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[CrocMother]

I only have one strong emotion when it comes to bisexuals: jealousy.

 

[iirate]

I only have one strong emotion when it comes to bisexuals: jealousy.

Yep. That.

 

[alysonwheel]

So I'm taking a trans issues class at Uni and I have to say it is really terrible the way LGB have thrown you guys under the bus in the past.

Kind of an interesting interview with one of the trans women from the Stonewall riots here, about how the UK LGB organisation that took its name from those riots explicitly doesn't cover trans people.

(Sorry if it's been linked here before.)

 

[Dead Man]

Kind of an interesting interview with one of the trans women from the Stonewall riots here, about how the UK LGB organisation that took its name from those riots explicitly doesn't cover trans people.

(Sorry if it's been linked here before.)

What the hell? That is pretty weak.

 

[zon]

I've got a question for the trans people here. On the internet the vast majority of trans people all seem to be MTF, I've seen/heard of very few FTM. Is there such a big difference irl too or is it more even?

 

[alysonwheel]

Hard to say really. Some places I've hung out irl and on the web are way more slanted towards trans guys: livejournal communities, political stuff, etc.

 

[lexi]

Yeah the communities are vastly different, for instance I don't think there's any transguys on GAF.

I'd say overall it probably skews toward MTF.

 

[Amalthea]

Why shouldn't bi exist anyway. As long as people can fall in love with each other even without desiring them sexually, everything is possible.

 

[zon]

Ok, then my follow-up question is; has then been any research done to try and understand why it seems to happen more often among one gender than the other?

 

[tiff]

Why shouldn't bi exist anyway. As long as people can fall in love with each other even without desiring them sexually, everything is possible.

People are close-minded.

 

[alysonwheel]

Ok, then my follow-up question is; has then been any research done to try and understand why it seems to happen more often among one gender than the other?

In the past, it was assumed that there were more trans women than trans men, but a Swedish study estimated a ratio of 1.4:1 in favour of trans women for those requesting sex reassignment surgery and a ratio of 1:1 for those who proceeded.

It seems the gap is narrowing. I wouldn't be surprised if some would-be trans men don't go on to transition because the lesbian community is accepting of butches and they can find comfort and support there, where the same strength of feeling in a trans woman would lead her to transition.

 

[Amalthea]

People are close-minded.

Yes, but minds can't change the circumstances.

 

[CrocMother]

Here is an interview with the transwoman who was beaten at McDonalds:

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhfW29wSuLvJyN9c47

Unfortunately it is at that awful site, if someone finds a youtube I'll change it.

 

[alysonwheel]

Unfortunately it is at that awful site, if someone finds a youtube I'll change it.

This looks like the same video, I haven't watched it yet tho.

 

[Dead Man]

Just a heads up- http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=428329 New thread about the McDonalds beating, this interview video is on the OP in there. Already some pretty shabby comments.

 

[Nishastra]

Just a heads up- http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=428329 New thread about the McDonalds beating, this interview video is on the OP in there. Already some pretty shabby comments.

I doubt it'll end up as bad as the last one if only for the fact that the main offenders from that one got banned shortly after the thread was locked.

 

[Dead Man]

I doubt it'll end up as bad as the last one if only for the fact that the main offenders from that one got banned shortly after the thread was locked.

Hope so, I'm already arguing in there, I need to calm down a bit! :lol

 

[tiff]

I doubt it'll end up as bad as the last one if only for the fact that the main offenders from that one got banned shortly after the thread was locked.

I wish I could be as optimistic about internet forums.

 

[InfiniteNine]

I doubt it'll end up as bad as the last one if only for the fact that the main offenders from that one got banned shortly after the thread was locked.

Yeah, but it is already getting started so I'm not optimistic.

 

[Nishastra]

Hope so, I'm already arguing in there, I need to calm down a bit! :lol

I'm not even going to read it. I'm about to go eat ham and cake with relatives, the last thing I need is to be freaking out about the opinions of some dork on GAF

I wish I could be as optimistic about internet forums.

I don't think I'm optimistic. In fact, my opinion of internet people in general is pretty low. But on GAF at least I know the bad ones won't stick around for long.

In fact, if you look at the updated rules for 2011 that are stickied everywhere, "anti-transgendered remarks" are specifically bannable.


Edit: To clarify a bit more before I go... It's not so much that I think that any such thread will be good, but rather that the last one was very, very bad.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Well on a different note... Any tips on voice practice? I've pretty much just been occasionally been reading posts out loud or singing along with something I've been listening to so far. It'll probably be a while before I get mine satisfactory, but I've been wondering how everyone else worked on this.

 

[Amalthea]

Well on a different note... Any tips on voice practice? I've pretty much just been occasionally been reading posts out loud or singing along with something I've been listening to so far. It'll probably be a while before I get mine satisfactory, but I've been wondering how everyone else worked on this.

Talking to a cat helps me. lol

 

[alysonwheel]

Well on a different note... Any tips on voice practice?

There's several ways to raise the pitch and change the timbre of your voice, but they all have one thing in common: male voices resonate in the chest and in the lower part of the throat; female voices resonate in the mouth and upper part of the throat.

Put a hand on your chest and another on your throat, and speak normally, then speak in falsetto. When you speak in falsetto you should feel a lack of vibrations in your chest and lower throat. Obviously falsetto isn't a voice you can actually use day to day but hopefully this'll give you an idea of what it feels like to get your voice out of your chest.

A lot of videos describe the method of developing your falsetto voice, pushing its range down to normal speaking pitches and increasing its expression. It seems like it works well but I can't comment on it as it's not how I did it.

The way my speech therapist taught me was to sing "aaaah" and hum at the very top of my non-falsetto range, project as far out as I could, keep pushing the sound forward until I couldn't feel any vibrations below my upper throat, then turn that singing note into talking. I did that at home and in the car, and I found my female voice that way. Because I came at it "from below" -- compared to starting with falsetto and working down I started with the top of my male range and worked up -- I sounded much deeper when I talked when I first got the hang of it than I do now, but because I was pushing the voice out without vibrations in my chest, I passed.

(hope this isn't a total overkill post, I didn't mean to write this much but the other half is asleep and I'm bored...)

 

[Dead Man]

There's several ways to raise the pitch and change the timbre of your voice, but they all have one thing in common: male voices resonate in the chest and in the lower part of the throat; female voices resonate in the mouth and upper part of the throat.

Put a hand on your chest and another on your throat, and speak normally, then speak in falsetto. When you speak in falsetto you should feel a lack of vibrations in your chest and lower throat. Obviously falsetto isn't a voice you can actually use day to day but hopefully this'll give you an idea of what it feels like to get your voice out of your chest.

A lot of videos describe the method of developing your falsetto voice, pushing its range down to normal speaking pitches and increasing its expression. It seems like it works well but I can't comment on it as it's not how I did it.

The way my speech therapist taught me was to sing "aaaah" and hum at the very top of my non-falsetto range, project as far out as I could, keep pushing the sound forward until I couldn't feel any vibrations below my upper throat, then turn that singing note into talking. I did that at home and in the car, and I found my female voice that way. Because I came at it "from below" -- compared to starting with falsetto and working down I started with the top of my male range and worked up -- I sounded much deeper when I talked when I first got the hang of it than I do now, but because I was pushing the voice out without vibrations in my chest, I passed.

(hope this isn't a total overkill post, I didn't mean to write this much but the other half is asleep and I'm bored...)

That sounds like hard work!

Edit: Listened to the video, you just sound like a UK girl to me. Amazing what hard work can do!

 

[InfiniteNine]

(hope this isn't a total overkill post, I didn't mean to write this much but the other half is asleep and I'm bored...)

No, it was very informative! Seems like a more natural way to go about it anyways and I think I'll give it a shot. It'll be easier for me to get some more practice in with the roommates around. I'm pretty much used to shutting up every time I hear a door start to open so the humming kinda works better for me when I'm doing things outside my own room. :lol

 

[shadyspace]

I'm straight but would be completely into and comfortable with dating a MTF transsexual (including pre-ops). Anybody here with any experience in this area?

 

[Nishastra]

(hope this isn't a total overkill post, I didn't mean to write this much but the other half is asleep and I'm bored...)

No way! That post was beyond useful.

I need to work on my voice, and any info I can get on good ways to do so is a great help.

 

[tiff]

(hope this isn't a total overkill post, I didn't mean to write this much but the other half is asleep and I'm bored...)

No, all of your posts in this thread have been incredibly helpful! Don't worry about it.

 

[Amalthea]

I'm straight but would be completely into and comfortable with dating a MTF transsexual (including pre-ops). Anybody here with any experience in this area?

Yeah, it would be interesting to hear if someone here ever had a relationship.

 

[lexi]

I didn't see any speech professionals and the initial falsetto method Alyson described wasn't really working for me either. Voice was one of the things that scared me most about transition, on top of all the other worries I had at the time. I just didn't think I would be capable of doing anything and even if I ended up passing appearance-wise, my voice would give me away. It was something I worked on fervently, and definitely caused a lot of stress. If I can assuage the doubts of others here; it IS possible.

The method I used was really just experimenting and seeing what sounds my voice could actually make and working on that from there. I recorded myself testing out what kind of sounds I was making and just fined tuned it from there, introducing nasal and 'croaky' aspects to fine tune the sound that was coming out.

I could probably end up with a better result if I saw a professional, but.. I kinda have a 'set' voice now that people know, it'd be kinda weird if I changed my voice.

I personally don't think I sound that great but I'm gendered female 100% of the time on the phone (I work somewhere where I'm on the phone 50% of the time) and don't get any weird / second glances when I'm out and about.

 

[alysonwheel]

I personally don't think I sound that great but I'm gendered female 100% of the time on the phone (I work somewhere where I'm on the phone 50% of the time) and don't get any weird / second glances when I'm out and about.

Heh, I started voice training at the same time as a friend who worked in a call centre, and she got her voice set twice as fast as I did, just from talking all the time at work

tbh I always think I sound awful in my head, I'm always asking my partner if my voice sounds okay, but my voice hasn't outed me (as far as I know) in nearly a decade.

 

[lexi]

tbh I always think I sound awful in my head, I'm always asking my partner if my voice sounds okay, but my voice hasn't outed me (as far as I know) in nearly a decade.

I would agree with this. It's always fun speaking with people with which I have things in my former name (my car, for one) and they always ask to speak to 'old name'.

 

[alysonwheel]

Haha yeah.

"Can I speak to [old name]?"
"Speaking."
"No madam, I'm sorry, but I need to speak to [old name]."
"Yes, that's me."
"It's clearly not."
/sigh
/explanation
/uncomfortable silence

Getting stuff done in person after I'd been on the hormones a while was a whole extra level of fun

 

[lexi]

Once I actually tried 'Okay they'll call you back' and called back attempting a deeper voice. They laughed at me and told me they'd only speak with 'old name'

And yes, had heaps of awkward in-person experiences along this line too.

 

[Shurs]

It was an early age, probably around kindergarten age. It wasn't a problem though until the usual gender segregation occurs throughout early school, this is when I knew there was an issue with my gender / body.

Sorry if I'm not articulating my thought properly, but how did you know what it felt like to be a girl? Or what other girls felt like?

I ask because I guess I've never really thought "damn, I feel like a man, and this is what all men feel like."

Granted, I definitely have never thought I was meant to be a woman, and I enjoy being a man-- I like things that society has conditioned me to believe that men should enjoy, but I've never felt like I knew how other men, or all men felt.

I just am what I am, which happens to be a man.

Don't know if that makes sense.

 

[Songbird]

(hope this isn't a total overkill post, I didn't mean to write this much but the other half is asleep and I'm bored...)

Wow, we've got the BBC's next top broadcaster right here! I decided to pop in after posting on a certain other thread and this caught my eye. You see, I'm a straight male with a pretty serious hang-up about my own voice being "high" and perhaps feminine. My efforts to force myself to deepen mine never really worked but it made me smile that people are really getting to sound like they want to. Kudos to you all

 

[lexi]

You can probably appreciate it's difficult to describe a feeling. It was a feeling of wrongness, and it intensified as time went on. It became something I was bullied for, appearing and acting in a way not suiting boys. Everything was fair game, I was mocked for apparently not even walking like a boy should.

Over this period I tried to become 'normal' I observed boys and watched how they acted and interacted and I imitated it to try and fit in. This did lead to some relenting of the intensity of bullying but it was definitely still present. Throughout high school I continued acting this way and repressing any and all of my feelings otherwise. I became depressed and started overeating for many years after. The worst it got, I was unemployed, morbidly obese and suicidal.

I got help around this point and steered my life in what I now know was definitely the right direction.

I don't even know if this answers your questions it feels like I just went on a tangent.

 

[Shurs]

You can probably appreciate it's difficult to describe a feeling. It was a feeling of wrongness, and it intensified as time went on. It became something I was bullied for, appearing and acting in a way not suiting boys. Everything was fair game, I was mocked for apparently not even walking like a boy should.

Over this period I tried to become 'normal' I observed boys and watched how they acted and interacted and I imitated it to try and fit in. This did lead to some relenting of the intensity of bullying but it was definitely still present. Throughout high school I continued acting this way and repressing any and all of my feelings otherwise. I became depressed and started overeating for many years after. The worst it got, I was unemployed, morbidly obese and suicidal.

I got help around this point and steered my life in what I now know was definitely the right direction.

I don't even know if this answers your questions it feels like I just went on a tangent.

No worries about post length. I appreciate you taking the time to convey you thoughts.

I'm considering a Transgender female character for a screenplay that I'm currently brainstorming and I know I need to do a lot of research to present the character in a realistic and respectful manner.

I'm going to have a bunch of questions over the next few weeks and hope this thread could be a place in which I can safely get some answers.

 

[Stellares]

Its basically a feeling that the body you are in is not yours. Its hard to look in the mirror and its always uncomfortable in your skin. I feel happier as a female and more comfortable with myself, my body and my social interactions. Before I had to learn how to act as a male and repress my feelings, now I feel more relaxed and able to express myself. I first had the feelings when I was around 8. The more I repressed it, the more it came back and even worse each time until I had to do something about it, which was transitioning.

 

[Dead Man]

Once I actually tried 'Okay they'll call you back' and called back attempting a deeper voice. They laughed at me and told me they'd only speak with 'old name'

And yes, had heaps of awkward in-person experiences along this line too.

That's hilarious!

 

[CrocMother]

No worries about post length. I appreciate you taking the time to convey you thoughts.

I'm considering a Transgender female character for a screenplay that I'm currently brainstorming and I know I need to do a lot of research to present the character in a realistic and respectful manner.

I'm going to have a bunch of questions over the next few weeks and hope this thread could be a place in which I can safely get some answers.

I'm curious how you intend your screenplay to work given the lack of transwomen screen actors.

 

[Stellares]

A cis person can act as a trans person. Its been done many times before.

 

[Shurs]

I'm curious how you intend your screenplay to work given the lack of transwomen screen actors.

Good question.

I don't really want to talk about the plot on the internet, but casting (if it's ever produced) won't be a problem.

All I can say is that it's more about what's inside of the characters than their outward appearance, which is why I'm looking more for intellectual/emotional authenticity than anything else.

 

[Platy]

The problem with most scripts in that sense is that it starts with "a men who dress as a woman" ... and not "a girl who was forced to wear boy clothes". This is insanely easier for you to imagine than the other.

Feel what you would feel if you were forced to wear girl clothes (imagining that you are a guy) and didn't had genital .... and suddenly you start bleeding and feeling cramps and having mood swings !

Feels good ? =3

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Oh man, Lexi totally demolished that troll thread, in a good way. I saw a couple pages back that you got some flak for it, but I don't think it's justified. Isn't it funny how the marginalized group is always the one asked to ensure civility of discussion? No one even considers that an emotional response might be justified because of someone questioning the legitimacy of someone's gender identity- to say nothing of the person who said anyone reasonable would be crazy to leave their kid alone with a trans person! I don't think you have to apologize for your behavior in that thread, if only because responding to rancor with rancor is sometimes justified.

But more importantly than that, I think it's pretty unfair to expect the burden of education and outreach to rest solely on the marginalized group's shoulders. I understand the importance of trying to win hearts and minds, but it also seems pretty unlikely that the people Lexi were responding to had any possibility of changing their minds. Given that, snarky responses might be the best way of rallying the troops and just staying sane. I'm not trans, but I've found that kind of armor critical to maintaining good emotional functioning in the face of a society that dehumanizes me, and personally, I enjoyed reading LExi's evisceration of those hateful attitudes.

Just my two cents.

 

[lexi]

No, no, it's not the first time somebody has said I'm too acerbic and snarky. I'm endeavoring to be nicer. It's hard though, snark and sarcasm comes so easily!

 

[Platy]

That thread (and specialy the other) makes me feel that there is a need for the mods to specify more in the rules what "anti-transgendered remarks" are ....

 

[Nishastra]

No, no, it's not the first time somebody has said I'm too acerbic and snarky. I'm endeavoring to be nicer. It's hard though, snark and sarcasm comes so easily!

I'm the same way. Sarcasm is like my primary method of communication. My secondary method of communication is "".

A couple of years ago I realized that I had just become... mean, and since then I've been trying to be both nicer and more social (because I also have a tendency to be stupidly shy, so I'd basically only ever get up the courage to speak at all when I had something mean to say), and I think I've been doing a good job of it. Not just online, either, although I certainly am posting a lot these days by my standards, and I don't think I've posted anything really bad in... about half a year (almost did in that first McDonald's thread)

 

[tiff]

That thread (and specialy the other) makes me feel that there is a need for the mods to specify more in the rules what "anti-transgendered remarks" are ....

I was going to say weed them out by letting them find out for themselves, but someone just dropped tranny in the other thread so maybe a list of "Things that will get you banned" wouldn't be such a bad idea.

 

[shadyspace]

What threads are you guys talking about?