sackboy2197
Member
That's definitely not what I took away from the movie. It's a really interesting theory, I'll try to pay closer attention to those details next time I watch it.
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Twin Peaks Season 3 OT |25 Years Later...It Is Happening Again
- Thread starter Sumio Mondo
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Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I said this before the new season started when people were speculating the new season would be like Inland Empire, IE isn't my personal favorite Lynch film but I do love it. I think the first time you watch it there is almost zero chance you can walk away legitimately feeling you understood what you just watched. But it does start to make sense and you begin to notice things on rewatches. Some hate the low-quality look of the film, but I think it works for the film in question. I think IE has some of Lynch most beautiful and nightmarish individual scenes, there's some scenes in the film that struck a heavy chord with me emotionally and I'm sure many people remember the 2-3 scenes in the film that are like something straight out of a nightmare. I like it a lot and I've enjoyed it a bit more each time I've rewatched it (seen it four times now), but again not my favorite of his works either.
I see Straight Story get placed towards the bottom of so many people's Lynch films list, which makes me sad. I think there's a lot more to the film than many think, and I can say when I initially watched it I was very surprised how much I enjoyed it.
I mentioned this theory in the very same topic a few weeks ago, and I'll say if you pay attention to the movie you may notice there's parts of the 'straight story' that don't add up, and when you begin noticing contradictions and allusions to something darker... Well, I'll say again I think there's more to Straight Story than many think there is. I think there's a 'straight' way to interpret it, and a 'crooked' way, but the 'crooked' interpretation/clues can be completely missed if you're not paying attention because a lot of the movie seems like a feel good moment, but you might notice every time the main character begins spilling a bit about himself he directly contradicts himself (IE, at one point in the movie he said he gave up drinking after coming back from war, but then later in the movie to a priest he confesses to a priest that his drinking problem was part of what made him and his brother separate, which according to him earlier in the film he hadn't been drinking since long before he and his brother split up). And that's not the only contradiction he makes, and when you begin piecing together what else he's lying or avoiding talking about and various clues hidden around the movie, the journey he's taking on his tractor and the characters he meets begin to make a LOT more sense.
It's something I love about the movie is that you can take it on face value, or you can realize there's something far more crooked to this 'straight story' than it initially lets on.
I don't think there's really any way at this moment for us to know 100% what it is, but I don't think it's BOB personally at this point in time. I am siding with the theory that the Drog-Flea is what Mr. C has been looking for and what he showed on the card in Part 2, but again we won't know until we know.
I see Straight Story get placed towards the bottom of so many people's Lynch films list, which makes me sad. I think there's a lot more to the film than many think, and I can say when I initially watched it I was very surprised how much I enjoyed it.
I mentioned this theory in the very same topic a few weeks ago, and I'll say if you pay attention to the movie you may notice there's parts of the 'straight story' that don't add up, and when you begin noticing contradictions and allusions to something darker... Well, I'll say again I think there's more to Straight Story than many think there is. I think there's a 'straight' way to interpret it, and a 'crooked' way, but the 'crooked' interpretation/clues can be completely missed if you're not paying attention because a lot of the movie seems like a feel good moment, but you might notice every time the main character begins spilling a bit about himself he directly contradicts himself (IE, at one point in the movie he said he gave up drinking after coming back from war, but then later in the movie to a priest he confesses to a priest that his drinking problem was part of what made him and his brother separate, which according to him earlier in the film he hadn't been drinking since long before he and his brother split up). And that's not the only contradiction he makes, and when you begin piecing together what else he's lying or avoiding talking about and various clues hidden around the movie, the journey he's taking on his tractor and the characters he meets begin to make a LOT more sense.
It's something I love about the movie is that you can take it on face value, or you can realize there's something far more crooked to this 'straight story' than it initially lets on.
I don't think there's really any way at this moment for us to know 100% what it is, but I don't think it's BOB personally at this point in time. I am siding with the theory that the Drog-Flea is what Mr. C has been looking for and what he showed on the card in Part 2, but again we won't know until we know.
Yeah, I've seen this discussed. I too will keep it in mind next time I give it a watch.
VistraNorrez
Member
In regards to Inland Empire, Lynch released, or was featured on, a promo disc called Room to Dream, which included a scene directed during Inland Empire production and features cast from it.
This came out before IE, and you could "order" it for free, which I did. I took it for a deleted scene from the film, but it never showed up on More Things That Happened. Nonetheless it's an interesting scene that deserves more exposure.
This came out before IE, and you could "order" it for free, which I did. I took it for a deleted scene from the film, but it never showed up on More Things That Happened. Nonetheless it's an interesting scene that deserves more exposure.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I actually hadn't seen it before. Very interesting.
Wow, definitely not a fan of that interpretation. But wildly differing theories is part of makes Lynch stuff so good. And the best part is that he seems to want it that way.
plagiarize
Banned
Since you obviously didn't go and look up what mainstream means, as I suggested, let me get the dictionary definition for you.
Oxford Dictionary said:
Twin Peaks The Return isn't mainstream. It's not a matter of opinion, unless you are of the opinion that Twin Peaks The Return is conventional, and representative of the dominant trend in television right now. That would be a pretty crazy opinion to hold.
Is Twin Peaks part of pop culture? Yes. Was it very popular at one time? Yes. Tens of millions of people watched it in the early 90s.
You can put it on a thousand magazine covers and this limited series still won't be a normal or conventional piece of art or part of any dominant trend in the arts.
You seem to be equating well known to mainstream. Perhaps I could have been less aggressive trying to correct you, but you don't seem to know that it's okay to admit you're wrong about things. I do it sometimes because like every other human out there I often get things wrong too.
Like when I thought Bob wasn't in Mr C. I was wrong. I didn't try and hold onto that and explain away what was plainly demonstrated in front of my face.
If Twin Peaks is a mainstream TV show, then everything else on TV is mainstream and the word loses any point in being part of the language.
edit: and I do want to apologize for shitting up this discussion. I know I'm being a bit "SOMEBODY ON THE INTERNET IS WRONG" here, but it was such an out there statement that I had to challenge it.
I'd agree with you that it isn't mainstream, but your reasoning's off. Twin Peaks in 1990 was incredibly unconventional and not representative of the dominant trends of its time but was hugely mainstream and successful.
Twin Peaks's live airing ratings have been low, but I'm sure it's attracting a wider streaming audience. Showtime has been seeing record high signups for its service; I'm sure they're satisfied with that.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
So it might not be mainstream, but it is mainlystreaming....
VistraNorrez
Member
The ratings for the original Twin Peaks (and many shows from 20 years ago) are very interesting. The Pilot had 34 million viewers, and then Episode 1 dropped to 23 million. It's just crazy that the amount of viewers that dropped off between (11 million) would be enough to consider a show a strong success today.
From Ep. 1 to 2 Twin Peaks dropped 4 million more viewers to 19 million and then 3 million more to 16, from Eps. 2 to 3 where it stabilized for a while. It was back up to 19 for the Season 2 premiere but dropped 5 million down to 14 and steadily shed viewers until the Killer reveal where it spiked. After that there wasn't much of a hook, the creative team dipped, and the schedule was all messed up.
It was a fire that burned bright but burned out quickly.
From Ep. 1 to 2 Twin Peaks dropped 4 million more viewers to 19 million and then 3 million more to 16, from Eps. 2 to 3 where it stabilized for a while. It was back up to 19 for the Season 2 premiere but dropped 5 million down to 14 and steadily shed viewers until the Killer reveal where it spiked. After that there wasn't much of a hook, the creative team dipped, and the schedule was all messed up.
It was a fire that burned bright but burned out quickly.
plagiarize
Banned
Mainstream != popular though.
I'm not sure why people don't seem to get this.
And whether the first two seasons were or weren't mainstream, Twin Peaks The Return is clearly not mainstream however you want to slice it. This all started because of the claim that Naomi Watts had taken a roll in a mainstream show.
Which I still boggle at. How can anyone watch the first 8 hours of this series and make a claim that it's mainstream? The only conclusion I can draw is by not understanding what that word means... and when I pointed them towards the definition of the word, I was instead confronted with guff about magazine covers and how popular the original series was back in the early 90s.
It is still pure Lynch through and through. And his talk with the other vet in the bar just crushed me.
plagiarize
Banned
hehehe.
Yeah, that was my take like literally as the episode finished. I don't think most of that stuff is set in stone, especially not the identity of the egg creature. The Laura thing.... feels more accurate to me, although I certainly hope it's not.
Sapiens
Member
There's nothing more pointless than trying to win an argument with a dictionary definition (and on the internet too - I'm just as moronic though for demanding to be convinced of something so obvious).
It's mainstream. This isn't a Star Trak fan made show on youtube.
I love it. Richard Farnsworth gives an incredible performance. You can see the years of hurt on his face and in his voice.
This is just a beautiful little video of David directing actors on Inland Empire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiVfJYXPiJ0
Also love this clip of him discussing how he auditions his actors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13WpFEMFtZ4
Also this video of his leading ladies talking about David:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLreaAQA9kA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiVfJYXPiJ0
Also love this clip of him discussing how he auditions his actors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13WpFEMFtZ4
Also this video of his leading ladies talking about David:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLreaAQA9kA
Are we still putting any stock in the Rancho Rosa logo changing from episode to episode? Grabbed the latest 4 just to check:
As best I can tell:
Part 5: Black border, dim bulb.I got nothing. Episode is all over the place with characters and places, too. This is the episode that features the mysterious "black box", so maybe that's the connection?
Part 6: Yellow is used as a motif throughout the episode. Most walls, posters, and lampshades shown are yellow or orange, including most of the episode being lit by pretty much the ugliest plastic lamp on cable TV as Coop pieces together insurance case files.
Part 7: Red. Likely a reference to Diane, who wears red in every scene in this episode, as well as a reference to her inferred violent past with coop.
Part 8: Negative. Reference to the Woodsmen. Also perhaps the Nuke as a contact point between worlds, and upsetting natural order (black is white).
I know Lynch said these were significant - do we think they are significant outside of their respective episodes, like a pattern? Or just an interesting symbol for each episodes theme(s). Or is Lynch fucking with me again and making me see patterns where there are none, dammit.
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
As best I can tell:
Part 5: Black border, dim bulb.I got nothing. Episode is all over the place with characters and places, too. This is the episode that features the mysterious "black box", so maybe that's the connection?
Part 6: Yellow is used as a motif throughout the episode. Most walls, posters, and lampshades shown are yellow or orange, including most of the episode being lit by pretty much the ugliest plastic lamp on cable TV as Coop pieces together insurance case files.
Part 7: Red. Likely a reference to Diane, who wears red in every scene in this episode, as well as a reference to her inferred violent past with coop.
Part 8: Negative. Reference to the Woodsmen. Also perhaps the Nuke as a contact point between worlds, and upsetting natural order (black is white).
I know Lynch said these were significant - do we think they are significant outside of their respective episodes, like a pattern? Or just an interesting symbol for each episodes theme(s). Or is Lynch fucking with me again and making me see patterns where there are none, dammit.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
Between Showtine teasing something in the opening changes every episode (which are these title logos), the fact the new season's working title was Rancho Rosa, the suburb where we meet Dougie and Jade in and where Dougie's car explodes is a place called Rancho Rosa, the studio credit is fake as no such company actually exists as this is still a Lynch/Frost Production, and David Lynch himself saying these intro cards are important... i believe they're important, but not exactly sure how.
I mean, you can take the colors as meaning something each episode. Part 8 is the most obvious one to these ends to me as it's a negative version of the image which fits multiple things in the episode. I don't know if they mean anything outside of a hint to the episode, but maybe they do. Maybe they are leading to something or hiding something. I'm not sure.
The most significant yellow (gold) thing here is the kid's soul blob.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I feel like it might have got something to do with the 119 girl and her child, living right in front from where Cooper appeared. Curiously named Sycamore Street.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
James has one of my top 5 moments this season for me, so maybe he was cool all along?
VistraNorrez
Member
The California Film Commission lists it as the company name for Twin Peaks in this Tax Credit Program report from August 2015. So take that as you will.
therealminime
Member
Yeah Rancho Rosa almost certainly exists for tax credits and financial reasons. It's a pretty standard setup for filmmaking, creating a new company for each film.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
The background of the logo looks like clouds - reference to the nuke blast?
Also, the logo's circular shape could be related to the various spheres we've seen, like the BOB egg, the Saint Laura orb, and Dougie's gold nugget.
Also, the logo's circular shape could be related to the various spheres we've seen, like the BOB egg, the Saint Laura orb, and Dougie's gold nugget.
Gordon's corn on the cob picture has the same cloud background.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Things are looking awfully dubious for Gordon.
The entire show takes place inside a snow globe inside a TV show inside Gordon's dream inside Phillip Jeffries's dream inside a TV show inside the dream we live inside.
plagiarize
Banned
Talking to you is evidently pointless since you make up your own meanings for words and won't budge an inch. I'm not sure how I can communicate anything to someone who doesn't care what words mean, and who won't listen to a dictionary definition of the word mainstream when trying to defend if something is mainstream or not.
So every single tv show on tv is mainstream tv then. Well done, you've just made the word 'mainstream' completely pointless. I'm going to leave it here. You aren't interested in engaging, just in defending your original and completely false claim that Twin Peaks The Return is mainstream.
You've already made it clear that comments on the internet are apparently worthless to you. So this is the last time I'll waste effort on you on this topic.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Happy over the hump day folks. Half way there, like Jon Bon Jovi.
Well if you don't consider the awful and disastrous void the ending is gonna leave us with, forever, to be a break, then yeah, sure, it's the last break.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Why are people hating on the Dougie stuff?
I think, in terms of re-watching anyway, that the Dougie stuff and the evil coop stuff has held up the greatest.
I don't mean to besmirch the direction, but in terms of digesting TV, when I re-watched some of the more meandering scenes, like the slow zooms into an explosion etc, I just skip it to the next Dougie or evil coop scene.
It's OK as a first watch, but similarly to the scene of watching that guy sweep up, I just skipped it the second time. So dunno how it's all gonna hold up so to speak.
I think, in terms of re-watching anyway, that the Dougie stuff and the evil coop stuff has held up the greatest.
I don't mean to besmirch the direction, but in terms of digesting TV, when I re-watched some of the more meandering scenes, like the slow zooms into an explosion etc, I just skip it to the next Dougie or evil coop scene.
It's OK as a first watch, but similarly to the scene of watching that guy sweep up, I just skipped it the second time. So dunno how it's all gonna hold up so to speak.
People don't hate the Dougie stuff. Kyle does a tremendous job, and it was funny, but time is running short and the realization that Cooper might not be a big part of this final season in "person" is starting to hit people.
I have to agree 100% with this sentiment.
I recently started rewatching and I had to come to terms with something: it's not very rewatchable.
I mean, I have loved every minute of the show in first viewing, no matter how ponderous. But on a second viewing, when you know what happens, this shit drags.
That's something I wouldn't say about the original series. I can rewatch any random episode any time and be totally into it.
Cough, cough, SEASON 2, cough.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Sure I'm glad we have Dougie though. A lot of the Coop stuff I enjoyed was just him interacting with the people of Twin Peaks.
And that doesn't seem to be the emphasis of the show anymore, that kind of domestic interaction, and instead it seems to be widening the scope of the more surreal plot elements. Dougies stuff has definitely saved the show for me a whole lot.
Immortal Technique
Member
I think the big drop after the pilot was pretty normal back then. People had far less options and far less information on shows before they debuted, so they just watched the pilots. The numbers it settled on (for Season 1 anyway) was still a very good one.
And when talking about how big a hit the show was originally, it's not just about the ratings, and this applies to a lesser extent today too. For the first season, maybe Cheers or whatever had more viewers, but Twin Peaks was THE show people were talking about. It was the 'zeitgiest' show before anyone was using that word for TV.
JehutyRunner
Banned
Unrelated to the Rancho Rosa stuff, even the intro credits and theme were faded in last week's episode, like it was subdued.
People always seem to forget that the first half of Season 2 is great. It's only after Leland dies that the show starts to dive. And even then, there's some good stuff at the end of the season, too.
"Any random episode any time"
That's a bold statement considering what was featured in season 2. That's all I meant. I never said it didn't have good things.
It's still pretty watchable. Just gotta get through the James shit.
It's funny, I think it's the most rewatchable Twin Peaks has ever been. Especially those slow scenes.
Rewatching plot stuff is what gets tiresome for me. I could watch those slow, quiet, atmospheric scenes forever. Lynch talks a lot about movies allowing you to "enter another world" and this one actually feels like that. It's like an open world TV show that I can turn on just to chill in and to soak in its atmosphere. It's weird and kiiinda the best.
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