This isn't in some back alley chop shop. The surgeon I'm with basically pioneered modern techniques that are in use the world over, I appreciate your concern but I will be fine.
Whoa, you are getting FFS? Good luck, not that you'll need it!!
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Transgaf: 'cause boys will be girls (and vice versa)
- Thread starter lexi
- Start date
Whoa, you are getting FFS? Good luck, not that you'll need it!!
Princess Viola
Member
I know what FFS is, but what does it actually stand for?
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Facial Feminization Surgery
Princess Viola
Member
Ah, thanks. Wasn't exactly sure what the second F stood for.
This isn't in some back alley chop shop. The surgeon I'm with basically pioneered modern techniques that are in use the world over, I appreciate your concern but I will be fine.
You don't understand. That's exactly what it is. You're an ignorant person with regard to medical procedures. You can't look at your x-ray and determine if you need a metal plate. There's no liability for these doctors as you will never sue them. Even if you did, the doctor would just pay off the courts and you'd lose.
Getting FFS is fine. This doctor probably does a good job and that's why you picked him. However, it does not mean he's not a scumbag. It just means no one has realized he is.
I used to do medical research and Asia (with the exception of South Korea and Japan), especially countries like China and Thailand where there's a lot of corruption, has very high numbers of unnecessary surgeries.
Getting a metal plate won't hurt you, but I can almost guarantee you you didn't need it. You made a mistake and are frankly foolish for trusting a doctor with almost no liability who you've never met to make such a huge decision for you.
Brian Griffin
Member
I know you are trying to be helpful but you are presuming to know a great deal about how crappy her doctor is with basically zero evidence to back it up. I'm sure Lexi has done her homework and is aware of the risks involved.
Here's what I was referring to. The white paper PDF goes into further detail. Forgot to respond to this when I returned.
randomhugs
Member
*hugs*
Brian Griffin
Member
icwatudidthar
Don't worry, I face this attitude a lot from people. Thailand is a 3rd world country, everybody is out to get you, and other paranoid feelings -- which are certainly justified in some instances, but not mine.
I have done my research and I am well informed of every decision I've made. On that note, in scrubs atm and mere hours (if even that) away from being put under. See ya'll later!
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
*crosses fingers* I wish you luck!
Brian Griffin
Member
I wish you lots of luck that is good!
Lexi can't do her homework. There's not a database for corrupt doctors in Thailand. Pro tip: They're all corrupt. Every single one.
I'm sure this doctor is very good at plastic surgery. If people say he's one of the best he probably is - you can easily judge whether someone does plastic surgery well or not based on how the patients look when they're done. I do not doubt that he is capable of putting it in correctly in the event a patient does need one. What I do doubt is his ability to diagnose the issue, and his integrity.
Please inform me how many opinions of this doctor you have read, written by other doctors, discussing your doctor's ability to diagnose problems and remedy them in the easiest way possible. Why can't you do this? Because this doesn't exist.
This guy is absolutely scamming you. Anyone who's worked in the medical industry can tell you that. You have no clue how often doctors prescribe a treatment that is medically unnecessary. You need to be seeing seriously good doctors to avoid this. In Thailand you will not find such a doctor.
You're talking about a doctor who specializes in plastic surgery and suddenly he knows it all with respect to whether your skull is too thin. Sure, maybe he does know. But WHY would you not get a second opinion. Hell, you could have at least gone to a different hospital in your city and asked them. It's absolutely insane to not get a second opinion on such a serious and life-changing surgery.
Girl, I wish you luck with everything, but you've made one of the biggest mistakes in your life. I hope you got lucky and you did need it. Most likely you paid more, have far more pain, and are inconvenienced for life due to your ignorance and ill-founded trust in a doctor you've read reviews of on the internet.
I'm sure this doctor is very good at plastic surgery. If people say he's one of the best he probably is - you can easily judge whether someone does plastic surgery well or not based on how the patients look when they're done. I do not doubt that he is capable of putting it in correctly in the event a patient does need one. What I do doubt is his ability to diagnose the issue, and his integrity.
Please inform me how many opinions of this doctor you have read, written by other doctors, discussing your doctor's ability to diagnose problems and remedy them in the easiest way possible. Why can't you do this? Because this doesn't exist.
This guy is absolutely scamming you. Anyone who's worked in the medical industry can tell you that. You have no clue how often doctors prescribe a treatment that is medically unnecessary. You need to be seeing seriously good doctors to avoid this. In Thailand you will not find such a doctor.
You're talking about a doctor who specializes in plastic surgery and suddenly he knows it all with respect to whether your skull is too thin. Sure, maybe he does know. But WHY would you not get a second opinion. Hell, you could have at least gone to a different hospital in your city and asked them. It's absolutely insane to not get a second opinion on such a serious and life-changing surgery.
Girl, I wish you luck with everything, but you've made one of the biggest mistakes in your life. I hope you got lucky and you did need it. Most likely you paid more, have far more pain, and are inconvenienced for life due to your ignorance and ill-founded trust in a doctor you've read reviews of on the internet.
Get out, bro. Take that somewhere else. You don't need to come in here and tell people they've made the mistake of their lives because they're ignorant and incapable of making informed choices. Say you wish her the best, and get out.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Good edit. I thought for sure you would be a goner, even though it was justified.
Why? I want her to come to her senses before she doesn't something extremely dumb. I'm sorry if you have some trust in lexi's ability to research her doctors, but when it's impossible I don't think she could have feasibly done a good enough job. You'd need medical knowledge and specific knowledge about that doctor lexi could not possibly have under any circumstances.
If I'm coming off as rude or aggressive, I'm sorry. I don't want to put her down. I just don't want her to make a massive mistake because she's ignorant about a topic. Not everyone can know everything, even if they try.
If you disagree and think I'm overreacting, please show me some kind of information, any kind, which actually goes even slightly to the positive credibility of these doctors to do this. Or even just a document from a respectable medical source which states that undergoing MAJOR surgery on the spur of the moment based on one opinion of one xray is a good idea when you have time to get second opinions.
EDIT: Oh, and I do wish her the best. I really do. That's why I'm here posting this. If I didn't care I'd have wished her the best and left her to her own mistakes. When I know she's making a mistake and I don't tell her - that's being an asshole. What kind of person would I be if I let her make such a mistake? Certainly not one anyone should want to be. I know what I'm talking about here. You obviously don't. Don't judge what I'm saying. Ignorance is not an insult. Everyone is ignorant about something.
If I'm coming off as rude or aggressive, I'm sorry. I don't want to put her down. I just don't want her to make a massive mistake because she's ignorant about a topic. Not everyone can know everything, even if they try.
If you disagree and think I'm overreacting, please show me some kind of information, any kind, which actually goes even slightly to the positive credibility of these doctors to do this. Or even just a document from a respectable medical source which states that undergoing MAJOR surgery on the spur of the moment based on one opinion of one xray is a good idea when you have time to get second opinions.
EDIT: Oh, and I do wish her the best. I really do. That's why I'm here posting this. If I didn't care I'd have wished her the best and left her to her own mistakes. When I know she's making a mistake and I don't tell her - that's being an asshole. What kind of person would I be if I let her make such a mistake? Certainly not one anyone should want to be. I know what I'm talking about here. You obviously don't. Don't judge what I'm saying. Ignorance is not an insult. Everyone is ignorant about something.
Dr.Palutena
Member
I'm sure she should trust the word of some condescending poster, speaking in absolutes and providing little to no back up on their claims, than the info and knowledge she's accumulated before taking this venture.
You are obviously not posting in her best interest. She clearly states above that her surgeries were mere hours ago, YESTERDAY. It's long past the point of her seeing this or responding any differently. Which to me reads that you're just posting here to discourage OTHER people from considering this surgery in the future, which is completely disingenuous.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Good luck to you lexi!
Out of medical curiosity, where exactly is that metal plate going?
I can't think of a place on your skull one would normally do FFS.
Out of medical curiosity, where exactly is that metal plate going?
I can't think of a place on your skull one would normally do FFS.
Um. I don't have a problem with FFS. Plastic surgery is a dime a dozen and you can tell when someone does a good job. I think it's wonderful that transgendered girls can get surgery that actually works and helps them to feel better about themselves. It's a great thing.
My specific issue is her getting a metal plate grafted into her head on the word of a doctor with a 99% likelihood of corruption.
And I keep it up because I'm hoping they won't have done it all at once and she might still have time to change her mind on that one. I'll let it rest once she lets us know what actually happened. If I sound rude, it's because I'm kind of panicky. I'm a nice person and I do not want bad things to happen to people.
As for evidence, no I don't have copies of medical journals I read two years ago. A quick Google doesn't turn up with anything specifically medically related, but you can get about 100 sources in 10 minutes, all within the past two years, which state that Thailand is a cesspool of corruption. If you think the medical field is a virgin in that environment, you're insane.
My specific issue is her getting a metal plate grafted into her head on the word of a doctor with a 99% likelihood of corruption.
And I keep it up because I'm hoping they won't have done it all at once and she might still have time to change her mind on that one. I'll let it rest once she lets us know what actually happened. If I sound rude, it's because I'm kind of panicky. I'm a nice person and I do not want bad things to happen to people.
As for evidence, no I don't have copies of medical journals I read two years ago. A quick Google doesn't turn up with anything specifically medically related, but you can get about 100 sources in 10 minutes, all within the past two years, which state that Thailand is a cesspool of corruption. If you think the medical field is a virgin in that environment, you're insane.
Devolution
Member
So you posted in here just to call her out even though it was a warranted reaction?
I hope it all went well btw Lexi.
Nobody owes you a defense of their own medical decisions, especially not trans people given your stated beliefs in other threads - which makes your spiel about not being an asshole laughable. I can guarantee that lexi knows more about FFS than you do, and has fully vetted her surgeon. You've already voiced your concern, and she's answered you. That's all that needs to happen.
ReBurn
Gold Member
I didn't call anyone out. Huh?
Devolution
Member
I misread lol. Anyway, I wanted to ask transgaf a question which is why I originally came in here. What was the average age of the beginning of your transitions and how old are you now? If you decline to answer that's cool.
You show me your statistics! Your claim is quite frankly incredible. That *ALL* Thai doctors are corrupt or incompetent without exception would indicate that a systemic problem exists in Thailand that is literally unheard of anywhere else (including China, where I've actually lived, and have had the pleasure of actually visiting the hospitals in).
Frankly, the only way that I can see you possibly holding your beliefs is some sort of deeply ingrained racist view about Thai or asian people in general.
You really think she researched whether this doctor was qualified to perform extremely invasive surgery when all she wants is plastic surgery? I doubt it. I wouldn't. Why would you if you weren't planning on getting anything done other than plastic surgery?
No, she researched his ability to do FFS. I will gladly trust her assessment there. There's literally no way to even tell if this doctor is corrupt or not. The ONLY people giving reviews are going to be those who are not doctors and don't have the requisite knowledge to do anything but trust that what the doctor says were correct.
They can review the quality of his work, but not the diagnosis or the appropriateness of the remedy.
ReBurn
Gold Member
No worries. I was just trying to say that thatbox's original response to Xarudace was more appropriate. But it probably would have resulted in a ban.
I've been following the thread for a while. I hope all is well for lexi as well.
Devolution
Member
Yeah it was indeed appropriate. Xaru is doing some serious concern trolling.
AGAIN, this isn't about FFS. Getting a metal plate installed in your head is not FFS. FFS is plastic surgery. Getting a metal plate is an invasive surgery not even in the same medical field as plastic surgery. We're not talking about FFS. I think that's a great thing, as I've already said, and I'm happy she's getting it and I hope that turns out as she's hoping. If she got a good doctor for that, I'm sure it will.
I just posted that I don't have them. No, not all of them are corrupt, but there's no way to tell which ones aren't. The rampant corruption in the country should be more than enough evidence to infer that the medical field is affected as well.
Also, what is wrong with you? I'm not racist at all. I'm now being quite defensive over being told I don't know what I'm talking about by people who really don't know. That's all.
Earthstrike
Member
It isn't impossible if the doctor she researched is the one that is cited in medical journals as pioneering modern trans surgeries.
What about doctors that are medically cited in western literature. If she found someone who had that quality would you stop this silliness?
It's actually possible to be concerned for someone's wellbeing without trolling you. What I'm saying is true.
I CANNOT morally sit by idly and let her go through with this without stopping. The second she says that she went through with getting the plate installed, I will drop the issue - there will be nothing more to do about it and arguing about it retroactively will do more harm than good.
I'm not questioning the doctor's ability to do FFS. Do you guys not read? That's not the issue.
Getting a metal plate in your head is not FFS. It's not related to FFS. It's a completely separate procedure.
Hyperbole. Sorry. Why don't you stop nitpicking and reply to substance?
She's already had the procedure done already, most likely. There's nothing to stop here. It's too late. So just please stop. Otherwise, I can only see this as being disingenious.
Dr.Palutena
Member
uhm, FFS is an invasive surgery... that's kinda why they needed the metal plate, because they were gonna shave her forehead but it was too thin. Can you give sources and data on why metal plates are unnecessary in this situation, can you show us your doctorate, etc? Did you actually read what she said went on at all?
If the bone over the frontal sinus is thick enough the bossing can be removed by simply grinding down the bone, however if the wall of bone is too thin it may not be possible to grind the bossing away completely without breaking through the wall into the frontal sinus. FFS surgeons have taken 3 main approaches to resolving this problem:
1. Most FFS surgeons can perform a procedure called a forehead reconstruction or cranioplasty where the glabella bone is taken apart, thinned and re-shaped, and reassembled, in the new feminine position with small titanium wires or titanium microplates and screws.
1. Most FFS surgeons can perform a procedure called a forehead reconstruction or cranioplasty where the glabella bone is taken apart, thinned and re-shaped, and reassembled, in the new feminine position with small titanium wires or titanium microplates and screws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_feminization_surgery#Forehead_recontouring
So, now that we've established that, indeed, it is a fairly common procedure, I think we can all put this to rest.
Again, sometimes you don't do everything at once. It's possible there are multiple surgeries. I realize she's probably laying in bed fast asleep full of pain killers at the moment. That doesn't mean she's not going to be getting a second surgery later to do this. There's literally no reason to believe the doctors aren't doing two or three or four surgeries. It's unlikely, but complications happen.
*Major invasive surgery I should have said. FFS is a different ballgame than getting a metal plate in your head which is not normally a part of FFS. That it might be necessary as a result of the surgery is possible. It's also possible that it's not and the doctor wants to scam her out of more of her money because she will never be able to do anything about the scam.
And no, I haven't seen the xrays to know if they're unnecessary. I never said it was unnecessary. My concern is that trusting the opinion of one doctor you've never met is probably a poor choice when you have the option of getting second opinions.
Also, I don't have a doctorate. I did research as part of a graduate program on medicine in Southeast Asia. I know more about it, in general, than most people here. I don't have the stuff saved in my bookmarks (didn't really enjoy it, refocused my studies elsewhere last year), but I know what I'm about.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
End of this tangent I hope.
Whatever, I can't win. I've done what I can and I'll leave you guys alone. Since our conversations have derailed a bit, I'll repeat the question Devolution asked to get things back on topic:
For those of you who are transgendered, at what age did you start and how old are you now?
For those of you who are transgendered, at what age did you start and how old are you now?
Complicated to get an average... there are people here that started really soon and people that didn't even get to see a doctor to see if they get allowed to start medication ... but then again some people might say that searching for doctors IS the begining of the transition =P
I started meds at 19 and i'm 26 now
Dr.Palutena
Member
No man he's an expert in corrupt thai culture and society, all forms of surgery , etc. How could you expect him to look that up ,he knows what's best, and we are just over defensive sillies who don't know as much and can't read.
Anyways, havent transitioned yet devo, currently 19 going on 20, intend to get started in about 2-3 years once some stuff has settled. Doing counseling and stuff now though, not sure where that will go just yet though.
alysonwheel
Member
Glad you posted this. I'm pretty sure I used to internet-know someone who had just this same procedure done, metal plate and all, and was really happy with it but it was a few years ago and we've lost touch; didn't want to come in here with info I wasn't certain about.
To Devolution's question, I started transition at 20, and I'm 32 now (which is why I don't post in trans communities much any more, starting to feel like a creepy aunt).
Hi guys, I'm back, titanium plate and all!. I'm off painkillers atm and am feeling great but really tired. Titanium's plate fault maybe?
My face is mostly bandages atm, which I'm sure would be off already if this fucking titanium plate wasn't put in!
(Sorry Xaru I know you mean well, but this guy is basically the top of the league.) I'll give updates as they come, but through the worst of it now.
My face is mostly bandages atm, which I'm sure would be off already if this fucking titanium plate wasn't put in!
(Sorry Xaru
I know you mean well, but this guy is basically the top of the league.) I'll give updates as they come, but through the worst of it now. Congratulations, Lexi! Glad to see you back!
By beginning transition, I'm assuming you mean physically? If so, I started hormones just over 2 months ago (laser hair removal in January) and am 26 now. Gender identity issues at least since I was 7, started "fantasizing" that I'm really a girl (and that my parents were hiding this fact) around 11, first identified as trans at 23, decided to transition at 25.
By beginning transition, I'm assuming you mean physically? If so, I started hormones just over 2 months ago (laser hair removal in January) and am 26 now. Gender identity issues at least since I was 7, started "fantasizing" that I'm really a girl (and that my parents were hiding this fact) around 11, first identified as trans at 23, decided to transition at 25.
Hi guys, I'm back, titanium plate and all!. I'm off painkillers atm and am feeling great but really tired. Titanium's plate fault maybe?
My face is mostly bandages atm, which I'm sure would be off already if this fucking titanium plate wasn't put in!
(Sorry Xaru
Awesome! Rest up.
Princess Viola
Member
I haven't begun to transition.
Glad to see that you got out of surgery in one piece, unlike what the doomsayer would have us believe.Hi guys, I'm back, titanium plate and all!. I'm off painkillers atm and am feeling great but really tired. Titanium's plate fault maybe?
My face is mostly bandages atm, which I'm sure would be off already if this fucking titanium plate wasn't put in!
(Sorry Xaru
You just went through major surgery, and you're still *healing*, so that's probably the reason you're tired, in additional to the painkillers themselves wearing off.
Get some rest hun, you deserve it. No vidya games until the doc clears you!