Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
That small decline during 2011-2012 was the bulk of the War Arc. The drop stopped once more interesting battles like Naruto vs. Jinchuriki, Naruto vs. Tobi, Madara/Obito vs. everyone, etc., started.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Tite Kubo's Bleach Manga Nears Ending
- Thread starter HypnoDarkrai
- Start date
- Status
That small decline during 2011-2012 was the bulk of the War Arc. The drop stopped once more interesting battles like Naruto vs. Jinchuriki, Naruto vs. Tobi, Madara/Obito vs. everyone, etc., started.
CadetMahoney
Member
Whatever it was, people probably realized it's not going to get better and bailed out before it got embarrassing.
"I kept reading for 10 years".
Urban Scholar
Member
Bruh manga artists get 3-4 to themselves a week and sleep 4-5 hours a day?
Jesus I knew it was tough but yikes. This was really insightful into it's fall, thank you.
I didn't know the relationship with the editors was so toxic. I also didn't know they had so much sway.
I really hope Tite Kubo gets to do something that allows him freedom and now BS.
DryEyeRelief
Member
War arc is bleach tier
bloodyroarxx
Member
Ok I tried to watch that video from the last page and man that dude A) isn't a very good narrator B) seems to be imposing alot of his opinions on it as fact.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
War arc litterally resurrected everyone and their mother's for one fansrvice fest hurrah and was exactly as awful as Jr sounds, the only part I actually enjoyed was Hsu vs madara.
Wow. I remember way back during gym period, my friends and I would clamor about the latest Bleach chapter. We definitely thought it'd be better than Naruto. I don't think we ever expected it to turn out this way; almost kills my early manga reading days.
And the anime had some pretty great scenes and music.
It was a hype as fuck zombie war.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Haven't ever watched or read Bleach myself, but based on stuff that video was saying about Kubo doing character intros, new visually interesting characters, etc. really well, it honestly sounds like he would have a much better time constantly making new, shorter series.
IIRC bleach was suppoused to end after rukia got saved, so... yeah.
Or just a character designer, like seriously JRPG companies need to hire him, the man knows how to draw visual interesting contemporary characters
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Remember when Yhwach designated Uryu as his successor because Uryu had some mysterious power that made him immune to the Auswahlen?
And then that was never elaborated on? I wonder where that was supposed to lead before Uryu was just given a deus ex machina arrow instead.
Eh, I think it's hard to find much fault in these because they were all pretty clearly background characters of little consequence. It's not like they had loose, unresolved plot threads or like they were wasted potential in the way that the Vizards were.
And then that was never elaborated on? I wonder where that was supposed to lead before Uryu was just given a deus ex machina arrow instead.
Eh, I think it's hard to find much fault in these because they were all pretty clearly background characters of little consequence. It's not like they had loose, unresolved plot threads or like they were wasted potential in the way that the Vizards were.
TropicalFish
Member
Septimus Prime
Member
That's actually probably the most consistent thing, though, since from the very beginning Ichigo was setup as really strong but without proper control for his power (hence his huge zanpakuto). Getsuga Tensho is just an outlet for that power, and he wins by pure brute strength every time.
SporeCrawler
Member
really interesting thank you
yes its tough. but if you think about it its incredbile how much they shape the cultural landscape of japan.
take dragonball. that manga still is a cultural factor in japan like decades after it was concluded (and with the manga completely being shit after the cell arc). take one piece, naruto, yes even bleach. those mangas spun off million dollar merchandise industries on their own (in particular one piece) starting with anime, related games, related figurines, plush toys etc.
i dont think there is any other creative business that can effect so many people with so little resources (what you need is basically pen and paper)
Copying from other thread:
Man, watching that video really bummed me out. I used to LOVE Bleach. I still remember randomly buying the first volume from a Borders bookstore in 2005 and later being enamored when ai discovered I could watch the show on YouTube. That Soul Society Rescue Arc was the hypest shit in the world to me at the time - still remember the UVERworld theme song they used for the opening like it was yesterday.
When Ichigo finally shows up in his bankai to rescue Rukia from execution and faces off with Byakuga - it was BADASS. But then, both the manga & anime's quality took a severe dip over time and I was finally bored & tired of Bleach once the Fullbringer Arc ended and the anime was cancelled.
I agree with everything in the video - it's a shame this series never reached its full potential. Instead of trying to introduce so many new useless characters, I wish Ichigo's core group of Chad, Ishida, Orihime, Rukia, Renji, Yoruichi & Tatsuki would've been developed much deeper. They should've been the badasses of the series with unique powers, rather than fodder a lot of the time.
Urban Scholar
Member
And super human will, fortitude, & vision to see your story through.
Its always bugged me that Kensei moves so much faster than the other Visored during that shot.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
jesus
If this is SJ table rankings then this is a pointless graph. Sales are more telling on popularity.
Because ultimately the fans still cared for these characters and their story. If anything Naruto's ending caused it to actually increase in popularity and was a ripe time for Kishi to start a part 3 but he wanted it to conclude.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
This graph would still be largely the same either way though One Piece would have always been top if it was sales.
The Graph is the most relevant because its how Shueisha judge which title to cut, there's plenty of example Shueisha cutting title despite strong sales. Even tho you want try moving goal post with that argument its pretty darn embarassing anyway title with past stature like Bleach perform that poorly on the poll.
Fbh
Member
I ignored One Piece for the longest time because of this exact same reason. But honestly, after 100 chapters or so you just kinda get used to it.
It also helps that Oda's style uses smaller panels which might not look great visually but at least helps with the pacing so it feels like stuff actually happens in most chapters unlike Bleach (Kubo is the king of wasting entire chapters on two characters crossing swords once and exchanging maby 2 lines of dialog).
Though to be fair I also think One Piece is starting to dragg. IMO it hasn't been very good since the
time skip
Well the war dragged for sure but at least it was building up some encounters and characters that they had been hyping up for years.
Madara and the sage of the six paths and Obito vs Kakashi
Unlike Bleach which was like here are a bunch of new characters and you can see the cast fight them in a bunch of boring and underwhelming battles.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
It wouldn't. Draw a average volume sales graph per year.
Shueisha look at editorial rankings rather than money generated.....highly doubt it. I lost all respect to editorial rankings when Oda revealed it ultimately relied on the editors feelings. Marketing, agendas etc can all come in to play so there's no point trying to act its a definitive representation of popularity, especially when we have clear sales data.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
In terms of manga sales rankings yeah it would, in terms of volume sales there would be more fluations but One Piece clear top Naruto second or there abouts and with Bleach 3 and droping but not as significantally
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Individual volume sales is what I'm talking about. That is what shows the fanbase's support for each arc.
You would see One Piece shoot up but also notably decline. You would see Naruto grow and remain largely consistent. You would see Bleach grow and then drop sharply.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
I always believed that even tho Kubo has gotten "better" at drawing there was some personality lost with his artwork. From the world to the characters one has to wonder where the personality is?
tauroxd
Member
I was exactly like you... I dispised that horrible art... But then one day I tried and... Oh, man, it's been too much since I read and I don't know what my life would be without the awesomeness of One Piece.
And the video was good, I agree with that, I instantly feel in love with Bleach adn I still love it, really, even though all it's faults.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
One Pieces sales haven't really be in much of decline they're essentially back to pre war arc levels in not a reasonable bit higher (which was an extremely major event in the story leading to a timeskip). They're not selling 3.5 million per volume (highest volume sales of a manga or a comic) but back to the standard to 2.8-3 levels, which is still a million more than the nearest competitor (the other two highest also have a larger year on year drop). Most probably increase again when an actual major event occurs, e.g a direct clash with the yonko
Aaronrules380
Member
Yeah, the hype around Marineford and more importantly, Strong World, led to an oversaturation of One Piece in Japan. Those levels were never going to be sustainable
MrSaturn99
Member
Looking back, yeah. It got far too bloated and introduced some of Kubo's worst habits.
Funny enough, the fact that it was a zombie war was what made it boring to me in the first place.
I was pretty bored from the beginning since the war even happening was dumb to begin with, but then it became a mess of battles I had no emotional investment in. I honestly couldn't tell you what happened in 95% of battles other than who won and lost.
With battles in earlier arcs I can recall strategies, counter attacks, movesets, powerups, dialogue. The war arc? No clue other than a few fights toward the end and even thats murky.
One Piece got off to a really bad start with Fishman Island but has gotten better each arc since. I feel One Piece has been at its best since Sabaody once everyone arrived on Zou.
I suppose so, though I still thought it odd to introduce minor soul reapers, some complete with title cards, when they are around for all of maybe three pages at most, never to return.
UnemployedVillain
Member
If you know so much produce the graph and show us
SchrodingerC
Member
Truly the greatest injustice, alongside the Royal Guard.
My faves. T-T
What happened to the Royal Guard again? Did they all die? The Quincy arc is pretty much a boring blur, besides Isshin's mini story. An OVA of Isshin's story would be neat.
Incorrect.
Part of the reason Bleach was allowed to wallow in its final arc for so long is because Bleach still sold hundreds of thousands per manga volume. If your sales are that high, it doesn't really matter how poorly you rank in the magazine.
The ranking is do-or-die for freshly started manga, and for manga that have been serialized for a time but are still doing middling sales numbers. Once you have cleared that bar, the ranking matters significantly less. There's also manga with special circumstances that are allowed to rank whatever or have a selected rank.
There are not "plenty of examples" of WSJ editorial cutting a title despite strong sales. There are plenty of examples of WSJ cutting a title because of weak sales.
SoulUnison
Banned
I really like Naruto, but they brought back a bunch of characters, didn't use a bunch of the characters that were brought back, and totally wasted the ones that were. The Seven Swordsmen were off-screened, right after a bunch of build-up and Kakashi announcing he was finally going to "go wild" and show off some of his 1000 Jutsu.
Nemesis121
Member
Kubo your manga could be running now if your writing didn't fall apart, hopefully he learns a lesson from this, the next manga, he needs to plan it out from beginning to end, and instead of a 15 year run, do something for 5 years..
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Why don't you do a few quick google searches and find the data yourself. Its all public and easy to find.
jesus
One Piece is just next level. Dressrosa arc was the weakest but it was still better than Bleach.
Uchiha Madara was boss as fuck
I guess people cared enough to just keep following it till it ended.
I did like Madara. Everything past his introduction is boring as fuck though.
How you feel about him getting the shaft by Kaguya.
Lame as hell. Kaguya has like negative charisma compared to him.
Naruto war arc was pretty weak, imo. The only thing I really liked about it was Obito.
It's a shame what happened to Bleach. I really enjoyed the series through the Soul Society arc but gave it up for a few years once they got to Hueco Mundo. Picked it back up for a bit during the Fullbringer arc just because it took less then 5 min to go through the weekly chapters.
I usually feel more bittersweet when a series I've invested so long in ends, but it's more heartbreaking this time around; this coming from a guy who's been giving Bleach shit for years. Hopefully Kubo's next work will allow him to show that potential from the early days.
It's a shame what happened to Bleach. I really enjoyed the series through the Soul Society arc but gave it up for a few years once they got to Hueco Mundo. Picked it back up for a bit during the Fullbringer arc just because it took less then 5 min to go through the weekly chapters.
I usually feel more bittersweet when a series I've invested so long in ends, but it's more heartbreaking this time around; this coming from a guy who's been giving Bleach shit for years. Hopefully Kubo's next work will allow him to show that potential from the early days.
The Silver
Member
woah hold on, shirtless blind Madara taking on the whole alliance plus tailed beasts was the most badass part of the war
Theresa getting that runback was godlike. Loved the ending to Claymore.
Madara getting his shit pushed in by 8 Gates Guy was the most badass part of the war.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
Naruto vs. Jinchuriki and Obito vs. Naruto/Killer Bee/Kakashi/Guy justifies the War Arc, IMO.
The latter was well-paced, well choreographed, and reminded me of Part 1 fights with the tactics and trickery at play.
The latter was well-paced, well choreographed, and reminded me of Part 1 fights with the tactics and trickery at play.
- Status