I don't understand it either, and there's a lot of hyperbole regarding the beginning of TP.
I played the game for the third time last week, and I still liked the beginning. Oh well...
Twilight Princess is White Album of Video Games
- Thread starter Kevin Shields
- Start date
I don't understand it either, and there's a lot of hyperbole regarding the beginning of TP.
I played the game for the third time last week, and I still liked the beginning. Oh well...
It's certainly the best Zelda since the n64.
All the others either go off the deep end like FSA+ with the puzzles or are a boredom filled fetch quest without anything interesting to do like SS or WW.
I can get how you can not like the artstyle since that's a bit too realistic to most people's taste.
Still it fits my need for a Zelda game to a T.
It's pretty much OoT done bigger with more stuffs.
You don't really need to have 56 stuffs to do for every square inch of the overworld either but it needs to be more than the empty void of SS or WW at least.
It does the correct thing a sequel should do : expand.
Zelda 2 was great for that too.
Remember that huge map you had to go through to save the princess? Well that's actually a very small part of the land of hyrule and you'll see more of it now.
That is awesome.
The dungeons are fantastic all memorables with their own theme and obstacles to go with it (although they could be a bit more battle focused).
the music is fantastic and epic.
it's the Zelda game with the best enemy design too.
not too goofy like WW or SS (way to kill any tension with that gobelin design btw)
Hopefully Zelda U manages to outdo TP and provides an even more memorable experience.
All the others either go off the deep end like FSA+ with the puzzles or are a boredom filled fetch quest without anything interesting to do like SS or WW.
I can get how you can not like the artstyle since that's a bit too realistic to most people's taste.
Still it fits my need for a Zelda game to a T.
It's pretty much OoT done bigger with more stuffs.
You don't really need to have 56 stuffs to do for every square inch of the overworld either but it needs to be more than the empty void of SS or WW at least.
It does the correct thing a sequel should do : expand.
Zelda 2 was great for that too.
Remember that huge map you had to go through to save the princess? Well that's actually a very small part of the land of hyrule and you'll see more of it now.
That is awesome.
The dungeons are fantastic all memorables with their own theme and obstacles to go with it (although they could be a bit more battle focused).
the music is fantastic and epic.
it's the Zelda game with the best enemy design too.
not too goofy like WW or SS (way to kill any tension with that gobelin design btw)
Hopefully Zelda U manages to outdo TP and provides an even more memorable experience.
Subhuman Filth
Member
The game is mostly a slog right up until the Lakebed Temple; after that it gets good. The comparison to White Album is apt, if a bit obtuse. But for all the crap myself and others give TP, the section from Arbiter's Grounds to City in the Sky is one of the highest peaks the series has seen, surpassed only by Skyward Sword's second half.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
This. I'm playing through HD right now and it's just...I don't know. It's missing something. The artstyle is terrible--bland colors and horrific character art.
I really think Skyward Sword's dungeons surpassed these.
SS's second half?
the one where you go through all the maps again to have the worst fetch quests this side of DK64 (and I fucking love that game btw) to get your sword powered up or something?
With the climax being the horrible triforce dungeon that is the most anticlimatic dungeon of all Zelda this side of the 3rd pearl of WW?
That 2nd half of SS?
they even managed to make the great idea of dungeons getting overrun again by monsters a tedious pointless exercise!
Jack Remington
Banned
In OOT you can be inside the first dungeon in like 10 minutes. In TP you have to do a bunch of useless boring shit.
After playing through the HD version, I do not agree with this at all. That game is filled with all sorts of goofy enemies, including the standards.
I can't imagine anyone who has a fear of spiders taking something like Armogohma seriously with how that fight concludes.
The big high point of Tp bosses are the designs, the very low point is how easy they are :/
Seriously though 1 looks so much more menacing than 2
Seriously the enemy design in SS is really great at not making the enemies menacing at all, even worse than WW and that one made them look like a saturday morning cartoon :/
Gohma was at its best in ST, that was seriously the best thing ever to be chased by that thing and trying to kill it one way or another
OoT has the best Gohma design though
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Seahats gave me nightmares >_>
Subhuman Filth
Member
The straw man is a great thing ain't it?
That's not even a Bokoblin from TP!
Bokoblins have always looked like dummies. TP just made them strung out on heroin on top of it.
Or you could explain what was so great about the 2nd half of SS instead of crying about strawmen.
There's multiple designs for gobelins in TP, the one I posted is actually the most common type you can see in most of Hyrule, the other type being relegated to mostly the forest and south/east side of the hyrule field (granted the design I posted is the horde of the king gobelin under Ganondorf).
They're gobelins they're supposed to be ugly anyway, at least they're menacing.
The 2nd design is also great in that the eyes actually shine in the night from afar making them look more ominous like eyes in the dark.
SS has something like 1 general type of gobelin that you see everywhere and they're the ugly goofy type (with different equipments).
Subhuman Filth
Member
I could. But given your pugnacious attitude towards anyone who enjoys Skyward Sword, I doubt it would do much good. Here's a rebuttal anyway, though.
I'm assuming your talking about the Silent Realms, in which case I highly disagree. The type of fetch-questing you describe more accurately reflects TP's wolf segments, rather than SS. You're also forgetting that most of the "back-tracking" involves exploring new areas previously inaccessible, ala Metroid. And of course the dungeons are among the best of the best.
Cute. You almost got a rise out of me. Sky Keep's lack of a boss fight aside, having the layout itself be a puzzle is fantastic. I honestly don't see what's wrong.
ClayKavalier
Banned
I do collect vinyl actually, but the White Album isn't something I get the urge to sit down an listen to all the way through often.
Like if I'm in the mood to replay a Zelda game I'd play Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, or maybe Ocarina over TP even though TP has my favorite dungeons just because the others are more consistently great.
It's a slog more often than that. I wish they would have just once let you visit a location a single time. There's backtracking throughout the entire game. The worst example is right before you go the city in the sky. Find Impaz's village, clear it of enemies, get the item to give to the girl, go back to the village and restore her memory, and then go back to where you just were to activate the rod. It doesn't take long since you have all the warps unlocked at that point but man, it's like the designers were looking at players' paths through the game and thought "Oh crap, we only have them going to this small area tucked away at the very top of the map once. Gotta find a way to fix that."
Let's push this analogy as far as we can, shall we?
First off, let's peg Bill Haley's "Rock Around The Clock" (1954) as the key moment that kicked off rock 'n roll as a genre. Likewise, let's peg Pong (1974) as the release that popularized video games. The Beatles' first album, Please Please Me (1963), arrived nine years after the beginning of our rock timeline, which means its video game equivalent would be released in 1983. Thus:
"Love Me Do" (1962) = Donkey Kong (1981) (The breakthrough hit single, even if I have to fudge things by a year to make it work)
Please Please Me (1963) = Donkey Kong 3 (1983) (A hit album that refinined ideas from the single)
With the Beatles (1963) = Mario Bros. (1983) (The eagerly anticipated follow-up to the first album, expanding upon its ideas)
A Hard Day's Night (1964) = Excitebike (1984) (The one where they're racing to get to the concert on time)
Beatles for Sale (1964) = Duck Hunt (1984) (The band quits touring and throws this out, taunting the audience just a bit)
Help! (1965) = Super Punch-Out! (1985) (Another knock out release, but still largely built on earlier successes)
Rubber Soul (1965) = Super Mario Bros. (1985) (The revolutionary album that begin the more artistic phase for the group)
Revolver (1966) = Legend of Zelda (1986) (An amazing follow-up, if somewhat overshadowed by it's predecessor)
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967) = Metroid (1987) (The psychedelic classic that goes rambling off in odd directions)
Magical Mystery Tour (1967) = Doki Doki Panic/Super Mario Bros. 2 (1987) (The weird side project everyone loves anyway)
The Beatles aka The White Album (1968) = Super Mario Bros. 3 (1988) (The sprawling, brilliant classic)
Yellow Submarine (1969) = Mother (1969) (The weird, playful, satirical release)
Abbey Road (1969) = Super Mario World (1990) (The triumphant end of an era, even if I have to fudge things by a year again to make it work)
Let It Be (1970) = Super Mario Land (1989) (The release that doesn't quite capture the band at it's height, recorded before the previous release)
I've played a bit fast and loose with the dates here, mixing release dates for arcade/home and Japanese/North American releases, but you get the idea. And, if we're equating The Beatles with Nintendo, that means:
John Lennon = Shigeru Miyamoto
Paul McCartney = Gumpei Yokoi
George Harrison = Takashi Tezuka
Ringo Starr = Shigesato Itoi
That said, I'm going to resist the urge to try to match someone up with Yoko.
FnordChan
First off, let's peg Bill Haley's "Rock Around The Clock" (1954) as the key moment that kicked off rock 'n roll as a genre. Likewise, let's peg Pong (1974) as the release that popularized video games. The Beatles' first album, Please Please Me (1963), arrived nine years after the beginning of our rock timeline, which means its video game equivalent would be released in 1983. Thus:
"Love Me Do" (1962) = Donkey Kong (1981) (The breakthrough hit single, even if I have to fudge things by a year to make it work)
Please Please Me (1963) = Donkey Kong 3 (1983) (A hit album that refinined ideas from the single)
With the Beatles (1963) = Mario Bros. (1983) (The eagerly anticipated follow-up to the first album, expanding upon its ideas)
A Hard Day's Night (1964) = Excitebike (1984) (The one where they're racing to get to the concert on time)
Beatles for Sale (1964) = Duck Hunt (1984) (The band quits touring and throws this out, taunting the audience just a bit)
Help! (1965) = Super Punch-Out! (1985) (Another knock out release, but still largely built on earlier successes)
Rubber Soul (1965) = Super Mario Bros. (1985) (The revolutionary album that begin the more artistic phase for the group)
Revolver (1966) = Legend of Zelda (1986) (An amazing follow-up, if somewhat overshadowed by it's predecessor)
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967) = Metroid (1987) (The psychedelic classic that goes rambling off in odd directions)
Magical Mystery Tour (1967) = Doki Doki Panic/Super Mario Bros. 2 (1987) (The weird side project everyone loves anyway)
The Beatles aka The White Album (1968) = Super Mario Bros. 3 (1988) (The sprawling, brilliant classic)
Yellow Submarine (1969) = Mother (1969) (The weird, playful, satirical release)
Abbey Road (1969) = Super Mario World (1990) (The triumphant end of an era, even if I have to fudge things by a year again to make it work)
Let It Be (1970) = Super Mario Land (1989) (The release that doesn't quite capture the band at it's height, recorded before the previous release)
I've played a bit fast and loose with the dates here, mixing release dates for arcade/home and Japanese/North American releases, but you get the idea. And, if we're equating The Beatles with Nintendo, that means:
John Lennon = Shigeru Miyamoto
Paul McCartney = Gumpei Yokoi
George Harrison = Takashi Tezuka
Ringo Starr = Shigesato Itoi
That said, I'm going to resist the urge to try to match someone up with Yoko.
FnordChan
Subhuman Filth
Member
iirc you can get her to activate the Dominion Rod during the first trip. Most folks just don't know that at the time, hence the double visit. Kinda like getting Saria's Song in OOT through the shortcut in Goron's City. There's a way to do it, but it's quite vague. And yeah, Twilight Princess is chock full of "go here, get this, come back" stuff.
ClayKavalier
Banned
You're taking the analogy a little too far. He's saying both have moments of brilliance sandwiched between sections of dull padding.
This game killed Zelda for me after Wind Waker had already punched a few holes in it.
I just don't like Eiji Aonuma's solo direction, I guess.
Slow to start, too easy, full of filler.
Disregarding your simile and focusing on the overall question. Flawed "masterpieces" are common in gaming. Look no further than Shenmue.
I just don't like Eiji Aonuma's solo direction, I guess.
Slow to start, too easy, full of filler.
Disregarding your simile and focusing on the overall question. Flawed "masterpieces" are common in gaming. Look no further than Shenmue.
You could also stop taking things personally too,
I don't think we're discussing the worst games ever here either.
I'm actually not talking about the Silent realms which are really whatever imo, they're just obstacle course. You learn nothing through them about the lore or the world, at least there's a contextual reason for the TP tears of light.
You're doing that to bring back the light to the realm, the stakes are high with people getting killed by the shadow beasts now roaming the world and the people changed into mere shadows.
It certainly could be done better but at least there's a reason to do that outside of "get random item".
I'm actually talking about when you're done with the 3 1rst dungeons and have to go through the territories again to access the new dungeons. Probably one of the worst case being the infamous tadtones ( but I'd crucify the game more for the water dragon area that patently linear and more boring than anything...just before a dungeon that's actually cool if a bit easy).
The issue isn't the layout being the puzzle but that this dungeon is the easiest of the whole game bar maybe the 1rst one providing nothing but retread of small pieces of dungeons you already did.
It's like gauntlets with bosses you find at the end of some action games where you visit areas similar to the ones you've seen before like part of the last dungeon in WW except lame and with no payoff.
The worst part is that it's supposed to be a cool parallel to all the other Zelda games being the only one you get the triforce in full before the end of the game and everything.
And it's such a let down.
Like we're supposed to believe the dungeon is really the way the goddesses hid the triforce to be sure no one but the worthy hero would take it.
As someone who loves the Beatles but isn't too much of a fan of the White Album, I can't agree. There was way too much filler and annoying/boring stuff in that album. For every "Back in the USSR", "Dear Prudence" or "While my guitar gently weeps" there was a "Revolution 9", "Wild honey pie" or "Long, long, long". Add on top of that the fact that I don't enjoy songs like "Bungalow Bill", "Rocky racoon", "Glass onion" or "Julia" and all that's left is a bunch of random tracks that (in my opinion) would have worked much better as a single album. By this I don't mean it's a bad album, not at all, but it's not one of my favorites.
On the other hand, not being a huge fan of the Zelda franchise, I found TP to be one of my favorite entries. I never found it boring, it didn't feel like it had any filler (or at least none that I can remember), and is overall a better Zelda game than the White Album is a Beatles record. If anything, I'd say it's more like Help: it won't blow my mind and it doesn't do anything new, but damn if it isn't a great experience! It's mostly good from beginning to end (even though I don't care much for "Dizzy miss Lizzie" and I'd rather "Yesterday" was the last song), and never made me want to skip a song (or a level/dungeon/fetch quest).
And now you made me think of my other favorite Zeldas and Beatles albums: Wind Waker/Rubber Soul and A Link Between Worlds/Abbey Road. The first pair is my favorite in each respective category, and while not perfect (the former has some difficult -if not impossible without help- to find pieces during the big fetch quest, and the latter has both "Girl" and "Michelle"), they are the ones that I enjoyed the most, even if other releases were technically or mechanically superior. As for ALBW, I loved it but got a bit tired of searching for the (optional) collectibles, just as I get annoyed by "Come together" and "Because". But pretty much everything is amazing, and the former's gameplay is so good that it could be compared to "Here comes the sun", although that may not be very accurate as it is my favorite song in the entire world, and ALBW, while being fantastic, doesn't reach that timeless place.
On the other hand, not being a huge fan of the Zelda franchise, I found TP to be one of my favorite entries. I never found it boring, it didn't feel like it had any filler (or at least none that I can remember), and is overall a better Zelda game than the White Album is a Beatles record. If anything, I'd say it's more like Help: it won't blow my mind and it doesn't do anything new, but damn if it isn't a great experience! It's mostly good from beginning to end (even though I don't care much for "Dizzy miss Lizzie" and I'd rather "Yesterday" was the last song), and never made me want to skip a song (or a level/dungeon/fetch quest).
And now you made me think of my other favorite Zeldas and Beatles albums: Wind Waker/Rubber Soul and A Link Between Worlds/Abbey Road. The first pair is my favorite in each respective category, and while not perfect (the former has some difficult -if not impossible without help- to find pieces during the big fetch quest, and the latter has both "Girl" and "Michelle"), they are the ones that I enjoyed the most, even if other releases were technically or mechanically superior. As for ALBW, I loved it but got a bit tired of searching for the (optional) collectibles, just as I get annoyed by "Come together" and "Because". But pretty much everything is amazing, and the former's gameplay is so good that it could be compared to "Here comes the sun", although that may not be very accurate as it is my favorite song in the entire world, and ALBW, while being fantastic, doesn't reach that timeless place.
Kevin Shields
Member
I like where your mind is at sir. Except you don't like "Long,Long,Long" or "Julia"? What do you have against those beautiful ballads?!
They are plain boring to me. The former is kinda tolerable if I'm in the right mood, but the latter doesn't have anything that I can enjoy. It's not horrible though, just boring. An example of a slow, mellow song that I do like is "Good night".
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
I'm no SS defender but I never really approached Zelda for a sense of menace in mind.
Though as I'm typing this I'm thinking back to my first Zelda memories with LttP and thinking about how well they mixed cute and threatening. I've switched sides. I'm with you, Mael.
However I really don't much care for the grimness of TP.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Oh, The Beatles...
I was thinking of this
But Link doesn't cheat on half a dozen girls...
Sorcerer
Member
The White album is basically the Beatles doing solo work and putting it together under their band name.
Ironically, it is probably their best album, as I was not much of a fan of solo Beatles after the breakup.
Kinda neat in the sense that we get to hear, Paul, John, George and Ringo without the influence of the band dynamic, but still be in the Beatles.
Ironically, it is probably their best album, as I was not much of a fan of solo Beatles after the breakup.
Kinda neat in the sense that we get to hear, Paul, John, George and Ringo without the influence of the band dynamic, but still be in the Beatles.
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
That guy looks dope. He took a vacation to opium island and decided to move there.
Or sort of like a Gollum character.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
I've tried playing it twice and haven't finished it. Both times I find it too mediocre and uninteresting as a game to finish. At best it's an exercise to entertain hardcore fans at worst it's a poorly designed drawn out bland experience. I wouldn't at any point liken it to The White Album which I enjoy immensely.
DidntKnowJack
Member
I think its more like the Joe's Garage Acts I -III of games. Either you get like it or you don't.
Ultimadrago
Member
Stole the words from my soul. It has a few great dungeouns, but the whole package lacks in ways that hardly make them worthy of mention aside it. As far as pros for the game go, they are (while technically true) oft overstated.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
Does the White album copy another album, add unnecessary crap to it, pause itself every few seconds to talk to you, constantly tell you what to listen to next, open up new concepts and then never expand on them, has a nasty habit of repeating parts of songs for no reason, make things unnecessarily easier to hear than the album it ripped off, have godawful pacing, and then end by switching lead singers for the last track inexplicably?
If so, then yes.
If so, then yes.