entremet
Member
It's literally one poster haha
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Transgender Teen (Male to Female) Wins 3rd Place in Race;Girls' Mothers Mad
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It's literally one poster haha
notsureifserious.jpg
How is MMA... literal freaking cage fighting, have no advantage for physical attributes. That's the bizarre thing. A man in the same weight class as a women would hit harder etc. skill and techniques are one thing, but they separate weight classes because a highly skilled fighter will lose a street fighter that's twice the size as him.
Like that cliché in movies where the hero loses to the big dude because his head is harder than steel. It's never that much of an advantage, but it isn't 0% advantageous in the real world.
I'm happy that here you're showing that you're merely being agnostic. Prior in this thread it came off that we were off our wits to claim otherwise.
QuantumZebra
Member
Glad I could entertain you.
MMA is far more dependent on physical attributes than archery, for instance. Hence why I said a male fighter of equal skill would win 9.5 times out of 10 vs. a female fighter.
However, a male and female golfer of equal skill and size, I would say the male would win 6-7 times out of 10, accounting for his (assumed) strength advantage in his swing.
I think that poster made the terrible mistake of dropping Rousey's name (probably cause that's a name the general public knows) but you know the spirit of what they are saying is an hypothetical highly skilled female MMA figther.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
sorry, clicked the wrong tab.
PdotMichael
Banned
Pretty sure there is not a single female pro athlete who would want to compete against men.
They know that it wouldn't be a fair competition between athletes anymore which is like the central point of sports.
They know that it wouldn't be a fair competition between athletes anymore which is like the central point of sports.
A Link to the Past
Banned
MrToughPants
Brian Burke punched my mom
This guy fights.^
BronsonLee
Member
I fight girls all the time!
Ordinaryundone
Member
This is what happens when people with more knowledge about anime than MMA try to talk about sports. BTW Goku and Piccolo totally should have been banned from the world tournament for non-human genetics, it's totally unfair. He was beating adults as a 6 year old.
I don't know, but I do know that men are naturally going to have advantages over women in physical stuff (generally speaking).
I also know that she didn't exactly blow the competition out of the water in her races...
In terms of the larger picture...wasn't there a Futurama episode all about this? I only speak in pop culture (which is my excuse of saying I have no answer).
I also know that she didn't exactly blow the competition out of the water in her races...
In terms of the larger picture...wasn't there a Futurama episode all about this? I only speak in pop culture (which is my excuse of saying I have no answer).
On an amateur level. Sure. But in the UFC or any respectable fighting organization? No, there's just no chance. If men and women played all sports with one another then we'd just see significantly less female athletes and champions.....like some sports women HAVE to make their own league to play professionally at all. Hence the WNBA, and let's not even talk about American Football.
Not really that harsh, a lot of top womens team practice vs high school level mens teams and lose quite a bit. The Canadian women's hockey team during the the Vancouver olympics did it to keep practicing and lost. The US women's team also does the same. Hell the Canadian women do up to 30 practice games with Midget AAA level boys teams (under 18). And these are the best of the best women that play hockey (the US and Canadian women). They are top athletes, but we can't deny biology either, there is a clear difference in the performance of men and women in sports.
Now what that means for a transgendered individual and sports, I don't have a clue, and it's a very interesting subject to try to figure out.
perfectchaos007
Member
It all comes down to driving distance. Most of the top males are driving around 300, top females are around 260-270, with a few in the 270-280. That extra 30-40 yards is a huge advantage when it comes to scoring. A 550 yard par five just isn't something most women can get close to in 2 shots. Let alone some of the course that have the long par fours.
I am not saying this. I just saying that a woman who started hormones before puberty is no different sports wise than a cis woman.
Unless said sport is "amount of stuff you can put in your vagina" =P
entremet
Member
Well driving averages is how PAR is determined in many courses. Of course it matters.
BronsonLee
Member
When HolyBaikal did this my eyes basically rolled into the back of my skull as I passed out on the floor
Not to ignore the seriousness & relevance of this issue, but we aren't too far from prosthetics that are superior to natural, genetic modification and cyborgs...
There's not going to be a clean solution, besides humanity evolving past its excessive glorification of physical prowess.
There's not going to be a clean solution, besides humanity evolving past its excessive glorification of physical prowess.
TheCochese
Banned
Annika Sorenstam.
Babe Didrikson
Among others. I can see the complaints, and see the need to include the girl. This is going to have to be adjudicated going forward. There needs to be some regulations set up, perhaps there would be a waiting period or hormone tests, but that doesn't even factor in muscle mass.
I honestly don't know.
QuantumZebra
Member
Apparently stressing the importance of skill in certain sports is anathema to some people.
Or they just can't accept that yes, a woman can beat a man in many activities if she is more skilled than him and their other traits are equal.
Hi! Yep, occasionally.
--
This may shock people, but yes women have competed in men's sports, and beaten them.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/2003-05-23-women-vs-men_x.htm
Now just imagine if women had been competing alongside men for decades, centuries, even. It wouldn't be a level playing field, but it sure as hell wouldn't be so lopsided.
BronsonLee
Member
They're never equal.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I can only speak to the three sports that I have a lot of experience with at the amateur and professional level, but this would effectively end women's tennis, women's golf, and women's volleyball. End them.
Vaccinations are also a controversial issue.
A girl enters girls competition and is then shouted down because of her genetics, it's fucked no matter how indifferently it's stated.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
You can't be serious.
entremet
Member
I don't think people are arguing on skill. Of course it matters, but what happens when equally skilled athletes of opposite gender compete. Who has a greater advantage?
Shamrock7r
Member
You went far beyond that point to be honest, and it seems you are now trying to reel it back in a bit. I don't know why it's so hard for you to say, "you know, you guys brought up some good points and maybe you're right."
DrROBschiz
Member
This is a tricky one
You have a mix of innate individual ability ( a woman can be genetically superior in strength and other physical aspects based on genetics alone)
and the obvious physical divide based on the biological difference between men and women.
Hence why the transgender person isnt guaranteed to win just because they were born male.
Ugh... i dunno about this one
You have a mix of innate individual ability ( a woman can be genetically superior in strength and other physical aspects based on genetics alone)
and the obvious physical divide based on the biological difference between men and women.
Hence why the transgender person isnt guaranteed to win just because they were born male.
Ugh... i dunno about this one
Lmaoooo. No respectable sports organization is gonna allow you to buy superhuman limbs to compete. Come on breh. Athletes can't even use steroids. Ofc prosthetic legs at their current levels are one thing to speak about but anything beyond that just wouldn't be allowed.
This as I recall is generally due to the effects hormones have had on you, which DNA and gonads would regulate the distribution of. I'll take a look at the article in a sec, but if she was given HRT early on her body would have developed the same as any natal girl would have, and thus forfeited any inherent male advantages. Even doing it for long enough after developing as a man would give musculature more like a woman's though there's still be that masculinized skeleton.
EDIT: And article says nothing there. Well, it's high school rather than a serious professional event too, so I'm not sure how seriously it needs to be sweated anyway.
LizardKing
Member
The goal as a society is for us to treat all genders equally and allowing trans ppl to compete with girls is doing a disservice to girls. Simple as that IMO. I'm definitely pro trans rights but this has nothing to do with transphobia. It's about allowing girls/women the rights and opportunities they deserve as well without putting them at an inherent disadvantage. People really need to just compete as the sex they were born as. Sorry to say, it's not a perfect solution but unless we had enough transgender competing to create their own category, this is the best solution.
For people saying it doesn't matter for young athletes you couldn't be more wrong.
For people saying it doesn't matter for young athletes you couldn't be more wrong.
Jack Random
Member
so, you're saying we should freeze women out of competitive golf and tennis... nice
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
Only thanks to idiots.
A girl that used to be a boy. Stop ignoring this fact.
Hmm... I want to apologise. I think this is an interpretation issue. This post here and the one before, I'm sure most of this thread agrees with.
I think we've misunderstood you. (i place part of the blame on you)
To clarify --
You aren't saying women and men are as strong as each other at the same weight class. But there's more to fighting and sport than physical strength.
I don't think you claimed what we assumed. hmm
People are misunderstanding you because of the assumption of on what "skill" means.
QuantumZebra
Member
Did you not read my other posts?
I have had to repeat in almost every post I've made that between equally skilled male and female opponents, I would be on the male 90% of the time.
Well at least we can come to a logical point here.
I am not sure how I was unclear (and I'm too busy at work to audit my previous posts) - but I think I've maintained the entire time that again, if a male and female are on equal footing across the board, especially in something such as fighting, I would take the male, again, 90% of the time.
The people saying we should get rid of gender divided sports remind me of the same people who say "Athletes shouldn't get paid more than teachers." By simply researching a few things you'd discover why things are the way they are.
Serena Williams dominates women tennis, but can't beat a male that's outside of the top 100 rankings. Think about that.
Serena Williams dominates women tennis, but can't beat a male that's outside of the top 100 rankings. Think about that.
DrROBschiz
Member
Yeah not a simple process
You get past the gender angle with separation and then you fall back into the genetic one
Having sports competitions be fair and based on skill alone.... depends on the sport but its hard to drown out advantages entirely
We are just too biologically diverse
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Who would disagree with that?
The problem is that these aren't equal at the top tier of most physically active sports. Even your link you provided says that this was a second tier tournament. She didn't place first either?
She may be a woman, but she has a male body. The end. See how easy it is to shortsighted an argument?
Ordinaryundone
Member
I've always said there should be two sports leagues. The fair one we have now, and a seperate one where you can do anything you want to yourself to win. I can't wait for the days when we get genetically enhanced gorilla/human crossbreeds fighting military cyborgs in cage matches.
TheExecutive
Member
So getting rid of women in sports is your solution? GOT IT.
It's not really 'fucked' to point out that perhaps biological males ought not to be competing with biological females in events where being male is an advantage.
Octavianus
Banned
Yes, I agree. Letting girls compete with girls is a disservice to girls.
Serena Williams is the greatest female tennis player who has ever lived. Think about that.
Testosterone levels seem like the only viable way to deal with this issue and upsetting the least amount of people possible. I imagine transgender individuals wouldn't be happy with it, especially if they're singled out, and it would be expensive and time consuming to do doping tests for all participants in all kinds of sports at school level. However, simply banning them because of the biological sex would be the worst course of action.
People saying it's no problem because she didn't come first are the worst though.
People saying it's no problem because she didn't come first are the worst though.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I... what? I'm saying that if the female/male distinction were dissolved in those sports, that is what would freeze them out of competition.
entremet
Member
I did.
But you're not being clear.
We're obviously talking about equally skilled participants. I thought that was implicit by the discussion topic.
It's a HS track meet.
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