Athletics never have been a level playing field. There's Always genetic advantages.
Transgender Teen (Male to Female) Wins 3rd Place in Race;Girls' Mothers Mad
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Athletics never have been a level playing field. There's Always genetic advantages.
Wrong, I was just reading a case about a 12 year old who started HRT.
So much ignorance in this thread, it's pretty mindblowing.
QuantumZebra
Member
And you can say with a straight face that Holly Holm wouldn't beat a male fighter of her size if he wasn't as skilled as her?
There are plenty of male/male fights where the guy who is far bigger, longer, stronger, still loses (look at some of Brock Lesnar's fights).
Azzurri
Member
Lol, please a trained MMA male fighter in the same weight division would literally kill her.
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
I'd say identity.
Out of curiosity, do countries where college is paid by taxpayers, do they need to offer sports scholarships? It just seems that, in America, many parents place a ridiculous amount of effort toward getting athletic scholarships, which, if removed, <might> alleviate some of the concerns here. Maybe I'm naive.
Reminds me of a bit from a Red Dwarf book, a Scottish goalkeeper is engineered to be a 7x2m rectangle but they still fail to qualify.
Who will beat most natural born women due to not always being a young woman and may find herself defeated by someone who decided a year later in life to undergo the medical changes to qualify as a biological woman. The issue is really not that simple.
It happens to the german national team as well.
They regularily loose vs. high school-aged teams
entremet
Member
But we already do level the playing field. There are pros, amateurs, weight classes, and so on.
Why are you comparing fighters to average joes? This is about two skilled individuals in there given sport and she would most definitely not beat another male athlete.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
It's not like we have 100 million misplaced transgendered athletes. There's only a handful of times this has ever been and will ever be an "issue." Tell the parents to suck it up and treat this as a learning moment for their children.
C'mon man, this is like Goku vs. Superman levels of dumb speculation.
TelemachusD
Member
It's similar to the rare case of the legless wrestler. He's at an enormous advantage because the other people in his weight class are much smaller/less muscular than him and a lot of moves are useless against him and there's not really any way you can prepare for it. Should he be wrestling against other amputees only?
It's not some conspiracy that the status quo says this isn't true. There's a reason why it's common sense.
Yes. I have seen Holly Holm fight and I've seen male MMA fighters her size fight. There's no comparison. There's not a single male MMA fighter whose less skilled than Holly Holm.
Even an amateur fighter who had slightly less skill would just dominate her based on his strenght and quickness advantages
QuantumZebra
Member
You clearly don't fight.
If that "trained MMA male fighter" was a ground guy and he couldn't get ahold of her, then she would fucking destroy him with the same kick she took out Rousey with.
If that fighter was in the same tier and had striking ability, then yes I would definitely bet on him.
It all depends on skillset.
I'm not. I'm comparing skill levels. Holly Holm or Rousey would fucking obliterate a male MMA fighter that wasn't on their level, skill-wise. That is the only point I am making.
HawksWinStanley
Member
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert here, but I can't imagine any of this is accurate. A male and female pro fighter in the same weight class would have a minimal performance difference? Eh, no. I'd gladly take you up on that bet of Rousey or Ali being able to demolish any male pro fighter in their weight class.
Horsemama1956
Member
There is definitely a gap at such a young age, most people probably saw it in gym class.
I don't really know how it affects the body, but I don't think you're going to be at your best during a transition which again eliminates all but a few certain age groups(generally high school, or the few grades before).
I'm not sure someone can really transition early enough to change that. There has to be some kind of limit that a doctor would trust what the patient wants or thinks, no?
Anyone who's ever followed womens' sports will tell you that, yes.
When that "body" would be impossible or near impossible to attain for young cis women despite all the efforts in the world, you can't just shrug it off and say "the end".
Not all weight is equal.
Not any bum off the street. There is no way Rousey could beat a male athlete of similar weight, talent and training.
entremet
Member
I agree, but the scholarship equation is probably what has the parent's complaining.
Yes, but with the physiological advantages of a man and therefore unfair to the other woman that are competing.
Azzurri
Member
And I would bet a million dollars that a top 10 HS boys basketball team would destroy the Uconn girls college team.
On NeoGAF?
Yup, but average joes who occasionally play hockey wouldn't be able to beat professional female players. It's the same thing with the fighting debate going on in this thread.
This. The conversation has always been about athletes competing with other athletes.
jacob armitage
Banned
I think this is the best take way from the expressed opinions for me, thanks Zulithe.
Actually puberty blockers can issued as soon as you reach Tanner Stage II (very and full HRT at 16. Anything under that needs parental support
Ganzlinger
Member
If you separate the athletes due biological reasons in the first place, I think you shouldn't use gender as an excuse. It would be nice, we could see men and women disputing the same race, regardless of their gender orientation.
There was a famous poster who was permabanned for this line of reasoning.
By saying this, you are saying that the only reason why men are performing better than women in sports with similar weight class is that they didn't train/learn as much as the men did. That undermines how much effort the women athletes put into their sports.
IISANDERII
Member
This is going to be a much larger issue in the future as gene therapy, eugenics, genetic modification etc becomes more and more a reality.
I agree i'm all for people doing what they want with their lives but i just don't see this as being fair.
QuantumZebra
Member
A. I already said that if they were equivalent skill-wise, I would bet on the male fighter.
B. There is definitely a way. Any fight can go any way. Now the odds may be stacked, but there is definitely a way.
Wow, making subtle threats now?
Fighting is a totally different ballgame from most athletics. It is *far* more skill dependent with other factors being equal, than say Basketball or Football. I can't fathom how this is hard to process.
GreatestHits
Member
The thread, its-a-melt-ing
No it isn't.
This seems like something that would be traumatizing to a trans teen though.
Jack Random
Member
lets imagine for a minute that this young woman makes it to the olympics someday (i realize this is beyond unlikely, but lets roll with it).
So she utterly crushes every female record that she competes in.
now what?
therealist
Member
I don't think there is an argument that males are physically superior to women. There are exceptions to every rule like Rousey being able to kick my ass in a second but in general, there is a reason why all the swim records, track records, weight-lifting records, and so on all belong to men. In many cases the times aren't even close.
Let's say you did combine all men and women in track and field, no woman would ever be able to compete again on the Olympic stage, because no woman would have a time that would qualify for competition. Removing the gender distinction effectively takes all women's sports and recognition away from them.
Let's say you did combine all men and women in track and field, no woman would ever be able to compete again on the Olympic stage, because no woman would have a time that would qualify for competition. Removing the gender distinction effectively takes all women's sports and recognition away from them.
Uh, what? I sure hope that doesn't become a reality.
But yes, as we get better at tinkering with genetics, there's definitely gonna be a lot of controversy where it intersects with athletics.
JensenBeeswax
Member
I wanted to say something like 'imagine this being MMA instead of running' without reading the whole thread, but beaten, I guess.
Basileus777
Member
HS boys basketball teams beat WNBA teams.
PdotMichael
Banned
After puberty there is no fair competition possible between men and women in such sports.
It's just logical to put the two different genders in separated competitions .
Jack Random
Member
well, let's not say "no way," stranger things have happened in MMA.
but it's extremely unlikely
She isn't a man though. Having the strength of a 'man' is not something a woman should be discouraged from or disqualified from having. Genetics giveth and they taketh.
Azzurri
Member
Well there ya go.
And everyone is arguing about a male and female of similar skill and who would win.
You're arguing something completely different that no one is against for or against.
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