TheShocker
Member
Fair enough. It's the stage they've chosen. Whether it's in protest of and/or during the national anthem, it's perceptively one in the same to a lot of people on both sides of the fence.
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Trump takes shots at Kaepernick, Get that son of a bitch off the field
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
Atomic Playboy
Member
Your first point contradicts your second point. If you think people are kneeling in protest of the anthem, you have absolutely no understanding of what people are protesting. But I agree with your third and fourth point.
TheShocker
Member
See me above post.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Sure, and those people would be wrong.
Oh for sure. I mean just based on the people I know that say this, they are lying to themselves. What it really comes down to is seeing a Black man that is successful not being grateful for it. After all, they are White, and yet they aren't rich. No seriously, that's the impression I get.
Nonetheless, the lie they go with, that it's about respecting America and that's the most important thing, is hypocritical when they usually value freedom of speech above all else even with genocide loving Nazis.
Though to also be fair, and I can speak for this, is that some of it comes down to that Americans are taught to never go against America in anyway, to show patriotism at all times, and that the Flag and the anthem are basically to be worshiped. As such, thinking critically about it is hard for a lot of people.
See this? That's a son of bitch.
ZedLeppelin006
Banned
Get those sons a bitches out of the FBI!
I know they're brothers and best friends but given how much of a coon Ray Lewis is and how level headed and on point Shannon has been aboout all this, it's interesting that he continues to hold Ray Lewis in the esteem that he does
I really hope someone at a later point looks at this whole situation as a case study in terms of how the media and people in the dominant society can easily break and tear you down in the drop of a hat due to the intentional perpetuation of misinformation and strawmanning
Like, Kaep has been protesting for well over a year now and from day 1 has been extremely clear as to why he's knelt and at no point was it ever about protesting the anthem. Yet, here we are a year later and people are tripping over themselves to cast aspersions on him and his stance for something that couldn't be farther from the truth just to intentionally avoid talking about the more poignant issue of racial inequality.
It's really disgusting.
Atomic Playboy
Member
Do yourself a favor and watch this video. It's short, and it might help you with some misconceptions.
'I was on two knees while everyone else was on one and my mouth was moving, people should have known i wasn't protesting against the anthem something something coon something something or other"
TheShocker
Member
That's because people in this country have forgotten one of the basic fundamentals of conversation. Open your ears and shut your fucking mouth. Obviously, the dominance of social media has provided people a soapbox to instantly start screaming their opinion as if it's somehow going to be taken as fact. It's sad really.
Atomic Playboy
Member
Social media is a great place to go to hear millions of people monologuing into the void.
TheShocker
Member
Right on. I've actually watched that video. And for what it's worth, I've edited my original post. I absolutely see where my wording was off. Still doesn't change my stance on the issue.
The Jazz Cabbage Master
Member
I was thinking in the shower ( aka my think tank) and realized something really smart about these protests taking place during football games. One is obviously visibility, but the second is that these kneelers get to avoid the bullshit that seemingly overshadows every protest lately i.e. violence, destruction of property, fringe groups etc. Sure the media has found something else to get mad about but the core greatness is that they are simply kneeling.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
Can I ask what other method of protesting you would be okay with? One that would grant them the same exposure that they're getting now
Latvian Hitman
Member
Those people are wrong and are missing the point, though. Actually, I'd say most of them have been intentionally misled by Trump and an accompanying bottom-feeder of a social media campaign over the last few days. I'm stealing a quote I saw a couple days back, but I think it's very apt:
"NFL players aren't protesting against the flag or the anthem any more so than Rosa Parks was protesting against public transportation."
At least, this is true of Kap and a few others when they started doing it last season. Now it seems to be as much of an anti-Trump protest as anything.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Some interesting numbers in a poll here.
58% think athletes should be forced to stand but 57% disagree they should be fired like Trump wants if they don't. 51% disagree with stance Kaepernick took versus 40 that agree.
http://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gf...Reuters Tracking - NFL Topline 09 26 2017.pdf
58% think athletes should be forced to stand but 57% disagree they should be fired like Trump wants if they don't. 51% disagree with stance Kaepernick took versus 40 that agree.
http://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gf...Reuters Tracking - NFL Topline 09 26 2017.pdf
Saint Gregory
Member
Something Trump has actually said I bet lol
Violence Jack
Member
Cause when people know you got away with murder, but you don't want to support a silent protest against policing in America, always talk about god as a "moral" shield.
Taking cues from R Kelly.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
I posted last night about how unpopular the polling was for the March on Washington and the civil Rights movement. Im optimistic over time the opinion will change.
Saint Gregory
Member
I would imagine so. Previous polling on racial issues showed minimal differences between how Reps and Dems viewed them.
TheShocker
Member
I flat out don't have an answer to that. If in that position, I personally would stand and would fight for my right to stand, just as others are fighting for their right to kneel. I think the Cowboys did it the best way possible so far. They acknowledged both sides in a respectful and unified manner.
Saint Gregory
Member
And they still got booed. You may feel differently but to a lot of the opposition this anger has nothing to do with the Anthem or patriotism, it has to do with African Americans voicing an opinion that they'd rather not hear at any venue.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
Here's my take on it.
When Kaep first did this, I wasn't sure, like you, it was the best idea to go about doing this. I realized that I was wrong. I realized that the aim of a protest is to make people feel uncomfortable. Because now we start to have that uncomfortable conversation that otherwise would have never happened. If you appease the other side, they don't talk about the protest. And then we're back to square one. That's why they're using the anthem to use it as a method to protest like others have posted above.
It's uncomfortable that they used the anthem as a means to protest. But now guess what, we're all talking about it now. Whether or not it's in agreement, the subject is now in all of our minds and now we can start to have that conversation.
TheShocker
Member
No, that's absolutely accurate and it's disgusting.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
I understand that you mean well. I just want to be clear.
What the Cowboys did was worse than nothing. It was a co-opting and perversion of Kaep's protest. It takes the courageous act that started it all and perverts it into some meaningless, sanitized message of 'unity'. United in what? The opponents of justice want this to go away, and this 'unity' bs is the NFL ownership's idea how to go about doing that.
Which owner stands with Kaep in his cause for justice and equality? That would actually mean something. That would show some courage, to do what's right. Not this warm and fuzzy unity horseshit that means nothing other than a way for the opponents of justice to co-opt and confuse the meaning of Kaep's just cause.
Adam Sadler
Member
This isn't necessarily directed at you TheShocker but there is no right way to protest. A protest should always disrupt people/upset people I think. Even the so called "peaceful" protests from 50 60 years ago weren't peaceful at all and bothered people. Someone is always gonna be a bit offended at how you chose to protest
excelsiorlef
Member
This is now peak straight people telling gay kids don't worry it gets better.
Statement references police officers but not mention of specially black Americans. Classic
It IS ALM.
shadow_shogun
Member
Ray Lewis also got DOTD...Gaddamn, this poor bugger keeps catching shrapnel.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Yeah, they totally blew it with this cover.
CitizenCope
Member
Yup! I reminded him that nearly every player has said with conviction that this has nothing to with the troops or flag.
Not really, the whole thing has been heavily orchestrated and co-opted to get people talking about patriotism and the anthem rather than racial injustice which was what Kaep was protesting.
feel bad for steph, they got him arm and arm with goodell
excelsiorlef
Member
The Cowboys didn't protest anything though.
But glad They are now useful as the "how ro do it right" example
Daffy Duck
Member
Theyre filming more x files?
Barry Burton
Member
Hahaha. Nearly spit out my drink!
THAT'S IT, my X-Files DVD collection is going on the grill!
Saint Gregory
Member
The irony is that in the NFL owners minds Kaep's crime was the same crime Trump is committing... He was fucking with their money. You see how united they've been against both men.
The Elite
BOSS
Season 11. 10 episodes.
plagiarize
Banned
Hopefully Darin Morgan's episode is good. That's all the optimism I can muster after season 10.
It's for the best given the cover isn't doing anything but further diluting Kaep's protest anyway.
The message that's being perpetuated is still very much about patriotism rather than racial injustice and they know that and they're doing it purposely and intentionally
If you put Kaep on that cover where steph is lets say, you're making the deceleration that all these people stand with Kaep in his protest for racial inequality and even though im sure some of them do (i.e. Lebron James) i'm damn sure that some of them don't (I.e. Goodell)
Etrian Oddity
Member
I gotta give it to those jackwagons in suits, they've done a brilliant job of hijacking Kaepernick's cause. Hijacking memes and movements seems to be a defining skill in a certain circle.
Violence Jack
Member
I'd love to see Kaep on Fox Sports on day for the sole purpose of beating the hell out of Jason Whitlock for what he said about him and keeps saying about him.