Android18a
Member
Yeah Shi-chan 
p), I already pmed you my msn address too, if you wanted to chat =)
p), I already pmed you my msn address too, if you wanted to chat =)
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Transgaf: 'cause boys will be girls (and vice versa)
- Thread starter lexi
- Start date
shidoshi said:
I completely agree on this. I was speaking to the type that drives people to depression. Jealousy, as you've said, can be damned healthy when used correctly. If it drives you complete a healthy goal then it's awesome, but more often I find it just puts people into quite dark places emotionally.
shidoshi said:
I don't want to see this thread end until we've all reached our goals. I'm pulling for each and every one of us. Because we aren't alone, and we do support each other. And that is nine million kinds of inspiring.
Communication is completely awesome. Even on the intarwebs (Shocking I know!), as this thread has proven in spades. Thing of beauty it is!
shidoshi said:
If I insinuated somehow one should be ashamed of feeling jealous that was not my intent at all, and I apologize if my post did so. <3
NewGamePlus
Member
But I don't know what my goals are. How will I know when I've gotten there?tehAinsley said:
NewGamePlus
Member
No, that's what I meant. I still really don't know exactly where I want to end up, or what will make me the most content with myself. I suppose I'll just have to keep this thread alive forever, just to be sure.
NewGamePlus said:No, that's what I meant. I still really don't know exactly where I want to end up, or what will make me the most content with myself. I suppose I'll just have to keep this thread alive forever, just to be sure.
I'm not totally sure either to be honest. Like, I'm not totally sure yet SRS is something I really want yet or not, being able to afford it is the big thing (lol, thing :lol) there. I'm kinda of thinking FFS would be the one I'd get sooner. Seems it would go farther towards helping me be accepted in everyday life as a female than SRS would at this point. So I guess you could say we're kind of in the same boat.
Either way, I'm totally down with this thread lasting to 2012 and beyond. :lol
Android18a said:Yeah Shi-chan
And I added you to my friend list days ago. You got that, right? (I use MSN through a third-party app, so for all I know I didn't do it right, since I have like two MSN messenger friends.)
shidoshi said:
The only person I chat with is Ainsley
(cause I didn't think anyone really wanted to hear me blather on about writing and movies and really stupid people/things I see happening in real life)
NewGamePlus said:But I don't know what my goals are. How will I know when I've gotten there?
You will show me a picture and I will tell you if you are so hot I would leave my wife for you. :lol
NewGamePlus
Member
Ok, I'm pretty sure I just missed something
Android18a
Member
tehAinsley said:
Did I just click through three pages at once?
Greeting to everyone on the thread. This is my first post here and I would like to ask a question or two involving transgender individuals (It's late and I'm not even sure if my question(s) will be answered :lol ) My ?'s are very genuine and if they come across as insulting and/or rude it is not my intent for them to be so. I've never met trans individuals before so this will actually help me understand you guys' situation better.
1. Is the longing for gender reassignment because you guys (and girls) genuinely feel like a man (or woman) trapped in the wrong body or is it more that you fit the role of said gender more? For example, a passive, emotional gay male who finds himself identifying with women more and wanting to become one himself or simply put a man who doesn't feel right with a penis or maybe something else rather? At what age should this (reassignment) seriously be considered?
2. There has been several instances of transgendered people going through events that I can't say I agree with them on and in some cases think they're wrong for doing what they did. Examples: I was watching a documentary of a man going through the process of becoming a woman and succeeding, yet leaving behind her wife of 7(?) years and their three young children. I can't say that I understand her mindset as I don't have to go through the dual mentality that she does, but when you have young children involved I think her procedure was a bit selfish. Speaking of which, if a person is passed adolescence and marry/have offspring reassignment (imo) would only hurt those individuals and at that point I can't sympathize with them despite whatever roles society imposed on them as their birth sex. What's your options on this?
3. Another involved a transgendered man getting pregnant and reverting back to his female self, having a baby, and continues to identify as a man. I agree that it's America and people could do whatever the hell they want provided it's legal, but if she truly felt that she was/is a man then why get pregnant? Why choose a gender role outside your own if you truly felt that you were male? Adoption's an option, right? It just seems like she wanted to have her cake and eat it too, though I'm hard pressed to identify her as a man because of her flip-flop. What's your thoughts?
Again, these questions stem from curiosity and ignorance. My heart goes out to all of the people who feel trapped in some way or some form, but I would like to get more information to support you guys' cause.
1. Is the longing for gender reassignment because you guys (and girls) genuinely feel like a man (or woman) trapped in the wrong body or is it more that you fit the role of said gender more? For example, a passive, emotional gay male who finds himself identifying with women more and wanting to become one himself or simply put a man who doesn't feel right with a penis or maybe something else rather? At what age should this (reassignment) seriously be considered?
2. There has been several instances of transgendered people going through events that I can't say I agree with them on and in some cases think they're wrong for doing what they did. Examples: I was watching a documentary of a man going through the process of becoming a woman and succeeding, yet leaving behind her wife of 7(?) years and their three young children. I can't say that I understand her mindset as I don't have to go through the dual mentality that she does, but when you have young children involved I think her procedure was a bit selfish. Speaking of which, if a person is passed adolescence and marry/have offspring reassignment (imo) would only hurt those individuals and at that point I can't sympathize with them despite whatever roles society imposed on them as their birth sex. What's your options on this?
3. Another involved a transgendered man getting pregnant and reverting back to his female self, having a baby, and continues to identify as a man. I agree that it's America and people could do whatever the hell they want provided it's legal, but if she truly felt that she was/is a man then why get pregnant? Why choose a gender role outside your own if you truly felt that you were male? Adoption's an option, right? It just seems like she wanted to have her cake and eat it too, though I'm hard pressed to identify her as a man because of her flip-flop. What's your thoughts?
Again, these questions stem from curiosity and ignorance. My heart goes out to all of the people who feel trapped in some way or some form, but I would like to get more information to support you guys' cause.
Android18a
Member
^_^ I'll let someone else have a go at that one first =)
I don't really want to answer all of that as I'm not in a question answering mood. I did want to address that I don't think it can be called selfish when somebody who is married / has children comes to the conclusion they need to transition. For many, the way they feel is repressed and ignored for a long time and getting married / having kids are often hoped to 'fix' how they feel. It does become unfortunate especially when kids get involved, but it doesn't have to be the end of the world.
With more awareness and information we may get to a point where people feel they can be themselves and forgo having to feel guilty for it. There's even an example of that in this thread, you should what Aigis has to say, and she's only 15.
Cuuuuute picture Jess! Keep them coming!
With more awareness and information we may get to a point where people feel they can be themselves and forgo having to feel guilty for it. There's even an example of that in this thread, you should what Aigis has to say, and she's only 15.
Cuuuuute picture Jess! Keep them coming!
NewGamePlus
Member
First off, forgive me, I may have had a drink or three earlier and everything might not come out as clearly as it should.
I'm not sure I fully understand this question, but I believe it's mainly the former yet a bit different for everybody. I think you'll find that mostly everyone in this thread hates the body they were born with, and they do feel like a "woman trapped in a man's body." I on the other hand, don't currently identify closely with either male nor female stereotypes, and I don't have particularly strong dysphoria about my body (I'm indifferent towards my genitalia). Err, I forget where I was I going with this. As far as age goes, as long as it is overseen by professionals, I don't see why reassignment should have to be postponed past adolescence.
It doesn't always work like that. A surprising amount of couples/ families stay together through one partner's transition. Yes, transition could be seen as selfish. It's often the first truly selfish thing that individual has done in his or her lifetime. But having an emotionally distant and depressed father probably wouldn't be very good for the children anyways. Certainly worse than two mothers. Did that individual in the documentary completely abandon her family on her own accord? Because I agree that, that would be unfortunate.
I see nothing wrong with a man giving birth. Adoption is a an option, and a very noble one at that. It isn't quite the same though, is it? He very well couldn't impregnate someone else, so I don't really see the problem.
I do hope most of that came out right.
weepy said:
I'm not sure I fully understand this question, but I believe it's mainly the former yet a bit different for everybody. I think you'll find that mostly everyone in this thread hates the body they were born with, and they do feel like a "woman trapped in a man's body." I on the other hand, don't currently identify closely with either male nor female stereotypes, and I don't have particularly strong dysphoria about my body (I'm indifferent towards my genitalia). Err, I forget where I was I going with this. As far as age goes, as long as it is overseen by professionals, I don't see why reassignment should have to be postponed past adolescence.
weepy said:
It doesn't always work like that. A surprising amount of couples/ families stay together through one partner's transition. Yes, transition could be seen as selfish. It's often the first truly selfish thing that individual has done in his or her lifetime. But having an emotionally distant and depressed father probably wouldn't be very good for the children anyways. Certainly worse than two mothers. Did that individual in the documentary completely abandon her family on her own accord? Because I agree that, that would be unfortunate.
weepy said:
I see nothing wrong with a man giving birth. Adoption is a an option, and a very noble one at that. It isn't quite the same though, is it? He very well couldn't impregnate someone else, so I don't really see the problem.
I do hope most of that came out right.
weepy said:
I'm not TG, but I'll take a stab at this. Gender role is a very weird concept, because gender roles change over the course of history. Being passive, emotional, or homosexual does not define your gender. Those all relate to outside stimulus. Gender is how you feel about yourself. There are masculine females, but that doesn't mean they want a penis. It means that they take traits regarded as masculine and approach life in that manner. Their brains are no less female than a female who takes on what one would consider traditional female roles. They still want their vaginas, and they still like the internal stimulus that defines a gender as female.
A better way of putting this, and I don't know if the science behind this is as accurate as I've heard, is that your brain and body developed differently at birth. Your brain developed in a way that it regards itself as female or male, but the body doesn't sync up. Female and male brains work in completely different ways. This is why sexuality plays no part in being transgendered. It has nothing to do with outside stimulus, and everything to do with how your internal mechanism is running.
As for the age of SRS, everyone is completely different, but I think people should be 18 or older before they even seriously consider it. But every TG KNOWS they aren't in the right body from a very, VERY young age, and it only gets worse over time.
I can not begin to quantify exactly what someone in this situation is going through, except to say that the amount of torture that someone feels can not truly be outlined. Imagine, for a minute, that tomorrow, you are not allowed to be who you are. Not at all. Everything you find enjoyable is taken from you, and you are told, and even THREATENED, with being something completely different. What you may see as selfish is also life saving.
I've already expressed my opinions, and though I think the transition should begin before being attached, whether through marriage or children, it can and does happen. At the end of the day, it's up to that family to work on whatever it is that is presented to them. Not everyone will walk away from the marriage, and many families do sort things out, and function as well or better than what you may regard as a traditional nuclear family.
If you're referring to the man who was all over the news, it was possibly because they wanted a blood child. If I recall, his wife couldn't get pregnant for whatever reason. That's their choice. We say that family is the most important thing in the world, yet when someone wants to have a family that is not the nuclear family that almost no longer exists, we are up in arms about it. Why? What will be different about their family than other families? I doubt the husband and wife will sit around with their clothes off and point at their anatomy with the children in the room. If the children are raised with a strong father figure and stable household, who are we to care?
And because sexuality and what's between your legs seems to be the only way people can identify or separate gender, would that mean that because he has a vagina, you would court him as a woman? What if when he walked up to you, he sounded like your best male friend, looked like your best male friend, talked like your best male friend, and even ogled women like your best male friend? Is he still female in your eyes? Should we, then, all flash our genitals to make sure people treat us as our genitalia seem to suggest?
Something to keep in mind is that having SRS for a female to male is more expensive than male to female, and the results aren't always stellar. Creating a penis isn't as easy as creating a vagina.
Hope I answered some of your questions and gave you something to think about. I think what too many people seem to have a problem with is detaching the idea of gender from sex and vice versa.
Jamie xxoo
Member
Answers for weepy from my own perspective, no-one else's. I can't speak for transgender people as a group, because we don't really seem to all experience our own gender dysphoria in the same way.
1. In the wrong body.
2. When I was younger I tried and tried to be what I was *supposed* to be. There didn't seem to be another option. I didn't even know "transition" existed until I was 28, and I thought transgender people were just men who liked to put on women's clothes for sexual kicks. *I* didn't want to put on women's clothes, and just have how manly I looked highlighted by the contast, and I couldn't figure out what was supposed to be erotic about it. So I never investigated their world and found out that people can in fact change their bodies and that this feeling that you were supposed to have been born a girl is a real thing. THAT's why I didn't make the decision earlier. I didn't know there was a choice to be had. Even after I knew I resisted and resisted - I didn't want to be some sort of sideshow freak, hated by everyone, looking like a man in a dress. I decided I'd rather die.
Meanwhile I tried to have a normal life. I never intended to NOT have a normal life. I met someone and fell in love and settled down. Over time it became harder and harder to deal with having this body that was getting more and more manly. I stopped being able to look at myself naked, I couldn't be intimate with my partner and have that part of me used, I became more and more socially anxious because the pressure of keeping up this masculine act was so constant and so exhausting. I still wouldn't do anything about it because I desperately didn't want my partner who was my reason for living to leave me, and because I was convinced that being transgender meant being a freak, just a man in a dress. Worse than just a man.
These problems affected my relationship and eventually my partner left me. I had a complete breakdown, and stopped eating, going to uni (my second degree), sleeping - I just lay in my bed 24 hours and cried or stared into space. Finally after 4 months of this and becoming nothing but a bag of bones, I googled transgender, and started researching it. I saw a lot of people who transitioned and looked and acted normal. I went to see a gender therapist. 3 months later I was ready to start hormones and I was alive again. Then I pulled out. I was still afraid of being a freak, being alone for the rest of my life, losing everyone in my life.
I decided I could live as an extremely effeminate gay guy. Previously I was gay, but I was so straight-acting people always assumed I had a wife etc. I let myself make myself "pretty", and dropped all the masculine crap. Took about 5 months to get back to the point of not being able to work, being so thin I was medically in danger, crying constantly and just wanting to die. Being effeminate and "pretty" meant nothing. I still had a man's body, i still couldn't look at it or use it, I was still seen as a man by others.
At that point I would have committed suicide. What saved me was having lived through my ex's sister's suicide and the aftermath. I would do ANYTHING not to put my family through an experience like that. So I had to keep going. The problem was - I couldn't. I couldn't eat, or sleep, I couldn't hold down a job, I couldn't have a relationship, I saw no color, could not taste anything - I was basically dead but breathing. My body was disintegrating under the stress. I was constantly seriously ill.
I realized I would be dead within 12 months if I did not try something. So I decided putting my parents through the pain of my transition was easier on them than putting them through the pain of outliving me. Turns out they were just fine with it all, ironically. They're my biggest supporters.
The POINT of all this is that what can seem like a selfish decision, to transition, is in fact a lot kinder to that person's family than putting their children and wife through their death, whether it be the living death I described of self-loathing, inability to be intimate, and total disinterest in life, or the literal death brought about through suicidal despair.
No matter how many words I use, I can't convey how painful it is to be a woman with a man's body, living a man's life, being treated by everyone like a man.
That's my take on it. Other people don't experience their dysphoria like I do. Trans people aren't all the same. But that's how *I* understand an act like that, because just like you, I HATE the idea of children having to watch Daddy turn at best into a woman and at worst into an embarrassing man in a dress, and it's awful what it does to a relationship.
It's also so easy as you're trying to live the life you're *supposed* to (as dictated by your body) to distract yourself from the pain of it all by putting your energy into a relationship, focusing on another person, and living off the love that you get out of it. That's what I did. Luckily for me I was always attracted to men, and I *couldn't* have children. But it's very human to turn to someone else for comfort.
So yes, maybe a married person with children is selfish in transitioning, but they struggle with it their whole life before making the decision, and often it's a kinder decision than letting themselves disintegrate, in which case they are lost to their loved ones anyway. It's easy to hate the transitioner for causing pain, and so easy to forget the lifetime of pain that brought them to this point.
3. I frankly can't understand how any man would want to carry a baby and give birth like a woman. Most female-to-male transgender people I know would never ever consider doing that because they reject anything female about themselves so strongly. I really don't understand the mindset of that person, but I think I said before, all transgender people experience it differently. I can only speak from my own perspective. Some apparently do not feel any particular strong hatred for their bodies and can deal with them the way they are. I think they're lucky.
Incidentally, I sound so tragic in my story above. Of course my life wasn't all misery and sadness up until I transitioned - there were a lot of good times leading up to that final year when it finally just consumed me and became too much. And also, i didn;t turn out to be a man in a dress. I turned out fine. This is me today:
P.S. Awesome answer Alfarif. if I had read that first I wouldn't have bothered posting. I can't believe how well informed you are for someone who, all jokes aside, isn't trans.
1. In the wrong body.
2. When I was younger I tried and tried to be what I was *supposed* to be. There didn't seem to be another option. I didn't even know "transition" existed until I was 28, and I thought transgender people were just men who liked to put on women's clothes for sexual kicks. *I* didn't want to put on women's clothes, and just have how manly I looked highlighted by the contast, and I couldn't figure out what was supposed to be erotic about it. So I never investigated their world and found out that people can in fact change their bodies and that this feeling that you were supposed to have been born a girl is a real thing. THAT's why I didn't make the decision earlier. I didn't know there was a choice to be had. Even after I knew I resisted and resisted - I didn't want to be some sort of sideshow freak, hated by everyone, looking like a man in a dress. I decided I'd rather die.
Meanwhile I tried to have a normal life. I never intended to NOT have a normal life. I met someone and fell in love and settled down. Over time it became harder and harder to deal with having this body that was getting more and more manly. I stopped being able to look at myself naked, I couldn't be intimate with my partner and have that part of me used, I became more and more socially anxious because the pressure of keeping up this masculine act was so constant and so exhausting. I still wouldn't do anything about it because I desperately didn't want my partner who was my reason for living to leave me, and because I was convinced that being transgender meant being a freak, just a man in a dress. Worse than just a man.
These problems affected my relationship and eventually my partner left me. I had a complete breakdown, and stopped eating, going to uni (my second degree), sleeping - I just lay in my bed 24 hours and cried or stared into space. Finally after 4 months of this and becoming nothing but a bag of bones, I googled transgender, and started researching it. I saw a lot of people who transitioned and looked and acted normal. I went to see a gender therapist. 3 months later I was ready to start hormones and I was alive again. Then I pulled out. I was still afraid of being a freak, being alone for the rest of my life, losing everyone in my life.
I decided I could live as an extremely effeminate gay guy. Previously I was gay, but I was so straight-acting people always assumed I had a wife etc. I let myself make myself "pretty", and dropped all the masculine crap. Took about 5 months to get back to the point of not being able to work, being so thin I was medically in danger, crying constantly and just wanting to die. Being effeminate and "pretty" meant nothing. I still had a man's body, i still couldn't look at it or use it, I was still seen as a man by others.
At that point I would have committed suicide. What saved me was having lived through my ex's sister's suicide and the aftermath. I would do ANYTHING not to put my family through an experience like that. So I had to keep going. The problem was - I couldn't. I couldn't eat, or sleep, I couldn't hold down a job, I couldn't have a relationship, I saw no color, could not taste anything - I was basically dead but breathing. My body was disintegrating under the stress. I was constantly seriously ill.
I realized I would be dead within 12 months if I did not try something. So I decided putting my parents through the pain of my transition was easier on them than putting them through the pain of outliving me. Turns out they were just fine with it all, ironically. They're my biggest supporters.
The POINT of all this is that what can seem like a selfish decision, to transition, is in fact a lot kinder to that person's family than putting their children and wife through their death, whether it be the living death I described of self-loathing, inability to be intimate, and total disinterest in life, or the literal death brought about through suicidal despair.
No matter how many words I use, I can't convey how painful it is to be a woman with a man's body, living a man's life, being treated by everyone like a man.
That's my take on it. Other people don't experience their dysphoria like I do. Trans people aren't all the same. But that's how *I* understand an act like that, because just like you, I HATE the idea of children having to watch Daddy turn at best into a woman and at worst into an embarrassing man in a dress, and it's awful what it does to a relationship.
It's also so easy as you're trying to live the life you're *supposed* to (as dictated by your body) to distract yourself from the pain of it all by putting your energy into a relationship, focusing on another person, and living off the love that you get out of it. That's what I did. Luckily for me I was always attracted to men, and I *couldn't* have children. But it's very human to turn to someone else for comfort.
So yes, maybe a married person with children is selfish in transitioning, but they struggle with it their whole life before making the decision, and often it's a kinder decision than letting themselves disintegrate, in which case they are lost to their loved ones anyway. It's easy to hate the transitioner for causing pain, and so easy to forget the lifetime of pain that brought them to this point.
3. I frankly can't understand how any man would want to carry a baby and give birth like a woman. Most female-to-male transgender people I know would never ever consider doing that because they reject anything female about themselves so strongly. I really don't understand the mindset of that person, but I think I said before, all transgender people experience it differently. I can only speak from my own perspective. Some apparently do not feel any particular strong hatred for their bodies and can deal with them the way they are. I think they're lucky.
Incidentally, I sound so tragic in my story above. Of course my life wasn't all misery and sadness up until I transitioned - there were a lot of good times leading up to that final year when it finally just consumed me and became too much. And also, i didn;t turn out to be a man in a dress. I turned out fine. This is me today:
P.S. Awesome answer Alfarif. if I had read that first I wouldn't have bothered posting. I can't believe how well informed you are for someone who, all jokes aside, isn't trans.
NewGamePlus
Member
Don't say that, I'm the one who shouldn't have bothered. Your post was excellent.Jamie xxoo said:
No, I'm the one that shouldn't have posted!
Excellent posts Alfarif, Jamie and NewGamePlus. Jamie, I can relate with your experience but I don't feel my dysphoria was as acute, and maybe as you say I'm lucky. I mean, I was severely depressed and attempted suicide once, but after I started seeing people and accepted that I was trans, I felt better in orders of magnitude. I must say though you're a total inspiration, I'm so glad you felt you could write all of that out for us.
Excellent posts Alfarif, Jamie and NewGamePlus. Jamie, I can relate with your experience but I don't feel my dysphoria was as acute, and maybe as you say I'm lucky. I mean, I was severely depressed and attempted suicide once, but after I started seeing people and accepted that I was trans, I felt better in orders of magnitude. I must say though you're a total inspiration, I'm so glad you felt you could write all of that out for us.
Jamie xxoo
Member
Don't be silly, the more replies the better.
It's so easy for trans people to relate to my story because they've experienced something of it. I wonder how much of it weepy and other non-trans people can appreciate though. It must just seem insane and ridiculous to someone who has never really had to deal with any of it. People don't really seem to comprehend how much it matters that their gender and sex are aligned because most people never had an incongruity to deal with and don't have a reference to be able to imagine it.
It's so easy for trans people to relate to my story because they've experienced something of it. I wonder how much of it weepy and other non-trans people can appreciate though. It must just seem insane and ridiculous to someone who has never really had to deal with any of it. People don't really seem to comprehend how much it matters that their gender and sex are aligned because most people never had an incongruity to deal with and don't have a reference to be able to imagine it.
Jamie and NewGame coming in with the steal like always! And, Jamie, that is an incredible story. You are an extremely strong woman, and a valuable asset to this thread, and the knowledge base at large. You have every right to be extremely proud of who you are, because you made the "impossible" completely possible, and it shows.
As for being informed, I'm just a squirrel in y'alls world. That's it. I didn't quite understand this stuff about a year or so ago, myself, so I started looking things up. I had a lot of the same questions others had, because I, too, was equating gender with what was between your legs. The more I learned, the more stuff started to make sense, and the more comfortable I grew with even with myself. So, with that knowledge, I try to explain things the best I can and, hopefully, it makes sense.
As for being informed, I'm just a squirrel in y'alls world. That's it. I didn't quite understand this stuff about a year or so ago, myself, so I started looking things up. I had a lot of the same questions others had, because I, too, was equating gender with what was between your legs. The more I learned, the more stuff started to make sense, and the more comfortable I grew with even with myself. So, with that knowledge, I try to explain things the best I can and, hopefully, it makes sense.
I appreciate all of the answers and the hospitality and honesty in which they were presented. Thank you.
Alfarif, my question was never meant to sound as boxed-in as you've made it but like most people I see gender as boxes. As soon as we're born, we're placed in societal roles based on gender as either boy or girl. We never considered there to be a third or fourth option, but there is a minority here that do. Modern technology is just now allowing us to blur and even cross the biological roles set for men and women, I guess it's our way of trying to label things is all.
Alfarif said:
Alfarif, my question was never meant to sound as boxed-in as you've made it but like most people I see gender as boxes. As soon as we're born, we're placed in societal roles based on gender as either boy or girl. We never considered there to be a third or fourth option, but there is a minority here that do. Modern technology is just now allowing us to blur and even cross the biological roles set for men and women, I guess it's our way of trying to label things is all.
Weepy, I'm sorry if that sounded as if it was directed specifically at you. That's actually a response to how most people say that they would treat a MtF TG as a male (which makes me laugh, because these are the same guys who would walk up to a girl, ask for her number, and then do a double take when she says she's TG) It's also rhetorical. I was addressing something a bit broader than I think our intended question was asking, and I apologize for not making that evident in the rest of my response.
As you said, we do place things like gender into a box, but the idea of gender is so free form, it's as if the word almost loses its meaning these days. There's a larger question on whether we should, considering we never know what someone could have dangling between their legs. That's an archaic way of looking at things -- in just this thread, we have men and women who love different things that are outside of their gender roles, TG or not. The fluidity of gender needs to be rewritten, I think. I'm not nearly talented enough to begin to think of how to go about the idea of something like that, but I thought I would throw it out there, and let someone with a broader vocabulary consider it.
As you said, we do place things like gender into a box, but the idea of gender is so free form, it's as if the word almost loses its meaning these days. There's a larger question on whether we should, considering we never know what someone could have dangling between their legs. That's an archaic way of looking at things -- in just this thread, we have men and women who love different things that are outside of their gender roles, TG or not. The fluidity of gender needs to be rewritten, I think. I'm not nearly talented enough to begin to think of how to go about the idea of something like that, but I thought I would throw it out there, and let someone with a broader vocabulary consider it.
Instigator
Banned
I've been meaning to ask this question for a while...
What's the deal with transexuals and Jerry Springer?
I know the man does it for ratings, but it's like there is an unlimited supply of transexuals out there, just waiting to get on TV and humiliate their straight, clueless boyfriends.
What's the deal with transexuals and Jerry Springer?
I know the man does it for ratings, but it's like there is an unlimited supply of transexuals out there, just waiting to get on TV and humiliate their straight, clueless boyfriends.
NewGamePlus
Member
I kind of just want to ignore this question, but yes, there is practically an unlimited supply of idiots from all walks of life who will do any stupid thing to get on TV. You do realize that show is about on par with professional wrestling when it comes to realism?Instigator said:
Oh and I think there are probably a lot more transsexuals than you think there are.
Instigator
Banned
My guess is 1 in 100 including all people who feel strongly like they're the wrong gender.
Those who dress up to compensate are a fraction of that number. All the post-ops probably an even smaller fraction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvQ_SJc9FlU
You can follow that one with the related videos. She took her trans-anything beyond the Springer arena. Why use fake transexuals when you can get the real thing for next to nothing? The show can still be staged with these people.
Those who dress up to compensate are a fraction of that number. All the post-ops probably an even smaller fraction.
Alfarif said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvQ_SJc9FlU
You can follow that one with the related videos. She took her trans-anything beyond the Springer arena. Why use fake transexuals when you can get the real thing for next to nothing? The show can still be staged with these people.
NewGamePlus
Member
Then I don't get why you were asking the question, just felt like being facetious? Whatever, I should probably just go to bed.Instigator said:
Instigator
Banned
It's the official transgaf topic! Unless there was a Springer topic around, this is the place to ask such questions.
Instigator said:
And a quick Google of her, or anyone else who appears on that show, shows that they are all entertainers. Hardly representative of an entire community. Out of all the TG in America, barely 1% would want to participate in something like this. The same with little people, self-racist blacks, and whatever other paid entertainment Jerry has on his show.
Jamie xxoo
Member
Instigator said:
Here's my take on it.
When a woman is brought up in a ghetto she learns to be tough, mouthy and loud, she learns to base her self esteem on her sexuality, and she doesn't get the education to carry herself with respect. She thinks respect is given to those who shout the loudest, and who can show the most skin and get the most men.
When a transsexual woman is born into that environment, she can end up adopting the same idea of femininity, and the same behavior, and in the process becomes a spectacle. Jerry Springer lives off the exploitation of such people. In the process he perpetrates this stereotype that people now associate with the word transsexual, a stereotype that has nothing to do with me, and nothing to do with the majority of transsexuals who are as varied and "normal" as the rest of society.
Then there's the whole "shemale porn" industry and transsexual prostitution, perpetrating the stereotype of the hypersexual freakish "chick with a dick".
Many transgender people in lower socio-economic groups are made homeless when their parents find out. They have poor education, and they face massive employment discrimination. They turn to these industries as a way to survive. They are highly visible to the general public and again, become the image that people attach to the word "transsexual". It's true that there are also transsexuals who are educated and who have other opportunities but who want to experience being valued for their sexuality, and turn to porn or prostitution, just as there are genetic women who do the same.
These two stereotypes - the Jerry Springer transsexual and the she-male porn actress, lead to all sorts of assumptions and misunderstandings about transsexuals in general. I really don't know what percentage of transwomen are Jerry Springer/porn shemale/prostitute transsexuals, but I know there are a LOT of us who aren't anything like that at all.
So, if someone says they're trans, try to remember that "Jerry Springer" transsexuals are NOT the norm, and that odds are you're talking to a very vanilla, regular, everyday person. There are several transwomen in the videogaming industry by the way, and odds are you've played a game that a transwoman has worked on.
Jamie xxoo
Member
Instigator said:
Notice that in this video it comes out that she was kicked out of home at 16, which backs up just what I was saying in my last post.
Android18a
Member
The kicked out of home thing is something that particularly concerns me. I can really see it happening if I'm not careful, so I'm gonna need a good backup plan.
Davey Cakes
Member
I stumbled into this thread merely due to curiosity, but now I'm actually reminded of someone I once knew.
Back in high school, there was this kid in my grade who, through freshman and sophomore year, I thought was a boy. It wasn't until junior year that I shared a class with this kid and eventually found out that "her" name was Christen. Now, before this I had very little experience with trans folk, so it was a little shocking, but I'm quite a tolerant person so when I got to know her there really wasn't an issue at all. Christen was a very likable person.
During senior year "she" actually officially became a "he" and legally changed names from Christen to Christopher. It was in public speaking class where I sat behind him and noticed over time just how open he was about everything. He even brought up in conversations how he was considering getting fake genitals once "technology became good enough." Regardless of the practicality of the consideration, it's the openness that was impressive. I really admired the apparent acceptance that Christopher showed about his situation. And, this admiration only increased when it came time for the public speaking class to do their final presentations/speeches and Christopher decided to dedicate his presentation to talking about his life as a boy living in a girl's body and talking about goals for the future.
Now, I am a strong public speaker. In fact, I'd easily consider myself the best in that class, and I think everyone would. That said, Christopher at the time was the bravest. His speech showed a lot of pride, and it was very positive and hopeful in tone. Getting up to talk in front of a crowd of people is difficult, after all, even without this sort of subject matter.
After high school I fell out of contact with many of my fellow classmates. In the case of Christopher, I was his friend on Facebook, but that's it. This brings me to the sad part. Recently, I brought up Christopher in a conversation with one of my old high school pals, and it was revealed to me in this conversation that Chris committed suicide over a year ago.
How I wasn't informed sooner is beyond me.
I then took a look at the Facebook page and noticed that people were kindly still contributing words of support and love. It was touching for sure.
I'm not trying to depress anyone. Really, I just want you all to know just how important it is to continue on in life, regardless of hardships. Strive to achieve your goals. Suicide may seem like the easy way out, but it's not. It's extremely hard not just for you, but for everyone you know. Don't forget your family and friends. Don't forget that the people you know love you dearly. Regardless of your struggles with identity, even those people who seem intolerant would rather see you live life to its fullest than see you end it prematurely.
As someone who's not part of the trans group, I am ignorant of what you have to face on a daily basis. That said, if there's one thing I know, it's that life is the answer, not death.
Back in high school, there was this kid in my grade who, through freshman and sophomore year, I thought was a boy. It wasn't until junior year that I shared a class with this kid and eventually found out that "her" name was Christen. Now, before this I had very little experience with trans folk, so it was a little shocking, but I'm quite a tolerant person so when I got to know her there really wasn't an issue at all. Christen was a very likable person.
During senior year "she" actually officially became a "he" and legally changed names from Christen to Christopher. It was in public speaking class where I sat behind him and noticed over time just how open he was about everything. He even brought up in conversations how he was considering getting fake genitals once "technology became good enough." Regardless of the practicality of the consideration, it's the openness that was impressive. I really admired the apparent acceptance that Christopher showed about his situation. And, this admiration only increased when it came time for the public speaking class to do their final presentations/speeches and Christopher decided to dedicate his presentation to talking about his life as a boy living in a girl's body and talking about goals for the future.
Now, I am a strong public speaker. In fact, I'd easily consider myself the best in that class, and I think everyone would. That said, Christopher at the time was the bravest. His speech showed a lot of pride, and it was very positive and hopeful in tone. Getting up to talk in front of a crowd of people is difficult, after all, even without this sort of subject matter.
After high school I fell out of contact with many of my fellow classmates. In the case of Christopher, I was his friend on Facebook, but that's it. This brings me to the sad part. Recently, I brought up Christopher in a conversation with one of my old high school pals, and it was revealed to me in this conversation that Chris committed suicide over a year ago.
How I wasn't informed sooner is beyond me.
I then took a look at the Facebook page and noticed that people were kindly still contributing words of support and love. It was touching for sure.
I'm not trying to depress anyone. Really, I just want you all to know just how important it is to continue on in life, regardless of hardships. Strive to achieve your goals. Suicide may seem like the easy way out, but it's not. It's extremely hard not just for you, but for everyone you know. Don't forget your family and friends. Don't forget that the people you know love you dearly. Regardless of your struggles with identity, even those people who seem intolerant would rather see you live life to its fullest than see you end it prematurely.
As someone who's not part of the trans group, I am ignorant of what you have to face on a daily basis. That said, if there's one thing I know, it's that life is the answer, not death.
Jamie xxoo
Member
Thank you for your post Rash, that was wonderful. It's a topic I can't really cope with right now. I'm coming up to the 3 year anniversary of my ex-partner's sister's suicide in 2 weeks and it has been on my mind constantly. I can't describe the devastation it left behind or how it permanently changed her family, or how many people it deeply affected. She was like a sister to me and it was a traumatic experience. You're completely right, life is always the answer. No matter how painful it will be to get through it, suicide creates far more pain when you go, more than any one person can contain.
weepy said:
I originally wasn't going to reply to this, since it's already had some great answers given, but I guess I'm going to after all.
I'm going through this right now - well, no children, but I'm currently married (for about two and a half years). Do I feel selfish in thinking about transitioning, and in doing so, putting an end to my marriage? Absolutely. That thought completely tears me up inside, and makes me hate myself far more than I would normally going through this.
At the same time, as much as I love her, I've come to realize that I can't be the husband my wife wants and needs in this state. When you can't live with yourself, and be happy with who you are, you can't make others happy. Every day that I wake up, before anything else the day has to throw my way, I have to put on an act, pretend to be something that I'm not, and after years and years of doing that I'm exhausted. Things you (and others) take for granted are things we're forced to struggle with. Can you imagine having to pretend to be the sex that you are, day in and day out, and what that could do to your ability to give others around you what they need from you?
It's like... imagine being in, say, the witness protection program, where you'll plopped down into a house with a spouse and children, where every day you have to take care never to reveal your true self, instead playing the role that's been given to you. Who you really are, your true feelings on things, likes and dislikes, hopes and dreams, all of that has to stay hidden out of fear of others finding out who you really are.
In that situation, how effective do you think you would be at fulfilling your part of that family?
CharlieDigital
Banned
Jamie xxoo said:This is me today:
Is there a before pic? I ask because you look very feminine (facial structure, lips) and I'm just curious what you looked like before.
Also, are you/have you dated men since? Gay or straight? How do you approach revealing your transition?
CharlieDigital said:
It's a valid question, but there are a decent amount of trans folk who pretty much destroy any and all links they have to their former selves (photos, video, whatever). To them, those things are just bad memories of the prison they were locked in for so long, and they never want to look back.
But yeah, Jamie looks amazing.
Android18a
Member
Yeah, she's gorgeous =0
I'm not sure I'd keep pics of my current self once I was fulltime female. They're not pictures I'd want someone to dig up in ten years time and make my life hell with.
Although at the same time, some of those photos hold dear memories of lost loved ones, fondly remembered holidays... might print a few and keep them in an album, perhaps.
I'm not sure I'd keep pics of my current self once I was fulltime female. They're not pictures I'd want someone to dig up in ten years time and make my life hell with.
Although at the same time, some of those photos hold dear memories of lost loved ones, fondly remembered holidays... might print a few and keep them in an album, perhaps.
Trans-angst incoming: I was just outside talking to my Mom. As some of you know I'm planning to get an apartment soon. And she's dead set on buying me a set of bedroom furniture. She was telling me about a deal she got a set yesterday and in describing it to me she goes " It's just real contemporary! It doesn't look girly at all!"
...Fuuuuuuuuuuu~ -.-;
...Fuuuuuuuuuuu~ -.-;
Jamie xxoo
Member
@CharlieDigital I totally understand the curiosity and the natural inclination to treat someone's transition like a spectacle or a magic trick, and I'm not offended that you would ask for a "before" pic, but I don't pull them out to show just anyone. Some people love to show off how far they've come, but I just don't want to have those old images associated with me in a stranger's eyes. Now that I'm starting to look like the woman I was always wired in my head to be, I want my current image to be associated with me, not my old one, which never represented who I felt I was. Does that make sense?
I haven't dated yet. They'll be straight, bi or pansexual guys when I start. Gay guys wont touch me with a 10 foot pole. Look at me. There's nothing there for them to be attracted to.
I don't know how I'd bring it up with a potential date - well I do, but it's an organic thing that requires back and forth conversation and can't be scripted out easily for a post. It would go differently every time depending on the situation and the guy - but I'd always make sure they know that I have a past and anomalies about my body that make intimacy difficult before anything happened. They'd date me anyway. I'm adorable IRL.
Thanks everyone who posted and complimented me. I can't believe how supportive you all are.
I haven't dated yet. They'll be straight, bi or pansexual guys when I start. Gay guys wont touch me with a 10 foot pole. Look at me. There's nothing there for them to be attracted to.
I don't know how I'd bring it up with a potential date - well I do, but it's an organic thing that requires back and forth conversation and can't be scripted out easily for a post. It would go differently every time depending on the situation and the guy - but I'd always make sure they know that I have a past and anomalies about my body that make intimacy difficult before anything happened. They'd date me anyway. I'm adorable IRL.
Thanks everyone who posted and complimented me. I can't believe how supportive you all are.
