Support NeoGAF

[a very cute dog]

Dafuq did I watch, how blind can you be to defend shit like this last episode. I'm out, the attempt to bring the series back failed. Nothing willl be resolved like the last time and shit will only get more random at this point.

Lol, different strokes, my friend

 

[Zoe]

-I personally take it that the Waiting Room is between Lodges, I need to recall but I think this is mentioned in original series somewhere that the Waiting Room is connected to both (but it's been a while, so I could very well have misremembered). I also take it that the Lodge doesn't really have a proper hierarchy system, I think they all just kind of live and do their own thing and associate. Like I don't think they outright want to stop BOB as it benefits them too to get some of that sweet Garmonbozia, but some in the Lodges don't appreciate his methods and want to stop him from doing that. They're okay with BOB being out for 25 years to do his thing with the doppelganger, but seem upset that he may be screwing with the rules of nature of the Lodge. Overall I get the feeling the entities of the Lodge have 'rules of nature' they abide by more than some proper ruling system, that the Lodges themselves have a will and system that they abide by, but BOB is a problem child who doesn't always act in the best interests of nature and does so selfishly, and worries the other entities.

There seems to be conflict over ownership of Garmonbozia. BOB didn't seem too happy in FWWM to hand it over to The Arm.

 

[Vectorman]

This season will be treated like most of all of Lynch's work: Will be hailed by the hardcore as a work of art and cult classic while it will be a head scratcher to the rest of the world that doesn't get Lynch like they always have...and now I will sit there and think about a timeline where he did Return Of the Jedi.

 

[plagiarize]

More hand wringing about viewing figures.

Get over it.

Do you want to know what Showtime get out of this? It isn't viewing figures (though it is subscribers). They just sent out a clear message to every talented show runner that Showtime is the place they want to put their show.

TV show creators will be clamoring to work with Showtime after Part 8, and judging by the rest of their output, they desperately need better creators working with them.

This is a limited series. It has always been called that. It says it right on the show page on the Showtime app. It's not Season 1 of Twin Peaks: The Return. It's Twin Peaks: The Return, which is an 18 part limited series. No plans for further seasons (even though they might be something Frost and Lynch would be open to doing were the viewing figures right).

Embrace the notion that these 18 new episodes of Twin Peaks are all that we're going to get.

And get over the viewing figures.

Showtime seem very happy with the show, and the critical reaction. And you can bet your ass that people pitching shows are going to make Showtime top of their list. This is going to get them better content as a result, because they just sent out the message that Showtime are prepared to give show runners more creative control than anyone else.

They might squander that impression or fail to live up to it.

But that's what Part 8 of Twin Peaks did for them.

 

[ActWan]

"This is the water and this is the well. Drink full, and descend. The horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within."

Did anyone think of the white horse from the hallucinations of Sarah Palmer? I think it might be a clue that the girl is Sarah (perhaps it's too much of a stretch, though)

 

[PolishQ]

"This is the water and this is the well. Drink full, and descend. The horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within."

Did anyone think of the white horse from the hallucinations of Sarah Palmer? I think it might be a clue that the girl is Sarah (perhaps it's too much of a stretch, though)

Don't know if it's Sarah, but definitely thought of the white horse. Plus we hear a horse neigh when the Woodsman leaves the radio station.

 

[Zach]

TV show creators will be clamoring to work with Showtime after Part 8, and judging by the rest of their output, they desperately need better creators working with them.

Ain't that the truth. I've been happy to pay for a subscription out of appreciation for getting this new Twin Peaks series, and would likely stay subscribed beyond Twin Peaks if there was anything else that looked interesting. But from what I've seen, nothing else looks worthwhile.

 

[Slaythe]

Btw, the music in part 8 sounded a lot like The Dig, if you guys know that game.

Loved it.

To go back on theories, I assume Bob found out what Laura was, and tried to corrupt her to get access to the white lodge through her, maybe ?

 

[Enoch Root]

Don't know if it's Sarah, but definitely thought of the white horse. Plus we hear a horse neigh when the Woodsman leaves the radio station.

Probably unrelated, but the casino where Cooper becomes Mr Jackpots is called Silver Mustangs. Mustang is a horse.

 

[Chumley]

More hand wringing about viewing figures.

Get over it.

Do you want to know what Showtime get out of this? It isn't viewing figures (though it is subscribers). They just sent out a clear message to every talented show runner that Showtime is the place they want to put their show.

TV show creators will be clamoring to work with Showtime after Part 8, and judging by the rest of their output, they desperately need better creators working with them.

This is a limited series. It has always been called that. It says it right on the show page on the Showtime app. It's not Season 1 of Twin Peaks: The Return. It's Twin Peaks: The Return, which is an 18 part limited series. No plans for further seasons (even though they might be something Frost and Lynch would be open to doing were the viewing figures right).

Embrace the notion that these 18 new episodes of Twin Peaks are all that we're going to get.

And get over the viewing figures.

Showtime seem very happy with the show, and the critical reaction. And you can bet your ass that people pitching shows are going to make Showtime top of their list. This is going to get them better content as a result, because they just sent out the message that Showtime are prepared to give show runners more creative control than anyone else.

They might squander that impression or fail to live up to it.

But that's what Part 8 of Twin Peaks did for them.

I don't disagree, I just wish what could very possibly be the last thing Lynch ever does gets more mainstream popularity.

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

More hand wringing about viewing figures.

Get over it.

Do you want to know what Showtime get out of this? It isn't viewing figures (though it is subscribers). They just sent out a clear message to every talented show runner that Showtime is the place they want to put their show.

TV show creators will be clamoring to work with Showtime after Part 8, and judging by the rest of their output, they desperately need better creators working with them.

This is a limited series. It has always been called that. It says it right on the show page on the Showtime app. It's not Season 1 of Twin Peaks: The Return. It's Twin Peaks: The Return, which is an 18 part limited series. No plans for further seasons (even though they might be something Frost and Lynch would be open to doing were the viewing figures right).

Embrace the notion that these 18 new episodes of Twin Peaks are all that we're going to get.

And get over the viewing figures.

Showtime seem very happy with the show, and the critical reaction. And you can bet your ass that people pitching shows are going to make Showtime top of their list. This is going to get them better content as a result, because they just sent out the message that Showtime are prepared to give show runners more creative control than anyone else.

They might squander that impression or fail to live up to it.

But that's what Part 8 of Twin Peaks did for them.

Showtime got David Lynch in 2014.

If they can get him who’s this mystical creator who wouldn’t have worked with Showtime?

 

[bunbun777]

You know critically almost everything David has done has not been initially received well. But then years later critics site his movies as great and sometimes the best. And the revenue, his movies don't ever pull in big numbers. He seems like the most famous not famous director.

 

[dead souls]

Streaming matters a great deal because Showtime is a premium subscriber platform. We know for a fact that Twin Peaks led to the biggest single day boost in subscribers in Showtime history. The subscriber numbers mean more than a night of viewers.

Without hard numbers the whole "biggest single day boost in subscribers" thing is basically meaningless spin from Showtime used to distract from how badly this is performing in the public numbers that are released.

I mean, think about it logically for a minute. What has Showtime aired in the last few years that would make people sign up on a specific day for the service? The only thing that would have been notable is if the Twin Peaks premiere didn't have a decent single day boost in people signing up for the network.

 

[Real Hero]

I really doubt this is doing that well on the streaming services. I doubt there's anyone left of the 'where's audrey and real cooper??? audience watching at this point. It doesn't matter at all though, once it's its done it exists for ever as the 3rd season on twin peaks

 

[kevin1025]

More hand wringing about viewing figures.

Get over it.

Do you want to know what Showtime get out of this? It isn't viewing figures (though it is subscribers). They just sent out a clear message to every talented show runner that Showtime is the place they want to put their show.

TV show creators will be clamoring to work with Showtime after Part 8, and judging by the rest of their output, they desperately need better creators working with them.

This is a limited series. It has always been called that. It says it right on the show page on the Showtime app. It's not Season 1 of Twin Peaks: The Return. It's Twin Peaks: The Return, which is an 18 part limited series. No plans for further seasons (even though they might be something Frost and Lynch would be open to doing were the viewing figures right).

Embrace the notion that these 18 new episodes of Twin Peaks are all that we're going to get.

And get over the viewing figures.

Showtime seem very happy with the show, and the critical reaction. And you can bet your ass that people pitching shows are going to make Showtime top of their list. This is going to get them better content as a result, because they just sent out the message that Showtime are prepared to give show runners more creative control than anyone else.

They might squander that impression or fail to live up to it.

But that's what Part 8 of Twin Peaks did for them.

I hope this is the case, but Showtime's track record is to pick up shows that can only sustain a single season, two at best and then make 7+ seasons out of it. I think they struck gold with getting Lynch, and they're happy to have this, but I think it'll be something that doesn't happen as often as we hope.

 

[PolishQ]

I mean, think about it logically for a minute. What has Showtime aired in the last few years that would make people sign up on specific day for the service? The only thing that would have been notable is if the Twin Peaks premiere didn't have a decent single day boost in people signing up for the network.

Isn't that the point, though? Twin Peaks is much more of an "event series" than Showtime's typical content. It brought in a lot of new subscribers, most of whom are streaming the show. If I were Showtime, I'd be more concerned with how to keep these subscribers interested once Twin Peaks is over.

 

[Frank West]

What the fuck was that, lol. I feel sick now ^^

 

[polyh3dron]

No UFC cross promos with Bisping was a missed opportunity smh

Bisping ran away from his job in this show just like he's been running away from defending his UFC title against a legit contender. That's kind of cross promo if you think about it.

 

[Righty10]

This may have been posted earlier, but I noticed something today while looking at a high quality image of the experiment from episode 8. (The artifacting was so bad on the stream I couldn't see it)

If you look closely, it has antennas on its head which look similar to Mr C's Ace of Spades card he showed Darya earlier in the season. It seems that Mr C is searching for the experiment.

I'd post pictures but I'm on mobile and can't find the hi res shot of the experiment again.

 

[poppos2097]

This may have been posted earlier, but I noticed something today while looking at a high quality image of the experiment from episode 8. (The artifacting was so bad on the stream I couldn't see it)

If you look closely, it has antennas on its head which look similar to Mr C's Ace of Spades card he showed Darya earlier in the season. It seems that Mr C is searching for the experiment.

I'd post pictures but I'm on mobile and can't find the hi res shot of the experiment again.

Someone mentioned this upthread but the shape on the card reminded me of an inverted or upside down Owl Cave ring symbol.

 

[31GhostsIV]

I had forgotten about the Owl image in the hood, so yeah that does lean it towards the possibility the hooded figure is the Man-Sized Owl Creature in the woods of Twin Peaks. Now I'm actually hoping this is true and it appears later in this season, I want my man-sized Owl Creature who may be related to that mysterious hooded figure in the original series. It's also noteworthy right before Briggs gets abducted and the figure appears in the trees, both Briggs and Cooper see an Owl fly overhead.

Owl signifies it could also be Phillip Jeffries.

Don't know if it's Sarah, but definitely thought of the white horse. Plus we hear a horse neigh when the Woodsman leaves the radio station.

Cooper sees the horse on the way out of the Lodge - is it possible we're hearing the horse as the Woodsman returns to the Lodge?

 

[Slaythe]

There's so much tease going on.

I hope they either had FWWM secret footage or somehow managed to film stuff with Bowie.

 

[31GhostsIV]

I really wouldn't be concerned about the ratings. This is the kind of show that will resonate for a very long time, people will still be buying the box set decades from now just like they do with the original series, while Showtime will continue to make money from it.

Not sure people will be clamouring for copies of 'the complete Ray Donovan' in 2027.

Listening to TSHOTP - has anyone come up with a valid reason for the various errors yet?

 

[Slaythe]

The ratings are fine as a whole.

This is cable so they care mostly about subs and VOD.

But more importantly, Twin Peaks has WORLDWIDE fame and cult following. This gets a lot more traction than 90% of their other shows internationally.

If the ending doesn't suck (cryptic and ambiguous is fine but not flat out suck), they'll have another cult classic on their hands.

In this day and age, that's not bad at all. They're in it for the money, but people behind this are not all greedy and have a passion for it too. This is a project they knew wouldn't be a mainstream juggernaut. They were fine with it, and we can be grateful they gave it a chance.

 

[JoJoShabadoo]

I think the scene where Ray shoots Cooper might be one of my favorite creepy Lynch scenes. The music and their movements, and the way they instantly showed up just makes it so good.

 

[Chumley]

I think the scene where Ray shoots Cooper might be one of my favorite creepy Lynch scenes. The music and their movements, and the way they instantly showed up just makes it so good.

And the slowed down screaming with shots of the woodsmen layed over it, fucking creepy.

 

[plagiarize]

Showtime got David Lynch in 2014.

If they can get him who's this mystical creator who wouldn't have worked with Showtime?

They got David and Mark, because they had a long standing relationship with David Nevins (who worked on the original series). That's why they gave him (and Showtime) first refusal.

Who else was going to Showtime first before this show? Pretty much nobody I'd imagine. Now, I think anyone with a strong vision will go to Showtime first, because they happily aired what is most likely the most artistic and uncommercial hour of televised drama to date.

 

[Camper Van Beethoven]

They got David and Mark, because they had a long standing relationship with David Nevins (who worked on the original series). That's why they gave him (and Showtime) first refusal.

Who else was going to Showtime first before this show? Pretty much nobody I'd imagine. Now, I think anyone with a strong vision will go to Showtime first, because they happily aired what is most likely the most artistic and uncommercial hour of televised drama to date.

If Showtime wanted to throw money at someone to make a TV show there’s no reason anyone would say no, be it now or 3 years ago. Besides the typical way these things work are production companies approaching channels, not channels approaching creators.

I find it really hard to believe there’s some guy who wouldn’t have made a show for showtime if they offered him the money to make it and creative freedom, which they gave lynch, but now they will. And if they’re not offering the same terms that they offered lynch than why would the fact Lynch had creative freedom make a difference either way?

 

[Ragnarsson]

I finally did it. I finished season 2, then proceeded to watch Fire Walk with Me and The Missing Pieces - and, just a couple of hours ago, I watched the first episode of season 3. To say I'm in love with this show feels like an understatement.

What surprised me the most, to be quite honest, was Fire Walk With Me. For years, I had been told it was a crappy movie. I guess I can understand how people thought that if they were expecting some form of closure after season 2's amazing finale. Putting those expectations aside, I think that it's a truly great movie and probably one of the best horror movies I've seen. We knew what happened to Laura, but seeing it through her perspective just hit me in an unexpected way. I also loved how it messed with the notion that Leland was always controlled by BOB - it felt like there were times when Leland's dark side was the one in charge, and not a supernatural entity.

Some of the deleted scenes were surprisingly great, too - I can understand how Nadine and Ed get cut, but the extended sequence in the FBI headquarters was twisted in all the right ways. Shame that the first Palmer family dinner sequence got cut too, I feel it would have given even more weight to the "wash your hands" sequence.

Regarding the first episode of this season, I loved it. I dunno what to think of most of what I've seen, but it definitely feels like Twin Peaks (well, at least it feels much like Fire Walk With Me, which is great). Can't wait to see the rest.

 

[WriterGK]

Ain't that the truth. I've been happy to pay for a subscription out of appreciation for getting this new Twin Peaks series, and would likely stay subscribed beyond Twin Peaks if there was anything else that looked interesting. But from what I've seen, nothing else looks worthwhile.

Have you seen Billions season 1 and 2 yet? Its Showtime....

 

[VistraNorrez]

You have quite a trip with season 3. Really interested in your perspective on how they all work when you can watch them at will, Ragnarsson. Good timing on journey. The 2 week break won't be too hard on you.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So, um, what the fuck was that?

What was with the almost 10 minute nuclear explosion scene? What the hell was that thing that was born and made its way into the girls mouth? What the fuck at those black face guys?

I just don't know man. I'm down for anything Lynch and high concept shows/episodes in general, but this was something too high concept for me. I felt most of it went completely over my head or I just didn't 'get' what the point of a lot scenes was.

I'm tempted to rewatch the episode, but I feel it's only going to deepen the feeling of me not 'getting it'

 

[Zelenogorsk]

One of the best hours of television i've ever seen. David Lynch getting to make this reminds me of George Miller getting to make Fury Road, just a director letting you know they still got it.

 

[Zach]

Have you seen Billions season 1 and 2 yet? Its Showtime....

I'm mad just skimming the Wikipedia entry. Heh... I don't know if it's for me! But I'll keep it in mind. Maybe I'll feel crazy and give it a go eventually.

 

[Zach]

So, um, what the fuck was that?

What was with the almost 10 minute nuclear explosion scene? What the hell was that thing that was born and made its way into the girls mouth? What the fuck at those black face guys?

I just don't know man. I'm down for anything Lynch and high concept shows/episodes in general, but this was something too high concept for me. I felt most of it went completely over my head or I just didn't 'get' what the point of a lot scenes was.

I'm tempted to rewatch the episode, but I feel it's only going to deepen the feeling of me not 'getting it'

It's been addressed thoroughly throughout the thread. You can take a look back or check out this little recap that someone posted earlier.

It'll make more sense if you read around. Or rewatch! I don't think it'll make it worse for your understanding. It can only help.

 

[Real Hero]

So, um, what the fuck was that?

What was with the almost 10 minute nuclear explosion scene? What the hell was that thing that was born and made its way into the girls mouth? What the fuck at those black face guys?

I just don't know man. I'm down for anything Lynch and high concept shows/episodes in general, but this was something too high concept for me. I felt most of it went completely over my head or I just didn't 'get' what the point of a lot scenes was.

I'm tempted to rewatch the episode, but I feel it's only going to deepen the feeling of me not 'getting it'

The creation of or the moment Bob entered our world. It was pretty simple really

 

[moggio]

So, um, what the fuck was that?

What was with the almost 10 minute nuclear explosion scene? What the hell was that thing that was born and made its way into the girls mouth? What the fuck at those black face guys?

I just don't know man. I'm down for anything Lynch and high concept shows/episodes in general, but this was something too high concept for me. I felt most of it went completely over my head or I just didn't 'get' what the point of a lot scenes was.

I'm tempted to rewatch the episode, but I feel it's only going to deepen the feeling of me not 'getting it'

If you're struggling with the themes and concepts of this episode, the Idle Thumbs Rewatch Podcast might be useful for you:

https://youtu.be/SWM55ak1bsk

 

[Chumley]

The creation of or the moment Bob entered our world. It was pretty simple really

Also the woodsmen and Laura Palmer.

 

[Blader]

So, um, what the fuck was that?

What was with the almost 10 minute nuclear explosion scene? What the hell was that thing that was born and made its way into the girls mouth? What the fuck at those black face guys?

I just don't know man. I'm down for anything Lynch and high concept shows/episodes in general, but this was something too high concept for me. I felt most of it went completely over my head or I just didn't 'get' what the point of a lot scenes was.

I'm tempted to rewatch the episode, but I feel it's only going to deepen the feeling of me not 'getting it'

Black Lodge spirits feed on pain and suffering. The atom bomb is the ultimate in creating pain and suffering. The first atom bomb test either created or brought into our world the Black Lodge spirits (the "black face guys" though it's really more soot they're covered in lol). "Between two worlds, fire walk with me."

The bug that crept into the girl's mouth was a newborn BOB infesting his first victim.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

So, um, what the fuck was that?

What was with the almost 10 minute nuclear explosion scene? What the hell was that thing that was born and made its way into the girls mouth? What the fuck at those black face guys?

I just don't know man. I'm down for anything Lynch and high concept shows/episodes in general, but this was something too high concept for me. I felt most of it went completely over my head or I just didn't 'get' what the point of a lot scenes was.

I'm tempted to rewatch the episode, but I feel it's only going to deepen the feeling of me not 'getting it'

Yeah, not going to lie, I really like Twin Peaks alot, and this season sure is different, which I'm ok with, but even still I have no idea wtf this episode was, and all I can see is everyone else calling it genius =/

 

[Joqu]

I finally did it. I finished season 2, then proceeded to watch Fire Walk with Me and The Missing Pieces - and, just a couple of hours ago, I watched the first episode of season 3. To say I'm in love with this show feels like an understatement.

What surprised me the most, to be quite honest, was Fire Walk With Me. For years, I had been told it was a crappy movie. I guess I can understand how people thought that if they were expecting some form of closure after season 2's amazing finale. Putting those expectations aside, I think that it's a truly great movie and probably one of the best horror movies I've seen. We knew what happened to Laura, but seeing it through her perspective just hit me in an unexpected way. I also loved how it messed with the notion that Leland was always controlled by BOB - it felt like there were times when Leland's dark side was the one in charge, and not a supernatural entity.

Some of the deleted scenes were surprisingly great, too - I can understand how Nadine and Ed get cut, but the extended sequence in the FBI headquarters was twisted in all the right ways. Shame that the first Palmer family dinner sequence got cut too, I feel it would have given even more weight to the "wash your hands" sequence.

Regarding the first episode of this season, I loved it. I dunno what to think of most of what I've seen, but it definitely feels like Twin Peaks (well, at least it feels much like Fire Walk With Me, which is great). Can't wait to see the rest.

I like you, Ragnarsson. Fire Walk with Me is one of my favourite movies period, it's a shame its reputation persists to a big enough degree that I've seen far too many newcomers hesitate to even watch the movie. Luckily, I feel like it has been getting reappraised in the past few years, and especially the existence of season 3 will only do that film good. It can finally stand on its own now, without the expectation of continuation and closure.

How familiar are you with David Lynch's work in general? The fact that you loved FWWM and the first episode of season 3 makes me pretty confident a lot of it would be up your alley if you haven't experienced it. Though you have the rest of season 3 so far to watch first of course.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/twin_peaks/s03/e08

david lynch is a god.

this is my kind of art.

Lynch sama!

 

[Kurdel]

I still can't stop thinking about this episode.

The whole roach-toad and small town put to sleep is a horrible nightmare scenario, so good.

 

[Frank West]

The song from NIN is fucking awesome btw. Who wrote this? Lynch or Reznor? I seriously can't tell. This sounds like pure Lynch.

 

[plagiarize]

If Showtime wanted to throw money at someone to make a TV show there's no reason anyone would say no, be it now or 3 years ago. Besides the typical way these things work are production companies approaching channels, not channels approaching creators.

I find it really hard to believe there's some guy who wouldn't have made a show for showtime if they offered him the money to make it and creative freedom, which they gave lynch, but now they will. And if they're not offering the same terms that they offered lynch than why would the fact Lynch had creative freedom make a difference either way?

The point is people come and pitch ideas to the channels, not the other way around, and if you're the fourth or fifth choice for most creatives (or production companies) then you're getting the dregs.

And it looks like Showtime have been getting the dregs, Twin Peaks aside. This is going to make Showtime one of the places people want to be, vs a place people settle for after they struck out everywhere else.

The point is that the hypothetical person you're talking about, got a deal somewhere else before even trying to arrange a pitch with Showtime.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Yeah, not going to lie, I really like Twin Peaks alot, and this season sure is different, which I'm ok with, but even still I have no idea wtf this episode was, and all I can see is everyone else calling it genius =/

Same here, it just didn't occur to me whilst watching this was an origins story, just went totally over my head and I was just sat thinking WTF is this and WTF is happening right now?

 

[Puck Beaverton]

The person who called this Lynch's version of Tree of Life is absolutely correct btw.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

Now this is a cool find, someone on reddit saw this on page 14 of the book Twin Peaks: An Access Guide to the Town originally published in 1991 (and written by Frost and Lynch):

https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comments/6ju0ml/s3e8spoilers_uself_titled_found_this_im_just/

Finding breadcrumbs like this for their potential initial season 3 plans going back that far is a treat.

 

[Frank West]

Oh, is evil Coop back in the lodge? Does that mean good Coop is coming back? I'm not sure but it seems like that or did I miss something?

 

[31GhostsIV]

The song from NIN is fucking awesome btw. Who wrote this? Lynch or Reznor? I seriously can't tell. This sounds like pure Lynch.

Reznor, 'She's Gone Away' from the Not the Actual Events EP that released back in late December. I bought it on vinyl day one and i'm still waiting for it to arrive :-/

When the song came out, and given the overall tone of the EP (it was post Trump's election) I assumed the 'she' was liberty.