyed our community,” said Sheila Harrison, 48, a hospital worker who says she knows several of the defendants. “These boys have to live with this the rest of their lives.”

Who the fuck cares?!

“Where was her mother? What was her mother thinking?” said Ms. Harrison, one of a handful of neighbors who would speak on the record. “How can you have an 11-year-old child missing down in the Quarters?”

Residents in the neighborhood where the abandoned trailer stands — known as the Quarters — said the victim had been visiting various friends there for months. They said she dressed older than her age, wearing makeup and fashions more appropriate to a woman in her 20s. She would hang out with teenage boys at a playground, some said.

Oh I see. you're worried about the boys' lives because clearly it wasn't their fault. What a pathetic community.

A very similar story happened in Milwaukee a few years ago with guys ranging from 14-35. Disgusting. Of course the same shit happened on the back end, with moms blaming the girl.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29271209.html

 

[pigeon interrupted]

“Where was her mother? What was her mother thinking?” said Ms. Harrison, one of a handful of neighbors who would speak on the record. “How can you have an 11-year-old child missing down in the Quarters?”

Residents in the neighborhood where the abandoned trailer stands — known as the Quarters — said the victim had been visiting various friends there for months. They said she dressed older than her age, wearing makeup and fashions more appropriate to a woman in her 20s. She would hang out with teenage boys at a playground, some said.

God damn, there are some awful people on this planet. The bolded part only describes about half the young female population of the developed world! It is what it is. People think that can excuse rape. Rape = Murder.

 

[Quacking]

Hate to hear such things, it's just insane.

 

[Rad Agast]

Jesus the NYT article is strange:

“It’s just destroyed our community,” said Sheila Harrison, 48, a hospital worker who says she knows several of the defendants. “These boys have to live with this the rest of their lives.”

Who the fuck cares?!

There is a good chance that not all 18 suspects were involved in this incident. Well, at least I hope so.

 

[YoungHav]

well I hope they don't wrongfully convict any people. Good thing there was video evidence.

 

[Cimarron]

well I hope they don't wrongfully convict any people. Good thing there was video evidence.

Good. One thing that always disturbed me was that while I 100% support withholding the names of potential victims in rape cases it always bothered me that when someone is accused or arrested for a sex crime that thier personal information is blasted all over the news. The mere accusation of a sex crime can ruin peoples lives and careers. At the very least I think that supposed criminals identies in these cases should remain hidden until there is enough evidence to bring them a trial. What do you guys think?

 

[Shanadeus]

Rapists aren't as anomalous as you think because of our current culture. People will scoff but there really is a rape culture at work.

Yes, good thing that was brought up.

I hate to generalize but seeing as these people live in the "ghetto" I must presume that they listen to "rap"-music of which many "rap-artists" contribute rape culture enabling songs to.

I'm talking about the sexism and violence-glorifying running rampant through these songs that is bound to further a strong rape culture.

 

[jon bones]

I hate to generalize but seeing as these people live in the "ghetto" I must presume that they listen to "rap"-music of which many "rap-artists" contribute rape culture enabling songs to.

i was pretty sure about it before but now i have confirmed that you are straight up dumb

(or trolling)

 

[Londa]

Why?

WHY?

Why are 13 men so desperate that they gang together to rape a little girl? I hate to say this, but can't some of them find women to consensually fuck them, even if for money? I suppose if they raped anyone older, they would be worried that person would turn them in.

We no longer live in a world where rape is an act of warfare or necessary for brutish copulation.

Why are there 13 people so fucking crazy that end up meeting up with each other?

I hate this planet. I hate this country. Fuck the planet. We deserve a meteor.

Because a woman is different than a 11 year old girl. Also people who are looking to rape someone want to do harm and are less about being desparte. Would anyone actually ask the person they love to do gang sex with 17 of their friends? No.

They are sickos looking to harm a innocent child. Its not out of desparation.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I hate to generalize but seeing as these people live in the "ghetto" I must presume that they listen to "rap"-music of which many "rap-artists" contribute rape culture enabling songs to.

I'm talking about the sexism and violence-glorifying running rampant through these songs that is bound to further a strong rape culture.

lol wat

 

[Shanadeus]

i was pretty sure about it before but now i have confirmed that you are straight up dumb

(or trolling)

Would you rather I but it this way:

Dumb ass muthafuckas keep on ranting about how women are their goddamn bitches who are only good for their phat pussy and ass. Fuck consent, you're the baddest muthafucker there is and you're not going to let the man put you down.

I'm not good at the lingo in the ghetto but I hope my point got across.

 

[eznark]

wow

 

[Londa]

Would you rather I but it this way:

Dumb ass muthafuckas keep on ranting about how women are their goddamn bitches who are only good for their phat pussy and ass. Fuck consent, you're the baddest muthafucker there is and you're not going to let the man put you down.

I'm not good at the lingo in the ghetto but I hope my point got across.

If that's the case then videogames make murders... but it doesn't so your point fails.

 

[Shanadeus]

If that's the case then videogames make murders... but it doesn't so your point fails.

Except rappers don't just express fictional ideas, they are a walking endorsement of this shit.

Ask a young gentleman in the ghetto what his dreams are and I'm sure he'll say something in the line with "whatchu talking about bitch, i wanna be a pimp master with them hoes and cash everywhere"

Heck, they have an entire TV-channel that continues to perpetuate this notion of men being massive pimp masters with an entourage of bitches and hoes ready to shake their booty at them when they wave their dollars and show them their bitch-ass rims.

With that said, not all rappers are bad rolemodels for kids. Will Smith's songs are pretty fun and have a very positive message that isn't about busting caps or hitting hoes.

 

[Steelrain]

Would you rather I but it this way:

Dumb ass muthafuckas keep on ranting about how women are their goddamn bitches who are only good for their phat pussy and ass. Fuck consent, you're the baddest muthafucker there is and you're not going to let the man put you down.

I'm not good at the lingo in the ghetto but I hope my point got across.

Except rappers don't just express fictional ideas, they are a walking endorsement of this shit.

Ask a young gentleman in the ghetto what his dreams are and I'm sure he'll say something in the line with "whatchu talking about bitch, i wanna be a pimp master with them hoes and cash everywhere"

Heck, they have an entire TV-channel that continues to perpetuate this notion of men being massive pimp masters with an entourage of bitches and hoes ready to shake their booty at them when they wave their dollars and show them their bitch-ass rims.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

I hope everyone that was involved gets what they deserve, a hard ass butt rape in prison daily for the next 5 years.

11-year old? Gang Rape? These fuckers are gonna get their front teeth knocked down their throats and their "services" traded by robbers and killers for a couple of cigarettes a piece out in "the Yard".

 

[Londa]

Except rappers don't just express fictional ideas, they are a walking endorsement of this shit.

Ask a young gentleman in the ghetto what his dreams are and I'm sure he'll say something in the line with "whatchu talking about bitch, i wanna be a pimp master with them hoes and cash everywhere"

You sound very closed minded. But not only that, you sound like you have no idea what you are talking about. Hopefully you are kidding.

This is coming from someone who doesn't even like rap. Yet I live in areas where rap is played and run into the ground. (East Coast)

Edit: lol you get all these ideas from TV. Don't believe everything you watch on tv, news at 11.

 

[SmokyDave]

If that's the case then videogames make murders... but it doesn't so your point fails.

At what point though, do we arrive at the (wrong) conclusion that external cultural stimuli have no effect on people whatsoever?

I don't think Games or Rap are to blame for anything, in isolation, but I think it's far too complicated an issue to absolve either of them completely. Advertising relies on using external stimuli to shape and change purchasing habits, surely it's possible that heavily promoting certain values and actions through other media can shape behaviour?

In that vein, though unrelated to this topic, I genuinely believe that we need to take a long, hard look at the effect that internet porn is having on people.

 

[Shanadeus]

You sound very closed minded. But not only that, you sound like you have no idea what you are talking about. Hopefully you are kidding.

This is coming from someone who doesn't even like rap. Yet I live in areas where rap is played and run into the ground. (East Coast)

So you deny that a large percentage of youths in the ghettos don't want to become pimping rich with hoes ready to shake their booty at them?

I don't even know.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

So you deny that a large percentage of youths in the ghettos don't want to become pimping rich with hoes ready to shake their booty at them?

...

 

[besada]

Except rappers don't just express fictional ideas, they are a walking endorsement of this shit.

Ask a young gentleman in the ghetto what his dreams are and I'm sure he'll say something in the line with "whatchu talking about bitch, i wanna be a pimp master with them hoes and cash everywhere"

Dude, Cleveland is a small town with less than 8000 people north of Houston. It's not "the ghetto". It's a poor little shitty Texas town like a million other poor little shitty Texas towns. It's about 50% white, 25% black, and 25% Hispanic.

You watch too much fucking TV, kid.

 

[Londa]

At what point though, do we arrive at the (wrong) conclusion that external cultural stimuli have no effect on people whatsoever?

I don't think Games or Rap are to blame for anything, in isolation, but I think it's far too complicated an issue to absolve either of them completely. Advertising relies on using external stimuli to shape and change purchasing habits, surely it's possible that heavily promoting certain values and actions through other media can shape behaviour?

In that vein, though unrelated to this topic, I genuinely believe that we need to take a long, hard look at the effect that internet porn is having on people.

There is always going to be someone who disagrees but until there is a study showing that videogame make people violent and rap makes people rape women. My point still stands.

 

[FlashFlooder]

So you deny that a large percentage of youths in the ghettos don't want to become pimping rich with hoes ready to shake their booty at them?

and "youths" in your affluent, predominantly white utopian suburb wouldn't want the same?

You sound like a racist.

 

[Londa]

So you deny that a large percentage of youths in the ghettos don't want to become pimping rich with hoes ready to shake their booty at them?

I don't even know.

Why do you think they all think the same?

Hey I have an idea! Why don't you go visit a ghetto or do research before making statements about them.

 

[Shanadeus]

and "youths" in your affluent, predominantly white utopian suburb wouldn't want the same?

You sound like a racist.

When did race enter the discussion?
And it's possible, a youth raised in a non-ghetto environment would fall for the falllings of ghetto culture perputated by mainstream media.

 

[SmokyDave]

There is always going to be someone who disagrees but until there is a study showing that videogame make people violent and rap makes people rape women. My point still stands.

I think you're looking at this in far too simplistic a manner. It's not as if someone is going to listen to a track, flick the iPod off and then immediately go out and get their rape on. It's more the cumulative effect of hearing the same pervasive messages over and over again, propagated by people considered as role-models.

Would you consider things like 'advertising' and 'propaganda' to be utterly ineffective?

Do you think it is possible that people can have their views shaped by the people around them and people they consider as 'role-models'?

I don't think we'll ever 'know' the effects of different media on different people for sure, but I think it would be foolish to dismiss the possibility out of hand. Marketing departments exist for a reason.

 

[jon bones]

Except rappers don't just express fictional ideas, they are a walking endorsement of this shit.

Ask a young gentleman in the ghetto what his dreams are and I'm sure he'll say something in the line with "whatchu talking about bitch, i wanna be a pimp master with them hoes and cash everywhere"

Heck, they have an entire TV-channel that continues to perpetuate this notion of men being massive pimp masters with an entourage of bitches and hoes ready to shake their booty at them when they wave their dollars and show them their bitch-ass rims.

With that said, not all rappers are bad rolemodels for kids. Will Smith's songs are pretty fun and have a very positive message that isn't about busting caps or hitting hoes.

child of the internet

 

[Dreams-Visions]

child of the internet

god bless them, each and every one.

 

[besada]

When did race enter the discussion?

The moment you used the word ghetto, which means an area sectioned off for a minority race. The word originally came from Venice, where Jews were forced to live in a particular part of the city. It got a big bump during WWII, where again Jews were crammed into tiny sections of land. It resurfaced in America to describe the black ghettos of the seventies, in particular (Cabrini Green, I still remember you).

If you didn't mean to discuss race, why are you using the word ghetto and using standard black dialect to make your point?

 

[TGateKeeper]

When did race enter the discussion?
And it's possible, a youth raised in a non-ghetto environment would fall for the falllings of ghetto culture perputated by mainstream media.

more whites buy rap cd's than blacks. I fail to see the point your are trying to make. why dont we have a bunch or white kids being pimps and hoes as you say? this goes deeper that rap. go read a book before you post dumb shit.

 

[tiff]

Having talked to actual, real life, impoverished black people before, I can confirm that not all of them want to be pimps and gangbangers, yes.

 

[jon bones]

go read a book before you post dumb shit.

that's all he's done. he needs to leave his computer and experience things in real life before posting dumb shit

Having talked to actual, real life, impoverished black people

what a novel concept!

 

[Shanadeus]

The moment you used the word ghetto, which means an area sectioned off for a minority race. The word originally came from Venice, where Jews were forced to live in a particular part of the city. It got a big bump during WWII, where again Jews were crammed into tiny sections of land. It resurfaced in America to describe the black ghettos of the seventies, in particular (Cabrini Green, I still remember you).

If you didn't mean to discuss race, why are you using the word ghetto and using standard black dialect to make your point?

I'm not using a standard black dialect, I'm using a "ghetto"-dialect used by both whites and blacks. I'm very aware of the historical origin of the word ghetto but I can't see it's relevance here.

Same thing to you TGkeeper, you're filling out what I'm saying with your own latent racist tendencies - I've never mentioned that it's just blacks that listen to this music.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Wow that is fucking horrible, poor girl. This is absolutely terrible and I could never contemplate just how the girl feels.

 

[jon bones]

the only thing sadder than a painfully ignorant person is one who tries to act knowledgeable