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Twin Peaks Season 3 OT |25 Years Later...It Is Happening Again

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I don't think much of anything changed from going 9 to 18 parts. I think Lynch and Frost just underestimated the amount of time their script would take on screen plus whatever happens on set. 400 pages of script usually translates to 6-7 hours of screentime. But Lynch is unusual. I mean how do you account for a character walking across the screen or someone spray painting shovels? It reads a hell of a lot faster than it performs.

I'd imagine that's always been the case with him too.

There are loads of scenes in the original series that go on for a long time that can't have been more than a few lines in a script. Like Bob crawling all over the sofas after 'Just You'. I don't think there was anything more in the script than 'Bob appears and Maddie freaks out'. All that stuff of him slowly coming towards the camera and crawling over the sofas and stuff was worked out on set... and it's amazing.


Lynch is trolling the Rock on twitter?

That's hilarious.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Nobody reacting naturally to Dougie's otherwise seriously concerning mental deficiencies is part of the humours absurdity surrounding his arc. Watching people talk themselves around his behaviour is surreal along the same note the original series hit with so much of its own larger than life characters and absurdity.

Though it's subverting so many expectations, Twin Peaks is uniquely defined by its outlandish melting pot of thematic devices that range from abstract slapstick comedy to horrifying violent crime drama. Its genre satire is one part tongue-in-cheek and another part totally earnest. It's so goofy yet enthralling and dumb yet horrifying and the cast is a weirdly satisfying combination of frustrating and enduring.

And I that's what I like most about the series so far. It's not Twin Peaks Season 3, but it's Twin peaks through and through.
 
I mean yeah, I like those scenes. But what actual story-driven content (lack of a better term) have we gotten? What have the characters accomplished? Gordon visiting Mr. C is one of the few ones really, and they weren't even in this episode! It feels like most of what we've seen is setup. Don't get me wrong, I like the show, but I would've wanted a bit higher pace.

It's not just about plot. When Lynch describes his movies he always talks about mood and atmosphere. Twin Peaks was literally pitched as being about the wind in the trees. That's not a plot. He's going for feeling and emotional response.

If you want plot just read a summary when the whole thing is over.
 
I think Lynch is getting a little too up his ass though, this tweet from him was really weird.

Just took a look at his official Twitter and don't see this Tweet in his feed. I could be missing something, though.

"Yay positive upticks" sure doesn't sound like something he would write to me.
 

Joqu

Member
I love the Dougie scenes, they're just so damn tragic. Like yeah, of course I want Cooper back badly, but that's why they're so effective to me. Whenever I see Dougie Cooper being so lost I just get sad. There's some really funny stuff in those scenes but whenever I laugh with that I get just sadder. Man.
 
I think people who are getting impatient and wanting answers are setting themselves up for disappointment. Even if you disregard that this is a Lynch/Frost joint- the same people who didn't intend to reveal the killer at all the first time around- it's also the aftermath of what happened 25 years ago. Or in Cooper's case, the fallout. This being an arduous process is the point. Just because there's been a 25 year gap doesn't make this not a continuation. In fact, I'd say that the actual real life 25 years that have gone by since Coop got stuck in the Black Lodge makes this more tragic, and no doubt was one of the reasons Frost/Lynch decided to stretch his journey as Dougie across multiple episodes. You wanted to see what happened after DoppleCoop smashed his head into the mirror? Well, this is it. In all of it's messy, gory, confusing, slow detail. The whole 18 episodes is the Twin Peaks universe 25 years later, post-The Laura Palmer Case. Not a new beginning, not a kitschy revival. This is the journey back.

I'm not expecting anything resembling classic Twin Peaks, as in Coop back on the case, until at least halfway in. And tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if he's not all the way back until the finale.
 

gabbo

Member
I mean yeah, I like those scenes. But what actual story-driven content (lack of a better term) have we gotten? What have the characters accomplished? Gordon visiting Mr. C is one of the few ones really, and they weren't even in this episode! It feels like most of what we've seen is setup. Don't get me wrong, I like the show, but I would've wanted a bit higher pace.

The original run was also about the other characters who lived in Twin Peaks too, so seeing Shelly and Norma or Hawk and Andy is just as much progression of the plot, just not the main plot. Hell, The town still doesn't actually know Leland killed Laura, unless something in the books Mark Frost wrote says otherwise
 
Plot? There's been loads of plot.

Like, both definitions of the term.

Sylvia Hastings and her lover George are seemingly manipulated by Mr C to setup Bill Hastings in Ruth Davenports murder, so that Ray can get to Bill's secretary to extract information from her. Ray potentially gets himself arrested on purpose after this interaction, perhaps to try to protect himself from Mr C.

Mr C has set up the switch with Dougie, and the hitmen to kill the disoriented Coop after the switch takes place. He's also downloaded a whole bunch of information on the jail Ray is sent to, and gets himself arrested and incarcerated in the same jail. We've already seen him use that knowledge to scare the warden and fuck with the security systems.

Dougie owes $50,000 to some bad guys. Seemingly two of these bad guys get blown up by the car bomb Mr C's hitmen left for Dougie/Coop on his car.

The second corpse in Buckhorn has the finger prints of Major Garland Briggs, directly tying that crime scene to Twin Peaks, and bringing in the military to investigate (who talk about bringing in the FBI).

The FBI meanwhile are trying to figure out what is going on with Mr C. Cole and Gordon both sense something is very wrong, while Tammy seems to have found some physical evidence that the man in the prison *isn't* Agent Cooper, since the fingerprint of at least one of his fingers (I would wager the ring finger of his left hand) is mirrored.

And that's just stuff outside of Twin Peaks.

Not sure what that is if not plot.
 

Blader

Member
I'm fine with the current pace of Coop's progress, though it does make me feel like there will be very few times where Coop is his normal self. He might not actually ever be his normal self; he may be back to "normal," but I have a hard time imagining after decades spent in the lodge and now his brain damaged state, we'll ever see the same confident, optimistic, righteous Agent Cooper again.

how come coop was normal in the black lodge, but as soon as he's out in the real world again he's a blubbering idiot?

It could partly be a consequence of how he got out (he didn't just walk out the front door), partly be because he was swapping places with a manufactured copy, partly because he and his doppelganger are existing in the world at the same time. It's probably also worth pointing out that Annie was basically catatonic when the Black Lodge spat her out, so maybe just the act of leaving of the Lodge is mentally traumatic for anyone.
 
This season so far is like 70% a test of patience. People falling over themselves to praise this, "Lynch is blowing my mind" - with WHAT? Making an extremely slow show that's a lot of plot setup with hardly any direction? Awesome, great. I'm sure it will all click into place at some point but the only amazing thing about this show so far is that people have convinced themselves that it's genuinely amazing up to this point.

I've never been a big Twin Peaks guy but I've loved Lynch's other stuff so I decided to check it out, even with limited knowledge of the original show, the first 4 episodes are pure artistic heroin, so yes, Lynch is blowing my mind, he's bringing pure unadulterated arthouse to television. Like others have said, noone else in the industry has the confidence to pull off what Lynch is doing here. Different strokes I suppose, it's been firing on all cylinders for me, can't wait for more.
 

Flipyap

Member
The town still doesn't actually know Leland killed Laura, unless something in the books Mark Frost wrote says otherwise
Not only do they know about it, Dr. Amp was somehow given access to her diary (?!). It almost sounds like it was publicized.
Dr. Lawrence Jacoby said:
The facts say her father killed her. Leland Palmer, 45.
(...)
What emerged did not immediately present as a case of parental sexual abuse,although that’s what the facts—and her explosive diary—tell us happened.
(...)
Leland spoke of “possession.” Laura wrote in her diary about an entity she called “BOB,” all caps. A malevolent being she claimed to “see”—in her father’s stead—whenever he assaulted her. Leland had no memory of his dreadful acts till the very end. A masking memory, for both of them, our “professional training” would instruct me to label it, a way for their minds to protect themselves from the unendurable truth.
 

nachum00

Member
I'm fine with the current pace of Coop's progress, though it does make me feel like there will be very few times where Coop is his normal self. He might not actually ever be his normal self; he may be back to "normal," but I have a hard time imagining after decades spent in the lodge and now his brain damaged state, we'll ever see the same confident, optimistic, righteous Agent Cooper again.
Time probably doesn't flow normally in the Black Lodge. These 25 years may have felt like minutes to Coop.
 

PolishQ

Member
how come coop was normal in the black lodge, but as soon as he's out in the real world again he's a blubbering idiot?

Upon rewatching, it became clear to me that it's a direct consequence of traveling through the electrical outlet. When he first approaches the panel and his face gets "zapped", his expression goes vacant and he seems dizzy and woozy. Prior to that, although he was in a bit of a Lodge haze, he was at least able to walk normally and ask questions ("Where are we?").
 
I'm fine with the current pace of Coop's progress, though it does make me feel like there will be very few times where Coop is his normal self. He might not actually ever be his normal self; he may be back to "normal," but I have a hard time imagining after decades spent in the lodge and now his brain damaged state, we'll ever see the same confident, optimistic, righteous Agent Cooper again.



It could partly be a consequence of how he got out (he didn't just walk out the front door), partly be because he was swapping places with a manufactured copy, partly because he and his doppelganger are existing in the world at the same time. It's probably also worth pointing out that Annie was basically catatonic when the Black Lodge spat her out, so maybe just the act of leaving of the Lodge is mentally traumatic for anyone.

Yeah. Philip Jeffries seemed all kinds of messed up by travelling via wire too in FWWM. Much more messed up in the Philadelphia scenes than in the previous Buenos Aires scene from the missing pieces.

I think a huge part of why Coop is so out of it, is that he materialized so far out of his element. He doesn't know this place, or these people. There's nothing to ground him.

Time probably doesn't flow normally in the Black Lodge. These 25 years may have felt like minutes to Coop.

While I'm sure time flows differently in the lodge, it definitely seems to be played as a long time that he's been in there. 'When can I leave?' and all that. Whether he perceived it as 25 years, I'm sure it's been more than a few days from his perspective. There doesn't seem to be any point of reference for time in there either... no clocks, or days and nights... so it's probably impossible for him to know beyond just it's been a long ass time.
 

nachum00

Member
how come coop was normal in the black lodge, but as soon as he's out in the real world again he's a blubbering idiot?
Possibly traveling through an electric current.

Or because two Coops can't exist in one reality. Mr.C's been acting weird ever since Coop switched places with Dougie.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
I loved that dischordant shift when that girl took a hit of coke and Dopple Coops crazy number presses into the alarm blares. Its obvious this season is going to be the slowest of burns and I'm ok with that.

Also the creeper at the roadhouse. Felt like it was going to go one way with the bad boy enticing the young girls but nope, the colors were shown then and there. This is not a guy you wanna fuck with. Felt like it subverted that stupid bad boy innocent girl trope.
 
I don't have a problem with the Dougie stuff and it being a little hard to believe per se, but the longer it drags on, the more the show is basically daring you to go "yeah this is ridiculous". It's okay, it just kind of feels like one joke stretched out over many scenes.

It's not really the show's overall pace I have a problem with, it's that it keeps doing expository scenes, or scenes introducing new characters, without really establishing what the relevance of any of it is. It's hard to tell what's just Twin Peaks weirdness, like Wally Brando (which I thought was terrible tbh), and what's important to the plot.

I really liked the Glass Box stuff in the first 2 episodes because it was fun and interesting to watch and it had a narrative payoff, even if I don't really have any idea how it's relevant to the overall plot. It was interesting, mysterious, and something happened, and it was just fun to watch. I didn't get that satisfaction from much that happened in the last 3 episodes.

The Bob/Cooper mirror scene was fucking awesome though. More of that.
 

Blader

Member
Time probably doesn't flow normally in the Black Lodge. These 25 years may have felt like minutes to Coop.

You're right time flows differently, but I don't expect that difference to actually play to Cooper's benefit, heh. Being left trapped in the lodge is supposed to be a hellish punishment, and feeling just a few minutes worth of that doesn't seem like all that big a deal.

This is also just my own theory, but I also figured that the reason BOB left Coop in the lodge with his own body, rather than possess it like he did with Leland, was because he wanted Cooper to actually grow old and actually feel losing 25 years of his life. There's also Laura Palmer's "I'll see you again in 25 years" and, of course, the fact that Coop is physically older.

Yeah. Philip Jeffries seemed all kinds of messed up by travelling via wire too in FWWM. Much more messed up in the Philadelphia scenes than in the previous Buenos Aires scene from the missing pieces.

Yeah, that's another one. Jeffries was pretty out of it and he was only gone for two years.
 

Blader

Member
That whole scene was really disturbing. The looped footage of BOB and the doppelganger laughing, then staring at himself in the mirror where it seems like something is gradually off but can't tell what...then you see his mouth stretch out further, the hair gray, the stubble start to poke through. Creepy.
 

LaneDS

Member
Do folks expect we'll see more Leland than the one scene he was in? I assumed prior to this starting he'd be the BOB equivalent for this series but five episodes in I'm wondering if he'll be limited to that cameo and little else (which would be a shame, Ray Wise is a treat).
 
I think Bob is taking a back seat and enjoying the ride in the Doppelganger, because Mr C is generating more than enough garmonbozia for both of them.

Perhaps this was only available as an option because Cooper went into the lodge after Window opened it. Perhaps Bob usually possesses people via other means as we saw him doing with Laura, who didn't as far as we know go to Glastonbury Grove.

Beyond that though, I've not got many ideas.

Whoever wasn't Philip Jeffries wants to "be with Bob again."

Mr C says "so you're still with me... good." on seeing Bob in the mirror, making me wonder why that's a good thing, and if Mr C has something he wants to use Bob for.

But I can't imagine Bob just playing along with whatever Mr C has planned either.

And I'm wondering what'll happen if Mr C isn't able to deliver enough garmonbozia while he's locked up. While Bob start taking over?

I get the sense that Mr C hasn't seen Bob since Episode 29, though it's definitely inconclusive. If that was his flash back, rather than a flashback for the viewers, it would support that idea.

I was focused on Mr C being a separate character with his own agency, and his own style, and refuting the idea Bob was in there... because it didn't occur to me that Bob would take a back seat. I'm really interested in what's going on there, and glad to be wrong, because that moment with the mirror was amazing, and now I have no idea what that dynamic is about.
 
Do folks expect we'll see more Leland than the one scene he was in? I assumed prior to this starting he'd be the BOB equivalent for this series but five episodes in I'm wondering if he'll be limited to that cameo and little else (which would be a shame, Ray Wise is a treat).

Part 5 has confirmed my feelings that we aren't just getting cameos from old characters, other than where real world circumstances got in the way (with Margaret and Major Briggs). I'm sure we'll see Leland again (and Ben, and James, and Bobby, and Nadine, and Norma, and everyone else returning who so far has only been in one part).
 

Blader

Member
I didn't even notice the face morph. Feeling pretty stupid over that.

A brighter version:

z1BiBkg.jpg
 

gabbo

Member
Not only do they know about it, Dr. Amp was somehow given access to her diary (?!). It almost sounds like it was publicized.

Is that from the show or a book? I don't recall that ever coming up in the show. Mind you it's been a while since I sat down and watch all of it straight through
 

Dusk Golem

A 21st Century Rockefeller
Here's a fantastic article on this season and people talking about pacing, and how Part 5 emphasizes how both everything and nothing is happening at the same time: https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/5/15739126/twin-peaks-part-5-recap-the-return-seyfried

On the surface, nothing happens in the fifth episode of the Twin Peaks miniseries.

We get introduced to a few new characters, and reintroduced to a few old ones. The gigantic, multi-faceted conspiracy that Evil Cooper is apparently part of gets a few new facets. And Dougie Jones (our ”original" Cooper) learns a few more things about how to be a human being — including the word ”agent," which sets off strange pants in him.

Or, here's the alternate version of what happens in this episode: Everything happens in the fifth episode of the Twin Peaks miniseries.

The tendrils drawing the various storylines together draw ever tighter. Dougie Jones seems to be drawing closer to his Cooper persona. Evil Cooper unleashes a horrifying plot (that involves apparently using a simple touchtone phone to set off all the alarms in the prison he's being held in — the episode's creepiest grace note). And it feels as if the curtain is being drawn back, slowly but surely, on just what all of this has to do with Twin Peaks, Washington.

So nothing happens, and everything happens. Welcome to Twin Peaks: The Return — or, as I like to call it, the ultimate defeat of TV recap culture.

I was wondering, as I watched the fifth episode, why I'm so content to just let Twin Peaks wash over me and not try too hard to pull it apart to figure out what's going on, or how all of the various Coopers will come together, or just how all of these plots will converge on Twin Peaks. (Was this the episode with the most time spent in the little town? I think it might have been.)

And then the episode dropped Amanda Seyfried — an actress whose ethereal qualities make her feel like a perfect fit for Lynch — into the middle of the action as Becky, who seems to be the daughter of original series character Shelly, and I realized why I'm just fine letting Twin Peaks do its thing.

Becky, having gotten some money from Shelly ($72, to be exact), heads back out to a car driven by her drug-using boyfriend. After the two argue for a bit, he wins her over with some awful jokes, then drives off, putting some romantic music on the car radio. Becky tilts her head back to look up at the sky, and Lynch holds on her face for what feels like five minutes (it's closer to just one). It's just an overhead shot of a girl in a car, looking up at the sky, possibly high. But it feels like it's the most beautiful, most significant thing you've ever seen.

This is Lynch's greatest strength. He'll imbue an otherwise mundane scene of, say, police officers trudging through evidence with a weird, cool menace. Or he'll introduce crazy comedic beats into the middle of a supernatural horror story. Or he'll take a simple moment like this — two young lovers drive away in a car — and make it feel like one of the most significant things that has ever happened to either. The world might as well stop to let Becky have her moment. That's how meaningful this scene feels.

A lot of TV — even really good TV — is predicated on a sort of emotional hand-holding, on making sure that you know how you're supposed to feel about the scene you've just watched, even if it's filled with enormously complicated emotions that must be processed. For an example of how this can be done terrifically, think of the final stretch of episodes of Breaking Bad, which constantly made sure you knew Walter White had lost his soul, but there were just enough shreds of it left for him to make a stand. Whatever questions the show raised were strictly binary: has Walter lost his soul?

On Twin Peaks, every emotion seems to be happening all at once, which is closer to the way most of us experience life. If you have a fight with your partner, then get a big promotion at work you've been hoping for, the latter doesn't wipe out the former, and vice versa. You're constantly living in the muddle, every day of your life, and that's something TV struggles to depict, because TV likes clean, sharp edges to keep you coming back to it.

Clean, sharp edges are the antithesis of what Twin Peaks is about, though, which means it can get away with some truly unusual stuff. I suspect that, say, the beeping machine that shrinks down into a tiny version of itself (or compresses into a crumpled up version of itself) will have something to do with something. But maybe it won't.

You don't always know which moments of your life will be the important ones, and even if you did, you might struggle to really give them their full weight. So it is on Twin Peaks, and even if the show goes about it in an odd fashion, it captures the way it feels to live in the midst of vast oceans of uncertainty.
 
Is that from the show or a book? I don't recall that ever coming up in the show. Mind you it's been a while since I sat down and watch all of it straight through

It's from the book. They may have consulted with Jacoby as a mental health professional familiar with the people involved to get his take on things. That was my take anyways.

I have a new theory about Secret History actually.

I think it's misinformation. I think the changes are so that someone aware of the dossier can catch out Mr C and tell him apart from the real Coop. The changes bring the action to the same end point (IE the point at which Mr C comes out of the lodge). We don't know that he is aware of any details about Coop's life (Annie was in the lodge, so he would have known about her eitherway). So perhaps this was written to sneak untrue details into his memory, so that someone could tell him apart from the real Cooper.

The changes are, if I'm not mistaken, all contradictory to things Coop already knew (like he was told the story of how Nadine lost her eye, he knew Annie, he knew Audrey).

It's just a theory anyway, but I think Garland left it as a trap, and since it doesn't contradict things Mr C would have seen out in the world, I think that idea works. At least for now.
 

Dusk Golem

A 21st Century Rockefeller
Also, does anyone have any theories on the Red Balloons in Dougie's bits?

There's a collection of Red Balloons outside of where Dougie works by the statue he's staring at, from Sonny Jim's birthday party there's a leftover Red Balloon inside of Dougie's house, and in the house with the kid and drugged-out woman there's a Red Balloon loitering inside as well. And every time the Red Balloon's appear, they're shot in such a way as if to make sure the Red Balloon is in the shot and is noticeable in the background. It is especially noticeable when they do this with the statue shots and how they angle it.

I don't know why there's so many Red Balloons in the Dougie side of the storyline. I almost want to take it directly and say it's supposed to be a literal red herring, but I'm not sure Lynch would go that direct.
 
Also, does anyone have any theories on the Red Balloons in Dougie's bits?

There's a collection of Red Balloons outside of where Dougie works by the statue he's staring at, from Sonny Jim's birthday party there's a leftover Red Balloon inside of Dougie's house, and in the house with the kid and drugged-out woman there's a Red Balloon loitering inside as well. And every time the Red Balloon's appear, they're shot in such a way as if to make sure the Red Balloon is in the shot and is noticeable in the background. It is especially noticeable when they do this with the statue shots and how they angle it.

I don't know why there's so many Red Balloons in the Dougie side of the storyline. I almost want to take it directly and say it's supposed to be a literal red herring, but I'm not sure Lynch would go that direct.
No theories that I've seen. Is lynch a fan of Nina?
 
Not sure if it's been pointed out, or if it was just obvious to everyone, but the fingerprint that Tammy focuses on is Coopers (or I assume Mr C's as she seems to be comparing against Coopers) Left Ring Finger, but it has been reversed.

pVFfW6t.jpg


From the ones she scrolls through it appears to be the only one flipped like that.
 

MisterR

Member
Here's a fantastic article on this season and people talking about pacing, and how Part 5 emphasizes how both everything and nothing is happening at the same time: https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/5/15739126/twin-peaks-part-5-recap-the-return-seyfried

Really well written and really sums my feelings on it up way better than I could have. There is really nothing like Twin Peaks on TV. To me it elevates the medium, even during this golden age of great television.
 

Flipyap

Member
Also, does anyone have any theories on the Red Balloons in Dougie's bits?

There's a collection of Red Balloons outside of where Dougie works by the statue he's staring at, from Sonny Jim's birthday party there's a leftover Red Balloon inside of Dougie's house, and in the house with the kid and drugged-out woman there's a Red Balloon loitering inside as well. And every time the Red Balloon's appear, they're shot in such a way as if to make sure the Red Balloon is in the shot and is noticeable in the background. It is especially noticeable when they do this with the statue shots and how they angle it.

I don't know why there's so many Red Balloons in the Dougie side of the storyline. I almost want to take it directly and say it's supposed to be a literal red herring, but I'm not sure Lynch would go that direct.
If I remember correctly, the red ball mountain was an unrelated art installation. Not that it's not worth pointing out, it could be yet another meaningful lucky accident.

I regret not saving every single spy shot folks have managed to snap of that shoot (I'm afraid those might have died with Dugpa's spoiler section). It's fun to finally figure out what the hell was going on in those photos. Funnily enough, no-one seemed to comment on Cooper's strange behavior, so it only seemed like a questionable wardrobe choice (and even that was enough to get people speculating about time travel, heh).
 
Not sure if it's been pointed out, or if it was just obvious to everyone, but the fingerprint that Tammy focuses on is Coopers (or I assume Mr C's as she seems to be comparing against Coopers) Left Ring Finger, but it has been reversed.

pVFfW6t.jpg


From the ones she scrolls through it appears to be the only one flipped like that.

I wasn't sure, because I hadn't rewatched but that's what I took from that scene. Thanks for confirming this.

Left ring finger has a mirrored finger print. It's interesting that the text is mirrored too though.
 

Mariolee

Member
Also can someone explain to me how Agent Preston got a picture of Dale in what looks loke the Red Room? I could've sworn those werr the classic drapes.
 
Also can someone explain to me how Agent Preston got a picture of Dale in what looks loke the Red Room? I could've sworn those werr the classic drapes.

It looked like a picture from the Great Northern or something based on the lighting.

Also Lodge Magic is totally gonna help Dougie report on those case files.
 

PolishQ

Member
Also can someone explain to me how Agent Preston got a picture of Dale in what looks like the Red Room? I could've sworn those were the classic drapes.

It's actually Cooper in the Sheriff's Department conference room from episode 4 of the original series. Wood paneling, not drapes.
 
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