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Total War: Warhammer |OT| WAAAGHcraft 4

Palehorse

Member
I'm having a blast. I went Empire first as I figured a) it would be the most appealing and b) I would only really play through the game once so go with my heart.

I've dabbled with Shogun 2 but never gotten far and only a few turns in any other TW I picked up. (thank you steam sales) I didn't get the diplomacy. I sucked at battles. I didn't want to start wars with perfectly happy neighbours.

I'm now at turn 115 of TWW and loving it (still suck at battles). The End Times have arrived. I want to try every faction.
 

Baalzebup

Member
If you want to talk about long campaigns, my first ever total war campaign with Vampire counts finished at turn 570 :p (to be fair, there were like only 4 human settlements that I didn't have at that point, and I had burned the Norsca to the ground and razed about 60% of all orc settlements in the south). I had a timid start and couldn't get almost anything done for quite a while, beside stomping the orc/dwarf settlements to the east and south. Then I managed to break a bit to the north and finally stomp Templehoff around the time Archaon and his buddies started to steamroll everything. I managed to bloody their armies enough that they decided to take the path of least resistance, storming Talabheim and then proceeding to absolutely destroy most of the known world. They swung first west, then south and were only stopped about midway through the orc lands as my superduper assassin banshee kept polishing off their leadership and then the orcs finally got a good counter-WAAAAAAGH! on them. Then the remaining dwarven and human factions were in complete deadlock with the two remaining orc tribes and I was able to basically do whatever I wanted, which in this case was to cleanse the north of the raiders, just because. By the time I finished that, I had so much firepower in my possession that the very idea of losing was impossible.

I'm now doing a dwarven playthrough and hating the fact they don't seem to have anything to really kill enemy heroes. The grudges that demand assassinations are complete ass because of that. Edit: jesus what differences there can be :D Warriors of Chaos just got destroyed before they even passed Kislev.
 
Just got this and started a game today, played for a couple hours and I think I am on like turn 10 or so.

Either way, I think this is unexpectedly my favorite Total War title, and feels immediately great in every facet. This is coming from a long time player(Been playing since Medieval Total War), and big fan of the series.

In fact I think I own just about every total war game except for the first shogun and Attila.
 

MikeDown

Banned
Starting a new campaign as Vampire Counts after having my ass handed to me by Chaos and their allies. Things have been going pretty good so far, have some human allies as well as the Dwarfs on my side. Currently waging a war against the Boarder Princes, attempting to carve out some southern territory.
 

Dmax3901

Member
This is the first Total War game in years to actually try and do something new, unique and fun. Never have my armies/lords/cities felt so unique to me, and my faction. In Rome, Shogun etc it was hard to imagine much of a history behind my particular faction.

Everything is so heightened in this fantasy world, it's great. It has character.

I'm worried if they go back to a more realistic, historical Total War it will be extremely dull in comparison.
 
This is the first Total War game in years to actually try and do something new, unique and fun. Never have my armies/lords/cities felt so unique to me, and my faction. In Rome, Shogun etc it was hard to imagine much of a history behind my particular faction.

Everything is so heightened in this fantasy world, it's great. It has character.

I'm worried if they go back to a more realistic, historical Total War it will be extremely dull in comparison.

Well, we'll get two more Total War Warhammer games at least.
 
This is the first Total War game in years to actually try and do something new, unique and fun. Never have my armies/lords/cities felt so unique to me, and my faction. In Rome, Shogun etc it was hard to imagine much of a history behind my particular faction.

Everything is so heightened in this fantasy world, it's great. It has character.

I'm worried if they go back to a more realistic, historical Total War it will be extremely dull in comparison.


I feel like they will be in the Warhammer world for a while but I think they learned a lot about what they can do in a Total War. We'll definitely see some of the mechanics pioneered in Total Warhammer in the historical games.
 

Klyka

Banned
Well my Greenskins at turn 160 have officially beaten Archaon and are by far the strongest faction.

At this point, finishing the long campaign is basically just a formality and busywork,so I will bow out here and try a new campaign :)
 

Klyka

Banned
Vampire Counts are very fun so far! I am slowly spreading vampiric corruption in the surrounding regions while having taken over the other vampire towns, crushing some orkz and dwarves as well.

Now I am changing all of skeletons out for grave guard and building a nice black knight cavalry army as well.

None shall stand before the mighty Vampires!
 
I wish in multiplayer battles it was easier to tell teams apart. Units and icons should be a completely different colour so you can who they belong to right away but it seems there are only slight differences.
 

Dmax3901

Member
So chaos have just introduced themselves... things aren't looking good and I thought I was going so well too. Hmm.

I feel like they will be in the Warhammer world for a while but I think they learned a lot about what they can do in a Total War. We'll definitely see some of the mechanics pioneered in Total Warhammer in the historical games.

I hope so, but it's difficult to imagine 'loot' and magic in a historical setting :p

I swear when it was first announced they said don't worry we've got other teams working on regular Total War!
 

Lorcain

Member
After finishing a 255 turn campaign, I wanted to mention a few things about the tactical AI that surprised and impressed me. All of these observations are from normal difficulty.

- The AI will aggressively and mercilessly pressure your flanks and rear lines. If the AI finds a weakness, it will bring more units to bear on that spot or opening. I don't remember the AI from previous TW titles doing this so competently on normal difficulty.

- If the AI has fast movers of any type, it will often times disguise flanking maneuvers until the last possible moment, and then sweep those units around for the attack. A lot of times the AI will manage flanking and rear attacks simultaneously, while also managing front line engagement. It's a fun challenge to keep up with all of that pressure on normal.

- Unlike previous TW games, the AI will actively work to deny you access to its flanks and rear. It's still not up to the caliber of a human player in protecting these areas, but it's so much better than earlier TW games where you could exploit flank harassment to win ridiculously outnumbered battles. At a minimum the AI will maneuver out a unit to be a speed bump to slow down flank pressure.

- The AI manages cavalry better in this game, constantly charging weak spots and then pulling them out to either charge again, or find another weak spot. It will rarely commit cavalry units to a prolonged stand still melee.

- If you don't find a way to pressure enemy ranged units, the AI will competently use them to whittle down lines and break morale. Thankfully it doesn't seem to focus fire too often with multiple ranged units on normal. The AI is still vulnerable to being focus fired itself.
 
So uh, I don't know where time went but I pretty much spent the last 15 hours playing this almost non stop(breaks for walks, and bathroom/water).

So just to summarize everything:

  • When I started as empire I was the weakest, by turn 14 or so I was the strongest, and I slowly began steamrolling people if they didn't agree to join me or parlay in any way
  • I underestimated the size of several key battles, trading wins and losses. This was around turn 30, where everything started to go down hill fast
  • At turn 35, the dwarves all suddenly turn hostile, breaking all my diplomacy with them.
  • I made several successful but costly defenses from turn 35 onto 45. At that point Mannfred and some other assholes joined the frey. I managed to beat them back by turn 50 but I was pretty much bankrupt and my armies were pretty fucked.
  • Lost a bunch of territory
  • Consolidated my power back to Altdorf, and after a few turns managed to work out some diplomacy and take some settlesments.
  • by turn 60 I had turned an incredibly harrowing situation into a much better one
  • At about turn 70 I managed to start making defensive and military alliances. My trade income grows, as well as my total income as I reinvested some of my wealth into my few cities
  • The green dwarves proceed to fuck my shit up for 20 turns, I lose like most of the center area I had... he was also just sacking everything. FUCK.
  • Luckily I kept most of my armies away from these green assholes of destruction
  • Eventually, they get scared off by Mannfred and the Undead guy's armies. They agree to peace.
  • The next following turns saw an interesting amount of politcal changes, I managed to somehow make up and make good will with everyone, confederated a bunch of places, and made military alliances with 85% of the remaining human/dwarf fortresses
  • now at turn 115, Mannfred and his undead bros are coming for dat booty. Too bad I've allied with nearly everyone with a military alliance.
  • The blue Dwarves call for help for the second time against the greenskins... can't do shit because my armies are too far away. They even paid me the second time LOL.
  • I fear I might have left Chaos unchecked for too long. I think this is gonna end badly. :(
 
How do I get better at this game? :<

That's quite a vague question.

General tips would be, expand slowly after securing your positions.

Every province, you want to build the income generating buildings, one or two growth building(in the entire province, not per region, you look for the regions that don't have 2 income based buildings like the ones that generate income+tradeable ressources), you turn on the growth commandment to help, and eventually as your 3rd building in every region but the capital, you put walls to make it easy to defend even if you're not here. For the income buildings, you want to upgrade them early. They take a while to pay off for the upgrade costs, so the earliest the better. Growth buildings on the other hand, in some cases aren't worth upgrading, depends on your plans.

Plan your army buildings. Anything that doesn't go higher than tier3, you probably want to put in the minor settlements in your main province instead of in your capital. That's cause you want to put as many of the tier4/5buildings in your capital, since that's the only place you can build them.

If there's a lot of buildings for armies, you want to make use of 2 different adjacent provinces. For example if you play Empire, you'd want to put Artillery and gun stuff in Nuln, while you put Cavalry in Altdorf and infantry stuff in one of the minor settlements around Altdorf(cause the infantry building caps at tier3 so no need to take place in Altdorf). You could also put Cav in Middenlands, but I find it's a bit exposed since it's so far north. Or you could put stuff in Marienburg since it's close but have to remember that one slot is dedicated to the port stuff.

Adjacent provinces to your starting one also often have special buildings for a specific unit(Nuln for Artillery, Middenlands for Cavalry in the empire example but it's similar with other races, Western Sylvania has beast building and the province north has skeleton building), so once you see that you might want to change your plans down the road.

But basically, you want a plan on how you're going to build the core of your empire, where you get all your tech buildings. Any military support building has to be built in the same province as military recruitement buildings for the units using it, so it's worth spending a few minutes figuring out how you're going to get your buildings at the start.

When building an army, there's a few things you want to consider.

If it's a defensive army, meant to stay garrisonned in defense to protect one of your fronts, then lower tier units suffice, since they'll fight with the garrison(do think of upgrading the garrisons though on these fronts). For example, a lord, 14-16basic melee infantry(skeletons, swordsmen, orcboys, warriors etc), and a bit of stronger units, ranged if available, is enough to defend most stuff and has a low cost. If you have level 2 defenses on every settlements though, these are rarely even needed.

If it's a main army, you want to give it at least one piece of artillery, to be able to siege settlements in one turn(instead of having to wait to build a ram). You also want to give it a fairly balanced range of units. General approximation of the army would be like 50% melee infantry, 25% ranged infantry, 25% cavalry/special units/siege. Your faction would change these numbers depending though, obviously you can't field 25% ranged infantry as VC, or as Dwarfs a higher % is probably better since they're so good at it.

If you don't like playing a lot of armies, you can instead decide to massively stack 1 or 2 armies with high tier units. This requires teching quickly in your buildings(for example you'd run more growth buildings in your capital instead of income, expanding quickly at first to get the income needed from other provinces, and then using a low tier defensive force until you're done teching up). These armies don't follow traditional balancing, this would for example be Karl Franz and his 19 steam tanks. These armies are stupidly strong, but obviously you lack mobility and flexibility if you only have one army, so you need to build smart around them. Defensive buildings everywhere is a must, slowly expanding. Also you'd want your lord to have Lightning Strike, to be able to pick his fight against other armies grouped together.

In terms of how to spec lords, other than Lightning Strike if you plan to focus on few armies, the generally best way to spec is to get the middle tree to buff your basic units. Now this has the downside of becoming useless later in the game quite often. If you buff your dwarf warriors via the tier 1 skill, by lategame you won't be fielding any warriors anymore and those 3 points don't do anything anymore. On the other hand, you get a massive benefit out of them early game since all your basic infantry is stronger than the enemy's(well unless they also speced into it but the AI does weird things). Exception to that is casters, as some do want spells first, as those will also benefit your army.

On casters, it's good to have one per army. Hire Heroes if you can't field a caster lord. Now pretty much all of them are useful to a point, however you want to focus on the buffing and debuffing spells. Damage spells are for the most part unimpressive, with the exception of the lore of death damage spells. Vortex spells look cool, but are often terrible in use. Also you pretty much never want to put 2points in a spell. It's only a small cooldown reduction for it, in pretty much every case the point is better used getting another spell even if you don't use often/at all, just in case.

On heroes, I'd recommend installing a mod to remove their offensive actions or massively tone them down, as they're extremely annoying otherwise. You want to hire a bunch to help you on the map. Hit buildings every turn to level them up if possible. If they critically fail an action, they'll be dead for a few turns but will come back. The best heroes for campaign map actions are the "spies" type. Witch Hunter/Banshee/Big Boss Gob, and to a lesser extent Engineers and Chaos Wizards. The first 3 have the exact same skill set(+15% assassination, reduced enemy hero action chances in the provinces, can block army, can destroy siege walls), Engineers have lower assassination chance but can destroy more walls and Chaos Wizards don't have the wall destruction but can still block armies.

Finally, on combat. Make extensive use of pausing if you're too slow at giving orders in real time. The general strategy is, get all your melee infantry in a long line, put them in a locked group(ctrl G or click the lock icon thing), then right click an enemy units. They'll all advance in line and attack the nearest unit. Double click to make them run, or select them and press R, but it'll reduce their vigour more so just walk until you're in artillery range. Put your cavalry in their own control groups and put them on the sides, so you can flank stuff. Make sure to run them ahead of the army on the sides, preferably in woods and stuff so they're hidden. You want to charge from the side or behind when your melee units start engaging the enemy. You also kinda want to micro them because you want to break out of melee after charging, so you can charge again, charge bonus is really what makes cav worth it. Use your ranged units to focus fire an enemy unit they all can shoot. If you're using guns, you can't fire at a unit that's directly behind one of your own, cause it'd hit your own units, so you need to position either on the high ground or flank them. Bow/Crossbow units don't have the same problem, although they might hit your units a bunch, but still should be fine. If the enemy has a lot of cavalry, they'll try to go for your artillery, leave a defensive units or two around your artillery, or withdraw your artillery if you can't defend it properly, better than losing it.
 
After finishing a 255 turn campaign, I wanted to mention a few things about the tactical AI that surprised and impressed me. All of these observations are from normal difficulty.

- The AI will aggressively and mercilessly pressure your flanks and rear lines. If the AI finds a weakness, it will bring more units to bear on that spot or opening. I don't remember the AI from previous TW titles doing this so competently on normal difficulty.

- If the AI has fast movers of any type, it will often times disguise flanking maneuvers until the last possible moment, and then sweep those units around for the attack. A lot of times the AI will manage flanking and rear attacks simultaneously, while also managing front line engagement. It's a fun challenge to keep up with all of that pressure on normal.

- Unlike previous TW games, the AI will actively work to deny you access to its flanks and rear. It's still not up to the caliber of a human player in protecting these areas, but it's so much better than earlier TW games where you could exploit flank harassment to win ridiculously outnumbered battles. At a minimum the AI will maneuver out a unit to be a speed bump to slow down flank pressure.

- The AI manages cavalry better in this game, constantly charging weak spots and then pulling them out to either charge again, or find another weak spot. It will rarely commit cavalry units to a prolonged stand still melee.

- If you don't find a way to pressure enemy ranged units, the AI will competently use them to whittle down lines and break morale. Thankfully it doesn't seem to focus fire too often with multiple ranged units on normal. The AI is still vulnerable to being focus fired itself.
Absolutely this. The Battle AI made such a huge leap with this game that it's almost unreal after all the other games in the last few years. It feels that CA finally managed to pull off what they promised before the release of Rome 2 years ago (and we know how that turned out).
The contrast to older games becomes all the more apparent if you played Shogun 2 a few weeks ago, where the AI gleefully suicides its cavalry and especially their general into your static spear lines almost every battle (which makes for hilariously easy wins), with the AI only being able to carry out basic flanking with heavy modding.

I mean just look at this screenshot, the AI moved its cavalry and flying forces to both flanks of my dwarf force, waited for the main body to arrive and then launched its attack from all three sides simultaneously, with the cavalry charging in and out of my flanks and the giant murder bats landing in the middle of my crossbowmen. That's been the first time in ages that I lost a battle in a TW game with me being at a slight disadvantage in the pre-battle calculation (which would have resulted in a narrow defeat in the autocalc with hard difficulty).
FA55DF4906C86DEB00127C0FD0890E3F2D0A06F8


In several other matches the AI continued to move its cavalry almost all the way behind me before attacking and its micro of ranged cavalry is rather insane, but not in a broken way.

Whoever was the AI lead for this game deserves a serious pad on the back.
 

Baalzebup

Member
Vampire Counts are very fun so far! I am slowly spreading vampiric corruption in the surrounding regions while having taken over the other vampire towns, crushing some orkz and dwarves as well.

Now I am changing all of skeletons out for grave guard and building a nice black knight cavalry army as well.

None shall stand before the mighty Vampires!

Get Mannfred or any other Vampire Lord on his Zombie Dragon mount and watch shit die. Give them a few Terrorgeist buddies to team up with, and they will kill anything. Also, Fate of Bjuna is godlike in killing units with high member counts.
 
Get Mannfred or any other Vampire Lord on his Zombie Dragon mount and watch shit die. Give them a few Terrorgeist buddies to team up with, and they will kill anything. Also, Fate of Bjuna is godlike in killing units with high member counts.

Man fuck that fucking dragon, so many times I've rolled up with 4 full stacks of units and even though the battle calc(balance of power) is completely yellow, as soon as I attack my army gets FUCKING WIPED. All of them. This is on Normal, I've pretty much avoided Carstein now and there seems to be a lot of infighting but they are getting strong again, fortunately Templehoff is still governed by little bitches, they keep falling down the ladder.
 

Diancecht

Member
I love Total War series but don't know much about Warhammer. I like the premise and general idea of Warhammer but never had a chance to really get into it. Can I have fun with this? Will I be able understand what's going on, lore wise? Or is it just for hardcore Warhammer fans?
 

frontovik

Banned
I'm more familiar with WH40K due to my exposure to the Dawn of War series, and had minimal understanding of Warhammer Fantasy, and I had lots of fun with Warhammer Total War.

The game doesn't delve too deep into the lore to become confusing for newcomers, but there are plenty of references to the lore for Warhammer followers. The game is essentially set during the end times of Warhammer fantasy, with the forces of Chaos under Archaon threatening to destroy everyone.

I think you'd like it.
 

Rygar 8 Bit

Jaguar 64-bit
I love Total War series but don't know much about Warhammer. I like the premise and general idea of Warhammer but never had a chance to really get into it. Can I have fun with this? Will I be able understand what's going on, lore wise? Or is it just for hardcore Warhammer fans?

if you never learned anything about warhammer its super easy to get into chaos and orcs want to destroy everyone and everyone else is like "what no" and then fights happen game by itself is by far worth it its the best total war ive played in a long long time
 

Diancecht

Member
if you never learned anything about warhammer its super easy to get into chaos and orcs want to destroy everyone and everyone else is like "what no" and then fights happen game by itself is by far worth it its the best total war ive played in a long long time

Oh cool! Guess I'll be picking it up.
 
You know I haven't loved a Total War game this much since Medieval Total War, Shogun 2 gets close but I love the setting and time period plus Fall of The Samurai(which I've played for like 30 turns) is fucking awesome.

That said everything about this game is way better, one thing I absolutely love is the strategic layer on mouse scroll up.
 

Giran

Member
Never have my armies/lords/cities felt so unique to me

Yeah, and I really wish they'd double down on this. My first campaign was vampires starting with Mannfred and I was pleasantly surprised there was a little introduction telling you who you are, that Templehof wronged you, and that you need to push their shit in. But then the actual quests for the legendary items were pretty underwhelming aside from the unique battles at the end, and outside of the final Chaos invasion there weren't any other setpieces at all, not even when the second legendary lord joins the fray or when you eliminate your nemesis or win the campaign. In fact, even the grand Chaos invasion could use more context. I was just looking at that funny bird and while I figured it's a big deal, he was nowhere near as menacing as it was supposed to be after having read about what it actually is, because all you know from normally playing is that "Archaon united the clans and this is dangerous."

I'm not expecting a full story mode here, but just a little more effort for flavor.
 

Lorcain

Member
I mean just look at this screenshot, the AI moved its cavalry and flying forces to both flanks of my dwarf force, waited for the main body to arrive and then launched its attack from all three sides simultaneously, with the cavalry charging in and out of my flanks and the giant murder bats landing in the middle of my crossbowmen. That's been the first time in ages that I lost a battle in a TW game with me being at a slight disadvantage in the pre-battle calculation (which would have resulted in a narrow defeat in the autocalc with hard difficulty).
FA55DF4906C86DEB00127C0FD0890E3F2D0A06F8


In several other matches the AI continued to move its cavalry almost all the way behind me before attacking and its micro of ranged cavalry is rather insane, but not in a broken way.

Whoever was the AI lead for this game deserves a serious pad on the back.
I know that image well. That picture sums up the main tactical challenge of fielding a dwarf army. You will get flanked almost every battle. I experimented with large army box formations with decent success, putting ranged in the center. It's a little tedious setting that up in the deployment phase since there are no formations beyond missile front (on line) and melee front (on line). But it works pretty well.

I was intercepted by 3 armies in the Underway and had to resort to a large box formation made up of Ironbreakers along the perimeter of the square, and quarrelers in the middle focus firing. The Ironbreakers did what they were supposed to do, never break. That's how I unlocked the 10 to 1 achievement. Just have to remember to put everyone on guard so they don't pursue.

While I was trying out different box formations, I learned the hard way that you can't get too creative right clicking ranged units into crazy formation shapes. They actually need to have the space to get into a firing formation similar to their default formation, or they won't fire effectively. I was trying crazy stuff like compacting thunderers into tight boxes within the larger formation box.
 
Yeah, and I really wish they'd double down on this. My first campaign was vampires starting with Mannfred and I was pleasantly surprised there was a little introduction telling you who you are, that Templehof wronged you, and that you need to push their shit in. But then the actual quests for the legendary items were pretty underwhelming aside from the unique battles at the end, and outside of the final Chaos invasion there weren't any other setpieces at all, not even when the second legendary lord joins the fray or when you eliminate your nemesis or win the campaign. In fact, even the grand Chaos invasion could use more context. I was just looking at that funny bird and while I figured it's a big deal, he was nowhere near as menacing as it was supposed to be after having read about what it actually is, because all you know from normally playing is that "Archaon united the clans and this is dangerous."

I'm not expecting a full story mode here, but just a little more effort for flavor.

I can certainly understand what you feel, but as a whole Total War has pretty much been the same throughout: Some flavor text, maybe a couple intros and outros, but most of the "story" is experienced through gameplay on the campaign and battle map.

I'm not saying it doesn't need to improve, but one of the things I've always enjoyed about these games is the minimalistic way a lot of that is presented.
 
I know that image well. That picture sums up the main tactical challenge of fielding a dwarf army. You will get flanked almost every battle. I experimented with large army box formations with decent success, putting ranged in the center. It's a little tedious setting that up in the deployment phase since there are no formations beyond missile front (on line) and melee front (on line). But it works pretty well.

I was intercepted by 3 armies in the Underway and had to resort to a large box formation made up of Ironbreakers along the perimeter of the square, and quarrelers in the middle focus firing. The Ironbreakers did what they were supposed to do, never break. That's how I unlocked the 10 to 1 achievement. Just have to remember to put everyone on guard so they don't pursue.

While I was trying out different box formations, I learned the hard way that you can't get too creative right clicking ranged units into crazy formation shapes. They actually need to have the space to get into a firing formation similar to their default formation, or they won't fire effectively. I was trying crazy stuff like compacting thunderers into tight boxes within the larger formation box.
Hah, I feel you.

What helps IMO is getting one solid, single front line of shield units, preferably Ironbreakers and Longbeards (always take two or three, even in late game doomstacks, their staying power and buff is just that good), with a rather wide width (3-3 1/2, max 4 files/rows), shielded dwarfs have great armor and staying power, especially with the +12 melee attk/def lord upgrade, and don't really profit from long files, so use that.

That should mean that only cavalry and flying units get to flank you, unless you are terribly outnumbered. I use two great axe units on each flank, behind the front line and next to my quarellers (or rather their fallback position if there is no handy hill or slope around that allows for them to shoot over the heads of the front dwarfs straight away), Miners in the early game, then GA Warriors (who have better stats than GA Longbeards while being cheaper, ironically) and later Hammerers (though they are absolute priority targets for the AI's artillery, beware). In lieu of spearmen, Great Weapons are the best thing that dwarfs have against cavalry charges and for keeping the flanks save, particularly against heavily armoured late game cav. and monstrous flying thingies. Use them to intercept cavalry and anyone else who tries to flank when they charged into your lines. Miners are slightly faster than other dwarfs (besides Slayers), have armour-piercing and are expandable and can be aggressively used for intercepting and charging into cavalry for good effect.

Another thing I prefer to do is only having two Quareller units with shields, one on each flank (of the Quareller line), and the rest with great weapons. While not as good as Great Weapon Warriors, you want the extra damage and especially armor-piercing if they actually need to reinforce the front line and they are much, much better at dealing with anything big or armoured attacking them in the back rows (which, well, will be almost everytthing they'd have problems fighting back). If anything lightly armoured tries to flank you, just focus fire it with your quarellers and it will be dead very, very soon.

As far as deployment goes, always try to find a hill or mountain to place your army on top of, with your artillery (particularly direct line-of-sight firing cannons) and Thunderer's on top. Even a ridge might mean that you won't have to place those units in the front of your melee line and they will be able to keep pounding throughout the battle. Quarellers are fine camping behind your meele line at the same height though when the melee starts, they fire in an arc and you won't have friendly fire problems if you fire at targets at the opposite side of the combat line rather than targets directly in front of them, elevated positions are still preferable though.
If you are fighting seriously bad odds, move your whole army into a map corner, preferably with lots of flat open ground in front of it so you still get to use your ranged units, which will give the enemy 0 options to flank you.
 

Giran

Member
Yeah, it's been mostly the same throughout. But now you control unkillable legendary generals who can go on quests and have a fairly rich fantasy lore that I imagine most players didn't learn about in school and through various other popular media so that's why it would make sense to me to expand on it.

And I completely agree it should all be optional and not overbearing in the first place. It's not as if I dislike the way things are now, I had a blast in my three campaigns so far, it's just that I'd consider that an improvement and a logical area of focus with this setting.
 

Stiler

Member
The one thing I think this game could use more of is a strong narrative focus for each faction/hero.

If anyone here played the Myth games then you know what I'm talking about. Don't even need to have "cinematics" or anything huge, just have introductions for chapters/people that are narrated and have some paintings and things to draw you into the story elements.

If you don't know what I'm talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77MbpqZew-A

That kind of thing, would really help the warhammer narrative imo if they had such things for majory story beats and an overall storyline for the factions and it wouldn't be something super-expensive or elaborate to do either.
 
Yeah, it's been mostly the same throughout. But now you control unkillable legendary generals who can go on quests and have a fairly rich fantasy lore that I imagine most players didn't learn about in school and through various other popular media so that's why it would make sense to me to expand on it.

And I completely agree it should all be optional and not overbearing in the first place. It's not as if I dislike the way things are now, I had a blast in my three campaigns so far, it's just that I'd consider that an improvement and a logical area of focus with this setting.

I do think they could have added a bit more story, and especially a cutscene at the end, considering they already had cutscenes for each races and such. Chaos actually gets another cutscene in fact, that also explains the "bird".

It wasn't a big deal but it felt like something they maybe didn't have time to finish or something, since it felt a bit out of place to have all these starting cutscenes and then no cutscene at the end(even a general one size fits all ending, not necessarily per race).

The quests were fine though, they all had intros that explained the fight a bit, and some were more detailed than others(like on karl franz or ungrim quests there's bits of story where you can pick your next fight and such, but others are very much just go deploy a guy, oh you found a legendary item, go do this fight). Sigvald's Silverslash quest is also quite memorable, both because of the intro and because the fight is hard as shit unless you really field top tier units.

So yeah I think it could have been done better in some aspects, but it was pretty good.
 

Rizzi

Member
That's quite a vague question.

General tips would be, expand slowly after securing your positions.

Every province, you want to build the income generating buildings, one or two growth building(in the entire province, not per region, you look for the regions that don't have 2 income based buildings like the ones that generate income+tradeable ressources), you turn on the growth commandment to help, and eventually as your 3rd building in every region but the capital, you put walls to make it easy to defend even if you're not here. For the income buildings, you want to upgrade them early. They take a while to pay off for the upgrade costs, so the earliest the better. Growth buildings on the other hand, in some cases aren't worth upgrading, depends on your plans.

Plan your army buildings. Anything that doesn't go higher than tier3, you probably want to put in the minor settlements in your main province instead of in your capital. That's cause you want to put as many of the tier4/5buildings in your capital, since that's the only place you can build them.

If there's a lot of buildings for armies, you want to make use of 2 different adjacent provinces. For example if you play Empire, you'd want to put Artillery and gun stuff in Nuln, while you put Cavalry in Altdorf and infantry stuff in one of the minor settlements around Altdorf(cause the infantry building caps at tier3 so no need to take place in Altdorf). You could also put Cav in Middenlands, but I find it's a bit exposed since it's so far north. Or you could put stuff in Marienburg since it's close but have to remember that one slot is dedicated to the port stuff.

Adjacent provinces to your starting one also often have special buildings for a specific unit(Nuln for Artillery, Middenlands for Cavalry in the empire example but it's similar with other races, Western Sylvania has beast building and the province north has skeleton building), so once you see that you might want to change your plans down the road.

But basically, you want a plan on how you're going to build the core of your empire, where you get all your tech buildings. Any military support building has to be built in the same province as military recruitement buildings for the units using it, so it's worth spending a few minutes figuring out how you're going to get your buildings at the start.

When building an army, there's a few things you want to consider.

If it's a defensive army, meant to stay garrisonned in defense to protect one of your fronts, then lower tier units suffice, since they'll fight with the garrison(do think of upgrading the garrisons though on these fronts). For example, a lord, 14-16basic melee infantry(skeletons, swordsmen, orcboys, warriors etc), and a bit of stronger units, ranged if available, is enough to defend most stuff and has a low cost. If you have level 2 defenses on every settlements though, these are rarely even needed.

If it's a main army, you want to give it at least one piece of artillery, to be able to siege settlements in one turn(instead of having to wait to build a ram). You also want to give it a fairly balanced range of units. General approximation of the army would be like 50% melee infantry, 25% ranged infantry, 25% cavalry/special units/siege. Your faction would change these numbers depending though, obviously you can't field 25% ranged infantry as VC, or as Dwarfs a higher % is probably better since they're so good at it.

If you don't like playing a lot of armies, you can instead decide to massively stack 1 or 2 armies with high tier units. This requires teching quickly in your buildings(for example you'd run more growth buildings in your capital instead of income, expanding quickly at first to get the income needed from other provinces, and then using a low tier defensive force until you're done teching up). These armies don't follow traditional balancing, this would for example be Karl Franz and his 19 steam tanks. These armies are stupidly strong, but obviously you lack mobility and flexibility if you only have one army, so you need to build smart around them. Defensive buildings everywhere is a must, slowly expanding. Also you'd want your lord to have Lightning Strike, to be able to pick his fight against other armies grouped together.

In terms of how to spec lords, other than Lightning Strike if you plan to focus on few armies, the generally best way to spec is to get the middle tree to buff your basic units. Now this has the downside of becoming useless later in the game quite often. If you buff your dwarf warriors via the tier 1 skill, by lategame you won't be fielding any warriors anymore and those 3 points don't do anything anymore. On the other hand, you get a massive benefit out of them early game since all your basic infantry is stronger than the enemy's(well unless they also speced into it but the AI does weird things). Exception to that is casters, as some do want spells first, as those will also benefit your army.

On casters, it's good to have one per army. Hire Heroes if you can't field a caster lord. Now pretty much all of them are useful to a point, however you want to focus on the buffing and debuffing spells. Damage spells are for the most part unimpressive, with the exception of the lore of death damage spells. Vortex spells look cool, but are often terrible in use. Also you pretty much never want to put 2points in a spell. It's only a small cooldown reduction for it, in pretty much every case the point is better used getting another spell even if you don't use often/at all, just in case.

On heroes, I'd recommend installing a mod to remove their offensive actions or massively tone them down, as they're extremely annoying otherwise. You want to hire a bunch to help you on the map. Hit buildings every turn to level them up if possible. If they critically fail an action, they'll be dead for a few turns but will come back. The best heroes for campaign map actions are the "spies" type. Witch Hunter/Banshee/Big Boss Gob, and to a lesser extent Engineers and Chaos Wizards. The first 3 have the exact same skill set(+15% assassination, reduced enemy hero action chances in the provinces, can block army, can destroy siege walls), Engineers have lower assassination chance but can destroy more walls and Chaos Wizards don't have the wall destruction but can still block armies.

Finally, on combat. Make extensive use of pausing if you're too slow at giving orders in real time. The general strategy is, get all your melee infantry in a long line, put them in a locked group(ctrl G or click the lock icon thing), then right click an enemy units. They'll all advance in line and attack the nearest unit. Double click to make them run, or select them and press R, but it'll reduce their vigour more so just walk until you're in artillery range. Put your cavalry in their own control groups and put them on the sides, so you can flank stuff. Make sure to run them ahead of the army on the sides, preferably in woods and stuff so they're hidden. You want to charge from the side or behind when your melee units start engaging the enemy. You also kinda want to micro them because you want to break out of melee after charging, so you can charge again, charge bonus is really what makes cav worth it. Use your ranged units to focus fire an enemy unit they all can shoot. If you're using guns, you can't fire at a unit that's directly behind one of your own, cause it'd hit your own units, so you need to position either on the high ground or flank them. Bow/Crossbow units don't have the same problem, although they might hit your units a bunch, but still should be fine. If the enemy has a lot of cavalry, they'll try to go for your artillery, leave a defensive units or two around your artillery, or withdraw your artillery if you can't defend it properly, better than losing it.

Thanks! It's mostly just the world map stuff that I'm bad at managing. I'm pretty terrible at it so this seems super useful.
 
Yeah, it's been mostly the same throughout. But now you control unkillable legendary generals who can go on quests and have a fairly rich fantasy lore that I imagine most players didn't learn about in school and through various other popular media so that's why it would make sense to me to expand on it.

And I completely agree it should all be optional and not overbearing in the first place. It's not as if I dislike the way things are now, I had a blast in my three campaigns so far, it's just that I'd consider that an improvement and a logical area of focus with this setting.

Oh cool man, yeah I totally got that from you I was just stating my opinion as a long time player. :p Sounds like you are a long time player too. :) Makes me happy that we still get games like this because there was a time I was worried that eventually TW would die out.

But to see it going so strong, especially after a couple missteps(Attila and Rome 2 I am looking at you...even though Rome 2 is a much better game now post Emperor Edition), okayish sequels(Medieval II, Empire/Napoleon).

Honestly it goes for me like this:

1. Total Warhammer = Total War Medieval

2. Shogun 2+FOTS

God I hope the next total war game is a warhammer 40k game. THE JUSTICE THEY COULD DO TO THE SERIES. My God.
 

Giran

Member
Yeah, I started with the first Shogun. I'm really happy with Warhammer too. And to think it will have like 16 major and probably several minor playable factions, with two more large campaigns, and the three combinable into one full map. This game will be all kinds of amazing when it's finalized.
 
By golly those early game VC armies are a nightmare.

My Dwarf 17/3 hero army got hit by 4 VC armies - 2 full stacks of zombies and skeletons, a 3/4 stack of the same, and one last guy who had some crypt ghouls bats.

I ended up losing in a 'close defeat': 450 losses for me out of approx 950, 3000+ for him out of something crazy like 5000 or 6000.
 

4Tran

Member
I've taken a break from my Vampire campaign to give the Dwarfs a spin. This might be the first faction in Total War that's devoid of cavalry since the Aztecs in Medieval 2. They're surprisingly effective though once you get past the inability to run down the enemy (or to chase, or even to flank meaningfully).

What seems to be the most effective in the early game is to go with three main lines of troops: axe and shield infantry to absorb enemy charges, great weapon infantry behind them to counterattack enemy charges, and Quarrellers at the back to shoot up enemy archers and cavalry. The early going was a bit tough with all the backtracking to take care of Orc incursions into the rear areas, but it's been really easy after I destroyed the main Greenskin and Top Knotz armies. Even sieges are pretty simple because Miners will wreck gates with no problem and Quarrellers are so good at clearing the walls.

The biggest question seems to be whether it's worth it to get upgraded units before Chaos shows up. I've been able to get Thunderers for a while now, but I like Quarrellers so much that I've held off on using them. I don't even have any artillery aside from Thorgrim's starting Grudgethrower. The other problem is that I didn't know that there was a Quest to ally with Wissenland until I'd built up the Great Power diplomatic penalty to -20. I'll have to go to war with Wissenland's enemy just to butter them up.

Thanks! It's mostly just the world map stuff that I'm bad at managing. I'm pretty terrible at it so this seems super useful.
The AI is going to be better at getting the most out of movement than a human player, so I think that the key here is to use and abuse stances. If you run your armies chasing after enemies just for them to run away, then what you need to do is to use the Ambush stance to bait them to your seemingly defenseless settlements. I've also had some luck using the Dwarfs' Underground stance to trick a fleeing army into intercepting me.

Other than that, make sure that you advance conservatively, and with a backup army to guard your rear areas. I've taken to building fortifications in most of my settlements. If enemy agents are giving you headaches, you can build up your own Heroes by embedding them in your armies and they'll pick up tons of experience on the battlefield. Alternatively, you can just mod out most hostile agent actions.
 

trembli0s

Member
Played 2 rounds as dwarves. Avoid expanding south too fast and, at all costs, make sure you wreck every single Orc assassin early in the game or you will pay for it dearly later on.

Quarellers almost seem too OP to start
 

Lorcain

Member
The biggest question seems to be whether it's worth it to get upgraded units before Chaos shows up. I've been able to get Thunderers for a while now, but I like Quarrellers so much that I've held off on using them.
I prefer Quarrellers because they're more flexible in their firing angles and placement than Thunderers. Focus firing Quarrellers still works well on late game units too.

They have good artillery options too, I wouldn't sleep on those upgrades. Dwarf armies need all the ranged firepower they can get since they can't chase anyone down.
 

4Tran

Member
I prefer Quarrellers because they're more flexible in their firing angles and placement than Thunderers. Focus firing Quarrellers still works well on late game units too.

They have good artillery options too, I wouldn't sleep on those upgrades. Dwarf armies need all the ranged firepower they can get since they can't chase anyone down.
Oh, I fully intend to add more advanced units. I just haven't had to use them, and I probably won't until after I wipe out all the Orcs off the map. By turn 60, there are only 3 Orc factions left in the East and all of their big armies have already been crushed. The Thorgrim blitzkrieg hit them so hard that they didn't even manage to pull a single Waagh off.
 
3 campaigns finished now.

Empire (153 turns) - A nice campaign that started with a war with successionists and then some of the dwarfs in the west (karak norn?). Then i moved up and east fighting men and then chaos. Once chaos was killed I gained alliance with bretonnian states and then took on the vampire counts while holding off nordland states.

Dwarfs (157 turns) - A campaign that can go one of two ways, either you stop the greenskins expansion or you dont. If you dont you are f***ed and you have to start over. If you do then it's just a matter of killing all the greenskins one by one , taking out wagghhs as often and as quick as possible. When stopping the greenskin expansion it's a good idea to raze crappy cities, forcing the greenskin armies to re-occupy them which will severly weaken the army for an easy kill. Also very important to learn which provencies and cities have gold mines and diamond mines, getting money quickly to pay for armies is the key to stopping greenskins. Then after that it's just a matter of confederating with other dwarfs, heading north to the mountains in nordland and killing chaos.

Greenskins (161 turns) - Probably my favourite campaign upto now. With waaghs you have so much momentum and your plan is to just keep moving and attacking, although keeping obedience (public order) will be your biggest problem. Not too much advice outside of that. I killed in this order greenskins->dwarfs->border princes->chaos->bretonnia states->empire. Also one of the goals being to kill the empire is a great addition that makes you feel like a wave of waagh and has destroyed any doubts i had about not being able to take all settlements.

Next I think im gonna try vampire counts.

Oh jeez, just finished the vampire counts campaign.

357 turns.

My god it was a tiring (but fun) campaign. My first plan was to head north taking all the lands that the chaos plundered, building up a force with the sole purpose of defeating the 4 chaos lords when they came. After that I defeated all of the nordland tribes in a long campaign. Then i focused on empire while holding 5 different fronts.
My advice for this campaign is to deal with the dwarfs earlier than I did, by the time I got to them they had the entire southern part of the map and fighting them was tiring as i had to turn back to recover since my men were dying due to lack of vampiric corruption.

Now onto chaos.
 

Granjinha

Member
Man, this game is fucking amazing. It's been so long i actually played a Total War campaign. I'm loving it.

I'm dwarf, btw. Loving the faction.
 
The Vampire Counts can be pretty tricky to face. They aren't too bad when it's just skeletons, but graveguard (heavy infantry) are very nasty, since they don't rout and have enough HP to keep fighting for ages during 'disintegration'.

Compared to fighting other races, the vampire counts will kill you with meatgringing attrition.
Crossbows have been very useful (shoot diagonally into the battle line to get a good arc that avoids friendly fire).
Using cavarly to constantly charge and retreat is the best way to finish them off.
Using AoE wizard buffs on the 'meatgrinder' blob is very powerful.

I've foolishly rushed them, thinking I'd better eliminate them before they have time to rebuild. I'm now having to race all my agents and generals into the conquered territory and panic-build taverns to stop a bunch of rebellions due to the vampiric corruption.

Imperial wizards need a serious rebalance. The vortex and bombardment spells are pathetic. The starter-spell fireballs and magic missiles are way better than the top tier AoE attacks. The buffs are very unbalanced, some being much more powerful than others.
"Flamestorm" is pretty much "this is fine.gif", except that the dog is actually right.

Lastly, I want to give a tip for using the Emperor.
You'll be tempted to give him your top-tier army full of exotic units, since he's the Emperor.
IMO, he's much better as your mid-tier general, while Balthasar takes the super elite guys.
The Emperor has a lot of morale-based skills and the middle-line upgrades contain some very powerful buffs for regular troops (spear/sword/halberd/knights). He can turn an average army into a great one.
His Deathclaw Gryphon makes him a good fighter, even if you ignore the fighting skill tree. It can charge and knockdown any infantry unit that is giving you trouble on the front line, and it has a leadership debuff AoE skill. Combined, they can turn the tide of an infantry clash.
The super-elite units don't really need a great general, since they have high leadership.
Alternatively, if you want the Emperor to be your elite leader, give the army-buffs to a regular general and instead race for lightning strike. This could make the early game a bit tricky though.
 

Stevey

Member
I feel like I've missed out as in my dwarf campaign I didnt fight the Vampire Counts, the Empire wiped them out before I got to them.
 

Palmer_v1

Member
I feel like I've missed out as in my dwarf campaign I didnt fight the Vampire Counts, the Empire wiped them out before I got to them.

Sorta the same. I'm near turn 100 of a VC game, and Chaos is pretty much obliterated so I doubt I'll need to fight them. Greenskins are also staying out of my way, so aside from the special missions where you fight them to unlock your weapon and armor, I may finish this campaign having only fought other Vampires, Empire stuff, and Dwarves.
 

Alric

Member
The one thing I think this game could use more of is a strong narrative focus for each faction/hero.

If anyone here played the Myth games then you know what I'm talking about. Don't even need to have "cinematics" or anything huge, just have introductions for chapters/people that are narrated and have some paintings and things to draw you into the story elements.

If you don't know what I'm talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77MbpqZew-A

That kind of thing, would really help the warhammer narrative imo if they had such things for majory story beats and an overall storyline for the factions and it wouldn't be something super-expensive or elaborate to do either.

Did someone say "Myth", I am here. Myth had such a fantastic narrative, heavily inspired on the Glenn Cook books "Chronicles of the Black Company". So I agree, it couldn't hurt at all to have an bit of extra to pull you into the world and characters.
 
Well, I lost track of which turn it was but my huge almost WW1 esque series of treaties with other countries actually did the opposite thing and saved my ass a couple times and managed to kill off several hostile factions including Chaos.

That said the fucking viking dudes in this are just ridiculous, I mean fuck they razed like most of the central map.

I managed to build a huge regiment of steam tanks and mid/high tier troops and artillery by the ass load.

Man artillery is so overpowered. I wrecked the vampire counts so bad they kept asking for peace and giving me money, then I'd just line my troops up on the next settlement, declare war, sack it, wait a turn, destroy it, agree to peace and proceed to ask for all their treasury.... and it works.

Eventually though fighting so many battles and being in a corrupted land took its toll, and after what seemed like endless battles for a bit, my armies fell and I had to reconsolidate my military and financial power. Which I've been investing in a lot of infrastructure and things that bring in income. After a few turns I was able to pump out a few more armies with even more steam tanks.

Did I mention I fucking love steam tanks and artillery? I really like it.
 

Klyka

Banned
Can someone answer a question about cavalry for me:

If I tell them to just ride through an enemy unit, will they take increased damage? Will they still charge through them and deal damage?

Or do I have to doubleclick the enemy for a proper charge and then have the cavalry turn 180° around so not to take damage?
 
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