It will never be an issue in the Olympics unless the rules are changed, because they segregate based on gender, and verify using gender determination.
Nope. No way.
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Transgender Teen (Male to Female) Wins 3rd Place in Race;Girls' Mothers Mad
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It will never be an issue in the Olympics unless the rules are changed, because they segregate based on gender, and verify using gender determination.
Nope. No way.
Horsemama1956
Member
You still have to work your ass off to get there. Not everyone mentally can do it. You may have a massive injury that ends it. All kinds of factors go in. Someone born with great genetics isn't automatically going to win gold at the Olympics and hoist a pro sports trophy.
That is why genetics isn't a factor. The best athlete does NOT always win. A wet sock could cost a number 1 ranked tennis player a finals.
Maybe in a few cases, but nobody would like it.
GreatestHits
Member
Yeah, the even trickier part is how we use sports as a societal construct... I feel at the child level we should place mental and social well-being as the high priorities, and not the perfect system for judging who's the best (though that part is still important because it's a paradigm of modern life)
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
This wouldn't turn out very well for women in pro sports/Olympics.
The two are split because of innate physical differences. I think transgender people should have to compete in the gender they were born into. I understand that going into bathrooms of a gender you don't identify with being really awkward, but sports isn't the same, at least at a competitive level.
How naïve you must be if you think this is a good idea.
Correct. I see bone structure as the big issue here- going through male puberty leaves you with one that's naturally advantageous and it's something that isn't reversible w/ hormones. (Muscle mass will decay naturally on them.) Girl's Cross Country running has the highest injury rate of any high school sport.
QuantumZebra
Member
Um, what?
Pound for pound, the more skilled fighter will win.
Anyone saying otherwise, like you are, clearly is not looking at it in that light.
I feel that they have good reason to be upset. The divide of sexes in sports is largely because men and women are physiologically different. If men and women competed in the same leagues, you'd barely have any women about to get a spot over men. Genetics just play too big of a role here. So even if this person feels like a woman trapped in a man's body, she still has a man's body.
I was using an hypothetical example. The fact that I had to is why no one should be worried about this at all.
EDIT: omfg Ronda Rousey again...
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
True, but that shouldn't matter. Are transgendered people not to be considered for scholarships?
Also, the whole sports scholarship thing bugs me way more than allowing transgendered people on sports teams.
You would be fine with 95%+ of all sporting success to go to guys?
The biological advantage in muscle growth, density, energy conversion, attachment points and dozens of other biological attributes will never be undone. Men evolved over thousands of generations to be bigger, faster, stronger... A few decades of more liberal thinking towards gender and identity is not going to have any impact on that.
To be fair though events that favour short bursts and reaction time (80/100m sprint for example) could be pretty close so there could be some mixed events but still, I just can't see it working. By the time you get to pure endurance events like marathons the difference is far too vast.
Not even remotely the same thing (competitively -wsie)
this sounds about as good as you can get it makes sense to me.
That's why I added "opportunity", which is as random as genetics.
In case I wasn't being explicit enough I don't care much for the "competitive purity" of sports because I don't think it exists. I watch the Olympics on occasion to appreciate human athleticism, but that's all.
Horsemama1956
Member
She got smoked by someone who is most likely a scrub? WTF I don't understand how things like this are so hard for people to compute?
Huh . I'm pretty sure male and female sprinters aren't classified by height weight etc it's not like boxin or wrestling spring has to do with stuff like amount of fast twitch muscles you have etc. Would be hard to classify that way
Jack Random
Member
are you trying to get people killed?
I don't think these are similar situations at all. Black people don't have an inherent advantage in competing.
It just comes down to this.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
Uh, nope, she doesn't. She is now female, but was once male and retains some of those biological advantages. It isn't fair to the rest of the women.
You cannot compare this to black athletes, it's totally different.
I was assuming something around the 12-13 age range too, except for early bloomers there is not much difference physically between girls and boys at that age, an hypothetical kid transitioning around that age wouldn't have that much advantage in the field of athletism compared to their peers, specially if they're aiming for a transition before puberty is completed (which im under the understanding that it is a best case thing for transitioning.)
QuantumZebra
Member
What did I say that was funny?
I'm 6'2/230lbs and have fought most of my life... I guarantee you I would get fucking obliterated by Rousey or Ali.
It takes a special kind of stupid to think that a guy who is the same size as a girl will win just because he's a guy.
I am sorry, I should have worded my post more carefully. Writing posts on your phone on the bus is a bad idea. I wasn't as nuanced as I should have been there. No offense to anyone was intended.
entremet
Member
Bone density which increases not only striking power but the ability to take strikes., thicker dermis layers, more power behind punches, etc.
Please stop.
We're at a point where the "baseline" for athletics is encountering difficulties.
Whether through illicit means like doping, or through identity issues like prosthetics or transgender individuals.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
This is another issue entirely, but as we blur the lines of artificial limbs and cybernetic enhancement, there will eventually be a day where we have to say "this enhancement rules you ineligible to compete in this activity, because the physical/mental advantage renders competition meaningless."
Gender dysphoria is people in the wrong body.
Transitioning is inherently a biological and physical process, because you get hormone therapy for like 2 years before surgery. For younger people, they can get hormone suppresants to avoid the more intense effects of puberty, while waiting to get physical operations as an adult.
So if you claim yourself as trans, you are 99% sure to be on medication, the other 1% being people who can"t afford it or haven't begun transitioning.
Given equal skill, the stronger fighter will generally win. Rousey couldn't beat any male fighter in the top 20 at bantamweight.
Basileus777
Member
Men's physical advantage isn't just body mass, though they have a significant edge even there due to body fat percentages. Weight classes would do little to level the playing field.
They should, but thats the rub. Do they compete as the gender assignment or gender identity
No one is arguing that.
maybe you should train some ufc bro
QuantumZebra
Member
Considering I've seen women beat the shit out of guys their size or bigger (Rousey was almost arrested for beating the hell out of 2 football players in high school), no, I'm not stopping. Thanks for asking.
Then explain the people going "lol just stop" with absolutely no ground to stand on. And see above.
Maybe you should post something relevant instead of shitposting, bro.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I wonder if there's some sort of term that could describe this type of biological difference other than men and women. If we're going to accept trans-women as women, the terminology just doesn't sound right to tell women they're banned from the women's league and have to join the men's team.
Maybe this sounds silly, but the whole problem could be solved if you just called it something like the x league and y league, and remove the gender aspect altogether.
Maybe this sounds silly, but the whole problem could be solved if you just called it something like the x league and y league, and remove the gender aspect altogether.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
No it isn't. They are completely different.
I want everyone to be treated fairly too, the question here is if you actually can with trans athletes.
If you're talking about treating people fairly, maybe think about the other female athletes. Is it fair to them?
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Once again, men and women are built extremely differently. You think women in pro sports would want to have to compete against men? Every woman in the WNBA would suddenly be jobless.
look at world record holders in the 100. men have it by almost a full second. which is a lot in 100m dash. almost 2 seconds in the 200.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
In this thread, we have people who played a sport at a competitive level and people who have not.
entremet
Member
Football players are not fighters.
We're talking about similar caliber of athlete competing against each other. Not some randos.
You realize that a 150lbs man is way stronger and faster than a 150lbs woman, right?
She got beat by Holly Holms ffs.
Those terms yes, but when it comes to sporting No
As far as where she should compete. Im honestly unsure right now. Its a tough one
There are a lot more physical differences between men and women than just size.
Competitive sports are extremely fair. Biological men compete against each other and bioligcal women compete against each other. Ability is the difference. Someone being more talented and more athletic is not unfair.
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