Support NeoGAF

[SAB CA]

Thoughts on SAOEnd:

Y'know, I don't entirely think SAO is just making Kayaba into a saint. I think they just want to make his motivations and ambition more layered than "I just wanted to kill MMOplayers".

Just like the concept of reality and fantasy is muddled as a theme in SAO, I think pure good and pure evil are suppose to be too.

SAO keeps trying to make us find sympathy and compassion or understanding in vile or unfortunate situations. At least it's... oddly consistent with this?

SAB CA extends the memory of Yuuki into October.

Gone, but not forgotten! I never get to draw everything I want to anymore, lol. Even though I watched MtH in Japanese before, I honestly want to see all of it again, which is more than I can say for some other shows I'd seen once before...

Are you guys ready to get infected next week?







Not with super AIDS, but...you know.....parasites.

Sure, ha. I remember so little of Parasyte from the Mixxzine days, I wanna see how much of this feels quasi-nostalgic.

 

[Mizerman]

LATER

Lulz at the Vegeta portion.

 

[Man God]

Woonami

 

[BassForever]

Thoughts on SAOEnd:

Y'know, I don't entirely think SAO is just making Kayaba into a saint. I think they just want to make his motivations and ambition more layered than "I just wanted to kill MMOplayers".

Just like the concept of reality and fantasy is muddled as a theme in SAO, I think pure good and pure evil are suppose to be too.

SAO keeps trying to make us find sympathy and compassion or understanding in vile or unfortunate situations. At least it's... oddly consistent with this?

I agree with this concept on paper, the problem is its awful execution. How hard is it to include a line that says "what Kayaba did with SAO is inexcusable, his actions killed thousands of players, at the same time his research with the mediciboids may lead to him saving millions one way. Letting someone dive for years during advanced medical treatment only got approved due to the fact so many were able to survive for years in SAO. I dunno if the survivors or the familes of the desceased can find comfort in that though"

Something, anything to acknowldge the situation ended up having good and bad consequences. Perhaps they could really ham it up, like when Kirito at the end of SAO asked "why did you do this" have him say "I needed an enviroment to ensure people could live for years while dived, hopefully one day you and the world will understand" then flash forward to Mother's Rosario and perhaps make Yuuki or another Sleeping Knight be the daugbter of Kayaba and make it a "kayaba was willing to put 10,000 lives on the line if it could give his child a chance for a less painful existence".

Once again there are so many things you could do with the SAO world and concepts to make very interesting and complex stories. SAO always bungles these concepts with the lowest common denominator execution.

 

[BBboy20]

After watching Black Mass, Sicario, Bond, and Creed are my most psyched films this year.

Also: SAO, FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!'ccccckkkllll

 

[Raxus]

Guys. I saw him posting this thread when I was stuck in the virtual world.

That's right. Seda is KAYABA!

 

[BBboy20]

Guys. I saw him posting this thread when I was stuck in the virtual world.

That's right. Seda is KAYABA!

This meme ain't ending, is it?

 

[BatDan]

Morning everyone. Finally, the SAO nightmare is over!

Dragon Ball Z Kai:
Vegeta will surely win, he's a Super Saiyan af- oh wait he didn't even scratch Freeza, and Freeza is brutally pummeling him. How much of that did Nicktoons cut? Hell, how much of that did Cartoon Network cut in original DBZ?

Akame ga Kill:
A moment where Akame has to show emotion. Oh wow that is terrible. Once again, it's the direction, not the actors. I mentioned this last night but the guy that kept going on about experience points was played by Chris Ayres, the current voice of Freeza.
Also, MORE EDGE! I'M A LITTLE BOY THAT CUTS OFF FACES!

Michiko & Hatchin:
An entire episode without the title characters. Instead focusing on Atsuko, and a little girl that acts like Michiko. It was alright, but how the hell did they get out of that gas area in the end?

Shikamaru Shippuden:
It's amazing how the story improves when Naruto and Sasuke aren't the focus. Kishi should have done more of this.

One Piece:
FILLER! DO NOT CARE!

SAO II Finale:
I have to applaud this show. You have a heartfelt moment (though melodramatic when everyone in the game shows up), with some actual decent performances and writing. Then you fuck it up with the last minute! You fuck it up by trying to make the god damn Season 1 serial killer into a saint again! What is it with this show trying to make Kayaba a good guy? He trapped thousands of people in a death game, and over 2000 of those people died! But then with ALO they're like "his tech made MMOs so much better", and now "he made advanced medical technology that could save millions!"
Good lord Kawahara, how are you such a hack?!

"Can't wait" to see how bad Season 3 is.

This meme ain't ending, is it?

Oh I can see this getting plenty of mileage.
"This must be the work of an Enemy Stand... or it was created by KAYABA!"

 

[Seda]

Guys. I saw him posting this thread when I was stuck in the virtual world.

That's right. Seda is KAYABA!

this is a lie

 

[Line_HTX]

A little late since it's daytime, but this is for Cornbread.

https://twitter.com/tsunderica/status/648058643586265088/photo/1

 

[BassForever]

A little late since it's daytime, but this is for Cornbread.

https://twitter.com/tsunderica/status/648058643586265088/photo/1

Her the va for Yuuki fucking nailed it she gets tons of props

 

[Line_HTX]

Yes, and despite me forever hating the main character that is Ryuko, she nailed Ryuko very well also. Very good performance from her.

 

[BatDan]

I don't hate Ryuko.

On another note, Parasyte is next week.

Spoiler

Is it too early to make MGSV jokes?

 

[BassForever]

I don't hate Ryuko.

On another note, Parasyte is next week.

Spoiler

Is it too early to make MGSV jokes?

Yes as I haven't played it yet and probably won't get a chance to for awhile

 

[ckohler]

Quicky reviews:

Dragon Ball Z: Kai - Stay loosing, Vegeta. I still think Goku was stupid to wait until the healing cycle fully completed. Now the real battle can begin!

Akame ga Kill - The voice performances aren't real the problem here. It's the actual show itself. It's badly written... and I'm not talking about the localization. The overall concept, characters and whiplash inducing tonal shifts are the real problem. These voice actors really don't have anything worthwhile to work with here. The whole show is as juvenile and cliche as any anime can get.

Michiko & Hatchin - I like Atsuko so much more than Michiko because she actually acts her age. On the other hand, the young woman she met's age was left too ambiguous. I got the impression she's around 18 or so. Regardless, the implied nudity was totally unnecessary. A lackluster episode overall.

Sword Art Online II - I was wondering what they would do with the final episode. Turns out it was Yuuki dying and her funeral. I should have realized they'd go this melodramatic. It was kinda over the top. However, I did like Yuuki as a character so watching her die (even if it took way too long) was heart-felt. Throwing Kayaba in there was a pathetic, eye-rolling attempt to wrap everything up in some vague connection to the original season. It was dumb and completely ruined the moment. The final coda scene as well was just hamfisted social-commentary that should have never aired. Just end the episode with that final shot of Asuna and Yuuki and it wouldn't have been as bad. I thought it was funny Sinon showed up for two brief cameos. Remember when she was a big deal? No? That's because this show is poorly written. Still, Mother's Rosario was probably the best (and I use that word cautiously) SAO ever got.

Naruto: Shippuden - As satisfying as watching Shikamaru's plans work so well against the Akatski, the show is unfortunately back to it's normal bland-looking animation and plodding pacing. Still, with so little Naruto in the show, it's more watchable than usual. One thing I wondered though: When Ino uses her Mind Transfer Jutsu on that bird, does that mean her body is temporarily inhabited by a bird?

One Piece - Confession time: I had already seen this filler story years ago. It was when I was browsing Hulu or Netflix and decided to watch a random One Piece episode to see what was going on. It wasn't terrible but it's also completely forgettable as most filler is. I have no idea what happens next week. BTW, when do we get a new opening?

Attack on Titan - This episode was better than I remembered it... at least the first half. Even though Eren can be annoying, he was pretty crazy in this episode and I liked it. Those flashbacks for Annie were interesting and make me want to learn more about her. Too bad it'll probably be years before they show any new AoT on Toonami. The final shot is just as weird as the first time I saw it.

 

[Soulflarz]

I don't hate Ryuko.

On another note, Parasyte is next week.

Spoiler

Is it too early to make MGSV jokes?

Seeing as its 90hr long yes

 

[MetatronM]

Naruto: Shippuden - As satisfying as watching Shikamaru's plans work so well against the Akatski, the show is unfortunately back to it's normal bland-looking animation and plodding pacing. Still, with so little Naruto in the show, it's more watchable than usual. One thing I wondered though: When Ino uses her Mind Transfer Jutsu on that bird, does that mean her body is temporarily inhabited by a bird?

One Piece - Confession time: I had already seen this filler story years ago. It was when I was browsing Hulu or Netflix and decided to watch a random One Piece episode to see what was going on. It wasn't terrible but it's also completely forgettable as most filler is. I have no idea what happens next week. BTW, when do we get a new opening?

Ino's mind taking isn't a mind swap, she just basically overwrites the person's own mind to become the dominant personality. We saw this when she used it on Sakura when Sakura was able to force her out.

As for a new opening, it's coming with episode 326.

 

[lazybones18]

I don't hate Ryuko.

On another note, Parasyte is next week.

Spoiler

Is it too early to make MGSV jokes?

everyone infected carries the Bad Dub strain?

 

[Line_HTX]

everyone infected carries the Bad Dub strain?

It's the return and spread of the plague known as terrible 90s dubs. I'm noticing that a handful of VA's in AgK came from ADV, which at the time were pretty shotty and below average.

 

[MetatronM]

It's the return and spread of the plague known as terrible 90s dubs. I'm noticing that a handful of VA's in AgK came from ADV, which at the time were pretty shotty and below average.

That's because Sentai is basically what rose up out of ADV's ashes.

 

[SAB CA]

Lulz at the Vegeta portion.

It's funny to me that Vegeta thought himself so strong... and THAT was his first physical attack afterwards. An attack Frieza totally can dodge and keep track of. YAY! No, Vegeta, this is going to go over GREAT!

I agree with this concept on paper, the problem is its awful execution. How hard is it to include a line that says "what Kayaba did with SAO is inexcusable, his actions killed thousands of players, at the same time his research with the mediciboids may lead to him saving millions one way. Letting someone dive for years during advanced medical treatment only got approved due to the fact so many were able to survive for years in SAO. I dunno if the survivors or the familes of the desceased can find comfort in that though"

Something, anything to acknowldge the situation ended up having good and bad consequences. Perhaps they could really ham it up, like when Kirito at the end of SAO asked "why did you do this" have him say "I needed an enviroment to ensure people could live for years while dived, hopefully one day you and the world will understand" then flash forward to Mother's Rosario and perhaps make Yuuki or another Sleeping Knight be the daugbter of Kayaba and make it a "kayaba was willing to put 10,000 lives on the line if it could give his child a chance for a less painful existence".

Once again there are so many things you could do with the SAO world and concepts to make very interesting and complex stories. SAO always bungles these concepts with the lowest common denominator execution.

We all know SAO has no buildup or well-written foreshadowing, lol. I do wonder if this matters to it's average fan though. They seem to eat it up, and find enough meaning out of what it does, in order to treat it as a significant series. I can never shake the feeling that SAO excels at what it does for it's intended / unfortunate audience. It always makes me feel like an old man, who was in love with what was created in his time, but finds what was made afterwards to be more lacking in quality, because it doesn't compare to what he knew.

This meme ain't ending, is it?

Nope! Even when my brother and I heard the mention, we both simultaneously said "OhMyGahdKAYABA!" out loud, so....

Michiko & Hatchin - I like Atsuko so much more than Michiko because she actually acts her age. On the other hand, the young woman she met's age was left too ambiguous. I got the impression she's around 18 or so. Regardless, the implied nudity was totally unnecessary. A lackluster episode overall.

Atsuko is always interesting to me, because she feels like she puts on an act to try to do what's right... but she's just as messed up on the inside as anyone from the Monstro / Orphanage / Hiroshi and Satoshi circles.

Michiko and Vanessa Lee both are blunt with their feelings, and aren't ashamed of laying everything they feel out bare and in the open, with no real pretense or concern about what others think. Totally naked before any who get a bit close, and are willing to listen. It's stupid, dumb, and should be embarrassing, but it's also aggravating in it's simplicity, and easy to be envious of.

I wonder if her lack of an obvious shapely figure also factors in to things. Atsuko is mature acting, but physically doesn't look as developed as these other women, who have some obvious sexual charm at whatever age. She's really got a fashion model-esque figure, but something so refined and nuanced means very little in the world she hails from.

She was an obvious "Femigata" from the start... but I really grew to like her more than the usual detective-after-the-criminal archetype as the story grew. She just feels so much more personally involved, and the feeling that she sympathizes with the wrong actions of that who she chases after is very palpable.

It all makes me want to sit and watch "The Woman called Fujiko Mine", actually. Sayo Yamamoto might direct a messy show that skips around and blurs connection lines between events, but the characterization shown off is somehow refreshing to me.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Thoughts on SAOEnd:

Y'know, I don't entirely think SAO is just making Kayaba into a saint. I think they just want to make his motivations and ambition more layered than "I just wanted to kill MMOplayers".

Just like the concept of reality and fantasy is muddled as a theme in SAO, I think pure good and pure evil are suppose to be too.

SAO keeps trying to make us find sympathy and compassion or understanding in vile or unfortunate situations. At least it's... oddly consistent with this?

How the hell can you say this after the murder guild crap in SAO, and the entire main story of the ALO and GGO arcs?

 

[Zonic]

The REAL question at hand is which season was more tolerable, S1 or S2?

 

[BassForever]

The REAL question at hand is which season was more tolerable, S1 or S2?

Season 2 was better then season 1 of SAO imo.

 

[GaimeGuy]

"the game creator is the final boss! HOW COOL IS THAT?!"

"The game creator made this Seed thing AND the medicivoid thing! HE'S A GENIUS!!!!! AND LOOK AT WHAT THAT DOES FOR THESE DYING CHILDREN, THESE OTHER CHILDREN WITH PTSD, AND THESE FAMILIES WITH WEDGES DRIVEN BETWEEN THEM? GAMES ARE AWESOME! GAME MAKERS ARE AWESOME! KAYABA IS AWESOME!"

It's honestly nauseating

 

[Line_HTX]

I'd say Season 2 was better. It felt like Season 1 had more violations of dignity than Season 2. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know...

Gaime needs to bring more tables for the Sentai power hour though.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I'd say Season 2 was better. It felt like Season 1 had more violations of dignity than Season 2. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know...

Gaime needs to bring more tables for the Sentai power hour though.

Sentai power hour?

 

[SAB CA]

How the hell can you say this after the murder guild crap in SAO, and the entire main story of the ALO and GGO arcs?

For GGO, even after Sinon had a guy try to force himself on her... she still sympathized, wanted to talk to him, and defended / tried to understand how reality had shifted for him. Not to mention Sino's personal "I killed a man, I should be a hero... but my family became scared of me, and ostracized me!" Plotline.

ALO, don't we have the entire fact that Evil SAO computer root still had practical, more nuanced applications? The entire fact that a murderer's code was this big revolution that changed the face of online games from that point on? ALO was our big point where Kayaba became potentially worthy of praise in our main characters eyes, right? Plus Sugu's socially wrong, but personally almost-plausible love for her Cousin/Brother/Kirigod? She admits herself that her feeling are probably wrong, but she also list all the reasons why they're right for her and her situation.

Murder guild stuff... even murders get us butt shot fanservice! *ahem* This is probably the hardest one to see something deeper, but all that silly "I killed my wife because she was awesome!" stuff could be seen as a good action that normally calls for praise had a dark, evil side, in that it made him feel inadequate and emasculated. I would agree they are probably supposed to be our "Darkest Evil", however, since they were brought back as something Kirito

Spoiler

*Surprise!*

had a deep rooted connection to

Spoiler

*that no one remembered*

from his SAO days.

SAO constantly plays with the idea that a horrible thing has positive and negative repercussions. Yuuki's death gave her friends the strength to live. Kayaba trapping everyone in a game where they could REALLY die turned Kirito into a god gave a bunch of modern people a chance to live medieval-style combat experiences and see life in a new light.

 

[GaimeGuy]

For GGO, even after Sinon had a guy try to force himself on her... she still sympathized, wanted to talk to him, and defended / tried to understand how reality had shifted for him. Not to mention Sino's personal "I killed a man, I should be a hero... but my family became scared of me, and ostracized me!" Plotline.

ALO, don't we have the entire fact that Evil SAO computer root still had practical, more nuanced applications? The entire fact that a murderer's code was this big revolution that changed the face of online games from that point on? ALO was our big point where Kayaba became potentially worthy of praise in our main characters eyes, right? Plus Sugu's socially wrong, but personally almost-plausible love for her Cousin/Brother/Kirigod? She admits herself that her feeling are probably wrong, but she also list all the reasons why they're right for her and her situation.

Murder guild stuff... even murders get us butt shot fanservice! *ahem* This is probably the hardest one to see something deeper, but all that silly "I killed my wife because she was awesome!" stuff could be seen as a good action that normally calls for praise had a dark, evil side, in that it made him feel inadequate and emasculated. I would agree they are probably supposed to be our "Darkest Evil", however, since they were brought back as something Kirito

Spoiler

*Surprise!*

had a deep rooted connection to

Spoiler

*that no one remembered*

from his SAO days.

SAO constantly plays with the idea that a horrible thing has positive and negative repercussions. Yuuki's death gave her friends the strength to live. Kayaba trapping everyone in a game where they could REALLY die turned Kirito into a god gave a bunch of modern people a chance to live medieval-style combat experiences and see life in a new light.

i give you an A+ for effort.

 

[Hellwarden]

Sentai power hour?

Sentai is actually calling it the Sentai Block.

I'm not kidding.

 

[Line_HTX]

Sentai power hour?

Akame ga Kill followed by Parasyte the -maxim-

Sentai is actually calling it the Sentai Block.

I'm not kidding.

Their Twitter is very weird, lol.



I like Mine's VA. As for the character, there are way worse tsundere's than her. She's nothing to be honest.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

Both seasons have absolutely terrible portrayals of serious issues, but I think it's clear that the guy grew by a fairly minuscule amount as a writer with the recent three arcs.

 

[LOLDSFAN]

My favorite thing about SAO last night was the fact that they ended on "Ok daddy."

 

[Jarate]

It was fun getting through Toonami, but AGK is my hurdle right now

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Season 1 is way more entertaining

 

[SAB CA]

i give you an A+ for effort.

I don't think it's a stretch. I mean, instead of just laughing at SAO, calling it dumb or insipid or whatnot, why not actually try to delve into why it's popular enough to get the games and seasons it gets?

That was definitely a reason why Anime appealed to me, back in the day. US animation portrayed good and evil as purely opposite ends on a line. Yet Robotech showed me evil guys horrible enough to eradicate the entire earth... but yet with enough potential to shrink some of it's people, have them live with humans, and actually have Max fall in love with one of them.

Such an acceptance of ambiguity can really gel with an audience that's young, impressionable, or confused. It can also spout from a writer or designer that's trying to explain why their weird obsessions are actually cool to a wide audience. You gain a strong following when you give lost people a place to belong.

 

[Man God]

Season 1: More hateable, better groupwatch. Better soundtrack and OPs as well.

Season 2: DEATH GUN, even better dub VAs. More logicial storytelling, but being more average also means its less hateable and less interesting. I'd rather watch season 2 on a replay.

 

[Seda]

Season 1: More hateable, better groupwatch. Better soundtrack and OPs as well.

Season 2: DEATH GUN, even better dub VAs. More logicial storytelling, but being more average also means its less hateable and less interesting. I'd rather watch season 2 on a replay.

Any ironic trainwreck enjoyment would definitely be significantly reduced on a rerun.

 

[Man God]

Any ironic trainwreck enjoyment would definitely be significantly reduced on a rerun.

That being said some of the season 1 moments are so hateable that as long as you've got someone with you its still fun to watch again.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

I don't think it's a stretch. I mean, instead of just laughing at SAO, calling it dumb or insipid or whatnot, why not actually try to delve into why it's popular enough to get the games and seasons it gets?

That was definitely a reason why Anime appealed to me, back in the day. US animation portrayed good and evil as purely opposite ends on a line. Yet Robotech showed me evil guys horrible enough to eradicate the entire earth... but yet with enough potential to shrink some of it's people, have them live with humans, and actually have Max fall in love with one of them.

Such an acceptance of ambiguity can really gel with an audience that's young, impressionable, or confused. It can also spout from a writer or designer that's trying to explain why their weird obsessions are actually cool to a wide audience. You gain a strong following when you give lost people a place to belong.

You act like we all haven't already talked about why SAO is popular and concluded that people love the self-insert waifu collection + anything at all related to video games. The idea that SAO is legitimately trying to push some kind of ambiguity completely flies in the face of the fact that all of its villains but Kayaba have devolved into cartoon characters maybe a step or two away from either twirling their mustaches or going on some Daffy Duck tirade. It's like clockwork.

 

[Man God]

I pretend that SAO is popular because of the gorgeous backdrops and Yui.

 

[ckohler]

 

[BassForever]

Any ironic trainwreck enjoyment would definitely be significantly reduced on a rerun.

Having seen both seasons multiple times dubbed and subbed, each time I find new things to laugh at that I missed before

 

[Crocodile]

Ways to have Kayaba be responsible for the Medicube tech and not have it come-off as a dick sucking retcon:

A) The Medicube tech was always Kayaba's intention/goal but he either couldn't get the funding/approval to move into human trails now/ever and/or he knew he would have to experiment on humans under unethical conditions (force somebody to stay on it for years). Though well meaning, his sociopathic tendencies/personality lead the the "SAO Plan". Kirito beats him at the end and either Kayaba explicitly reveals his plans or in some grandiose villainous way teases "it was for the greater good". You can even make it where Kayaba has a relative who is suffering from some horrible (but realistic - i.e. not Super Aids) disease that the Medicube could make more manageable which was part of his motivation. Kayaba gets arrested and imprisoned at the end (or killed, whatever), just to make it clear what he did was totally unacceptable but the Medicube tech is advanced through the trials of SAO and goes on to help people.

B) Kayaba enacts the SAO plan because he's a fucking asshole who likes to manipulate people or as part of some huge social psychological experiment (I could imagine a mad psychologist wanting to observe humans during their most dire moments). Kirito beats him at the end and either Kayaba explicitly reveals his plans or in some grandiose villainous way teases "it was for the greater good". Kayaba gets arrested and imprisoned at the end (or killed, whatever), just to make it clear what he did was totally unacceptable but rather than tossing his research into a dumpster fire, the government or former colleagues of his make use of it and turn it into the Medicube technology.

On a side note, thinking about it, it's a shame they only did a superficial treatment of how being trapped in this new world allowed for so many people to get a new start on life. They did a bit with that wife who turned into a badass (who then got murder by her husband, ugh) but I felt there should have been more stories like that. A more adept and socially aware writer could have used it to explore issues of ableism, sexuality, gender identity, classism and even racism in interesting ways. I understand that's its a risky way to go if you're a shitty writer but man if SAO was actually written by somebody who knew a damn. You could even start building up factions of people who really want to leave SAO and people who actually want to stay for Reason X (I know this has been a plot point in other narratives where people get transplanted to alternate worlds but I think it just works on an inherent level if done well). They did this a tiny bit with Asuna's struggles near the start of SAO and a bit with that CEO turned fisherman but they could have done more and been so much better.

I do wonder if the fact I can think of so many ways this series could have been legit good is part of the reason it frustrates me and pisses me off so much.

I don't think it's a stretch. I mean, instead of just laughing at SAO, calling it dumb or insipid or whatnot, why not actually try to delve into why it's popular enough to get the games and seasons it gets?

That was definitely a reason why Anime appealed to me, back in the day. US animation portrayed good and evil as purely opposite ends on a line. Yet Robotech showed me evil guys horrible enough to eradicate the entire earth... but yet with enough potential to shrink some of it's people, have them live with humans, and actually have Max fall in love with one of them.

Such an acceptance of ambiguity can really gel with an audience that's young, impressionable, or confused. It can also spout from a writer or designer that's trying to explain why their weird obsessions are actually cool to a wide audience. You gain a strong following when you give lost people a place to belong.

It's not enough to show up with decent ideas, you actually have to execute them well for it to mean anything. The motivations for Sinon's stalker were stupid and made no sense (plus queue another example where the author can only write antagonists as evil rapists), Sinon's family's reaction to her was implausible and not well developed, Sugu's cousin lovin' made no sense and was overdramtic as fuck, the Kayaba dick sucking makes no sense, is distasteful and reeks of a continuous retcon, etc.

If you want to actually deliver subtlety and nuance, you have to actually write subtlety and nuance and not overdramtic, nonsensical and occasionally offensive pulp. People in this series constantly do things that make no sense, misapply gravitas, many of these characters are barely, characters, etc. This is a commercial product, not a elementary school project. "Effort" and "good intentions" can only get you so far.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

At this point I expect to learn that Kayaba was actually a prisoner, too, or somebody else behind the scenes forced him to build in the whole brain-frying aspect. The show seems to think that by failing to mention the whole mass murderer detail of his character, it's creating some distance and is, as a result, free to retcon his intentions because we're all forgetful idiots.

 

[SAB CA]

You act like we all haven't already talked about why SAO is popular and concluded that people love the self-insert waifu collection + anything at all related to video games. The idea that SAO is legitimately trying to push some kind of ambiguity completely flies in the face of the fact that all of its villains but Kayaba have devolved into cartoon characters maybe a step or two away from either twirling their mustaches or going on some Daffy Duck tirade. It's like clockwork.

Not at all. My response in this case was mostly to Gaime, first off. I wasn't tryin' to come off in the "You guys don't get SAO, but I'M AN EXPERT!" GaFmacro.

You also know I'm not entirely sold on Kirito's success as a character solely being on his self-insert status. He turns down the woman who likes him that has the best body, and falls for a girl who is strong, but kinda plain.. but that's just me going off my, or more common taste.

But what I'm suggesting about it's ambiguity... you don't even have to be a great writer in order to hit those notes. It just has to be something you desire. A desperate person who wants somewhere to belong will write a story that gives him some place to belong. When one makes characters, they show facets of themselves. Sharing your creative ideas with the world is very intimate, because all you create has some side of your own personality. All your villains with well-explained reasoning as to WHY they do things reveal a dark side of yourself, for instance. "You've obviously thought a lot about this!" is the feeling intricate sexual assault and torture sequences leave with me, when I see them. When I make a character in sprite or drawing for people, this is how I think about what I put into them. They might give me an outline, but fleshing it out is generally based on how I see the presented personality.

My greater point is that no matter what the series devolves into (thanks to having no nuance or compassion for it's subject matter through most of it's existence), I still see this as a clear theme (intentional or otherwise) in the show, and with it's cast.

To me, if a good writer clearly communicated their thoughts and feeling in story, a poorer one still has the same ambitions, but communicates them shoddily. When one talks with socially awkward people, they often still have meaningful things to say, but if no one is there to interpret it, they just say a bunch of bad things, while misusing words and displaying poor body language.

Does such a viewpoint come off as... antagonistic? Wasn't really meant to be so. While some thought the episode was ruined because of Kayaba + Grandiose scale of sending off a single girl, I just think everything else that was there mattered to me a lot more than those few moments, and it left a different impression, consistent with a feeling past situations have given me.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

Not at all. My response in this case was mostly to Gaime, first off. I wasn't tryin' to come off in the "You guys don't get SAO, but I'M AN EXPERT!" GaFmacro.

You also know I'm not entirely sold on Kirito's success as a character solely being on his self-insert status. He turns down the woman who likes him that has the best body, and falls for a girl who is strong, but kinda plain.. but that's just me going off my, or more common taste.

But what I'm suggesting about it's ambiguity... you don't even have to be a great writer in order to hit those notes. It just has to be something you desire. A desperate person who wants somewhere to belong will write a story that gives him some place to belong. When one makes characters, they show facets of themselves. Sharing your creative ideas with the world is very intimate, because all you create has some side of your own personality. All your villains with well-explained reasoning as to WHY they do things reveal a dark side of yourself, for instance. "You've obviously thought a lot about this!" is the feeling intricate sexual assault and torture sequences leave with me, when I see them. When I make a character in sprite or drawing for people, this is how I think about what I put into them. They might give me an outline, but fleshing it out is generally based on how I see the presented personality.

My greater point is that no matter what the series devolves into (thanks to having no nuance or compassion for it's subject matter through most of it's existence), I still see this as a clear theme (intentional or otherwise) in the show, and with it's cast.

To me, if a good writer clearly communicated their thoughts and feeling in story, a poorer one still has the same ambitions, but communicates them shoddily. When one talks with socially awkward people, they often still have meaningful things to say, but if no one is there to interpret it, they just say a bunch of bad things, while misusing words and displaying poor body language.

Does such a viewpoint come off as... antagonistic? Wasn't really meant to be so. While some thought the episode was ruined because of Kayaba + Grandiose scale of sending off a single girl, I just think everything else that was there mattered to me a lot more than those few moments, and it left a different impression, consistent with a feeling past situations have given me.

You really just have to take a single glance at something like the fan fiction community to see that simple suggestion of Kirito being with these women is enough for a lot of people. And even then, sometimes suggestion isn't even needed; you just need proximity. The fact that Kirito rejects the other women doesn't really change that the women are still there or that the camera still loves to linger on certain parts of them, and I have absolutely no problems believing that is more than enough for people. Hell, it was enough for the people developing the SAO games.

I don't see any of these as intentional ambiguity; it just strikes me as the creator of the show trying to write himself out of a corner. It feels like he's stuck because he wants to glamorize the technology of a guy he wrote as a mass murderer, so he now has to show how Kayaba actually wasn't such a bad guy and portray the greater evils because he needs to find a way to continue this thing. And sure, he doesn't actually NEED to come up with this kind of flimsy justification after the fact, but given how things have progressed, it seems that he feels like he needs to. Sinon sympathizing with her poor attempted rapist seems like it's supposed to speak more for her character than some overarching theme, because I think the portrayal of that guy would've been toned down if he was supposed to be ambiguous, even in the hands of this writer. Sugu's incest thing exists for pandering. While I do believe SAO is at least attempting some bigger ideas with the uses and implications of this kind of technology, I think something like this is looking for something that isn't there, poorly portrayed or not.

 

[Regiruler]

Can I be the white ranger?
EDIT: There's no white, boo

 

[Regiruler]

For those wondering why it's been so long for season 2 of attack on titan

Toonami better get its ass on those simuldub rights to create a dbz AoT power hour.

Edit: dp, bleh

 

[BassForever]

Toonami better get its ass on those simuldub rights to create a dbz AoT power hour.

Edit: dp, bleh

If Toonami and Funimation can pull off AoT simuldub airing shortly after it's Japanese airing that'd be a major win for everyone.