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[SystemBug]

It's not so much that you need to pay for what other men have done but that you need to:

1. Acknowledge your privilege
2. Acknowledge that it has helped you at the expense of women regardless of whether you chose for that happen or not
3. Acknowledge that because you've been advantaged at the expense of women, you have the responsibility to correct this wrongdoing. It's up to you on how to do that – speaking out on the injustice and correcting other men when they're spouting vile shit is a quick and easy way to help. Pretending men are not in a position of privilege or other MRA wankery is a good example of how to make things worse.

I do think privilege has many levels to it - be it racial or even economic. I have been passed over work due to my skin color to white men and women.

 

[Not]

Cindi, I very much agree with everything in your post, but here's the thing I don't agree on:
You and I see Tinder as what it is, a fast-fuck-app. I know some itt have found true and everlasting love through Tinder ;P But you to a minor and especially Subpar to an exaggerated degree make it sound like this whole "shorter guys being rejected on Tinder" topic will work for women like some kind of late retribution. I don't remotely see this. At best some heavy selection will take place on Tinder where all the tall guys swim in a huge pool of women. How is giving a blow to a short guy helping you as woman with tall guys acting like assholes? What I'm trying to say, if women really want to become the better human beings, they really shouldn't do it the man's way.

Why not? Why aren't women allowed to do everything men have been allowed to do? Why are we holding them to this impossible standard just so men don't "feel bad?"

 

[Principate]

I feel like you're looking for a solution to this dilemma from Cindi and the hard truth is, she has already given some good advice but you're still hounding her for answers. Sometimes YOU have to find the answers for yourself. Sometimes the best solution to a problem is the one you make for yourself.

This feels a bit disingenious, you can only definitely solve problems about yourself global problems are several magnitudes and that assumes "you" have the solution to a problem which indivduallly they might not but with help from others they may be able to have some lasting affect. It's not an easy or new problem, and it's something most people would be aware of if they thought about it. As with many issues the biggest hurdles are apathy and unwillingness to change.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Ive been told I have "that look" to me by girls on Tinder. But they were glad they met me because I'm not one of "those guys"

Whatever that means.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Ive been told I have "that look" to me by girls on Tinder. But they were glad they met me because I'm not one of "those guys"

Whatever that means.

Those guys are only about that thing, that thing, that thing.

 

[Not]

Tinder sucks now in NYC. We've moved on to Bumble. I barley use tinder now. Too many bots and too much left swiping that my thumb is cramped.

I hear Bumble is awesome

 

[Kevyt]

All this talk about height... xD

I'm 5'6 xD

 

[FallingEdge]

lol @ doods feeling inadequate if someone were to post pictures of other guys

do something about your dumpy ass, hit the gym and bring something to the table instead of complaing

 

[Arrowgigantic]

I have this pic on my tinder profile.

I would too but I wouldn't want to disappoint girls who want to see the party trick.

 

[JadedWriter]

Why are you taking this personally

Probably cause I've been treated like crap by every woman I've ever liked and when I do get a first date they're probably weirded out by my "Hands off" first date practices.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Those guys are only about that thing, that thing, that thing.

Ahhh I figured as much. Im still about that thing but its not all im about.

 

[ishibear]

Cindi, I very much agree with everything in your post, but here's the thing I don't agree on:
You and I see Tinder as what it is, a fast-fuck-app. I know some itt have found true and everlasting love through Tinder ;P But you to a minor and especially Subpar to an exaggerated degree make it sound like this whole "shorter guys being rejected on Tinder" topic will work for women like some kind of late retribution. I don't remotely see this. At best some heavy selection will take place on Tinder where all the tall guys swim in a huge pool of women. How is giving a blow to a short guy helping you as woman with tall guys acting like assholes? What I'm trying to say, if women really want to become the better human beings, they really shouldn't do it the man's way.

That's not what she's saying. She's providing perspective for something women have dealt with for ages in the hopes someone will see it and go "wow I never thought of it that way".

Men feeling down about their height is terrible and no one should feel lesser because of something they can't control. But how many times will you see men say "sharp knees wouldn't bang" or "I'm not attracted to X for these reasons"? They go hand in hand here. Women saying they prefer tall/handsome/etc characteristics on a man is the same as men saying the quotes above. We can call it picky, mean, rude etc but if that's what someone prefers, that's all there is to it.

That's not incentive for shorter/average/etc men to feel like shit, that's incentive to understand what it's like to have your appearance be the end all be all. You can either A, try to change things about yourself or B, accept that you aren't someone's type and move on.

That's what women have been doing. Now, I'm sorry guys but this is becoming a mutual demand. Don't get disheartened. Learn to accept you aren't perfect and move on or try to make yourself appealing somehow and give it a shot.

 

[Not]

All this talk about height... xD

I'm 5'6 xD

So is Tom Cruise. He's beautiful on the inside tho

 

[Markoman]

Why not? Why aren't women allowed to do everything men have been allowed to do? Why are we holding them to this impossible standard just so men don't "feel bad?"

See my last sentence. I think the days of an eye for an eye are long gone, don't you think?

So is Tom Cruise. He's beautiful on the inside tho

Thanks Not, now I have to clean my keyboard from juice.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I already know all men aren't the same. But men generally act like assholes so it's smart to assume all men are the same unless proven otherwise. Especially when dating. This is important because men will and can kill you. Before going on dates, mothers teach their daughters protocol for safety for a reason. My friends and I, when we're on first, second, third dates and trust is being garnered have a protocol where we send a simple text saying we're okay at 11 pm. We have a rule that if you don't call or text by 12 am while on the date, something is up, and to call the police. We take zero chances. One time it has ended with a girl and dude being found kissing and they were having so much fun she forgot to send a follow up message, but better safe than sorry. The 12 am call, we have a password. Say you're calling your mom and she, or I, depending on who's not on the date will ask,"are you coming to church tomorrow?" Yes means you're having a fine time and feel safe. No means to bail the fuck out because the dude seems sketchy. So on a first date, I never have a man come pick me up so he knows where I live. I never go to his place on the first date either because I'm not stupid. We will meet at that location and it won't be a location I regular go either, because I don't have shit where I eat. Trust is meant to be built. Trust is earned.

Those are the type of safety protocols we use every day for mere survival in a man's world. Are all men the same? No. But you'd be dumb to not assume every random man you just met doesn't have at least the same basic, primal intentions.

 

[Not]

Probably cause I've been treated like crap by every woman I've ever liked and when I do get a first date they're probably weirded out by my "Hands off" first date practices.

Might help to view women as human beings like you just trying to find love and making the same mistakes you are, rather than lumping all individual women into one category.

See my last sentence. I think the days of an eye for an eye are long gone, don't you think?

Not really, but I lean more radical in my feminism than many. The fact is, women are still being honor-killed and not elected President and getting assaulted and hit on and threatened and catcalled and shamed. You have to really understand where they're coming from in order to want to make a difference, and that's hard for men without those experiences to understand.

 

[Principate]

So is Tom Cruise. He's beautiful on the inside tho

Tom Cruise is crazy though.

 

[Prophet Steve]

lol @ doods feeling inadequate if someone were to post pictures of other guys

do something about your dumpy ass, hit the gym and bring something to the table instead of complaing

I'm not sure if it is inadequacy, it is not expecting and not being used to provoking imagery of men. Many are completely used to have images of half naked women anywhere but get uncomfortable if they are replaced by men because they aren't attracted to that.

 

[JadedWriter]

So is Tom Cruise. He's beautiful on the inside tho

Is that code for "He's rich as fuck?"

Might help to view women as human beings like you just trying to find love and making the same mistakes you are, rather than lumping all individual women into one category.

What is it about my post makes it seem like I don't view women as human beings?

 

[lightskintwin]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I don't' feel like nothing has changed that much between the different power dynamics between men and women in the dating game; including online apps.

 

[LionPride]

Probably cause I've been treated like crap by every woman I've ever liked and when I do get a first date they're probably weirded out by my "Hands off" first date practices.

What that got to do with her post

 

[Pusherman]

I feel like you're looking for a solution to this dilemma from Cindi and the hard truth is, she has already given some good advice but you're still hounding her for answers. Sometimes YOU have to find the answers for yourself. Sometimes the best solution to a problem is the one you make for yourself.

Oh I'm not looking for any solutions or dating advice. I've never even used tinder or other dating websites/apps. I just meant that I think people can be a little dismissive whenever guys complain about anything related to dating and I think that's unnecessary. Ultimately no one can help someone do better at dating, it's all about what you do yourself but that doesn't mean complaining and having people be understanding doesn't feel good occasionally.

 

[ascii42]

I hear Bumble is awesome

Yeah. Bumble seems good for both parties. Women don't get harassed by 1000 guys. And I get to not make the first move. Sadly the one match I've had so far didn't message. I probably need better pictures/profile.

 

[Silent Chief]

Most women like guys that are taller than they are, but there's a lot of short women out there too.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Probably cause I've been treated like crap by every woman I've ever liked and when I do get a first date they're probably weirded out by my "Hands off" first date practices.

There is no conspiracy of all women vs. you though. Women can go through the exact same swaths of men who treat them like crap. All that is is literal luck of the draw and what both parties are expecting from the interaction. Yet women are socially the ones expected to be "just a little nicer" when they should have the opportunity to act and expect whatever they'd like out of a date just like males. If you have certain behaviors or expectations on a first date then lay that on the table and you'll get partners who gel with it. Pure and simple.

 

[Reishiki]

But men generally act like assholes so it's smart to assume all men are the same unless proven otherwise.

Yeah, definitely can't relate.

 

[UrokeJoe]

I've always enjoyed sex with women of similar height to me. Everything matches up well and you can roll around in sync effortlessly while keeping eye contact.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Ahhh I figured as much. Im still about that thing but its not all im about.

Some girls are only about that thing, that thing, that thing, too

 

[Principate]

I already know all men aren't the same. But men generally act like assholes so it's smart to assume all men are the same unless proven otherwise. Especially when dating. This is important because men will and can kill you. Before going on dates, mothers teach their daughters protocol for safety for a reason. My friends and I, when we're on first, second, third dates and trust is being garnered have a protocol where we send a simple text saying we're okay at 11 pm. We have a rule that if you don't call or text by 12 am while on the date, something is up, and to call the police. We take zero chances. One time it has ended with a girl and dude being found kissing and they were having so much fun she forgot to send a follow up message, but better safe than sorry. The 12 am call, we have a password. Say you're calling your mom and she, or I, depending on who's not on the date will ask,"are you coming to church tomorrow?" Yes means you're having a fine time and feel safe. No means to bail the fuck out because the dude seems sketchy. So on a first date, I never have a man come pick me up so he knows where I live. I never go to his place on the first date either because I'm not stupid. Trust is meant to be built. Trust is earned.

Those are the type of safety protocols we use every day for mere survival in a man's world. Are all men the same? No. But you'd be dumb to not assume every random man you just met doesn't have at least the same basic, primal intentions.

? Yeah this where we differ, you could swap men with black people, and you end up at a random racists reasoning complete with one of the good ones. Which is why I can never subscribe to that thinking regardless of the context. Doesn't describe all the shit the vast majority of men have done if you take the humanity as a whole has done. Which is significant and abhorent, but I don't think I'll ever be comfortable with that sort of generalisation in regards to things you can't control.

 

[lightskintwin]

There is no conspiracy of all women vs. you though. Women can go through the exact same swaths of men who treat them like crap. All that is is literal luck of the draw and what both parties are expecting from the interaction. Yet women are socially the ones expected to be "just a little nicer" when they should have the opportunity to act and expect whatever they'd like out of a date just like males.

It is definitely not just luck.

I've always enjoyed sex with women of similar height to me. Everything matches up well and you can roll around in sync effortlessly while keeping eye contact.

My man. Too bad I'm tall enough where it so rarely happens.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Some girls are only about that thing, that thing, that thing, too

I was expecting that most would going on Tinder but then 90% of the profiles I see say "No hookups"

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Yeah, definitely can't relate.

You're 6'2, though. Most men aren't 6'2. You intimidate them. Most men aren't going to try it. Your height probably acts as an asshole filter.

 

[kinggroin]

This thread makes me appreciate, that I'm a married man.

 

[JadedWriter]

There is no conspiracy of all women vs. you though. Women can go through the exact same swaths of men who treat them like crap. All that is is literal luck of the draw and what both parties are expecting from the interaction. Yet women are socially the ones expected to be "just a little nicer" when they should have the opportunity to act and expect whatever they'd like out of a date just like males. If you have certain behaviors or expectations on a first date then lay that on the table and you'll get partners who gel with it. Pure and simple.

I will admit that I have the weirdest taste in women and probably shouldn't even really be responsible for picking whom I like. I wouldn't mind being set up, but everybody I know knows nobody single so I just continue blundering across a rather unenjoyable dating life.

 

[Not]

Is that code for "He's rich as fuck?"

Might be helpful not to get into that mindset where the only reason another human being, especially a woman, can get with an unattractive person is for their money. It's false and leads to unfounded resentment.

What is it about my post makes it seem like I don't view women as human beings?

You responded:

Probably cause I've been treated like crap by every woman I've ever liked

...when asked why you were taking Cindi's post personally. She hasn't treated you like crap the way those women have. Why are you feeling attacked? Every woman is different, just like every man.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Does anyone ever use the super like?

 

[ishibear]

? Yeah this where we differ, you could swap men with black people, and you end up at a random racists reasoning complete with one of the good ones. Which is why I can never subscribe to that thinking regardless of the context. Doesn't describe all the shit the vast majority of men have done if you take the humanity as a whole has done. Which is significant and abhorent, but I don't think I'll ever be comfortable with that sort of generalisation in regards to things you can't control.

You could also swap it with racists (or begrudgingly white people) and the point would be relatively the same. I don't know why black people has to be the go to for comparison all the damn time.

Swapping either of these examples feels distasteful and distracting for me. Can we stop it?

 

[Huff]

Does anyone ever use the super like?

No. Seems desperate

 

[lightskintwin]

You could also swap it with racists and the point would be relatively the same. I don't know why black people has to be the go to for comparison all the damn time.

Everybody want a part of that struggle when it conveniently helps them.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

No. Seems desperate

Fuck

 

[Makai]

Does anyone ever use the super like?

I usually swipe right everyone who super likes me.

 

[SystemBug]

Does anyone ever use the super like?

I remember the first day (and my last day) of using Tinder resulted in me hitting that button accidentaly all the time. I felt so embarrassed 😅

But man judging people based on looks just felt sick & disgusting to me so I just deleted the app.

 

[Principate]

You could also swap it with racists and the point would be relatively the same. I don't know why black people has to be the go to for comparison all the damn time.

Yeah why do black people go to these comparison all the damn time, maybe because they personally effected by people that use that line thinking and would would not to have other people continue it. But those damn black people using those same arguements all the time!

Maybe just maybe it's not good to be prejudice against someone and assume they are fundamentally bad before changing your opinion. That's where that term comes from.

 

[ishibear]

Everybody want a part of that struggle when it conveniently helps them.

Ikr. Y'all have no idea how hurtful that shit is. It would be one thing if we were in a better position now but dammit black folks are still struggling. Stop the damn comparisons.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I was expecting that most would going on Tinder but then 90% of the profiles I see say "No hookups"

I'm just quoting a song at you and I can't think/too lazy to look up the rest of the lyrics, though. Good luck on Tinder!

 

[Markoman]

I've always enjoyed sex with women of similar height to me. Everything matches up well and you can roll around in sync effortlessly while keeping eye contact.

U know what' up. Totally agree and don't even care if they tower me in hh. The pro overweighs.

 

[Not]

Oh I'm not looking for any solutions or dating advice. I've never even used tinder or other dating websites/apps. I just meant that I think people can be a little dismissive whenever guys complain about anything related to dating and I think that's unnecessary. Ultimately no one can help someone do better at dating, it's all about what you do yourself but that doesn't mean complaining and having people be understanding doesn't feel good occasionally.

The urge to defend men's self esteem over women's, to summarize my take on this whole thread, seems unnecessary to me when the rest of society contributes so much towards men's confidence without them even realizing.

 

[Koodo]

I do think privilege has many levels to it - be it racial or even economic. I have been passed over work due to my skin color to white men and women.

It does, which is intersectionality. White people – both men and women – need to acknowledge their privilege in comparison to people of colour. Even within minorities, intersectionality works in a way that specific subsets need to acknowledge their privilege over others (black men v. black women, white queer v. poc queer, etc). It's important to acknowledge the ways you are in a position of power and the ways you are in a position of discrimination because this helps to sympathize with the plight of others and ultimately work towards progress.

But this is a tangent right now in the topic of dating between opposite genders though.

 

[The Kree]

? Yeah this where we differ, you could swap men with black people, and you end up at a random racists reasoning complete with one of the good ones. Which is why I can never subscribe to that thinking regardless of the context. Doesn't describe all the shit the vast majority of men have done if you take the humanity as a whole has done. Which is significant and abhorent, but I don't think I'll ever be comfortable with that sort of generalisation in regards to things you can't control.

Black people have been historically oppressed. Any attempts at rationalization of racist attitudes is born from that oppression. Men historically have not had a comparable experience at the hands of women. That's why you can't just swap in the word 'black'.

 

[ishibear]

Yeah why do black people go to these comparison all the damn time, maybe because they personally effected by people that use that line thinking and would would not to have other people continue it. But those damn black people using those same arguements all the time!

What's your problem