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Transgaf: 'cause boys will be girls (and vice versa)

I

InfiniteNine

Rolling Girl
Welcome new peoples! A little late to this since I've been busy but hope you feel alright with the thread Box of Bunnies, Anura, PROGRAM_IX, PowderedToast, and NON1337H41.

Also going to go to my second therapy session tomorrow. Still a bit nervous about going but it feels good to be making bigger steps all the same.
 
E

EmiPrime

Member
Abe Bly said:
I was about to post in the thread that I'd absolutely be willing to date someone transgender, but the thread was closed before I got there. Are you saying that even people sending a positive message should avoid such discussions? Because then I feel it turns into even more of an echo chamber, and the naysayers get to feel like they're extra right for having the still-popular opinion.
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They are welcome to their transphobic echo chamber and ultimately this is moot because a moderator rightly decided to close it. Trying to engage with such discussion helps legitimise it, like it's a valid debate despite it always gravitating quickly towards another crapfest about genitals and disclosure with the usual suspects.

If you end up dating a trans person, well great. This thread is here for you if you need support or have questions.
 
M

mollipen

Member
EmiPrime said:
It's good of you to say that, thanks. All threads that try to debate how legitimate or fuckable trans people are should be avoided, even if you mean well. They're inherently incredibly dehumanising and transphobic discussions and these things are not okay to discuss.
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Absolutely disagree. Everything should be on the table for discussion—that's how people learn. If that discussion turns into personal attacks or targeted insults, shut that down, but telling people who aren't trans that they can't discuss trans people—even if it's a discussion we may not like—is not the right option in my mind.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, just stating my opinion. And I'm well aware that my opinions on things definitely go against the norm at times.
 
A

Anastasia

Member
shidoshi said:
Absolutely disagree. Everything should be on the table for discussion—that's how people learn. If that discussion turns into personal attacks or targeted insults, shut that down, but telling people who aren't trans that they can't discuss trans people—even if it's a discussion we may not like—is not the right option in my mind.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, just stating my opinion. And I'm well aware that my opinions on things definitely go against the norm at times.
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I would agree in most cases, but when the very title and OP of the thread is inflammatory and most likely won't lead to meaningful discussion, I don't see what there is to gain by keeping the thread open. That whole thread, by its nature, was an insult to trans people.
 
E

EmiPrime

Member
shidoshi said:
Absolutely disagree. Everything should be on the table for discussion—that's how people learn. If that discussion turns into personal attacks or targeted insults, shut that down, but telling people who aren't trans that they can't discuss trans people—even if it's a discussion we may not like—is not the right option in my mind.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, just stating my opinion. And I'm well aware that my opinions on things definitely go against the norm at times.
Click to expand...

If you think "debate" threads that start with a transphobic premise or encourage posts that attack the legitimacy of trans people that always result in a quagmire of chromosomes/disclosure/penis posts are the right venue for education, you are going to burn out very quickly.

GAF can handle (most) news posts about trans issues so it's not totally hopeless and those can be good discussions from which people can learn.

Pick your battles.
 
P

Platy

Member
Damn ... missed that thread while it was still open because I was having more fun seeing my country break a record in biggest loose in world cup soccer history =P
 
F

Five

Banned
EmiPrime said:
They are welcome to their transphobic echo chamber and ultimately this is moot because a moderator rightly decided to close it. Trying to engage with such discussion helps legitimise it, like it's a valid debate despite it always gravitating quickly towards another crapfest about genitals and disclosure with the usual suspects.

If you end up dating a trans person, well great. This thread is here for you if you need support or have questions.
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It makes perfect sense when you put it that way. Thank you for explaining!
 
M

mollipen

Member
EmiPrime said:
If you think "debate" threads that start with a transphobic premise or encourage posts that attack the legitimacy of trans people that always result in a quagmire of chromosomes/disclosure/penis posts are the right venue for education, you are going to burn out very quickly.
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I do not think the question "would you date someone who is transgender" is either off limits or transphobic.

The thread was started asking if, in the two years since the original thread, opinions had changed at all on NeoGAF. That's a totally valid question to ask, and people should have the right to say no. I take issue with those who give their answers in overly negative or insulting ways, but that doesn't mean the entire conversation is offensive.

Like it or not, people should have the right to not agree with us, believe us, want to date us, or even like us, so long as those things don't turn into actual action taken against us. The only way to change a lot of minds like that is to allow conversations to happen, and try to explain the other side—not to tell them that they can't have said conversations. (Again, so long as they're actual conversations, not one-sided attacks on a segment of people. I never felt like that thread was such a thing.)

And I've been jumping into those kinds of conversations on here for years, since before this thread was started. I'm not worried about getting burned out. *heh*
 
L

lexi

Banned
I don't think it's a legitimate conversation, at least on GAF.

It amounts to concern trolling at best and outright transphobia (I loved how someone in that thread used air quotes around transphobia, like it doesn't exist) at worst
 
M

mollipen

Member
I think it's a conversation that doesn't need to happen on GAF, that maybe doesn't need to be a forum thread period (at least of this type), and that can't always be actually had to a reasonable level. I'll totally agree to all of that.

But, I don't know that people who are trans should work to shut down the thread, when it's meant for people who aren't trans to give their opinions on the matter. In the same way, I'd be fine with threads like "would you date someone who is black" or "would you date someone who is Muslim".

Again, acknowledging the fact that it's fair to say that a trans-focused thread of that type may give rise to insults far easier than others. (Either due to better cultural acceptance, or people being smarter about hiding potential bigotry.)
 
E

EmiPrime

Member
shidoshi said:
But, I don't know that people who are trans should work to shut down the thread, when it's meant for people who aren't trans to give their opinions on the matter. In the same way, I'd be fine with threads like "would you date someone who is black" or "would you date someone who is Muslim".
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We are never going to agree then. If you can't see how harmful and toxic such threads are to minorities then frankly, wow.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
I can only speak for myself, but it comes across as a referendum for "trans people: gross or notgross?" Literally, not proverbially nauseates me.
 
M

mollipen

Member
EmiPrime said:
We are never going to agree then. If you can't see how harmful and toxic such threads are to minorities then frankly, wow.
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Banning posters from being mean to transgender people or words like "tranny" or "it's a trap" hasn't improved the collective treatment of NeoGAF's trans members on this forum—conversations, discussions, and interactions with members of TransGAF and/or supporters has. I absolutely believe that, and I believe that those improvements come when we don't just shut down conversations, even if we don't agree with them.

No, we aren't going to agree, but that's fine! And I'd rather let this thread move on to other things than continue to talk about the merits or downfalls of a thread that's now closed anyhow.
 
S

sophora

Member
I agree with Shidoshi's stance on the matter. Though that thread itself felt bad to look through, I did feel better about things after seeing some other more positive responses. There should be discussion, that way there's room for people to become more educated so they can adjust their stances better. It'll take steps, but things are, I feel, becoming better.
 
A

Alchemy

Member
So how normal is it to get jealous of random things like female mannerisms or voices? Because I feel super petty and depressed right now, and I feel like I'm hyper focused on things like how other women talk and move. Think my brain is messing with me, somehow felt more normal when I was just hating myself.
 
A

Amalthea

Banned
Alchemy said:
So how normal is it to get jealous of random things like female mannerisms or voices? Because I feel super petty and depressed right now, and I feel like I'm hyper focused on things like how other women talk and move. Think my brain is messing with me, somehow felt more normal when I was just hating myself.
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I'd say it's pretty normal. At least till you got it down yourself.
 
A

Anura

Member
So what techniques did you gals use to get a good voice? There's plenty of stuff online but it's simply a mountain to sift through so I kinda wanna know what stuff worked for you
 
A

Alchemy

Member
Anura said:
So what techniques did you gals use to get a good voice? There's plenty of stuff online but it's simply a mountain to sift through so I kinda wanna know what stuff worked for you
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This would be really helpful for me as well, all I'm doing right now is trying to use my head voice and getting comfortable with that while commuting to and from work.

And I can't stop watching this and getting incredibly jealous. Think it is brain washing me to want to resub to WoW so I can distract myself.
 
A

Amalthea

Banned
Anura said:
So what techniques did you gals use to get a good voice? There's plenty of stuff online but it's simply a mountain to sift through so I kinda wanna know what stuff worked for you
Click to expand...
I took logopedia lessons. First they shoved me a stetoscopic camera down my throat and took a sample of my voice spectrum then they set my range and gave me a possible range I could reach in the future. Then we had to find a tone that's both high but also comfortable enough to train the voice with it. Most lessons were about strenghtening the voice chords with that tone level until the voice got locked there.
It helps to use a piano (digitally or a real one) to control if your voice keeps the tone.
One of the first lessons was to keep drawing waves in the air with your fingers while making uuuhuuuhuuu or aaahaaahaaa sounds. Higher pitch when your finger is on top of the wave lower pitch when it goes to the bottom. Important was not to overdo each training sequence since it could hurt your chords. Those lessons are kinda hard to describe but I'd like to show you more if it doesn't sound too confusing ;)

And that's how I sound now:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Cv3BEq2OBG
 
P

Platy

Member
Femmeworth said:
usingimaginationsincenopics.gif
Click to expand...

From his facebook

2010
ApNE4Nx.jpg
Click to expand...

2014
kMzb79q.jpg
Click to expand...

but then again, I found this pic
x8qOqDD.png
Click to expand...
and this pic
bRW075m.jpg


So probably just broken transdar =P
 
F

Five

Banned
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but are there places where Ricky is considered to be a female name? If not, I guess I'm wondering why someone presenting as female would hold onto a male name. Thanks.
 
B

Box of Bunnies

Banned
Ricki with an i is definitely feminine, though I tend to see the y variety used more masculinely.

Self perception is a real shit. Yesterday morning I was thinking "yeah, I'm definitely gonna pass with some time and effort" but I have no idea what the hell I was seeing to make myself feel that way now.
 
P

Platy

Member
In a EVO that had Daigo, Wong, Tokido and everyone else down at the quarter finals and at the top4, 3 have regular controllers and one of those have a PSX CONTROLLER....


Yay for Ricky ! =D
 
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