GuyKazama
Member
The cat is out of the bag. This wouldn't even be an option on the table if Reid hadn't set a precedent.
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Trump to GOP: "Go nuclear" on filibuster if SCOTUS nom is deadlocked
- Thread starter nature boy
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The cat is out of the bag. This wouldn't even be an option on the table if Reid hadn't set a precedent.
The GOP didn't filibuster Marrick Garland.
The GOP lead Judiciary Committee never even held an initial hearing to start the confirmation process.
Very very different.
metalslimer
Member
They will nuke it anyway. They are getting a nominee through regardless
Because it makes no sense. Either something is constitutional or it isn't. Going nuclear is declaring that the filibuster is not constitutional.
Also this. It's kind of a cold war thing.
nature boy
Member
Because Dems will return the favor once they can.
It can definitely be put back. However, Republicans hold a majority in Congress - why would they ever want the Democrats to filibuster?
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
They keep breaking laws and changing everything! Wtf can we do, the Republicans are this evil, we have 4 years!!!
This is not a law that they would break. The esoteric rules of the senate have always been part of the political process, and that includes threats to change the filibuster rules.
Agreed, but I'm pretty sure Trump is too short-sighted to see it this way.
Then, the reason for the Senate even existing comes into question, doesn't it?
JHoNNy1OoO
Member
Democrats would be the ones to shrug. Trust me. Republicans know the drill. Sure Democrats could grow a spine but if History shows us anything, they'll go right back to "finding common ground".
BackLogJoe
Member
Yeah this whole gentleman's agreement thing isn't flying with me. You have to have two gentlemen to have an agreement and one side is going balls to the wall to the right. I dont think they are worried about tomorrow, much less 4 years from now.
Different, but still a violation of norms that Dems are completely justified in retaliating against by launching an unconditional filibuster of Trump's nominee.
Consider that only 1 of the 3 people on the bench around 80 now are republican appointed who might be retiring soon. Those are real shit odds to pin a hope on.
It'll likely be Ginsburg since she's old as hell so it will either get nuked now with Trump whipping the GOP from behind or it'll definitely get nuked next time.
If it's a bluff and the GOP balk at nuking the filibuster, we might block and get someone slightly more moderate. If not we get someone rammed down our throats now. Either way the next appointment will definitely get shoved down our throats so there's no winning move here, just mitigation of as much damage as possible.
Thats rich. Durbin is the assistant minority leader and hes going against schumer (his direct superior)'s wishes. Democrats can't stop stepping on their own dicks.You better.
It's not very very different, same situation, different groups of people.
The Senate has always been the "gentlemanly" house of congress and McConnell is not about to go changing that. Trust me this weird dance will end up in the Dems giving the GOP 8 votes to get the 60 vote margin after a few months of lobbed threats back and forth and the gentleman's agreement will remain in place.
The Democrats already fired the nuclear option on lower court nominees.
No, it's literally different. The effect may have been the same but the tool used was very different.
You better.
This WEINER. Disgusting.
TestOfTide
Banned
You have to realize that once the filibuster is gone, the GOP will become VERY scared of bringing up any bills because the Democrats can fuck the bills over by bringing up amendments to the bills that are politically bad to vote against, but have "poison pills" in them on the main bill.
Republicans did something similar every time that the Democrats used Reconciliation to get around the filibuster.
Jesus Christ people this is not something to get worked up about.
Right, but they can do that anyway, I thought.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
Durbin, primaried...in Illinois? Not happening. This is Durbin saying fuck you to Schumer, nothing more. And ultimately it still might lead to a filibuster, let's see this play out.
Durbin would have been a far better minority leader to have.
superdeluxe
Member
Let them nuke the fillibuster.
What do the dems have to lose?
What do the dems have to lose?
Very good point, they didn't even let it get that far.
God I've read enough about this to not make such a simple error too, apologies. The GOP won't ever play by the rules but expect them to be followed when in opposition to a Democrat President. Now is not the time for the Democrat party to be "above" this.
Force them to kill the filibuster. Then get out there and stop the Orange Bastard.
The denial of a president even having hearings for his SC appointment for a damn near a year means anybody afterwards should get a whole lot of anger.
I agree that there should be retaliation for the Garland fiasco, but that will come in time.
As far as I'm concerned -- they need to do this.
A political system where both sides are assholes and petulant and mean and block and delay everything they possibly can for no other reason than that the other side wants to do it is a bad system and one no one should be happy about.
..But a worse system is one where only one side does this. A system where only one side gets a turn while in power. A system where only one side gets to make appointments and pass things.
Save us, Marrec
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
The Dems have shown themselves very unwilling to return any favours owed by the GOP.
exmachina64
Banned
The Democrats most likely will lose seats in the Senate in 2018.
So it's the same, like I said. I don't think the different mechanisms are really all that different when the main goal is obstruction.
TestOfTide
Banned
With the filibuster in place, the GOP can just use Democrat obstruction to not have to pass any bill that has a poison pill in it.
Basically, removing the Filibuster makes passing ANY bill similar to the Reconciliation process.
Why not? Hes sure as shit not losing to a republican candidate in the general election.
We need to understand and be clear about these kinds of things because misunderstandings can bring discussions and debates into the weeds and because we need to understand how to use these things to our advantage when the time is right.
He was not filibustered. To say so is wrong. That is, as the kids say, "fake news".
People's memories are short, and tying it to a relevant topic helps focus the narrative. I can't imagine a better use of the little power the left has to make a statement.
It's just a primer even when it fails, because by almost any death actuary analysis he's gonna get 1 or 2 more even if he only gets 4 years.
Muppet of a Man
Member
He wouldn't have done that had he not exhausted every other option prior and the Republicans not set the precedent of pure obstructionism on every appointment and piece of legislation during the 8 year Obama era due purely to racist sentiment and cynicism.
With the end of so many political norms and such an unpopular and inflammatory figure as Trump in office I truly think at this point it's impossible to predict what will happen in 2018. Nothing would surprise me.
In 2006, the dems won a wave election over a war that affected, directly, almost no one. Look at what Trump has done after only like 11 days.
If they repeal Obama care and millions of people lose their insurance? All bets are off as to what the ramifications of this would be. Political actions don't take place in a vacuum, and this is especially true of deeply provocative political actions and ones that directly hurt people in demonstrable ways that they understand (like losing their coverage).
I advocate for just confirming Gorsuch and trying to take back the Senate and House over the next 4 years while hoping no more SCOTUS appointments are made in that time. Gorsuch is going to be confirmed no matter what, I'd vote for picking a better battle in the future. There's nothing gained from forcing the GOP to nuke the filibuster right now.
Lord Frieza
Member
It's important to acknowledge here that Trump has no real, direct power in this situation. Even if he is 'demanding' it. I mean, he's obviously trying to influence this with what's being said, but the decision is up the Congress and the GOP at this point. They have to make this move on their own.
But wouldn't this only apply to SCOTUS nominees? Or would it apply to all bills?
Father_Brain
Banned
They'll kill the filibuster within a few months anyway, mark my words. Might as well fight now.
I guess you can make an argument for "choose your battles", but all I've seen over Obama's term is that obstructing tooth and nail every single thing has only benefitted the GOP and has cost them nothing. I'm not sure why we should suddenly believe that being obstructionist has consequences.
Being smarter, bigger, and better doesn't work in our current political system. Our politics are a big childish stupid fucking shit show. Just a big dumb food fight. Being scholarly in a food fight doesn't help. You say something smart and get mashed potatoes in the face. It doesn't matter.
..And it only hurts, because if dems roll over it'll demoralize their base -- Which is out for blood
Lord Frieza
Member
It's true, but doing what they did yesterday gives me hope. Even with all the obstructionist bullshit of Obama's terms, I don't think Dems ever had the screams of rage on their asses from their constituents like they are now. I don't know if it'll matter, in the end, to stop the fascism taking over the country, but I am more optimistic about the Dems actually getting down and dirty, even if it's far, far too late.
Lord Frieza
Member
There's a general thought process that Democrats are held to a double-standard than Republicians. And this, somewhat true (though I think it's become exaggerated in reality), but right now there's calls from their base, loudly, to obstruct, obstruct, obstruct. So, yeah, this is what needs to happen, and while the right-wing will condemn, I think it's clear that they will condemn them no matter what.
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