TLOU Remastered: 30 fps option gives better shadow quality [Up: Comparison GIF in OP]

Zakalwe said:
Sure, if you stand still or move slow.
During faster gameplay parts though, you simply can't see all that extra detail with 30fps.

This why I don't understand the 30fps + better visuals argument, half the time you won't get to appreciate those extra visuals because you don't have enough frames to make out the details. And as many devs lather on the motion blur to help smooth it out, it makes it even worse some times.
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Unless they are blurring all the frames, lateral camera transitions still allow you to take in detail perfectly well. Running forwards / backwards and circle strafing shit certainly does. Even in a game like Vanquish, where it's all about speed and fast movement, there is no major problem taking in the detail despite its 30hz refresh rate. I'm not clear on how I'm supposed to be taking in details when they're apparently on screen for less than 33miliseconds anyway, it seems like it's going to be extremely fleeting. In fact I think you're basically talking nonsense with this comment. Like you literally are unable to appreciate graphics properly in 30fps games unless you're moving at a snails pace? I think that this is something everybody should be able to confirm is bollocks based on their own experiences with 30fps games for decades.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Unless they are blurring all the frames, lateral camera transitions still allow you to take in detail perfectly well. Even in a game like Vanquish, where it's all about speed and fast movement, there is no major problem taking in the detail despite its 30hz refresh rate. I'm not clear on how I'm supposed to be taking in details when they're apparently on screen for less than 33miliseconds anyway, it seems like it's going to be extremely fleeting. In fact I think you're basically talking nonsense with this comment. Like you literally are unable to appreciate graphics properly in 30fps games unless you're moving at a snails pace? I think that this is something everybody should be able to confirm is bollocks based on their own experiences with 30fps games for decades.
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Objects/textures etc don't only stay on the screen for 16 or 33 ms, they get updated every 16 or 33 ms
It's about being able to track objects/the environment and them staying sharp and defined

you can follow something on the screen and it will look like the thing

but with low framerates + lcd blur + motion blur it just looks like someone rubbed an alcohol soaked rag on a painting

pursuitcam_motionblur.jpg

vs
photo-300x300.png

the actual object

what is the point of having the detail in the ufo if you can't see it as it flies across the screen
 
I'm sure they would have got higher quality shadows on the 60fps version if they had more time.

I believe a Dev said they only had 6 months and wanted it to match the 1 year anniversary of the game. 6 months isn't a long time.
 
delt31 said:
Really? Tell me you're not serious. Just b/c it's a last gen game DOES mean it should be 60fps with the best graphics. The fact it doesn't means rush job. If ND is trying to get 1080p 60fps with THE NEW UNCHARTEFD how in the hell can they not get PS3 game not to run. Sorry but your response allows ND to get away with this nonsense.
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You seem to think that 60fps comes free, which is silly. 60fps takes a certain amount of resources. Offering a 30fps mode will always free some of those resources and Naughty Dog decided to take advantage of that by improving the shadows. If anything, this is them being UNLAZY, since they could've just offered the 30fps lock and not improve anything. Maybe with some more optimization they could've added the current 30fps quality shadows to 60fps, but then there would have been something else they could've improved for the 30fps mode with its freed resources. But that would be time & resources off from NEW projects. It's preferable they just get this out as fast as possible (without sacrifying polish/quality) and then just move on to Uncharted 4 & whatever comes after..

Also, Naughty Dog probably used all the tricks possible to make TLOU look like it does on PS3 and getting that to run on a vastly different arcitechture is not a menial task, even if it's more powerful, like you so ignorantly seem to think.
 
I don't understand reactions of some people here. 30 fps will always use less resources, thus having the option of increasing graphic fidelity (if the developer wishes so). It has nothign to do with limited hardware. Even if the hardware was ten times stronger, 30fps version would still have that bit more space for graphical improvements.
 
CyberPunked said:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3855/14767314363_e021ca73db_b.jpg[/]
Next-gen consoles, Ladies and Gents...

And people actually think the PS4 can run this at 1080p 60fps
[IMG]http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1525/15257558/2565937-0285530472-iih8x.png[/][/QUOTE]

I agree.
Click to expand...
 
SneakyStephan said:
It's about being able to track objects/the environment and them staying sharp and defined

you can follow something on the screen and it will look like the thing

but with low framerates + lcd blur + motion blur it just looks like someone rubbed an alcohol soaked rag on a painting
Click to expand...

I"d like to see an analysis on 60fps vs 30fps running on a standard HDTV with 300 lines of motion resolution. On a PC monitor you might get more detail resolved even during movement but on a TV you'll lose some of that detail. Unless you add motionflow but then you're adding lag.

30/60 isn't an isolated metric, you need to include what you are viewing it on
 
SneakyStephan said:
It's about being able to track objects/the environment and them staying sharp and defined

you can follow something on the screen and it will look like the thing

but with low framerates + lcd blur + motion blur it just looks like someone rubbed an alcohol soaked rag on a painting
Click to expand...
How did we manage all these years...
 
Maybe I'm off here but in the past 30fps lock has been offered on games that didn't have a stable frame rate. It would make no sense to otherwise. They have stated that they decided to add better shadows after they were working on the 30fps lock. That suggests we might be looking at a Tomb Raider situation where the game has some frame dips and have the option to lock at 30.
 
Xenon said:
Maybe I'm off here but in the past 30fps lock has been offered on games that didn't have a stable frame rate. It would make no sense to otherwise. They have stated that they decided to add better shadows after they were working on the 30fps lock. That suggests we might be looking at a Tomb Raider situation where the game has some frame dips and have the option to lock at 30.
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ND has already said multiple times that the 30FPS lock has nothing to do with 60FPS dips
 
I think porting a game from last gen and making a game exclusively on PS4 is a big difference.

I'm sure there were a lot of special tricks they used to get TLoU to run on the PS3 and transferring it to PS4 was not an easy task. They probably had to completely re-write a lot of things that used to work on the PS3 that no longer work on the PS4.

People think that just because you have more processing power, that you should be able to just install the game on it and adjust the settings. This is not how consoles operate.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Unless they are blurring all the frames, lateral camera transitions still allow you to take in detail perfectly well. Running forwards / backwards and circle strafing shit certainly does. Even in a game like Vanquish, where it's all about speed and fast movement, there is no major problem taking in the detail despite its 30hz refresh rate. I'm not clear on how I'm supposed to be taking in details when they're apparently on screen for less than 33miliseconds anyway, it seems like it's going to be extremely fleeting. In fact I think you're basically talking nonsense with this comment. Like you literally are unable to appreciate graphics properly in 30fps games unless you're moving at a snails pace? I think that this is something everybody should be able to confirm is bollocks based on their own experiences with 30fps games for decades.
Click to expand...

I can't agree. Even during a relatively slow camera pan, a lot of detail is lost, due to the way our eyes and brains track objects (on a continuous manner instead of on-off-on-off on different locations on a video feed.). Apparently, the more samples are shown during motion, the better. Fooling brain is one thing, making it look natural is another (motion looking natural)
 
icespide said:
ND has already said multiple times that the 30FPS lock has nothing to do with 60FPS dips
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It's Xenon, you need to run his posts through the GAFXenon translate:

Xenon said:
Maybe I'm off here but this is a Playstation game so I have to suggest something negative. It would make no sense to otherwise. They have stated that this Playstation game benefits from something. That suggests I should initiate a collective opinion to try and spread uncertainty and concern.
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Kinyou said:
None of those run at 60 fps though. That's still the most doubtful part about the uc4 demo to me.
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But they're also all launch games, or launch window games. Just let that sink in for a bit. And compare the launch games on all systems ever released in the past, to their mid and later cycle releases.

Personally I don't think UC4 will maintain that level of fidelity in-game at 60fps, but if it even gets close, we are in for an absolute treat.
 
I still don't really understand the skepticism around the Uncharted demo. What does ND have to say to get you to believe? They have said like three times they're not lying.
 
StuBurns said:
UC4 will look like that.

Although The Order is hardly 'launch window', it's not even launch year.
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Yea fair enough. The Order is probably just outside of it I suppose (only by a few months), but it's still an early title in the grand scheme of things. We will have games that destroy it graphically in a year or two's time, and obviously by generations end.
 
I'm all for more options in games. Having the option in-game does no harm to fans of a smooth framerate, it merely enables those for whom 60fps isn't a necessity to enjoy some benefits of their own. Bioshock Infinite (believe they all might've) on PS3 at least supported disabling v-sync, which made framerate variable and introduced tearing but I welcomed the option whole-heartedly, cause I likes me some more frames per second.

And to people arguing why it can't have better shadows AND run 60fps, it probably comes down to this being a port of a PS3 game, and it's not exactly Sony swinging for the fences to get this to look a whole generation apart, merely convenience for those who did not play on PS3 or who wanna double-dip. Uncharted 4 might not be the stunner we want it to be, but Sony internal studios will do their damnest to squeeze all they can (GoW 3, Last of Us, Killzone 2/3) out of the machine they're working on, for the high-profile titles at the very least.
 
nib95 said:
But they're also all launch games, or launch window games. Just let that sink in for a bit. And compare the launch games on all systems ever released in the past, to their mid and later cycle releases.

Personally I don't think UC4 will maintain that level of fidelity in-game at 60fps, but if it even gets close, we are in for an absolute treat.
Click to expand...

Feed the Naughty Gods your doubt it only makes them stronger.
 
Y2Kev said:
I still don't really understand the skepticism around the Uncharted demo. What does ND have to say to get you to believe? They have said like three times they're not lying.
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I don't think they're lying about having that demo running. I just doubt that they'll achieve that in the actual game. Bungie also had the Halo 3 teaser running in real time and then had to make a lot of concessions when they built an actual game. Not saying that because bungie did that ND will too, just that having that teaser running doesn't have to mean all that much

nib95 said:
But they're also all launch games, or launch window games. Just let that sink in for a bit. And compare the launch games on all systems ever released in the past, to their mid and later cycle releases.

Personally I don't think UC4 will maintain that level of fidelity in-game at 60fps, but if it even gets close, we are in for an absolute treat.
Click to expand...
But how often did the non launch games look better and double the frame rate?
 
Kinyou said:
I don't think they're lying about having that demo running. I just doubt that they'll achieve that in the actual game. Bungie also had the Halo 3 teaser running in real time and then had to make a lot of concessions when they built an actual game. Not saying that because bungie did that ND will too, just that having that teaser running doesn't have too mean all that much
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But it's not a tech demo, UC4's been in development for nearly three years. It's obviously playable.
Kinyou said:
But how often did the non launch games look better and double the frame rate?
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What was the best looking launch year PS2 game? Because MGS2 completely outclassed everything else, and ran at 60.
 
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Unless they are blurring all the frames, lateral camera transitions still allow you to take in detail perfectly well. Running forwards / backwards and circle strafing shit certainly does. Even in a game like Vanquish, where it's all about speed and fast movement, there is no major problem taking in the detail despite its 30hz refresh rate. I'm not clear on how I'm supposed to be taking in details when they're apparently on screen for less than 33miliseconds anyway, it seems like it's going to be extremely fleeting. In fact I think you're basically talking nonsense with this comment. Like you literally are unable to appreciate graphics properly in 30fps games unless you're moving at a snails pace? I think that this is something everybody should be able to confirm is bollocks based on their own experiences with 30fps games for decades.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you said. Anyway, what's wrong with a bit of blur, it's actually realistic. Move your head from side to side at a reasonable pace and see how much detail you take in.

pissed as a fart here, not sure if I've made sense.
 
I'll play at 30fps then. I know a lot of tech types don't really appreciate/understand atmosphere, but for a game which really thrives on it, I think being able to enhance it is a much more exciting option than 60fps.
 
CyberPunked said:
I do, yes. They will hold back technical innovation in games for years, just like the PS3 and 360 did.
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As opposed to people who can't upgrade their PC's every year? Are you assuming people with older cpu's and gpu's suddenly vanish when the latest video card from Nvidia comes out?

I say consoles allow a LOT of innovation, due to the desire to get more out of a fixed hardware: instead of throwing more transistors at the same problem with the same solution, devs come up with smarter and faster methods, which later also benefit PC's, so you can enjoy your battlefield at 4K resolutions.

Also, let's not forget that consoles currently has feature-set parity with the highest end PC's (although with less grunt), and sizeable amount of RAM and a heck lot of cores to force devs to be more multi-core oriented (which also benefit PC's.).

farmerboy said:
I agree with everything you said. Anyway, what's wrong with a bit of blur, it's actually realistic. Move your head from side to side at a reasonable pace and see how much detail you take in.
Click to expand...

No, post-process blur is static loss of information. Basically, you are removing detail that could be tracked by the eye. Moving in a car, look at the side of the road. The fences would be blurry. Soon as you track the fence, it's no longer blurry. The more samples of motion, the more natural it would look.
 
cackhyena said:
How did we manage all these years...
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we had crt tvs which do not add blur (at any framerate)
that's how we managed

as time goes on you expect standards to go up, not down

1080p is now the new standard for console games (great)

60 fps is desirable as well (more so as it heavily affects controls response)
 
Kinyou said:
None of those run at 60 fps though. That's still the most doubtful part about the uc4 demo to me.
Click to expand...

Almost no game that say that they are 60fps run at that frame rate unless explicitly told otherwise (remember Titanfall). ND themselves said that UC4 will be 60 fps but there will inevitably be dips. inF: SS's framerate varies between 30 and 60 and the same holds true for KZSF (especially in MP).
 
Kinyou said:
But how often did the non launch games look better and double the frame rate?
Click to expand...

Well i would say DMC4 look better than most launch games and it was double the frame rate .
Also remember that games like ISS and KZ SF also above 30fps already so all ND has to do is get it at the upper end of 60fps more.
 
CyberPunked said:
Exactly. So why can't it have shadow resolutions higher than 1024...


I do, yes. They will hold back technical innovation in games for years, just like the PS3 and 360 did.
Click to expand...

lol. Do people really believe this? If consoles didn't "hold back PC gaming", do you really think these big budget games would suddenly start developing for the R9 290X like GPUs? Why would anyone reduce the amount of potential buyers when the AAA game market isn't that big on PC?

You have multiplats like Skyrim selling 20m and it's constantly mentioned around the mods, but still sells less than each of the console versions. Addition to the increasing development cost, how would publishers make money if they made the minimum requirements so high?

PC will still "hold back PC" if they want their games to sell.

Just look at all of the popular games on PC....
 
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