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[minor effort]

Exactly same here.

Like, I enjoyed episode 8 and I enjoyed this last episode (12?).

When it pushes things along, it pushes things along. But it doesn't always need to or want to do that.

The show just takes its time meticulously creating its "moving painting" (Lynch's phrase and goal in film making).

I think part of the difference is that S2 focus shifted for a substantial period to some very deliberate, very determined subplots that felt overbearing. Mike & SuperNadine, General Ben Horne, James leaving town, Andy and Lucy and Dick. These subplots were drawn out over several episodes, to the point that the soap opera pastiche Twin Peaks once parodied sort of became the show for a while.

I don't see all the random threads and scenes and tidbits being introduced in S3 developing into full subplots in the same manner. First of all, there's way too many to possibly resolve before the season finishes, as evidenced by that list that was made a couple pages back. But I think the purpose isn't to resolve all of them, but rather to let them paint a picture of what the tone for Twin Peaks would be after 25 years, and let the viewer fill in the gaps as they wish.

 

[Closer Two]

I found it really effective and heartbreaking seeing Audrey like that. That oddball cheerful girl with a love of shenanigans is gone now, into what's obviously a very dull unfulfilled life. A life that's only going to get worse after hearing what Richard did.

Interesting how Shelly shocked us with her lack of change and now this episode we're stunned by Audrey who comes across as a completely different person.

I saw a great post on Reddit about how the themes of this season are patience and impatience but I think "expectance" might fit it better.

 

[Yamibito]

I think part of the difference is that S2 focus shifted for a substantial period to some very deliberate, very determined subplots that felt overbearing. Mike & SuperNadine, General Ben Horne, James leaving town, Andy and Lucy and Dick. These subplots were drawn out over several episodes, to the point that the soap opera pastiche Twin Peaks once parodied sort of became the show for a while.

I don't see all the random threads and scenes and tidbits being introduced in S3 developing into full subplots in the same manner. First of all, there's way too many to possibly resolve before the season finishes, as evidenced by that list that was made a couple pages back. But I think the purpose isn't to resolve all of them, but rather to let them paint a picture of what the tone for Twin Peaks would be after 25 years, and let the viewer fill in the gaps as they wish.

I think for a lot of these scenes, like you said, is to give a bigger impression of Twin Peaks. Before the incredible episode 14, it felt as if the show always had something new to show us. New characters were getting introduced, giving us a bigger sense of what the town is about, and it was awesome. After that, it focused on the same set of characters and it got a little tiring. Would have been a lot better had they kept up that pace of introducing characters, and I feel that the third season is returning to that. The town of Twin Peaks itself feels full of mystery again, which was something that was sorely lacking post-Leland, imo.

 

[Dusk Golem]

I will say it's interesting reading through those old Twin Peaks early internet post stuff from the 90s as the original series was airing. Seeing people's theories at the time, and how people get about the show is all at once fascinating and kind of funny in retrospective, plus a bit amusing with some parallels to the current watching of the new season.

 

[HashtagLapsed]

I just watched episode 8 again and I am so happy it is a thing that exists.

Spoiler

I wonder if by episode 17 things will be as 'wrapped up' as they can be and episode 18 will be the conclusion of the frog-moth story.

 

[Dusk Golem]

So I'm reading the Twin Peaks early internet reactions from the time from here: http://www.lostinthemovies.com/2014/11/twin-peaks-on-internetin-1990-alttvtwin.html

I'm only up to the Season 1 finale, but going by some people at the time I am already able to tell reading the Season 2 reactions and the film should be quite a ride.

Here's some nuggets from people who watched the Twin Peaks Season 1 finale at the time:

Here we have a very significant difference between the way Jacoby originally heard the tape and the way the (supposedly) same tape sounds when played back later by other people who have purloined it. Is this really significant? Will it actually ever matter to the course of the plot?

OF COURSE NOT!!!!!!!!!! It's a gaffe, a kluge, a fuckup, a stupid ineptoid klutzed up mucking about by people who really don't care whether they insert inconsistencies into the plot line that prompt anyone using their brain (who might be watching and expecting that a thinking person's program is being developed here) to say "Hmmmmmm...". Save your breath. Air is a precious resource. Don't bother. This is NOT a thinking person's show. This is a soap opera. Concocted by people who think they're parodying or redefining the "boundaries" and "limits" of soap opera by inserting clever little allusions to movies they like, and by utilizing quirky characters and "new-age" detective methodologies, and by inserting people watching a soap opera within the soap opera itself (is this genuinely original?), as if to say "Look at THIS interesting plot element: the characters in THIS soap opera are themselves hooked on a TV soap opera; isn't that funny, I mean, *imagine* people totally obsessed by a silly television pro... oh, hi there, audience, how's it goin'?".

But a soap opera nonetheless, and nonethemore.

Someone claimed that the people who dealt us this mess surely wouldn't jerk around millions of people with stupid leftover cliched soap opera tricks, or with poor plotting that leaves one thinking
(...)
But in reality it was never a promise at all, it was a scam. Watching this show with the level of sophistication and interpretation and observation that the show LEADS you to think it deserves is actually detrimental to the appreciation of the program. Thinking is not a survival trait when it comes to watching Twin Peaks. It is just the opposite, it is an anti-survival trait, it leads you to be contemplating the meaning of log when a huge bear or wolf or a tractor trailer comes along and slimes you to pieces, because you should have been using your log-given senses to fend for your survival out in the wild instead of thinking about whether or not there were two Lydeckers or whether or not the stuffed toy duck sitting at the edge of the table in the scene where Maddy doesn't touch her cherry coke at the diner has any significance, or whether the very fact that Maddy doesn't touch her CHERRY C O K E is in and of itself significant. It doesn't matter. Really. Honestly. This show is best appreciated by NOT bothering to think about ANYTHING, by watching it JUST LIKE it was a common garden variety soap opera. For good reason: it *IS* a common garden variety soap opera, albeit a common garden variety soap opera with a log lady, a Zen detective, kinky sex in and out the wazoo hinted at and "brazenly" bared for all to see (at least as much as one can on TV), and a general quirkiness and atmosphere that LEADS us, the people who NEVER watch network TV and especially not those silly soap operas, to think that this is MORE than a common garden variety soap opera.

If the show is a parody, the thing being parodied is the audience, you and me, the people who look with disdain on shows like Dallas, Dynasty, and Wheel of Fortune, because WE have been shown to be no better than those who are hopelessly addicted to THOSE programs. We have been sucked in. Toyed with. Fucked with. And I, for one, have had enough.
(...)
And maybe once they realize all that, when they rebroadcast the entire series over the summer, they'll use the version of the last episode that was intended to be used if the series was not going to be renewed for the fall, the one that reveals who actually killed Laura Palmer! Yeah!!!! ... I mean, like I really give a hoot...

My opinion is that the murder mystery motivates my watching Twin Peaks. Many on the net share this opinion because the primary activity in alt.tv.twin-peaks is sifting clues and articulating "who killed Laura" theories. To fail to provide a clean resolution of the murder mystery that fits the clues to a tee would be a very callous way for Lynch to treat his detective minded audience. An arbitrary solution would mean the complete failure of Twin Peaks as a mystery. Sorry if I don`t see the "joke" in that. As you pointed out there seems to be no way for everything to fit together, but we'll see what turns out next Fall.

My opinion is that Twin Peaks was neither new nor outstanding TV. It was MTV (images and music) meets Dynasty (a sappy, melodramatic plot) with a dash of the Twilight Zone (contrived story and character twists). It was a tribute to the eighties, a decade dedicated to style over substance. The most fitting epitaph to Twin Peaks would be "Where's the beef?".

If the public and the critics do get fed up with TWIN PEAKS, as I'm beginning to suspect they shortly will, it won't be over not being told who killed Laura Palmer -- it will be out of revulsion at watching a taut, quirky thriller denegerate into schlocky mysticism.

In this and other posts, I DON'T understand why the only (or main) two options seem to be BOB as real person or BOB as visitor from another time or world. More correctly, BOB as *archetype* could account for his appearence to different individuals, *and* for both his consistencies and differences across various individuals' visions.

It is, I admit, a somewhat fine-grained distinction, but seeing BOB (and perhaps other "other-worldly" characters as well) as *psychological* constructs is more in keeping with Lynch's demonstrated style and sensibilities. It also allows these characters and forces to retain *both* their "real" and "mystic" qualities.

Geezuz - take your own advice will ya? Maybe he's f*ckin Santa Claus too huh? My God - a few dreams/visions of a figure and suddenly he's the damn tooth fairy...... there hasn't been one piece of 'serious' evidence that there are super-natural beings in this show - only dreams, hallucinations and visions - how does this add up to mystical boogie men?????

Got into some early Season 2 stuff there, can't wait to see the old internet reaction to the lull of season 2.

 

[31GhostsIV]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBIOAR32qBs

Found this on Reddit.
All of the Blue Rose scenes combined from all runs

Something i've never considered until now, and I've lost count of how many times i've seen FWWM.

Is Jeffries the Jumping Man (or possessed by him)? Just the way he's edited over Jeffries, and at the Convenience Store (where Phillip claimed to be). It would also explain why Carlton Lee Russell is on the cast list.

I just watched episode 8 again and I am so happy it is a thing that exists.

Spoiler

I wonder if by episode 17 things will be as 'wrapped up' as they can be and episode 18 will be the conclusion of the frog-moth story.

The link above raises the valid point that the FrogMoth host may have been the first blue rose case (and the person who first mentioned the blue rose) which makes a lot of sense.

 

[The Elite]

The link above raises the valid point that the FrogMoth host may have been the first blue rose case (and the person who first mentioned the blue rose) which makes a lot of sense.

This is pretty much what I have been assuming as well.

 

[BorkBork]

Man, if Audrey's revealed to still be in the coma, all would be forgiven in that scene.

 

[Dusk Golem]

Okay, so I won't post any more gems but here's some fun reactions to Twin Peaks from Season 2 after the first fourth (though before the killer is revealed) until six episodes until the season 2 finale (I think that's an appropriate cutting off point). (All come from here: http://www.lostinthemovies.com/2014/11/twin-peaks-on-internetin-1990-alttvtwin.html ):

What a disappointment! Twin Peaks is now just a Saturday night Gilligan's Island! They've taken a head-dive into total goofiness. A drama that was close to plausible but just kinky enough to gather a cult following is now casting that all aside in favor of a Laugh-In for the 90's. Blecch!

My theory used to be that Laura Palmer's incestuous father killed her. Now that we know Bob did it, I still think her father did it and Bob is an image representing him. How about that for holding on to your convictions. Pretty desperate, huh?

This is my greatest fear...what happens when WKLP is solved? I just read TV Guide's Cheers n Jeers and they are pushing for a solving. Twin Peaks will die if we find a killer for Laura Palmer. Just no way for Agent Cooper to stick around.

Wake up! Mr. Tojimura IS Catherine Martell in disguise.

Go back to sleep. He isn't her.

OK - I have not missed a single episode of TP. I love it as much as the next person. Of course sometimes I am rater tired when I watch it and my reception is not very good. BUT - every week I read these sort of bookkeeping entries on the net, and am I impressed. HOW DO YOU GUYS DO IT???????????

Tell me! Tell me! How many times are people watching TP? Do you take notes on every subject as you are watching?? Or, when a question comes up do you drag out each of the episodes, grab a yellow pad, some popcorn and start watching. Do you have a photographic memory. Do you have a social life? A photographic memory? Do you enjoy making the rest of us feel stupid?

Does anyone else share my frustartion?

I feel sorry for all the people who got "fed up" and quit. This episode brought back all the emotions of the pilot, IMHO.

OK, first let me say I love twin peaks. So no hate mail please?

I really think its past time for them to get rid of the BOB plotline. I'm past tired of young women on being brutally murdered on the show. the 11/10 episode where Maddy is almost certainly killed had by far the most disturbing scene I've ever seen on TV. I havn't even been mildly freaked by anything else that has went on before. But watching Leland/BOB do his thing on Maddy was just a bit to much.

There seem to be plenty of other plots going, so why do they keep dragging this out?

I'll start by saying that I'm not going to absolutely defend the Ms. article; personally, I found that some of it went too far. But I am somewhat distressed that there are people who seem to be contending that there is no sexism at all on Twin Peaks. Our entire society is sexist; why should Twin Peaks be any different? I am not advocating, and shall not advocate, that Lynch/Frost change their vision simply to please me; art is art, and they are entitled to create their own vision and put it out in the world. I find the vision of Twin Peaks to be a powerful and thought-provoking one. I criticize because for me the essence of truly effective horror (and I think TP can be classified as horror - or is this another debate? ;-)) is an atmosphere that has enough identifiable with the world that I live in to affect my perceptions of my own existence. For me, the stereotypical gender roles presented on the show dull some of its effectiveness.

I WAS RIGHT (was Re: The earliest impressions of 12/1, Diane.

Glad to. I noticed that "Robertson" could be interpreted as "son of Bob" way back when Leland first mentioned "Robertson". I posted it here. Of course, I also thought that the dwarf was at One-Eyed Jacks, so my track record is poor. But this time, I was right on the money.

Well, gee, J. Eric is upset because Twin Peaks turns out to be a supernatural thriller, rather than a show about a particular social problem. Sounds like tunnel vision to me... Once someone gets the idea that a thing is should be about his/her pet problem, everything gets viewed like from that view.

Next thing you know, we'll get posting that ST:TNG is crap becuase it hasn't covered AIDS, The Simpsons are a waste because they don't have any minority children in the family, and Finnegans Wake is a Bad Thing because it attacks our Mother Tongue. Don't worry, there's probably a nice alternate universe out there somewhere where TP follows your dictates, rather than those of Lynch/Frost.

I was disappointed too. I know a number of people who believe in demons. And once people get that idea, all other explanations for bad behavior are discarded. People stop thinking. They stop using their imaginations and they stop facing facts about themselves and others.

To come so close to confronting family abuse and to opt for a supernatural explanation, that's a cop out to me.

About a month ago, I read an article in the Sunday paper which dealt with a book that had been recently written. The book contained criticism of modern directors. The article was released by the Gannett news service and was in the living section of the paper (if your local rag subscribes to Gannett then you may have seen it or may be able to find it - I'm afraid I didn't save it and I cannot remember the title or author).

Anyway, the article went through a number of directors and Lynch was one of them. At the time, I knew there were a number of things about TP's that I didn't like but I thought that they were distinct and individual problems and hadn't really seen a connection, until I saw this criticism. What was said is that Lynch's work lacks and real plot development. It pointed out that Lynch's work is made up of separate scenes and dialogue that do nothing to further the plot and tend to become more and more bizarre - and then, in the final 5-10 minutes, the entire plot unfolds. I realized that this was true (in my opinion) of Blue Velvet and I began to think about TPs. It seems to me that this same problem runs through TPs as well. We see 30-40 minute 'chunks' of scenes that do very little plot development (if any at all) and then we see 5-10 minute segments (although not always at the end of any particular episode, but instead spread through the whole series), where the actual story is explained and developed and advanced.

The idea that the images become more and more bizarre also seems to be valid. I realize that some would claim this to be "atmosphere" but to what end? and how much "atmosphere development" does the show need? The scene with naval personnel bouncing rubber balls in the GN while a spastic one-armed man wiggles in his chair would seem an example of this in my opinion - what purpose did those people serve? Did it relate in anyway to the plot? How was it used as anything other than an attempt at a bizarre image? Now some might claim that they think that this is a very good thing (I enjoy the images, but only up to a point), however I think that it is a case of form over content - a show or a movie without a solid plot is still a show with little plot no matter how nicely packaged it is.

This lack of adequate plot development seems to show up in the episodes where the viewer is hit over the head with a barage of little facts all at once (the Leland did it episode and the last episode (why Leland did it) are good examples of this). It is as if they are saying "well, we really have to wrap this thing up - now what haven't we dealt with yet? We'll put all that stuff in the last 10 minutes and be done with it".

That is not to say that the show is without any merit. The unique and interesting images are often "worth the price of admission" so to speak, but the show could be better if it was more careful with its plot and less focussed on simply being bizarre. IMHO of course.....

You know Gary, I agree partially with some of your points about Lynch. I have felt for a long time that his movies were style over substance, but I always get the impression while watching them that this is a man that is capable of directing a masterpiece. I think he needs to be coupled with a plot writer that understands his directing style.

I think that Lynch is still learning his trade and I hope that he matures so that his work can achieve his potential. In Lynch's movies, I get the feeling he is just being violent and strange for the sake of violence and strangeness, but I also feel that he has a real talent with images and mood and that he really has his finger on many of the dark sides of our culture and that some day he may create a truly brilliant piece of film.

Also, I am surprised at the general positive response that this episode has received on the net so far. I thought that it was one of the weakest shows yet. The dialogue was pretty sad (the Donna whining was pathetic and Truman's "cooper is a saint" speech went a bit far for my tastes) and aside from the "holiday-like" spread at the funeral, the images didn't impress me as much. Frankly, I expected to see a number of "geez - this show is really going downhill fast" postings after this one - maybe they'll come later.......

Right now TP is in the absolute slough pond of dumb-TV disease. It's just about as bad as half a dozen other soapy series out there. If it stays like this it deserves to go away.

I have struggled for a mere moment to attempt to put into words my feelings about this newest of episodes of Twin Peaks. It was like no other episode I've seen yet, in a disappointing way. Perhaps it was the total lack of spirtuality on Bob's part, and the total lack of interesting characterization on Cooper's, Audrey's or any other main character's part.

However, the exceedingly annoying set-ups (Packard, drugs, the introduction of Denise, who must be reasonably important to garner such interest) have loomed weave upon woof (ooh, what impressive word-play!) of impossible situations-- for Lynch/Frost/Peyton to resolve these issues will require _totally_ amazing writing and directing, of which I believe not even those three are capable. Will there be a human scum<->spirit scum tie in? What does Bob have to do with all this, eh?

The more I watch Twin Peaks, the more I think that they really don't know what they're doing. Mark Frost's scripts have been the only really coherent ones. Every time Harley Peyton writes a script, the intellectual level of the show drops another notch.

Hogwash!

Twin Peaks has reached a higher plain of excellence after the LP storyline. Instead of having a crowd of hip-sters out to catch the latest fad, we have moved to focused crowd of people who enjoy fine literature, philosophy, and intellect as well as visual, symbolic, and mythic reflection. I'm glad the chaff is outa here. Now we can return to excellence with out the continual wining of tv critics for instant gratification. Those with a 5 minute attention span, please watch Carol and Company. Those who wish to see fine television, we now have a top-notch show.

There was something really *stupid* about this week's episode. There were times when I felt that it was all a bad dream. The only good thing about it was that they killed off some unpromising sub plots like the "Nicky is the Devil" storyline.

After defending Lynch for months against charges of sexism, I found myself actually so grossed out by the portrayal of women in this episode that I acually actually changed channels (knowing that the episode would be shown again 2 hours later on another station, mind you) because I suddenly just didn't think it was all worth it.
(...)
Twin Peaks is always surreal but this episode was like a bad dream. And with the parade of vamps, mysogynist too.

Hope things improve.

Ah well, they have six more episodes to wrap things up. I have an idea which allows them to get some revenge. Introduce a sub-plot where "Invitation to Love" is cancelled and have Lucy lead a movement to get it back on the air. After all, it could even be a locally produced syndicated show. Then you could have even more parallel characters representing BOB Iger and crew. Oh well, it'd be a fitting end at least...

"Is it future, or is it past?"

There's a lot more but it's very interesting to see people's thoughts at the time and some kind of amusing parallels. It's very different but also amusing how despite being different how similar some of the discussion ends up being.

 

[PolishQ]

It's becoming clear that possibly the biggest theme of season 3 is "waiting". We're repeatedly seeing characters have their patience tested while the show simultaneously tests our own.

- Waiting for something to appear in the glass box
- Cooper waiting for 25 years
- Truman waiting for Wally Brando to finish his endless monologue
- Jacoby painting the shovels
- Jade and Janey-E constantly yelling at Cooper to get moving
- The casino staff waiting for Cooper's winning streak to end
- Philip Gerard urging Cooper to wake up
- The anticipation of Cooper drinking coffee for the first time
- Cooper's coworkers getting angry when he's blocking the elevator door
- Andy waiting for Billy(?) to show up
- The sweeping scene
- The Mitchums waiting for Candie to get Anthony
- Sylvia waiting for Richard to leave
- Albert waiting for the French woman to leave
- Audrey waiting for the phone conversation to end
- and so on!

There's too much for this all to be unrelated. Lynch and Frost must have used the 25 year wait as their creative inspiration for the season - a season about waiting for things to happen, waiting to find things out, all the while watching your life go by... it's just that we have to wait until the ending to find out "the point", or what exactly Frost and Lynch want to say about all this.

I wonder too if the glass box storyline will serve as a microcosm of the greater season. A viewer watches a box, waiting for something to appear. At one point he leaves the room, missing something crucial while he's gone. When he returns, a monster kills him.

Could this be foreshadowing to the fact that the ending of season three will initially dash our hopes and "kill" our expectations, until we realize we missed something big along the way?

 

[The Elite]

Well, gee, J. Eric is upset because Twin Peaks turns out to be a supernatural thriller, rather than a show about a particular social problem. Sounds like tunnel vision to me... Once someone gets the idea that a thing is should be about his/her pet problem, everything gets viewed like from that view.

Next thing you know, we'll get posting that ST:TNG is crap becuase it hasn't covered AIDS, The Simpsons are a waste because they don't have any minority children in the family, and Finnegans Wake is a Bad Thing because it attacks our Mother Tongue. Don't worry, there's probably a nice alternate universe out there somewhere where TP follows your dictates, rather than those of Lynch/Frost.

Hogwash!

Twin Peaks has reached a higher plain of excellence after the LP storyline. Instead of having a crowd of hip-sters out to catch the latest fad, we have moved to focused crowd of people who enjoy fine literature, philosophy, and intellect as well as visual, symbolic, and mythic reflection. I'm glad the chaff is outa here. Now we can return to excellence with out the continual wining of tv critics for instant gratification. Those with a 5 minute attention span, please watch Carol and Company. Those who wish to see fine television, we now have a top-notch show.

This is basically 1990 GAF.

 

[Airola]

Basically, but missing one important piece. Arguably the four most important episodes of Twin Peaks are the Pilot (episode 0), Episode 2, Episode 14, & Episode 29.

I would also Episode 8 to that list (season 2 opener) but I think it's not as important as those four you mentioned.

I think it was the first episode to clearly say the metaphysical things are actually supposed to be in this series for more than just one episode and it was the first episode that really brought in the horror aspects of the series.

 

[Airola]

Y'all tripping throwing the first half under the bus because of the last 20 minutes.

I think this shows how utterly important it is to be able to write scenes that grab the viewers and don't let go and to be able to put them in their right places in episodes.

Even just having a weak last scene is enough to leave some people with sour taste in mouth but to have a streak of 3 weak scenes that also each are overlong, it can really set peoples minds into thinking the full episode wasn't worthwhile.


In my opinion the first half of this episode was perhaps the best we have seen yet in this season. But the last half or so was so weak that it leaves this weird negative aura to the whole thing that I can't say this episode was good even if it had some of the best things we have yet seen.

 

[Levito]

I'm kind of surprised seeing abbreviations like "IMHO" in a early 90's Usenet groups.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Except that was never the point of Laura's murder, that mystery held the whole show together and once it was revealed the whole thing fell apart. The whole conceit of the original show was taken away.

Which is why I brought it up, folks demand answers to mysteries but when they did with the original Twin Peaks it lead to it's downfall. It didn't matter who killed Laura Palmer, it was only really supposed to be what introduced the audience to the world and characters. Twin Peaks fans of any fanbase should know better than to just demand answers.

The point I'm making is this:

By demanding the mystery be solved, we got 18 episodes with interesting twists and turns leading to an incredible reveal for the killer and a solid resolution for the main plot.

If Lynch had his way, we would have gotten 30+ episodes that would have eventually worn out the premise, the killer would have never been revealed and the main plot would have gone unresolved.

I say the first option is much better, because no matter how bad the subsequent episodes/seasons are, the first 18 are still an excellent and complete arc. It's really ironic in light of the new season, actually, that the original run of TP proved you can tell a stellar story in 18 episodes.

 

[Airola]

I hope people have come to grips with Cooper not coming back until the end of Episode 18. After all, it was billed as "the odyssey of Cooper's return to TP" (hatchet job paraphrasing). That's what we were sold up front, and not "the odyssey of Cooper returning in episode 4 and solving another case". I firmly believe now that Dougie is here to stay til the (near) end, and I'm quite fine with that. Even as Dougie, Cooper is making people's lives better and bringing optimism into the world.

It would be interesting to see how the anticipation for Cooper's return has changed in this thread since episode 3.

I think people then thought the Dougie phase wouldn't last long and have anticipated him to return "a couple episodes from now" after each episode. I wonder where the first signs of acceptances of him probably never returning before the last couple of episodes appeared.

 

[rackham]

Did anyone see that IGN article about how it's ok that Twin Peaks won't answer all of our questions? I really don't think Lynch and Frost can pull off a satisfying ending.

We still have like 8 hours to go but with these guys that's not saying much. There's just so much weird shit. Is Jacoby still important? Is there a reason we keep seeing his shit shovels or is that just the writers throwing shit at us metaphorically? Was there a point to the sick kid and his crazy mother in the car? Are we going to find out what the shadow murderers are? How about the glass box monster? Audrey, her husband and Billy- relevant or just showing us where Audrey is?

 

[31GhostsIV]

"Is it future, or is it past?"

Wow Bob Wow. Lynch and Frost have managed to retool Twin Peaks yet garner similar polarising responses, to the first time around which in itself is very impressive.

 

[Rien]

This Jumping Man from FWWM has the same sort of nose as the moth in episode 8. Anybody think they might have something to do with each other?

 

[big ander]

They totally can pull off a satisfying ending. I don't think that ending will involve answering every question people have about Jeffries and how cool James is and Dr. Amp and Sonny Jim's baseball career and the frogmoth and Chantal and Hutch's Wendy's order and the box and Red's drug ring and Harry's illness and Andy and Lucy's chair and an in-depth history of Dougie and Mr. C while Cooper was in the Lodge. Answers aren't a prerequisite to satisfaction. And as others have noted Lynch's movies often have a narrative structure where much of the actual plot comes towards the end, preceded by a more associative series of scenes.

As trying as 12 was and as reluctant as I am to watch it again, I remain confident this will come together in the end. Not how anybody expects it to, but nonetheless. Maybe I'm too faithful.

 

[The Elite]

This Jumping Man from FWWM has the same sort of nose as the moth in episode 8. Anybody think they might have something to do with each other?

It has been speculated. I'm not sure though.

 

[soundtest]

i dont know if we'll get or want answers but you know we'll get regular coop for like maybe 5 minutes at the very end of the season and be happy we even get that much

 

[The Elite]

i dont know if we'll get or want answers but you know we'll get regular coop for like maybe 5 minutes at the very end of the season and be happy we even get that much

 

[Dusk Golem]

Did anyone see that IGN article about how it's ok that Twin Peaks won't answer all of our questions? I really don't think Lynch and Frost can pull off a satisfying ending.

We still have like 8 hours to go but with these guys that's not saying much. There's just so much weird shit. Is Jacoby still important? Is there a reason we keep seeing his shit shovels or is that just the writers throwing shit at us metaphorically? Was there a point to the sick kid and his crazy mother in the car? Are we going to find out what the shadow murderers are? How about the glass box monster? Audrey, her husband and Billy- relevant or just showing us where Audrey is?

I mean, think about what satisfying ending means I guess.

I would argue that both Season 2 of Twin Peaks and Fire Walk With Me have satisfying endings despite not answering everything.

 

[jon_i634]

Did anyone see that IGN article about how it's ok that Twin Peaks won't answer all of our questions? I really don't think Lynch and Frost can pull off a satisfying ending.

We still have like 8 hours to go but with these guys that's not saying much. There's just so much weird shit. Is Jacoby still important? Is there a reason we keep seeing his shit shovels or is that just the writers throwing shit at us metaphorically? Was there a point to the sick kid and his crazy mother in the car? Are we going to find out what the shadow murderers are? How about the glass box monster? Audrey, her husband and Billy- relevant or just showing us where Audrey is?

Link to the article in case anyone wants to read it.

Honestly, I agree with the article. I don't think Lynch and Frost are interested in wrapping up every loose end when a lot of the scenes in the show, like the vomiting kid, are not there to be answered. They are there to be creepy, to establish and elaborate on a tone that the creators are going for, and it works incredibly well. Lynch has done this his whole career. For example (spoilers for Blue Velvet),

Spoiler

at the end of the movie, there is a guy standing there with blood pouring out of his head. He should be on the ground dead, but he's not, he's just standing there.

Lynch doesn't give an explanation. It's there to establish tone and make the viewer uneasy. It's just how he works. Whether or not it works is up to the viewer; for me, it works wonders.

I'm not expecting a traditional ending, especially with how the season is going. I'm expecting more of a thematic ending, rather than a narrative ending, if that makes sense.

Spoiler

It's also okay to be disappointed! It's not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[friskykillface]

1 minute of agent Cooper saying
"I've got a story to tell you"
End


Eh, I got what I wanted , Cooper leaving the lodge and shit that blew my mind
I'm satisfied

 

[The Elite]

1 minute of agent Cooper saying

"I've got a story to tell you"

End

It should end with "How's Annie?"

 

[31GhostsIV]

Anyway, I haven't read this group in ages. But a few months back, I posted my speculation about a follow-up (rather than FWWM, a prequel) to the last episode. Here, more or less, is what I said:

It's 2014, and David Lynch happens to be at loose ends, so he decides to follow up on the legendary cult TV show he did 2 1/2 decades ago. Our story opens in contemporary (2014) Twin Peaks. Many of the characters of the old show are still around, albeit older; many new and strange cast members are also present. Donna, Bobby, Leo, Shelly, James, etc. all have teenage kids now. What about Coop? There are several possibilities: he's been in an asylum for 25 years, having apparently gone mad shortly after the 1989 Miss Twin Peaks pageant; he's continued to serve as an FBI agent, but is sometimes possessed by Bob, and commits horrible crimes that he never remembers afterwards; or he's simply dis- appeared--maybe into the Waiting Room, one of the Lodges, or on an extended sojourn to Tibet.

Things have apparently settled down in TP, but now some strange forces again stir in the woods. The residents of the Ghostwood subdivision are reporting various bizarre incidents to the new police chief (let's see, who should it be...James? or to really go against expectations, as Lynch always does, Bobby?), who sends his deputy Harry Dale Moran (Lucy & Andy's kid) out to investigate. It seems that people are claiming to have been visited by the long-dead Laura Palmer. Soon Coop arrives on the scene...

I wonder if this Usenet guy is watching today...

 

[SomTervo]

I think part of the difference is that S2 focus shifted for a substantial period to some very deliberate, very determined subplots that felt overbearing. Mike & SuperNadine, General Ben Horne, James leaving town, Andy and Lucy and Dick. These subplots were drawn out over several episodes, to the point that the soap opera pastiche Twin Peaks once parodied sort of became the show for a while.

I don't see all the random threads and scenes and tidbits being introduced in S3 developing into full subplots in the same manner. First of all, there's way too many to possibly resolve before the season finishes, as evidenced by that list that was made a couple pages back. But I think the purpose isn't to resolve all of them, but rather to let them paint a picture of what the tone for Twin Peaks would be after 25 years, and let the viewer fill in the gaps as they wish.

In a way that's better, though?

If you're going to have random vignettes/subplots, leave them at that. Don't try to stretch them past their boots. These little discussions/random character moments should be paintings of the colour of the town, not any attempt at larger soap-opera dramas like the James leaving, Andy/Dick/Lucy, etc.

I've seen a lot of Lynch. Some of it's good, some bad -- it's always uneven, and sure, there's some kind of strange value in Lynch's kind of uneven, more experimental presentations. I had hoped that S3 of TP would show a sort of maturing of him as a storyteller. That the floor could be moved up a bit, and that we'd never have moments where we straight fell through it. The first episodes really, really *nailed* a lot of that promise. I figured, early on, it'd likely be a treasure trove of pure Lynch. Not so much anymore.

They just sort of went a step too far with being meandering and dull. They dared me to watch paint dry, and I (finally) declined. I don't doubt at all that there are people who wouldn't consider themselves a Lynch nut and are enjoying their time with this show, but I do think they'd have to be a little nutty to do so Most of the redeeming quality of the show, for me, have been things that are distinctly Lynch; it's just a lot of the bad comes from that same source. So if you're not a Lynch nut and love what you're seeing, that's surprising, but admittedly not impossible.

And anyway, it's just a prediction I have that people will end up feeling like S3 was a failure to launch. Maybe I'll be completely wrong and it will be considered not only the best season of TP, but the best thing Lynch has done period.

It'll still end up being 10000x better than HBO's Confederate.

I'm still enjoying the show but part of me is hoping for an insane payoff where the last 2-3 episodes are completely god-tier amazing. Pretty sure that won't happen and it'll be another weird, idiosyncratic Lynch thing.

I wonder if this Usenet guy is watching today...

That's amazing!

 

[Linkin112]

It should end with "How's Annie?"

I actually kinda like that 25 years later, the show returns and we probably still won't get an answer to that question lol

EDIT: It'll probably be in the Final Dossier

 

[SomTervo]

Okay, so I won't post any more gems but here's some fun reactions to Twin Peaks from Season 2 after the first fourth (though before the killer is revealed) until six episodes until the season 2 finale (I think that's an appropriate cutting off point). (All come from here: http://www.lostinthemovies.com/2014/11/twin-peaks-on-internetin-1990-alttvtwin.html ):

"Is it future, or is it past?"

There's a lot more but it's very interesting to see people's thoughts at the time and some kind of amusing parallels. It's very different but also amusing how despite being different how similar some of the discussion ends up being.

To begin with I was pissed off with your massive wall of text there but I quickly...

 

[gun_haver]

2/3rds in my opinion is basically I'm glad they did this kind of continuation, but a lot of the specfic elements are things that either don't do much for me or I just wish they had focused on something else.

I think you could probably edit this into a really solid 10 hours, by the time it is done. I'd conventionalise it somewhat - like for example, I'd condense the Buckhorn plot into episodes that run sequentially, 2 or 3 episodes where big chunks take place with that. Same with Richard - I'd introduce him early, but have him run over the boy at the point the story is actually going to follow him, rather than have him show up and do that, and then have nothing happen on it for about 4 episodes.

The vast scope of the show is diluting the stories, which are actually there, down to the point where it seems like they aren't really there, because there is a lot of either nothing happening (or space, if you want to call it that, ie the bar sweeping scene) or because characters are introduced and then not seen again for several episodes, or because there are a lot of almost isolated scenes, like the one with Audrey this week, or the random girls talking in the bar.

I know some people wouldn't agree with even mentally re-editing the series like that, but it's some I tend to do with everything, even music albums. I rearrange songs, get rid of some I don't like, put in b-sides. With Twin Peaks S3 it'd be something like that, I'd flat out remove some elements and rearrange others to create a stronger narrative throughline for them.

 

[uncle_koploski]

2/3rds in my opinion is basically I'm glad they did this kind of continuation, but a lot of the specfic elements are things that either don't do much for me or I just wish they had focused on something else.

I think you could probably edit this into a really solid 10 hours, by the time it is done. I'd conventionalise it somewhat - like for example, I'd condense the Buckhorn plot into episodes that run sequentially, 2 or 3 episodes where big chunks take place with that. Same with Richard - I'd introduce him early, but have him run over the boy at the point the story is actually going to follow him, rather than have him show up and do that, and then have nothing happen on it for about 4 episodes.

The vast scope of the show is diluting the stories, which are actually there, down to the point where it seems like they aren't really there, because there is a lot of either nothing happening (or space, if you want to call it that, ie the bar sweeping scene) or because characters are introduced and then not seen again for several episodes, or because there are a lot of almost isolated scenes, like the one with Audrey this week, or the random girls talking in the bar.

I know some people wouldn't agree with even mentally re-editing the series like that, but it's some I tend to do with everything, even music albums. I rearrange songs, get rid of some I don't like, put in b-sides. With Twin Peaks S3 it'd be something like that, I'd flat out remove some elements and rearrange others to create a stronger narrative throughline for them.

this is sacrilegious as far as I'm concerned.

 

[gun_haver]

this is sacrilegious as far as I'm concerned.

That's fine, I'm not gonna make a big deal about you not wanting to change anything so don't make a big deal about me having an opinion on what would make it better.

 

[Flipyap]

This Jumping Man from FWWM has the same sort of nose as the moth in episode 8. Anybody think they might have something to do with each other?

Nope. That little cutie has a beak.

 

[TessRoye]

Someone a few posts back mentioned Invitation to Love, the in-universe soap opera that characters watched during the original run of Twin Peaks.

Now I feel like an idiot to suddenly realize that the pre-end credits sequences we get at the roadhouse are this seasons Invitation to Love, that actually take place in the town to demonstrate that soap opera-ish drama is still ongoing in Twin Peaks -- like we just switched the television over to some random episode.

And of course to show that Twin Peaks seedy underbelly of S1+2 has basically taken over the entire town.

 

[JoJoShabadoo]

Someone a few posts back mentioned Invitation to Love, the in-universe soap opera that characters watched during the original run of Twin Peaks.

Now I feel like an idiot to suddenly realize that the pre-end credits sequences we get at the roadhouse are this seasons Invitation to Love, that actually take place in the town to demonstrate that soap opera-ish drama is still ongoing in Twin Peaks -- like we just switched the television over to some random episode.

And of course to show that Twin Peaks seedy underbelly of S1+2 has basically taken over the entire town.

I actually thought that too with the latest episode. Problem is, it's so far-removed from the plot/characters we know that it's just frustrating. Not to mention the musical performances.

 

[Slaythe]

Nope. That little cutie has a beak.

I thought those were antennas.

 

[Rien]

Nope. That little cutie has a beak.

Well.. it is actually pretty cute indeed

 

[Levito]

That creature is like a combination of a frog and moth.


In Abrahamic religions frogs and moths are signs of the apocalypse, no? hmmm

 

[traveler]

Random rewatch theory/question number 32

In episode 10, Tammy shows Gordon and Albert a picture of Dopple Coop in the Box in NY sitting opposite 1 or 2 (there's a glimpse of hair) unknown characters. The man that's visible strongly resembles Audrey's husband, but is obviously considerably taller than him. Not sure if there's any actual connection there or not.

 

[Zombie James]

Here's how the third season of Twin Peaks is going to end.

Evil Coop and Dougie are both at Twin Peaks. Evil Coop caught wind that Albert and Gordon are on his tail and tracks them down to the Double-R where they're enjoying a cup of coffee.

Just them, Dougie's driver pulls up to the Double-R. Dougie, in his haste to get a coffee, accidentally kills Evil Coop while getting out of the still moving car. Albert and Gordon run out and see the lifeless body of Evil Cooper with Dougie just standing there with a blank expression on his face.

Gordon: "Coop? Is that you?"

Everyone laughs.

Credits.

 

[Kelsdesu]

Lets all just make a pledge that we will NOT be upset when we get zero closure and nothing resolved.

 

[Fenderputty]

About the only part of the most recent episode I found tiresome was the Jacoby skit. They're practically recycling footage of him and Nadine in those.

Same. I find the Jacoby skits to be super redundant. I also found a the 5 second Dougie seen with virtually zero signs of coop to be annoying. It's seriously growing old for me at this point.

I found the french lady scene to be rather funny while Albert waited around for that drawn out dramatic exit. I wondered if Albert was thinking the same thing I was. I also enjoyed Aubrey. It was contextless, but the interaction between her and her sham husband was pretty enjoyable and shed some light on what's become of her to some extent. I definitely found both scenes to be more enjoyable than his episodic musical displays.

I would say I'm shocked to read opinions in this thread, but I'm not.

 

[Ashby]

I wonder if this Usenet guy is watching today...

Usenet guy is watching and thinking to himself, "My idea was way better"

 

[Blader]

I'm imagining the reactions of everyone when Lynch and Frost do the Dr. Amp scene for the fifth time, except halfway through a woodsman walks in, crushes Jacoby's head, and Nadine freaks out at her screen after watching the whole thing.

 

[stuminus3]

Lets all just make a pledge that we will NOT be upset when we get zero closure and nothing resolved.

Make peace with the fact that no matter what happens there will be outrage. Lynch pleases some of the people half of the time. There is no other way.

I'm good no matter what... I can remember watching the Season 2 finale like it was yesterday and that had the cliffhanger to end all cliffhangers. I can live with whatever S3 throws at me. It's a joy to me that it exists at all.

 

[thenexus6]

For God sake.. I avoid all spoilers then I click play on now tv to watch the episode and what do I get? A massive splash screen of Audrey while the episode loads..nice work guys!

 

[Airola]

I'm imagining the reactions of everyone when Lynch and Frost do the Dr. Amp scene for the fifth time, except halfway through a woodsman walks in, crushes Jacoby's head, and Nadine freaks out at her screen after watching the whole thing.

Would be better if that happened but Nadine would still react the same, nod her head, smile.