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Transgaf: 'cause boys will be girls (and vice versa)
- Thread starter lexi
- Start date
Simply Sarah
Member
Oh look, I'm the villain for getting a bit worked up at the person calling me as male and someone just trying to GOTCHA him. And how dare I assume what someone thinks when they refuse to actually answer questions.
I had thought NeoGAF was getting vaguely better on this, but clearly it's going in reverse.
I had thought NeoGAF was getting vaguely better on this, but clearly it's going in reverse.
My male identity is basically dead as of today outside of paperwork that needs updating; worked my final day at work before my transition becomes public knowledge there next week, which completes my long coming out process.
Shame I can't slap on my estradiol patch tonight as I still don't have the prescription sorted, but that should get cleared up within the week. Gonna check with the medical center in town tomorrow if they've got their copy of my consultant's letter anyway.
Shame I can't slap on my estradiol patch tonight as I still don't have the prescription sorted, but that should get cleared up within the week. Gonna check with the medical center in town tomorrow if they've got their copy of my consultant's letter anyway.
Gaf is normally relatively cool but trans dating discussions are always a huge hornets nest that bring out the most insecure straight users.
On the other hand a lot of general womens threads get out of hand too.
Congragualtions on the final steps in the one area.
As far as the other thread goes, I read until about Page 4, someone said how they only wanted a natrual vag because there is no way a "fake" vag would be as good as the real thing and then someone else was talking about how you are male if you are born a male because of biology.
Got angry, nearly posted but then hit the back button at the last second and just left gaff for an hour to play hearthstone.
Simply Sarah
Member
You chose wisely.
You give this place too much credit.
I mean, yeah, is better than other places and there's many great people here, but there's still much bigottry and ingorance in a lot of issues, specially in ones like that thread. BTW, i coudln't read past page 2. one of my eyes is still stuck in the back of my head.
CONGRATS!! Great news girl.
Simply Sarah
Member
It's just...how dare I ask questions in order to understand someones position so I can discuss/counter it. How sneaky and awful of me to not just guess at their reasoning and toss stuff out left and right. Whatever, I wouldn't be surprised if that thread results in my getting a ban at this point.
Congrats! Great news!
Congrats! Great news!
I must admit, I'm very pleased with how work has handled things so far. All HR requested of me was a bit of time to get the rest of the management staff up to speed to make sure people know how to deal with transphobic comments made by other staff members.
The senior management staff (including the company's CEO) were informed last week sometime, and he's behind me 100%, despite us never having met in the year that I've worked at my current company.
I go back into work next Saturday morning for a 7-day night shift, so only a few people are going to see me until March, when I start day shifts again.
The only thing I'm really worried about now is my work fashion choices, finding formal shoes in my size, and if I should wear my bra inserts.
The senior management staff (including the company's CEO) were informed last week sometime, and he's behind me 100%, despite us never having met in the year that I've worked at my current company.
I go back into work next Saturday morning for a 7-day night shift, so only a few people are going to see me until March, when I start day shifts again.
The only thing I'm really worried about now is my work fashion choices, finding formal shoes in my size, and if I should wear my bra inserts.
Awesome, congrats! I can't imagine completely killing off my male identity right now, not strong enough for that >.<
As far as the thread goes, I just start putting people on my ignore list. Can't handle trudging through the shit that much.
A girl I've been seeing for a few weeks came out as transgender last night. I care about her a great deal, but it definitely surprised me.
Didn't know we had a thread about this. Will be reading through this entire thread tonight. Hoping to get a better understanding of it all.
Didn't know we had a thread about this. Will be reading through this entire thread tonight. Hoping to get a better understanding of it all.
I won't say to much, but if she/he came out to you they likely do care for you a great deal and want to be honest with you.
Take care in the coming days, and I wish you both happiness and joy no matter what happens. Transgender can be hard on both the person and their lover and I hope you both find a path that works for the two of you.
I think that the main issue I have with threads like that current shit show is that they're typically started by dudes who somehow can't fathom that people exist in this world who are different races, creeds, sexualities, genders, ect. And that the moment they see an individual that doesn't fit their idea of what's "normal" to them it blows their mind.
Why do they care where a person takes a shit? Like...why? Why does it matter what toilet you use? I say this as a Call of Duty, sport playing, straight dude gym rat. Who. Cares. Let people feel comfortable and welcome and stop giving this wicked awesome community and our fellow brothers and sisters a hard time about everything. It's fucking lame.
For real though, love all of you and I hope all is well so far in 2015<3333
Edit:
Also, just do what ComicGAF does and ignore the plebs who start threads like those in the OT. Your mind will thank you and you'll spend less on ibuprofen.
Why do they care where a person takes a shit? Like...why? Why does it matter what toilet you use? I say this as a Call of Duty, sport playing, straight dude gym rat. Who. Cares. Let people feel comfortable and welcome and stop giving this wicked awesome community and our fellow brothers and sisters a hard time about everything. It's fucking lame.
For real though, love all of you and I hope all is well so far in 2015<3333
Edit:
Also, just do what ComicGAF does and ignore the plebs who start threads like those in the OT. Your mind will thank you and you'll spend less on ibuprofen.
+1
Also trans folks (hi!) tonight my partner and I went to see a really great one-woman show by the trans performer Kate O Donnell called 'Big Girl's Blouse'. It was about being trans, sexism, prejudice and theatricality. Very funny and very moving. It was filmed but I'm not sure where it will be broadcast. But just thought I'd try and put it on your collective radar
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
All that thread do was piss me off. Unforunately it seems like I just cannot not post/read. I just don't understand them.
Ship of Theseus, did I really just read that? Holy shit I'm dying. LOL
Nothing can possibly eclipse this moment, right?
Nothing can possibly eclipse this moment, right?
Am I out of line here or? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=151833932&postcount=1081
JonathanNemo
Member
No, not at all. Though I have seen a surprising amount of offense from people who are not aware of how trans people actually perceive that term, elsewhere.
Empathy. Why is it so hard to come by.
Simply Sarah
Member
Well, like I tried (And probably failed) to explain in my most recent post, the stuff around transsexual/transgender is...complicated. But yes, I'd say the latter is probably vaguely safer, maybe.
The term 'transsexual' comes off as overly clinical, it's not a fantastic way to refer to someone. I recognize it as it comes under the ICD-10 code for what I've been diagnosed with, as the UK's NHS uses ICD-10 codes (Or at least, seems to):
Nobody in the clinic has ever referred to me as a transsexual, though, so I think this is a in-the-literature-only case, and chances are, it'll be updated and replaced with better terminology at a later date.
WHO said:
Nobody in the clinic has ever referred to me as a transsexual, though, so I think this is a in-the-literature-only case, and chances are, it'll be updated and replaced with better terminology at a later date.
HUELEN10
Member
Likewise, mostly from people I know IRL who were born male, identify as female, live and present as female, and have undergone sexual reassignment surgery to match the genitalia to the gender, not the sex. Never have I ever heard it used as anything bad, just in general as term describing a transgendered individual that has undergone SRS.
JonathanNemo
Member
The previous three posts are about right. I have several close friends who consider "transsexual" to be offensive when it's used to refer to all transgendered folk.
The trouble is that "transsexual" is not necessarily that it's clinical, but when it's used as a blanket term for people who don't fully endorse their sex assigned at birth. In that context, it's too narrow of a definition and it indicates a lack of respect for one's own sexual identity. Its origins as a term used in psychological communities also carry with it a certain negative stigma, back when being transgendered was widely perceived as a disorder.
Frankly, I've seen a number of places IRL and on the webs where the term is used in that way, by people who refuse to acknowledge a person's own gender identity and prefer to be an ass about it.
Like, I understand when people don't know better, and that's alright. But it's tainted by its history and the disrespectful.
The trouble is that "transsexual" is not necessarily that it's clinical, but when it's used as a blanket term for people who don't fully endorse their sex assigned at birth. In that context, it's too narrow of a definition and it indicates a lack of respect for one's own sexual identity. Its origins as a term used in psychological communities also carry with it a certain negative stigma, back when being transgendered was widely perceived as a disorder.
Frankly, I've seen a number of places IRL and on the webs where the term is used in that way, by people who refuse to acknowledge a person's own gender identity and prefer to be an ass about it.
Like, I understand when people don't know better, and that's alright. But it's tainted by its history and the disrespectful.
I'm kinda here too.
I really have no issue with the word Trans/Transexual and I have yet to fully transition. It's been something that I've gotten in trouble with over with some in the trans community because I choose not to associate the word Transexual with a negative context.
Granted each person can have their own opinions, but for me it's hard enough for your average Jane to understand I do t feel it helps any to take away one of the things they do readily understand.
I can deal with transsexual, and general ignorance as long as the people are well meaning and willing to learn or correct damaging behavior like misgendering or dead naming. But there are certainly some offensive terms that get thrown around at transgender people constantly so I can totally see why some people are quick to be offended.
And I'm not saying that there aren't offensive words, and that people shouldn't have the right to be offended.
I just... I don't want to be in that place. I care about the meaning people have behind the words, not the words themselves. Someone could call me a tranny or a trap or whatever, and if I knew they weren't trying to offend me by those words, I probably wouldn't care. (At least, I still don't care as of this point.) I'd make sure they knew those weren't cool words to use in reference to people they don't know, but I don't care.
If somebody is calling me a tranny and having negative or threatening meaning behind it, then I can assure you that my concern isn't that they're calling me those words, it's about what could transpire next if things go beyond words.
And sometimes, I feel like I can't even talk about my own personal situation and experiences around some other trans people without fear that I'll offend them, and I find that to be a ridiculous position to be in.
I pretty much agree on all points with you, though I haven't run into problems talking to other trans people before. Maybe I should talk to more people...
DJ Crimson
Banned
Yep, same round of posters as always. Like clockwork.
That was good. Damn good indeed.
You painted a proverbial they (men) of having a dissonance between baby daddy shirking (in other threads) whilst claiming piety of fatherhood (in that thread). It was entirely unsupported and then you begged the question saying it was curious.
It's clearly faulty logic on multiple accounts, and it came across as a drive by comment. Clearly broad strokes and generalizations. The dog piling happens both ways. Compared to other comments where ignorance needed addressed, that was purely a fault in logic. Why are you surprised? Nobody appreciates that regardless of subject matter.
It's a nasty thread at times, but there are many great folks trying really hard to engage to discussion. It's been getting better because thanks to few troopers reactionary responses have been curtailed. I understand coming back here upset about some of the comments in that thread, but those ones?
You know we may be about 5-10 years away from trans women being able to conceive thanks to utero transplants and who knows what other advances. It sounds like you'll be surprised when 'I want to be a father' suddenly changes to some other convenient excuse?
If I sound jaded its because I've witnessed the evolution of people saying 'Ew trannies' to a much more palatable, sophisticated spiel.
keeblerdrow
Member
.1.
Yeah hopefully things advance in strides on the medical front. You're right there will still be those people holding out. A lot of conversation happening in there is hypothetical, but say someone does try for a relationship with someone they later find out is trans. Maybe I'm getting too apologist here, but people very much are conditioned by their upbringing. They may be more progressive but just can't get passed the concept. They don't see themselves as bigots so they think it's stemming from somewhere else. But I also think it's equally inappropriate to assert for someone else where those feelings might be coming from. If it's really biological maybe it's unrelated to the transgender person, yet the fact the person is trans is being conflated as the reason. Or it really is a dissonance that can't be settled. (This is not the dissonance you were talking about, I'm not letting you off the hook on that one.)
I'm aware there is immense amount of hurt listening through tons of opinions, but the internet is a really bad place to engage. You have no clue about the lense of others, where they are coming from, how clear they are in their stance. Or even how much effort they are putting into distilling their thoughts. If nothing else the sophistication of peoples stances is actually a good thing. Might be harder to chip away at the last 10%, but that's where the real work begins. It's not all just low fruit.
I have to give it up to Empress in that thread, for trooping through. I like to think that people regardless of their stance are smart enough to know when someone is patronizing or demonizing them. That thread was full of ad hominem attacks from both sides. Succumbing to the same behavior just stagnates the discussion. Clearly transgender folks are are on the back foot here. But in the end offense and aggression do nothing to educate and work with the points on the table. I understand the jadedness though, it comes with every escalating debate.
excelsiorlef
Member
So I need advice. I'm openly trans, like no one doesn't know, or if they don't it's because I assume they already knew. I'm completely blaze about it, it is as important to me honestly as saying my favorite colour is green.
Now my problem is because I'm so open and confident about it, other trans folk tend to flock to me for advice and guidance and really want to talk about the trans experience with me. Problem is I really don't know how to help people who are struggling with it. What can I say? Like I do my best but honestly it's sometimes exhausting being that go to trans person, especially since being trans for me isn't really a huge deal for me. So I don't know how to help people but I can't exactly tell them to shove off either.
Now my problem is because I'm so open and confident about it, other trans folk tend to flock to me for advice and guidance and really want to talk about the trans experience with me. Problem is I really don't know how to help people who are struggling with it. What can I say? Like I do my best but honestly it's sometimes exhausting being that go to trans person, especially since being trans for me isn't really a huge deal for me. So I don't know how to help people but I can't exactly tell them to shove off either.
And, you know, it's funny, but lately, I'm kind of more okay with the "ew trannies" people than I am with the people who think they're making big, serious, intelligent arguments as to why or how we're wrong about such-and-such. At least, with the first group, I pretty much instantly know where they stand, and they aren't hiding their feelings behind a lot of big words or explanations.
JonathanNemo
Member
Preach.
There's some part of me that wants to be patient with the second group to assume good intent, and I try. That very quickly evaporates the instant I deal with real life troubles with serious consequences.
My tolerance for petty people declines as I have to take care of more grown up problems.
I'm with you here, and yeah, I also feel disconnected from the activist side of the community at times over things like this. I think this is partly to do with not being able to handle anger. I am rarely ever angry, and I find it hard to deal with other angry people. I cannot easily differentiate between what you might call 'righteous anger' and other types of anger, and my first response to anger is to disengage and move off.
The other issue that I have with that subject is any response I have to it can come off as very "lawl, got mine!". When I met my partner online, one of the first things we discussed after our shared love of pizza and Doctor Who was our feelings regarding our own gender identities. When we first met up IRL back in 2012, it actually felt like he was more likely to go down the path I'm now going down. When he determined how he felt about his gender (He's comfortable in his male identity, but will answer to a female name and crossdresses occasionally around the house), it helped motivate me to seek out counseling and start down this path.
Thing is, my partner is pretty much the first person I dated outside of school-age flings, and I was so deep in the closet back then I was practically in Narnia. Even calling it 'dating' in my partner's case is a bit of a stretch, given that we spoke over MSN for 4 weeks and skipped straight to 'meeting in a London hotel for casual fun'. Our one 'date' consisted of a meal at a Japanese restaurant during that evening. I feel fundamentally disconnected from the dating scene because I was never really a part of it.
Simply Sarah
Member
In having slept on it, I think putting so much focus on how cis and trans women don't differ so much was a huge mistake. I should have immediately gone in the direction of "So what?" rather than reenforce ideas about needing to fit a gender binary. Clearly I still have a lot to work on internally in regards to how I discuss and debate this stuff with people.
One possible idea is to get a collection of resources you can hand out to said people, which should be useful for at least some of those coming to you and would take some of the focus off of you. Other than that, off the top of my head, you may just need to be clear with them that you just don't have all the answers and that, while they have your general support, you simply can't give good advice for situations X, Y, and Z. i mean, saying that in a more diplomatic and thoughtful manner.
One possible idea is to get a collection of resources you can hand out to said people, which should be useful for at least some of those coming to you and would take some of the focus off of you. Other than that, off the top of my head, you may just need to be clear with them that you just don't have all the answers and that, while they have your general support, you simply can't give good advice for situations X, Y, and Z. i mean, saying that in a more diplomatic and thoughtful manner.
I had to bow out of the thread because it made me feel sick and I had to lay down. I told myself I was going to stay out but I felt like I had to say something. I don't know if "fighting the good fight" is for me anymore. But I do think it's necessary to correct the kind of ignorance that was on display, whether people will accept it or not. And if someone's mind can be changed, then that is some progress.
Erin S Kittens
Member
I've gotta be there to represent the radical anarchist end of the spectrum
Erin S Kittens
Member
I often get read as angry when I'm really just over it. Tone policing is bullshit :3