If they do it it's gonna be a battle between voter suppression and demographics for the next 20 years. Winner takes all.
And we'll win.
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Trump to GOP: "Go nuclear" on filibuster if SCOTUS nom is deadlocked
- Thread starter nature boy
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If they do it it's gonna be a battle between voter suppression and demographics for the next 20 years. Winner takes all.
And we'll win.
TestOfTide
Banned
The Senate will be hard to win next year, but Trump is pissing off enough voters that everything else will easily be in play.
All the democrats have to do is the easy task of tying every GOP member to the unlikable Trump.
Even WITH gerrymandering the 30% deplorable base is not enough to hold everything.
Plus the protests are no longer simply another Occupy thing. It's becoming more like the 60s when protests were constantly happening.
The benefit of doing it now is that they show they are just as angry and unwilling to compromise as their constituency is. People are pissed and they want their representatives to be pissed too. I think the fallout from tip toeing around controversy will be larger than the fallout from being obstructionist (which was shown not to hurt the GOP at all). Dems need to stop being complacent. Fight tooth and nail because we know the GOP are perfectly fine doing the same.
The filibuster will be gone anyway, so I don't see why Dems shouldn't fight now. The base is fucking angry and energized. That is what is needed in 2018. A great way to blunt that is to roll over. And for what? To keep the filibuster for a couple more months? A year at most?
Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin and all need to get it through their heads that they need an energized base for 2018. Do whatever it takes to keep Dems angry and energized to go to the polls for once.
Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin and all need to get it through their heads that they need an energized base for 2018. Do whatever it takes to keep Dems angry and energized to go to the polls for once.
I hope the democrats understand just how much they'll depress their base if they don't grow a spine and stop being pussies. I wouldn't vote for someone like Dick Durbin if I were in his district. I'd vote for a primary challenger or stay home. Meet with Trump's SCOTUS nominee? Why? Fuck you.
The only time it hurt them was the government shutdown.
It was an incredibly successful strategy.
It's a bad landscape for sure. But if Trump continues it might be so bad that those "only if shit goes south" seats flip for an election.
Trump somehow has a near 50 fucking percent approval rating with likely voters now, after all the shit he's pulled. Short of actively killing people, what can he do to make his supporters dislike him? He's a loudmouth asshole and that makes him more popular!
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
yankeehater
Member
The dems could have done so much good those first 2 years if Obama hadnt wanted to work with the right instead. That was a huge missed opportunity and one America might never get back.
TestOfTide
Banned
If the Senate ONLY nukes for SCOTUS, then they show they are scared.
And SCOTUS has to tread carefully too. If SCOTUS does any of the following they energize the democrats and take the wind out of the deplorable's sails:
- Overturn Roe v Wade
- Overturn Oberfelge
- Overturn more campaign finance laws
- Overturn Lawrence v Texas
- Do ANYTHING to the CRA
It's great, but it should fly off to Canada after a few minutes.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
It would set a new precedent
The previous precedent was set by Harry Reid and the democrats for lower level court appointees
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
This. We need a progressive tea party. DEMAND that our representatives fight tooth and nail against everything Trump tries to do. If they won't? We'll vote in someone else who will.
TestOfTide
Banned
First off, if that 49% poll is only likely voters, then the GOP only wins with high rural turnout like in 2016.
Second, Trump is still in the "honeymoon" period. His favorables can only go down from here.
Finally, his fanbase is not enough. He BARELY won and only with the help of low Dem turnout and many voters who didn't like Trump but voted for him because of how much they hated Hillary.
If Trump were so well liked, his inauguration wouldn't be such a small crowd and the protests wouldn't be so big.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
So when the democrats did it, it wasn't evil?
dragonfart28
Banned
I think it's time the press begins asking questions like this just to piss Trump off.
Just troll the mother fucker until he goes apeshit.
Yes worth it. This was supposed to be Obama's nominee. Fuck anyone else. Obstruct everything.
Explain to me what you think the drawback of that is and I'll point you to republicans who control government at every level and stopped anything from getting done and even stole this very SCOTUS pick by simply not acknowledging that Obama picked him. Republicans obstructed every single thing for any reason or no reason at all and were richly, richly rewarded for it.
Democrats can't act like or believe they're smart if they can observe what happened and not learn from it.
Not to be a jerk, but what is the line you're proposing. If this isn't it, what do you suggest?
Do you think he'd know enough to actually get pissed though? lol
balladofwindfishes
Member
Schattenjäger;229516838 said:
No
Do you believe both parties are the same?
but the endgame is to overturn rulings they dislike
they ain't gonna stay there being too scared of actually using the power they have
they ain't democrats
Fenderputty
Banned
I think he's a republican so ...
He's a Trumper. One of the smart ones who stays out of expressing his real bannable feelings. One of the "good" ones more or less.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
I'm independent ..
Why limit myself to a party?
That's fair but I also believe the GOP is more immune to negative PR compared to the dems. It's fucked up but the GOP is much better at smearing their opposition. Their base is also a lot more dumb and willing to swallow any old bullshit. But mainly, I don't see the point in obstructing Gorsuch when there are already other important fights to be had. Time and energy are finite. Gorsuch aint great but he's no Sessions for example so I can't see their base getting too riled up over his confirmation.
There's also the fact that obstructing and losing now could make obstructing a future worse SCOTUS nom more difficult.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
In regards to ideals, no
In regards to not giving a shit about people and caring only about votes, yes
nature boy
Member
Schattenjäger;229516838 said:
Forgetting the context in which the Democrats got rid of the filibuster for a moment, are cabinet positions the same as lifetime appointments to SCOTUS?
Schattenjäger;229516838 said:
This is a coherent belief if you recognize (correctly) that abolishing the filibuster is a good idea, from either party, since removing it is necessary for our government to come anywhere close to functioning in a polarized environment, but the things the Republicans want to when unchecked by the filibuster are evil.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
Definitely not.. I said a new precedent will be set
The Dems should wait for the next appointee to filibuster though
If they force the GOP to go nuclear now, I bet the next one will be the most conservative judge they can pick
Schattenjäger;229516838 said:
The Democrats have done a variety of shitty things in the past but its a molehill compared to the mountain of disgusting hateful and ignorant bull shit the GOP has been pushing, let alone what the Trump administration is attempting to do in the last two weeks.
You mean politically or culturally? I think there's a difference here that we need to keep in mind.
Politically the rules constantly change, which is good, a 240 year old Republic needs to be able to evolve to meet modern demands. Sometimes the rules change and it helps the "bad guys" and sometimes the rules change and it helps the "good guys" but change is a constant so we can't get our knickers in a twist too much when it happens, as long as the fundamental rules remain the same (like voting, EC, 3 branches of government, etc). [I mean political procedure here, btw]
Culturally there are like, a million lines. Retreading socially progressive SCOTUS decisions of years past, trying to sign in EOs or Laws that fundamentally change what should be recognized as the values of America. With Trumps cabinet picks, we could be crossing one of these lines daily for all I know. Like, lets say Betsy DeVos decides that "teach the controversy" should be defacto in American schools. We riot right? That obviously cannot be made law or even public policy.
Even then though, we need to keep our heads about us and try to discourage hyperbole and propaganda.
I'd love to watch Trump try to force McConnell to do something McConnell doesn't want too.
He may be a slimy turtle who smells like cheap aftershave, but he wields considerable political power and won't give it up easily. He doesn't have to deal with rowdy republican anarchists like Paul Ryan does.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
I've said it before, it is time to bring the Whig party back into relevance
Heck, their mascot is a owl - already a winner there!
Spicer likely to be asked about the nuclear option quote in a bit if he takes questions at this presser. Least one can hope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hETGipWgOBA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hETGipWgOBA
Duane Cunningham
Member
Schattenjäger;229517916 said:
It's totally possible this is the only pick they get, though.
Spicer: "It's frankly cowardly for the Democrats to even threaten this kind of obstructionism and if it comes down to it I'm sure the GOP leaders in the Senate will act according to the will of the American People"
Bet me 50
They are called middlemen. Their favorite past time is spending their gaf time defending Trump and the Republicans while never saying a negative thing about them or a positive thing about the Democrats. But, they never actually openly say they support Trump and will deny it. They think both sides are mostly the same though. They proudly consider themselves above it all and identify as Independent or Moderate. They usually don't live in the US. They love to cherry pick topics that allow them the most shaming of the liberals for overreacting.
You need to learn your gaf lingo man.
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
I don't think so ..chances are pretty good for another pick .. whether through retirement or death
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
I said both positive and negative things about Trump and Obama
I'm sure someone is digging into my posts as we speak
Why not focus on my point in this topic instead of trying to attack me?
Schattenjäger;229517378 said:
I know you say that, through some magic the "they" I referred to mostly all say that. Since the election there seems to be a new norm even on Gaf. But nearly every time you talk politics it's mildly cozy with a white nationalist candidate. The fact that you're clearly a smart guy makes it worse.
If you're not a Trumper then what makes you a rightist?
If you're opposed to what I consider universal rights,like health care for the poor, or a social safety net just say it and we can speak honestly about why it benefits everybody to provide those services and fully fund them. The constitution doesn't say I'm right, so there's room to take it as an originalist and go libertarian.
If you're afraid of a ban PM me.
I'll add that every single time I make a post like this I get either no response or a single sentence blow off.
I swear Spicer just said "We're not doing this again" under his breath
The Maverick
Member
Dems should call their bluff.
Schattenjäger;229518868 said:
Fair enough. It is off topic.
As to your point, yes Democrats did it that one time. But I'm not coming from a position that both sides are the same, because I actually pay attention to the things Republicans say and do, so I don't think we can come to an agreement.
Aww man he was WAY more conciliatory than I thought he'd be
Basically saying it's up to McConnell, which in the end it is.
TestOfTide
Banned
I'm not saying they won't do it. I'm saying they will get major backlash if they touch those things.
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