Times you have read into sexual/romantic advances incorrectly

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maybe to you, but certainly not to a lot of 19 year old guys, and the idea that there is no other way to interpret it is problematic.

sometimes I think understanding these seemingly insignificant misunderstandings could help shed light on the much more harmful and dangerous ones that happen too often between men and women.

edit: to be clear, he didn't misinterpret it as guaranteed sex, but interpreted it correctly as a (momentary) sign of interest, and by asking her out acted completely according to accepted social norms, but was then basically led to believe he'd done something slightly inappropriate. Believe me, I'm not nitpicking here for the sake of it, but because I think this may be an interesting test case for other interactions.

There is only one right interpretation in these situations the others interpretations are pointless to discuss.


I think you should be having those discussion not with the person you went out with but with friends that are better at dating then you are. I mean the post that we are specifically talking about, the dude sounds like he lost his cool a bit at the end.

If any one want dating advice I and I'm sure a few others in the thread are more then willing to dispense some in PMs or whatever.
 
Yeah, that's her and if you read the thread, you'd see that I already stated that she's a model (she was anyway - she works in NYC now). Take down her name - have some damn respect.

You're right, I took out the name. But the point stands. You're really going to post professional pics of a model and claim she was in your life? I'm not even calling you a liar, just saying that's a generally foolish thing to do on the internet. Also, if you don't want someone identified, please don't post their pictures at all. Reverse image search is just a click away.
 
I always knew that I was quite shitty reading people, then latter I discovered that I had a brain condition that unabled me to do it so. I can precieve well enough, but my brain cannot put into relation these varied imputs. Say, I can tell if a person is wearing black pants and a red t-shirt, but I would be hard pressed to define this as casual or formal attire. Or I can know that a girl is smiling at me, but I cannot quess whetever she is happy, amused or ironic about it. When people talk about "non-verbal language" it strikes me as if shuddenly everyone is able to read auras and keep talking about them as if they would be the most common thing ever.

As you can imagine, flirting for me is a riot. Extreme emotional Russian roulette, full of epic fails and funny histories. My only chance was to beat myself with failure until I developed a thick skin, which I did. I still fail miserably, but it hurts much less. I still thinking that courtship rituals are horseshit, and I don't understand why the hell people should dance around about what it could be a much more clean, efficient, less messy process: do you want to date / have sex / whatever? Good. State it then. You don't want to date? Too bad, state it clearly and I will move on. No need for shitty drama and retarded games of "guess what is in my mind". Fuck that shit. We humans make something simple into something needlessly complex, unnecessary and painful.

You are me exactly. I actually tried to explain my problems with reading people and my thoughts on the dating game to my previous coworkers that I thought I was cool with and they ended up treating me like an alien from outer space afterwards.
 
In This Thread: All of the guys talk about how they sheltered a female for the night expecting to fuck and how sour they were once they didn't. Because God forbid a girl just actually wants to be friends. Sometimes Gaf makes me sad.

I was once a friend zone guy. I hit a huge dry spell and decided that I wouldn't have any friends who were girls. Best decision I ever made. I got laid a lot and never had to deal with a girl's drama with another dude.
 
You're right, I took out the name. But the point stands. You're really going to post professional pics of a model and claim she was in your life? I'm not even calling you a liar, just saying that's a generally foolish thing to do on the internet. Also, if you don't want someone identified, please don't post their pictures at all. Reverse image search is just a click away.

Is it so hard for you to believe that someone is speaking the truth on a internet forum? I feel sorry for you that you need to check this girls background and show everyone just to prove a point.
 
I turned down sex with the girl of my dreams - the most beautiful women I've ever laid eyes on - while in bed with her because I had no idea what she meant when she said, "Are you sure you want to do this?". I just wasn't thinking clearly.

One of my life's regrets. She was absolutely the one that got away. She's a model now...I can't bare to look at her professional photos even though they're readily available on the internet. ;_;
Posted in the other thread.

If she's not going out with anyone take her out for coffee and kiss her before she leaves.

I swear if you don't do it I'll find you and slap you.

Just ask her if she wants to catch up. DO IT.
 
You're right, I took out the name. But the point stands. You're really going to post professional pics of a model and claim she was in your life? I'm not even calling you a liar, just saying that's a generally foolish thing to do on the internet. Also, if you don't want someone identified, please don't post their pictures at all. Reverse image search is just a click away.

She was a model and yeah, I did know her. We went to an art school where some of our majors included photography and fashion design, so it's only natural that she'd be discovered by would-be fashion photographers. And that's fine if you don't believe me, but it's only foolish when you're lying.

If she's not going out with anyone take her out for coffee and kiss her before she leaves.

I swear if you don't do it I'll find you and slap you.

Just ask her if she wants to catch up. DO IT.

It's been a long time and we're both in relationships. That ship sailed.
 
That's insane. She was the one sleeping in his bed. She was sending the wrong signal. She should have taken a cab home.

And as stayed before you make your move you are denied, game over. At least you didn't sleep alone that night.


Or is it to you that being nice enough to share your bed means a trade for sex no matter what?
 
I was once a friend zone guy. I hit a huge dry spell and decided that I wouldn't have any friends who were girls. Best decision I ever made. I got laid a lot and never had to deal with a girl's drama with another dude.
Stuff like this always makes me sad. But maybe you're just trolling like I was. :(
 
Friendship... Honestly, if you are asking that question you probably could use more friends.

Not true. Friendzoned means she will introduce you to all of her friends and you will be friendzoned by them too.

Most girls who have guy friends may be shocked to learn that their "guy friends" would probably drop everything to have sex with them.
 
Not true. Friendzoned means she will introduce you to all of her friends and you will be friendzoned by them too.

Most girls who have guy friends may be shocked to learn that their "guy friends" would probably drop everything to have sex with them.

You're trolling, but there are dudes that actually think this way.
 
She was a model and yeah, I did know her. We went to an art school where some of our majors included photography and fashion design, so it's only natural that she'd be discovered by would-be fashion photographers. And that's fine if you don't believe me, but it's only foolish when you're lying.



It's been a long time and we're both in relationships. That ship sailed.

I hate you and everything you stand for.

If you're still bringing this girl up it means you're not happy in your current relationship? Maybe?

We've all been there, I don't actually hate you. <3.

But seriously what the fuck, bro?
 
And as stayed before you make your move you are denied, game over. At least you didn't sleep alone that night.


Or is it to you that being nice enough to share your bed means a trade for sex no matter what?

No, it doesn't mean you trade your bed for sex no matter what but if you meet someone out and they come and sleep in your bed, it's sending the signal that they want to hook up. May or may not be sex.

Stuff like this always makes me sad. But maybe you're just trolling like I was. :(

Nope. I'm not trolling at all.

I remember the exact moment it happened. I was interested in this girl I had seen at parties. We would flirt a lot. Then one day she brought her boyfriend around.

From that moment on, I realized that I wasn't going to get a girlfriend or even hook up with a girl unless I stopped putting time into those friendships. I had gone 8 months without so much as a kiss and within a two months time, I had a girlfriend.

Since that moment, I've had like 5 or 6 girlfriends, a ton of hook-ups and eventually met my future wife.
 
No, it doesn't mean you trade your bed for sex no matter what but if you meet someone out and they come and sleep in your bed, it's sending the signal that they want to hook up. May or may not be sex.



Nope. I'm not trolling at all.

I remember the exact moment it happened. I was interested in this girl I had seen at parties. We would flirt a lot. Then one day she brought her boyfriend around.

From that moment on, I realized that I wasn't going to get a girlfriend or even hook up with a girl unless I stopped putting time into those friendships. I had gone 8 months without so much as a kiss and within a two months time, I had a girlfriend.

Since that moment, I've had like 5 or 6 girlfriends, a ton of hook-ups and eventually met my future wife.


No one is denying that but what you don't get to do is keep forcing yourself on some one.


You weren't putting time into a friendship, you were putting time into a relationship the other person didn't know was going on.
 
I've been pretty unsuccessful with women throughout my life and generally I have misread many gestures of friendship as something else. That led to several instances of "but I just wanted to be friends" awkwardness.

By the time I reached my late 20s I was pretty burnt out and very wary of even asking girls out. I met a pretty attractive girl at work and I developed a pretty big crush on her after we'd chatted a couple of times, since we had good chemistry and a lot of similar interests. However, I decided I wasn't going to get friendzoned again so I started to avoid her.

After some weeks she started to call me pretty often saying that she missed talking with me. The more I avoided her the more she tried to contact me. One day she phoned me and aske me straight away if I liked her. When I said yes, she said "good. I like you too. I was wondering when you'd ask me out. Lets go out".

She was my Girlfriend for 3 years.

You'd think that after that I would become more confident around women and I'd be better at reading them, but no. I'm as dorky as ever except now I'm 34.
 
Nope. I'm not trolling at all.

I remember the exact moment it happened. I was interested in this girl I had seen at parties. We would flirt a lot. Then one day she brought her boyfriend around.

From that moment on, I realized that I wasn't going to get a girlfriend or even hook up with a girl unless I stopped putting time into those friendships. I had gone 8 months without so much as a kiss and within a two months time, I had a girlfriend.

Since that moment, I've had like 5 or 6 girlfriends, a ton of hook-ups and eventually met my future wife.
I'm sorry you think girls are only worth knowing for sex then.
 
I hate you and everything you stand for.

If you're still bringing this girl up it means you're not happy in your current relationship? Maybe?

We've all been there, I don't actually hate you. <3.

But seriously what the fuck, bro?

...what? No, no, no. The OT asked a question about a situation we've all been in and I was giving my two cents. It's something that happened years ago, something that doesn't have me chasing the ghosts of my past (though I do think about it from time-to-time), but most importantly, it has no bearing on how happy I am in my current relationship. I'm very happy.
 
No one is denying that but what you don't get to do is keep forcing yourself on some one.

I don't buy the whole "no means no" thing. Sometimes it is completely cut and dry, it means "no, if you try to fuck with me I will have you ass in jail" but sometimes it means maybe. Human communication is weird that way and you have to pick up on subtleties.

One of the subtleties I would have missed in that scenario is the fact that sleeping in my bed doesn't mean she wants to hook up.
 
I don't buy the whole "no means no" thing. Sometimes it is completely cut and dry, it means "no, if you try to fuck with me I will have you ass in jail" but sometimes it means maybe. Human communication is weird that way and you have to pick up on subtleties.

One of the subtleties I would have missed in that scenario is the fact that sleeping in my bed doesn't mean she wants to hook up.
Oh wow.
 
I'm sorry you think girls are only worth knowing for sex then.

I don't think that way about my fiancee. Those were drastic times in my life. I was getting in fights, drinking too heavily, etc.

True story, in those eight months between hooking up with a woman, I got into every fight I've ever been in. I was so sexually frustrated that I would probably have made a pass at a wooden post.
 
I don't buy the whole "no means no" thing. Sometimes it is completely cut and dry, it means "no, if you try to fuck with me I will have you ass in jail" but sometimes it means maybe. Human communication is weird that way and you have to pick up on subtleties.

One of the subtleties I would have missed in that scenario is the fact that sleeping in my bed doesn't mean she wants to hook up.

And you aren't a troll?


I don't think that way about my fiancee. Those were drastic times in my life. I was getting in fights, drinking too heavily, etc.

True story, in those eight months between hooking up with a woman, I got into every fight I've ever been in. I was so sexually frustrated that I would probably have made a pass at a wooden post.
So sounds like it was you not the women of your past that were the problem.
 
I don't buy the whole "no means no" thing. Sometimes it is completely cut and dry, it means "no, if you try to fuck with me I will have you ass in jail" but sometimes it means maybe. Human communication is weird that way and you have to pick up on subtleties.

One of the subtleties I would have missed in that scenario is the fact that sleeping in my bed doesn't mean she wants to hook up.

Dat account suicide
 
If you say "no" and mean it, it will come off that way. If you say "no" and don't really mean it, it doesn't.

It's the same thing as asking my fiancee if anything is wrong. She will say nothing is wrong no matter what but the way she says it will tell me if something is wrong or not.

I'm not advocating ignoring what a woman says, I'm advocating hearing them through what they say.

I feel like I've gotten off on the wrong foot in this thread so I'll leave it at that.
 
There is only one right interpretation in these situations the others interpretations are pointless to discuss.


I think you should be having those discussion not with the person you went out with but with friends that are better at dating then you are. I mean the post that we are specifically talking about, the dude sounds like he lost his cool a bit at the end.

the minute you claim it's completely impossible for the woman to share even the slightest amount of responsibility for a misunderstanding, no matter how trivial, and acknowledge it accordingly, you're opening a pandora's box.

Why would he have to go consult a third party for something as basic as that? And why would you even advise bringing into the picture someone who wasn't actually there, potentially adding further noise? For every mature friend you bring in there's the equal chance you'll bring in some other guy who tells him: "girls don't know what the fuck they want" or some other nonsense.

This is a big deal because these occurrences should be where a solid foundation is laid for clear romantic communication between the sexes. The fact he was still pissed off is proof of that.

The idea should always be to remove as much noise as possible, same as in actual relationships, or else you could eventually end up with stuff like this:

I don't buy the whole "no means no" thing.
 
If you say "no" and mean it, it will come off that way. If you say "no" and don't really mean it, it doesn't.

It's the same thing as asking my fiancee if anything is wrong. She will say nothing is wrong no matter what but the way she says it will tell me if something is wrong or not.

I'm not advocating ignoring what a woman says, I'm advocating hearing them through what they say.

I feel like I've gotten off on the wrong foot in this thread so I'll leave it at that.


Is this a real fiancée or did you hear yes through the no?


the minute you claim it's completely impossible for the woman to share even the slightest amount of responsibility for a misunderstanding, no matter how trivial, and acknowledge it accordingly, you're opening a pandora's box.

Why would he have to go consult a third party for something as basic as that? And why would you even advise bringing into the picture someone who wasn't actually there, potentially adding further noise? For every mature friend you bring in there's the equal chance you'll bring in some other guy who tells him: "girls don't know what the fuck they want" or some other nonsense.

This is a big deal because these occurrences should be where a solid foundation is laid for clear romantic communication between the sexes. The fact he was still pissed off is proof of that.

The idea should always be to remove as much noise as possible, same as in actual relationships, or else you could eventually end up with stuff like this:
It's a two way street and I feel dudes let what they want to start as a romantic relationship start of a friendly footing and then get upset that's how the girl interpreted it. If you
Want to go on a date you say hey let's go out on a date. Not let's hang out or the other bullshit people say. Calling it a date clears up any misconceptions and you can't drag it out either its a thing that you decide right on the spot cuz if you drag it out and some one just sees you as a friend the none well adjusted get angry even though its them that have been hair noting built up romantic feelings.
 
Recently thought a girl who had a boyfriend wanted cheat on him with me but its become apparent this is not the case.

Whoops.
 
It's a two way street and I feel dudes let what they want to start as a romantic relationship start of a friendly footing and then get upset that's how the girl interpreted it. If you
Want to go on a date you say hey let's go out on a date. Not let's hang out or the other bullshit people say. Calling it a date clears up any misconceptions and you can't drag it out either its a thing that you decide right on the spot cuz if you drag it out and some one just sees you as a friend the none well adjusted get angry even though its them that have been hair noting built up romantic feelings.

Nonsense. There's nothing wrong with "hanging out" and figuring out how you feel in the process. You have to spend time with another person in order to decide what kind of relationship you want to have with them, if any.

Every encounter between members of the opposite sex at that age can bring with it some degree of romantic tension, and this is perfectly healthy and normal.
By creating artificial definitions you're just avoiding dealing with the actual problem, which is proper communication. Calling it a "date" doesn't make the girl any more obligated to pursue the relationship further, just as asking her out if you had a good time isn't inappropriate and should not be treated as such.
 
Nonsense. There's nothing wrong with "hanging out" and figuring out how you feel in the process. You have to spend time with another person in order to decide what kind of relationship you want to have with them, if any.

.

This is what dating is for. You call them dates because it lets people know what the end game is.
 
...what? No, no, no. The OT asked a question about a situation we've all been in and I was giving my two cents. It's something that happened years ago, something that doesn't have me chasing the ghosts of my past (though I do think about it from time-to-time), but most importantly, it has no bearing on how happy I am in my current relationship. I'm very happy.

Ok good. :)

Sorry I misinterpreted.
 
That's a very rigid opinion coming from someone who previously emphasized feelings can change over the course of an evening..

I don't see how this contradicts anything I've said. It's a lot less stressful when going out with a person you are attracted to, if they say yes for a date it means they are willing to give you a chance at least.
 
I think I do it all the time. I just don't pay attention anymore. I sure as hell did as a minor.

Last time I remember was one of the best experiences I had ever had. And it was a woman who was a bit older than me. She asked me to her house and I thought she wasn't interested at all. Then she says something on the lines of "You think you could help me out with something?" I was young, she was older, I have no regrets about that whole thing.
 
back when i was working at a SNF, new girl landed the job as the receptionist. Turns out she was the daughter of a coworker of mine. Anyhoo, her mom introduced her to me when she called me into her office. Right off the bat I got a crush on her. Her humor matched mine so well. So as I'm leaving for the day, I stopped by the front to chat her up a bit. Was gonna ask for her number but decided not to.
Next day, I randomly ran into her and her friend at Starbucks. She called me over and asked me to stay and chat it up with them. I asked for her number but then she told me to give her my number. Surprisingly she texted me like 30 minutes after we parted.
Over time, we grew closer to where she text/called me all the time. At this time she was dating some douche canoe and I was hoping to kind of steal her away. If I didn't talk to her for a few days she would tell me she missed me and whatnot. We hung out quite a bit. Took her to a concert. She opened me up to a new genre of music..yada yada yada.
But then...every time I brought up why couldn't we date, she would tell me she's dating the douchebag. I was left scratching my head after that one. I really felt like it was going somewhere. God damn did i get that so wrong lol
 
Haha...I know man. She was just so pretty.

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:(

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So... I was 15, no experience with girls whatsoever, staying with my aunty and uncle for a week during school holidays. Friends of the family were staying there as well, with their beautiful 16 year old daughter.

A whole week was spent with tension slowly building. She was clearly much more experienced than me, and knew exactly what she wanted (me) but I was too oblivious to realize. We went to the movies together... she turns to me, looks me right in the eyes and says "I really like you, you know". I couldn't hear what she said, so I just sort of nodded and turned back to the movie instead of saying "what?".

She left the next day, but not before telling her parents/my aunty and uncle/my parents that she was really into me and told me in the movies. I found out the next day, but it was too late and I never saw her again. Derp!
 
I was once a friend zone guy. I hit a huge dry spell and decided that I wouldn't have any friends who were girls. Best decision I ever made. I got laid a lot and never had to deal with a girl's drama with another dude.

Yeah, its not a bad idea. lol. I don't mind being friends with girls but turned out I had no idea just what an emotional crutch they were using me to be. I didn't have ideas of romance, but I do expect friends to act like...you know friends. So anytime they got with a guy, I would stop hearing from them unless they were fighting or had broken up (and with young folk, they break up and get back together all the time). So I said fuck it, I'll just stop talking to them.
 
Yeah, its not a bad idea. lol. I don't mind being friends with girls but turned out I had no idea just what an emotional crutch they were using me to be. I didn't have ideas of romance, but I do expect friends to act like...you know friends. So anytime they got with a guy, I would stop hearing from them unless they were fighting or had broken up (and with young folk, they break up and get back together all the time). So I said fuck it, I'll just stop talking to them.

Yeah, I kinda did the same a few years ago.

I still have my best girl friends from before I said it, but I promised to myself I'd never start that kind of relationship again.
 
Yeah, I kinda did the same a few years ago.

I still have my best girl friends from before I said it, but I promised to myself I'd never start that kind of relationship again.

I only really miss one of them. She loved showing me her boobs. God they were so perfect lol.
 
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