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[Guileless]

So ErasureAcer, the medieval religious fascists who want to kill me because I was born in teh United States are right? Honestly, if I thought that I deserved to die because of the country I lived in, I would move. How do you wake up every morning, carrying the terrible burden of thinking that you deserve to die? How do you watch a sitcom or eat an ice cream cone knowing you deserve to die? How do you focus enough to pull off Street Fighter combos, when in your heart you wish that a religious fascist would blow you up with your controller in your hand?

Why not move to Sudan, Cuba, North Korea, or Iran? These are the countries the US has absolutely nothing to do with. As it is, I'm not taking you very seriously. I think you're a bunch of Internet talk.

 

[SteveMeister]

I don't know much about US politics, so I'm a bit curious. Who are those electors you speak of? Members of the party?

Here's a good web page explaining how the electoral college works.

 

[Loki]

This is so typical. ErasureAcer stood up and said his bit. Agree or disagree what he did is right. Maybe more of you should do the same. But instead people cry about it and start with the how dare you crap. Ban him? Why should he be banned, for speaking his mind for doing the right thing. Or simply because you dont like what he says and would like to see him censored. So many of you act like "Americans" as the world views you. He is the one that is acting the way you should.

Bullshit.

Yeah, he stood up and flat out said that my family and I deserve to be murdered, seeing as how we're "pigs" and all. Cry me a fucking river, darscot. If you can't see what's wrong about his statements, then there's no use talking to you.


And frankly, I don't care whether he is banned or not. I was merely highlighting the inconsistency and hypocrisy that floats around here sometimes when things get heated. I said that if somebody waltzed in here and said that "all towel-heads deserve to die a nuclear death", that such a person would be banned fairly quickly; people would be calling for such a one's head. I said that "he should be banned" based on the accepted norms of conduct on this board, which, ideally, should hold in all directions. I've seen dozens of people banned for much less-- just because his views happen to be in lockstep with your own doesn't give him a free pass imo.


And, as luck would have it, look what we have here to illustrate the hypocrisy I alluded to:

I live with no fear. I am not afraid of a bunch of rag headed fucks.

You shouldn't be either.

To which darscot-- crusader for the free expression of ideas-- replies:

Now that deserves a ban. Not only is it stupid but it has racial tones that are just not necasary.

Nice. So that deserves a ban, whereas calling all Americans "pigs" who deserve whatever tragic fate may befall them, as seen here from ErasureAcer:

There are no such thing as "innoncent americans" when Americans are represented by piece of shit governments over the years who provoke the world to attack them.

Pigs we get what pigs deserve.

...somehow not only does not merit a ban, but is actually laudable in its forthrightness and candor, and should be an example of non-sheepdom for all and sundry, as professed by darscot here:

This is so typical. ErasureAcer stood up and said his bit. Agree or disagree what he did is right. Maybe more of you should do the same. But instead people cry about it and start with the how dare you crap. Ban him? Why should he be banned, for speaking his mind for doing the right thing. Or simply because you dont like what he says and would like to see him censored. So many of you act like "Americans" as the world views you. He is the one that is acting the way you should.

...and here:

But it makes no sense how dare he what. Speak his mind, say somethign you disagree with, not act like a sheep? What exactly did he dare to do.

(Emphasis mine)

Sure. Whatever you say, darscot.


So somehow thinly veiled "racism" (as evidenced by the "rag-head" remark) is worse than "mere" dehumanization (Erasure's "pig" comment) and the stated belief that all Americans deserve to be murdered where they stand. How exactly does that work? Mere racism is worse than all that? No. If you believe so, go ahead and try to justify it philosophically-- I'm all ears. Enlighten me as to why racism and stereotyping are worse than dehumanization and the tacit acceptance of murder. At least when you stereotype (with the rag-head example), you're still somewhat acknowledging others' intrinsic humanity; when you liken all Americans to "pigs" who deserve to be slaughtered merely for existing, you attempt to strip them of their fundamental qualities and rights as human beings through degradation. But whatever...


Try to grow a brain, darscot, mmkay? Your inconsistency is glaring.

 

[Mau_Mau]

Apparently many of you missed the "zing" at the very end of my post. This clever word is most often used as a device denoting comedic irony. You may now resume your political pissing matches.

 

[Chesapeake Silt]

You may now resume your political pissing matches.

Zing!

 

[darscot]

First I thought the pig comment was more of a live by the sword die by the sword type of thing. Not a racial slur. I may have been wrong on this as you have pointed out. Second I didnt say I agreed with what he said in any way just that he should be able to say it. I think some of his arguments were just as valid as everyone elses.

The sheep comment was in reference to to what apears as the latest trend in the US. Do not dare say anything that may in any way be taken as against the US. Notice I said appears I didnt not say is. He ripped the shortcoming he feels are present in his own country and for that I say good on yah.

 

[Diablos]

Yeah, I love how all of this shit is made available to the public.

Quite frankly I'm getting tired of reading these terror warnings. I realize you want to keep the country safe, but this is like the boy who cried wolf.

$10 says this is just more bullshit "we're keepin' our nation STRONG and huntin' 'dem terreriss" from the Bush administration to brainwash the public once again.

 

[darscot]

In rereading you rant I find it amazing how the interpretaion of the single pig line completely set you off. Sometimes you need to try and see the complete picture of what someone is trying to say.

 

[Che]

ErasureAcer some opinions are extreme but what you're saying is stupid. Every American deserves to die? Even the ones who fought or got arrested for demonstrating against war? But I can agree with one point. Everyone who is ignorant greedy or arrogant enough to ally support or help the war mongers who have taken over USA deserves to die. Making money by killing innocent women men and children, is the most disgusting thing the human race has ever done, and anyone who agrees with it or even tolerates it doesn't deserve to live.

And seriously I wouldn't give a rat's ass if all these rednecks who still have the audacity to support this rotten goverment died instantaneously, like they don't give a **** that innocent people got murdered, so that the weapons' dealers and oil companies get richer, just cause these people weren't "americans" or were muslims. WE ARE ALL HUMANS YOU RACIST BASTARDS. You should cry for those Iraqi souls like you cried for the 9/11 victims.

PS. Oh and Mustang do you really expect us to believe you that you have muslim friends? *shakes head*

 

[dark10x]

Damn, some people here have REALLY twisted views...

 

[Che]

Damn, some people here have REALLY twisted views...

I agree.

 

[dark10x]

I agree.

It's scary, actually. I hate to say it, but I actually agree with you on your last post (didn't see it before I posted).

That "I have muslim friends" is pretty funny. Of course, I will never group people by religion...

 

[Che]

It's scary, actually. I hate to say it, but I actually agree with you on your last post (didn't see it before I posted).

Hehe, well I still agree... If you read ErasureAcer's and Mustangs posts... They're actually different sides of the same twisted coin.

 

[dark10x]

Hehe, well I still agree... If you read ErasureAcer's and Mustangs posts... They're actually different sides of the same twisted coin.

...of course I'm sure they fail to realize that they are both in err, sadly.

 

[deadhorse32]

Don't forget -- the US is a Republic, not a pure Democracy.

The US is an "indirect democracy" which means it's a democracy

edit 1 :

"Democracy" versus "Republic"
The definition of the word "democracy" from the time of old Greece up to now has not been constant. According to most political scientists today (and most common English speakers), the term "democracy" refers to a government chosen by the people, whether it be direct or representative.

There is another definition of democracy, particularly in constitutional theory and in historical usages and especially when considering the works of Aristotle or the American "Founding Fathers." According to this definition, the word "democracy" refers solely to direct democracy, whilst a representative democracy is referred to as a "republic". This older terminology also has some popularity in U.S Conservative and Libertarian debate.

Modern definitions of the term Republic, however, refer to any State with an elective Head of State serving for a limited term, in contrast to most contemporary hereditary monarchies which are representative democracies and constitutional monarchies adhering to Parliamentarism. (Older elective monarchies are also not considered republics.)

http://www.fact-index.com/d/de/democracy_1.html

edit 2 : I agree with Che

 

[Blackace]

Here's a good web page explaining how the electoral college works.

it works? must be something new since I moved last year

 

[Loki]

First I thought the pig comment was more of a live by the sword die by the sword type of thing. Not a racial slur. I may have been wrong on this as you have pointed out. Second I didnt say I agreed with what he said in any way just that he should be able to say it. I think he had some of his arguments were just as valid as everyone elses.

Yes, some of what he said has some merit-- just not the couple of comments that I took him to task for in my first two posts, which you then decided to take issue with. The fact that you took exception to me taking issue with those particular comments is what prompted the above reply. Those remarks (of his) were entirely without merit and cannot be justified in any way, and so I said so. Your seeming defense of those comments is similarly untenable. He can say his piece, I can say mine.


Also, I never said that the "pig" comment was a racial slur, but merely a dehumanizing, disparaging epithet; I feel that it is actually worse than a comment such as "rag-head", though both are manifestly wrong.


"Live by the sword, die by the sword"? Sure, if my family ever took up arms against some innocents, then perhaps you'd be justified in saying such a thing and painting the entire nation with such broad strokes. But they, like most other Americans, haven't, nor do they necessarily condone everything done "in our name" by our government. News flash: for things to actually change in this country will require a bit more than voting Dubya out of office and replacing him with some random democrat.

In rereading you rant I find it amazing how the interpretaion of the single pig line completely set you off. Sometimes you need to try and see the complete picture of what someone is trying to say.

Err, yeah-- when someone likens my family and friends to swine who deserve to be murdered, that has a tendency of minimizing whatever else they may say, no matter its validity. Funny how that works, huh? And there's nothing to "interpret" about those lines-- it was a disgusting and intellectually bankrupt sentiment which was given utterance; ErasureAcer is not Shakespeare. I don't need to deconstruct those lines to make sense of them.

So if a person who is a pedophile happens to have some legitimate, sensible views on world affairs, but they preface their remarks with some sick comment about raping kids, I'm not allowed to rake them over the coals for it? Sure I am-- if they didn't wish to be judged, then they should have thought a bit about how such comments were going to be received before they said them, no? And that's not even a related matter, whereas his views vis-a-vis the culpability of American citizens is related to the issue at hand; if that's screwed up, then it will necessarily color his entire weltanschauung and his arguments in elucidating his stance. It behooves someone to have a coherent, sane worldview so that the more valid aspects of their ideology will not be dismissed out of hand. His comments betray a profound bias and a dim appreciation of the pertinent philosophical distinctions surrounding such issues.


And yeah, if he ever told me to my face that my family and I deserved to die, I'd gladly lay him up in the hospital by way of a righteous beatdown. It's the American way, after all. (yes, that was a joke)

 

[Guileless]

Making money by killing innocent women men and children, is the most disgusting thing the human race has ever done, and anyone who agrees with it or even tolerates it doesn't deserve to live.

I finally agree with you Che. Saddam's modus operandi--to steal the oil revenue from his people to build palaces and the army, as he indiscriminately raped and killed them to stay in power--shouldn't have been tolerated. Attacking four different neighboring countires, killing innocent women and children in an effort to expand his borders and get more oil, shouldn't have been tolerated. The French and Russian companies that lent him money and equipment are disgusting. The UN bureacrats who took kickbacks and winked as Saddam continued to steal Oil for Food Money are equally disgusting.

Who would tolerate such aberrant behavior? They deserve to die, right Che? Do you have time to answer this question?

 

[SteveMeister]

The US is an "indirect democracy" which means it's a democracy

Fine. The US doesn't completely work by popular vote. It's a Republic. So individuals don't directly vote for laws, or for a president. They vote for representatives and senators who make the laws, and for electors who then vote for president. So to say that every single US citizen is directly responsible for what their representative government does isn't entirely accurate, since individual citizens DON'T directly vote on much that the government does.

 

[darscot]

Now your just rambling and still can't get past the pig comment. You seem to taking an extreme exception to his comments. It just leads me to believe that you feel there is some truth to what he says. No one take offense to the rambling giberish of fools. People take offense to truth the don't like to admit too.

 

[deadhorse32]

Indirect democracy

Indirect democracy is a term describing a means of governance by the people through elected representatives. One critique of indirect democracy is that it can be used to filter out the will of the base element, particularly if too many layers of representatives exist.

A form of indirect democracy is delegative democracy. In delegative democracy, delegates are selected and expected to act on the wishes of the constituency. In this form of democracy the constituency may recall the delegate at any time.

A representative democracy is a system in which the people elect government officials who then make decisions on their behalf.

Essentially, a representative democracy is a form of indirect democracy in which representatives are democratically selected.

A doctrine often known as Edmund Burke's Principle states, that representatives should act upon their own conscience in the affairs of a representative democracy. This is contrasted to the expectation that such representatives should consider the views of their electors - an expectation particularly common in States with strong constituiency links.

Some critics of representative democracy argue that party politics mean that representatives will be forced to follow the party line on issues, rather than either the will of their conscience or constituents. But it can also be argued that the electors have expressed their will in the election, which puts the emphasis on the program the candidate was elected on, which he then is supposed to follow. One emerging problem with representative democracies is the increasing cost of political campaigns which lends the candidates to making deals with well healed supportors for legislation favorable to those supportors once the candidate is elected.

http://www.internet-encyclopedia.org/wiki.php?title=Democracy

US Republic = indirect democracy.

 

[Loki]

And seriously I wouldn't give a rat's ass if all these rednecks who still have the audacity to support this rotten goverment died instantaneously, like they don't give a **** that innocent people got murdered, so that the weapons' dealers and oil companies get richer, just cause these people weren't "americans" or were muslims. WE ARE ALL HUMANS YOU RACIST BASTARDS. You should cry for those Iraqi souls like you cried for the 9/11 victims.

I would say that those who believe what is highlighted above are in the extreme minority; the rest are just misguided and/or intellectually unsophisticated "patriots" who've been bamboozled by our social and governmental elite, or others who supported the war on other, (seemingly) legitimate grounds. It all depends upon the rationale of the individual in granting intellectual assent to such a venture. Unfortunately, individual motives are difficult to ascertain, and so the tendency- on all sides- is to demonize.


But yeah, anybody who does actually think that way is despicable, and deserves to be imprisoned at the very least. They certainly should not be setting policy, which is what I feel happens all too often. Sad.

 

[Socreges]

ErasureAcer has a terrible reputation on another board that I used to post at. He's such a fucking douchebag.

 

[darscot]

ErasureAcer has a terrible reputation on another board that I used to post at. He's such a fucking douchebag.

What purpose does this serve? Does what he says scare you so much we have to resort to this. What's next, My friends Aunts Sister heard him say he hates baseball and apple pie.

 

[SteveMeister]

http://www.internet-encyclopedia.org/wiki.php?title=Democracy

US Republic = indirect democracy.

You already said that.

 

[Loki]

Now your just rambling and still can't get past the pig comment. You seem to taking an extreme exception to his comments. It just leads me to believe that you feel there is some truth to what he says. No one take offense to the rambling giberish of fools. People take offense to truth the don't like to admit too.

Are you attempting to psychoanalyze me, darscot? Doesn't that presuppose that you have a functioning brain? Good luck with that...


You were the one who defended his indefensible comments, and you were the one who was clearly shown to be in error. Ever think that I agree with some (but not nearly all) of what he's said, which is why I only focused on a couple of his statements? That doesn't mean that I cannot be deeply offended and angered by his other ill-considered views, as I quoted. You then decided that I somehow was "not allowed" to say what I did-- I guess I'm only allowed to agree or disagree with someone's entire post, according to you (since I'm not allowed to single out certain comments, as I did, for censure). That's an asinine stance to take, but it's so terribly "darscot" of you.


So, to recap (since it seems to take you a while):

I didn't have to "get past" the "pig" comment, or the "you deserve death" comment, because his other statements actually have some merit, and can be argued and defended, even if I don't agree with all of them. Those two statements, however, cannot be, and, in fact, are such despicable comments that they compelled me to let him know that he is in no position to judge millions of innocent Americans from his lofty perch on <wait for it>...an internet forum.


Don't like that I took exception to it? Tough nuts. I do not excuse such reprehensible virulence, nor shall I countenance fatuity wrapped in vacuous, extremist rhetoric. Further, I'm far from the only one who took exception to those remarks, and there's a reason for that.

 

[Socreges]

What purpose does this serve? Does what he says scare you so much we have to resort to this. What's next, My friends Aunts Sister heard him say he hates baseball and apple pie.

I'm not even American, you dimwit.

Basically, ErasureAcer's conduct wouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that was familiar with him. Don't give him the time of day.

 

[shuri]

 

[deadhorse32]

You already said that.

I'm not gonna argue any longer about that. Read the quotes in my last 2 post.
I don't care if you think i'm right or wrong

greeting

THE MILH

 

[Mau_Mau]

Yeah, I love how all of this shit is made available to the public.

Quite frankly I'm getting tired of reading these terror warnings. I realize you want to keep the country safe, but this is like the boy who cried wolf.

$10 says this is just more bullshit "we're keepin' our nation STRONG and huntin' 'dem terreriss" from the Bush administration to brainwash the public once again.

Haha. Are you mocking me?! Or was I mocking you?

 

[MIMIC]

The new details of al Qaeda's plans were found on a laptop computer belonging to arrested al Qaeda operative Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan of Pakistan....

Wasn't he the former-under cover CIA agent that was outed recently?

 

[darscot]

I wasn't aware I was in error, today anyway. I never said that you shouldn't be allowed to say anything, that would be you that wanted him banned. I was the one defended his and everyone elses ability to speak there mind as long as it wasn't blatant racism. I did not feel he was being racist.

I'm sure they is a relationship to the number of syllables in your word choice based on the strength of your argument.

Basically it boils down to this. I didn't think his statments were that outlandish or offensive as to warrant he be banned. I feel him standing up and speaking his point knowing full well he is going to get worked for it is commendable. You clearly don't. I think we should be able to agree to disagree now and you can put your thesouras away.

 

[SteveMeister]

I'm not gonna argue any longer about that. Read the quotes in my last 2 post.
I don't care if you think i'm right or wrong

greeting

THE MILH

It's not a matter of right or wrong. I clarified myself after your FIRST post, and you went ahead & posted another definition. And the slight semantics issue (I said the US wasn't a "pure" Democracy, it's a Republic, and you said the US is an "indirect" Democracy) was totally irrelevant to the point of my post -- which was that individual citizens of the US do NOT vote directly for their President or for federal laws, so why should individual citizens be held directly responsible for the government's actions?

 

[Spectral Glider]

Pigs, ragheads, rednecks and people who deserve to die......this whole thread is a friggen joke.

Here's a couple things though:

New Zealand doesn't even have a fucking air force, do you see them getting attacked? Nope because they don't piss people off and don't want to control the world. Nobody dying in New Zealand from terrorists.

The only nations with innoncent civilians are those who aren't actively attacking others...New Zealand for instance. If terrorists struck New Zealand tomorrow, that truely would be a shame.

In this country, you're free to speak your mind. You're also free to move about and enjoy places like New Zealand.

Again, this doesn't show that all Americans are responsible for the suffering caused by American foreign policy. Most Americans don't even know what happened and what is going on. If you change the President of the US, and the foreign policy took at 180 degree turn, Americans wouldn't really notice a difference. Thus, they can't be held accountable.

Yeah, let's pretend that it's only in America where a large portion of the citizens wouldn't notice a 180 degree turn in world politics. I must have missed the stat that proves America is the home to the most politically ignorant people in the world. No, there's just the stereotype that, "Americans are teh stoopid."

By sitting on their ass and not voting in someone good or just not caring they are still responsible for the government that represents them.

A non-informed, "blind" vote is much more damaging than no vote at all IMO. Just like I find very little use for people who just vote all Republican or all Democrat because they don't really know better. If you ask me, I'd rather they stay home.

You *can* however blame the people living in a democracy because (at least according to the PR) the people living in a democracy have the final say in what their government does.

No, they don't. Steve is right, doesn't matter what kind of definition you slap on it either, the truth is that US citizens do not have a final influence on the government.

 

[Guileless]

I didn't think his statments were that outlandish or offensive as to warrant he be banned. .

darscot, he endorsed the indiscriminate murder of anyone who happened to be in the United States by medieval religious fanatics. In what world is that not outlandish or offensive?

 

[Loki]

I wasn't aware I was in error, today anyway. I never said that you shouldn't be allowed to say anything, that would be you that wanted him banned. I was the one defended his and everyone elses ability to speak there mind as long as it wasn't blatant racism. I did not feel he was being racist.

I'm sure they is a relationship to the number of syllables in your word choice based on the strength of your argument.

Basically it boils down to this. I didn't think his statments were that outlandish or offensive as to warrant he be banned. I feel him standing up and speaking his point knowing full well he is going to get worked for it is commendable. You clearly don't. I think we should be able to agree to disagree now and you can put your thesouras away.

Yet you never detailed precisely why "racism" is worse than dehumanization and the tacit condoning of murder, which is the only reason why the one should be grounds for banning but not the other. I'll be waiting...

And if you're suggesting that the relative "strength" of my "argument" is weak just because I use a few "big" words, well, that's your own bias showing itself. Those with brains, or common sense, would think differently.


You don't think him calling all Americans "pigs" who "deserve to die" is as offensive or outlandish as merely calling a group of people "rag-heads"? That's preposterous, quite frankly. Both are wrong, but his comment is worse, if only for the fact that it involves the implicit acceptance of violence against said group as opposed to solely the epithet. And I don't need a "thesouras" to speak my mind, thank you. But I'd at least make sure I knew how to spell thesaurus before I got involved in any sort of weighty discussion. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for you.


And, for the last time, I didn't care about whether or not he was banned-- I was making a point about hypocrisy and inconsistency, which was nicely illustrated in your comments towards Mustang several posts later, which I called you out on. So it is "commendable" to be able to give air to the worst sort of foolishness so long as one has the foreknowledge that they are going to be given hell for it? What if they didn't know the board's general views on things and they still made the comments? Would that still be commendable, or would such people then be reduced to mere useless idiots? If Hitler came in here and said that all Jews must die, should we heap praise upon him for having such "courage of conviction"? Or should we just pelt him with eggs and feces and be done with him? I was merely saying that based upon the accepted rules of conduct on GA, that he should have been banned, and that I've seen many others banned for far less. Your reaction towards Mustang only serves to underscore my point in this regard.


Again, please lay out specifically why "racism" is altogether worse than others forms of slander and degradation, and how it can possibly be worse than somebody who's condoning outright murder. I'll be waiting, darscot; until then, kindly refrain from insisting that you weren't in error here-- you only make yourself look bad. Believe me.


Toodles,

Loki

 

[darscot]

The guy appears to be an American so I just assumed he was trying to make a point. That being that more Americans should take responsabilty for themselves and their country. They should stop saying there innocent while there nation is dropping bombs on innocent people. To this I completely agree. I tried to look at his overall message not his individual words. I do feel that doing nothing while your country is at war is guilt by association. Many of you appear to disagree with this point. I think that's a valid stance. It's just different from mine.

 

[Che]

I finally agree with you Che. Saddam's modus operandi--to steal the oil revenue from his people to build palaces and the army, as he indiscriminately raped and killed them to stay in power--shouldn't have been tolerated. Attacking four different neighboring countires, killing innocent women and children in an effort to expand his borders and get more oil, shouldn't have been tolerated. The French and Russian companies that lent him money and equipment are disgusting. The UN bureacrats who took kickbacks and winked as Saddam continued to steal Oil for Food Money are equally disgusting.

Who would tolerate such aberrant behavior? They deserve to die, right Che? Do you have time to answer this question?

You shouldn't really say that since the attacks against Iran were planned and executed with the infinite help and cooperation of the US goverment. And the US corporations would still lend money and buy oil from Saddam if Saddam hadn't risen the price of oil directly disobeying the US. Saddam wouldn't be the "evil dictator" but a "noble leader" and Rumsfeld would still shake his hand... Your naiveness is unstoppable.

 

[ShadowRed]

"No, they don't. Steve is right, doesn't matter what kind of definition you slap on it either, the truth is that US citizens do not have a final influence on the government."



Uh..pardon... then someone better stop teaching the Constitution in schools, cause I was taught that this is a country of, for and by the people. That's why we have elections and shit. Now I find out that the citizens do not have a final influence on the government, those lying "liburl" teachers.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Fuck you, you vacant apologist bitch.

but you mean to tell me that I deserve to die for actions perpetrated by a few? Get the hell out of here.

You guys have obviously misunderstood what I meant and are reading WAY too much into what I wrote. I never said you deserve to die because you're an American. What I did say was that I can understand why people want to attack America and the POS Americans as a whole who elect POS American Governments.

Who are these "terrorists" supposed to be mad at? GW Bush or the country that elects GW Bush or Bill Clinton or George HW Bush or Reagan or Carter or Nixon or Johnson or Kennedy or Eisenhower and so far back. We the American people elect our leaders to represent us...if our leaders piss off enough people it is bound that we're going to be attacked when all these presidents have had a strong militaristic push and have "played god" with lots of nations.

If you die tomorrow, or even if I die tomorrow by the hands of terrorists I really fucking don't care...my rage won't be at the terrorists it will be at the government for failing diplomatically to get along with these people. People don't hate us because we're free. They hate us because we like to play god and fuck up their countries by telling them what they can and can not do whether it be removing opium in Afghanistan or wanting capitalism in Columbia.

And when we die by terrorists what then? Our deaths mean nothing because on the whole tens of thousands of "civilians" have been killed by the American government in the past year. What does it matter that we die by some other government/organization? It doesn't. We get what we deserve, it's karma. We kill others, others kill us. This is what the USA wants right? Another POS president Kerry or Bush again...more wars...more provocation on people in other countries. Well guess what we'll get more wars and more provocation from people in other countries.

You treat people the way you wish to be treated because in the end they will treat you the same way you treat them. In this case with America trying to dictate most of the world...you have people trying to strike back and dictate us through "terror," just like the terror we unleashed on millions of people over the past 58 years.

I don't wish for Loki to die. But if it happens I must say he had it coming. The world will only sit around for too long before they attack back. We are the world bully.

 

[darscot]

Now the poor guy is being compared to Hitler. Man this guy put one heck of a bee in your bonet.

Were talking apples and oranges on the racism to what ever it is you think he did. He ripped the shortcoming he found in his own nation. He basically found things he dosen't agree with from within himself and his own country and voiced them. To me that is a good thing. It takes guts and open eyes. It has nothing to do with Hitler, Racism or throwing shit.

He did not say these people are bad because they wear a specific type of hat.

Many before you have felt they needed to rip me for my spelling. If you could manage to read my tag it basically defines me on the forum. You can come up with more then that and your thesourus.

 

[Spectral Glider]

"No, they don't. Steve is right, doesn't matter what kind of definition you slap on it either, the truth is that US citizens do not have a final influence on the government."



Uh..pardon... then someone better stop teaching the Constitution in schools, cause I was taught that this is a country of, for and by the people. That's why we have elections and shit. Now I find out that the citizens do not have a final influence on the government, those lying "liburl" teachers.

So when and where exactly did you cast your vote for or against invading Iraq? How many others voted on that issue with you? Where you asked to vote to decide if taxes should be raised or lowered? I really wish I was able to vote against the raising of the turnpike toll here in PA, but damn, guess I missed the day that was held.

 

[Loki]

Watch how easy this is, darscot:

The guy appears to be an American so I just assumed he was trying to make a point. That being that more arabs should take responsibility for themselves and their government. They should stop saying they're innocent while their nations churn out violent extremists from publicly-funded madrassahs. With this I completely agree. Many of you appear to disagree with this point. I think that's a valid stance. It's just different from mine.

Voila! Look how easy it was to use your exact words and logic to justify an American calling arabs/muslims "rag-heads". Not that I agree with such a thing, but, using your "logic", you would have to.


Again, please delineate the reasons why racism is worse than dehumanization, slander, and the acceptance of murder. Until you do so, you're just talking a bunch of nonsense and hot air. You were incontrovertibly wrong to condemn the one and not the other (as evidenced by your calling for a banning for one but actually defending and praising the other), and you were further wrong for suggesting that I was somehow not permitted to pick and choose which aspects of someone's beliefs I disagreed with.


I'll be waiting, darscot. I can do this as long as you can. Impress me with your brilliant philosophical mind-- in what way is racism "worse" than the other statements made? Define "worse", and then show me why racism falls under that umbrella but the acceptance of murder, and dehumanization, does not.


Thanks in advance.

 

[darscot]

Nice quote there. I can't perfectly define how something makes me feel or stikes an emotion within me. Something raical for some reason is far more severe in my mind. You'll be wating a long time if you expect more of an answer then that. There two completely different beasts. Saying a group your a part of deserves what it gets is not the same as racism. I never said you were not allowed to agree or disagree with anything. I simply felt you coutner argument and how dare you was nonsense and fit the blatant "American" stereo-type. I've always felt the whole how dare you bit has a whole I'm better then you flavour. If you not going to bring anything new or in any way try to explain your point with a new perspective can we please just move on.

Actually this is pointless. Your like a full post behind. I feel like I'm try to argue with my own echo. Or say everything twice.

 

[ErasureAcer]

People just need to realize that who represents them effects what happens to their life. If we have a peace loving president who doesn't start shit we'd be far better off and then we would be "innocent civilians" because we're not at war but when we start wars with people and are in a constant state of "war" as we've pretty much been for the past 63 years...then yes we're not civilians we are citizens who are supporting war: through our tax dollars and through who we as a whole elect and the policies they support.

The sad situation is, is that it isn't easy getting asylum into another country to leave(I've looked into it) and it isn't easy to gain citizenship either. I guess if I were a better person I would just renounce my US citizenship but then where would I go? Who would take me?

Make no doubt about it...this country will keep on being attacked until we take a peace approach to our foreign policy. However we have lit flames under a lot of people...they'd still be attacking us for our past actions but someone has to draw the line and say an end to it all. If we really are the people with more "moral" ranking, shouldn't we be the ones to initiate the peace process? This country talks about leadership in the world but in all honesty it is just the biggest disruptor to anything meaningful getting done. Always going it alone, always preaching to nations as one and not as a whole through the UN, always traning new people in the art of war and not the art of peace.

 

[SteveMeister]

"No, they don't. Steve is right, doesn't matter what kind of definition you slap on it either, the truth is that US citizens do not have a final influence on the government."



Uh..pardon... then someone better stop teaching the Constitution in schools, cause I was taught that this is a country of, for and by the people. That's why we have elections and shit. Now I find out that the citizens do not have a final influence on the government, those lying "liburl" teachers.

Well, your vote counts towards the electors for your candidate getting the chance to submit THEIR votes in a Presidential election. Personally I think the electoral college is archaic, and there's no reason why popular vote shouldn't choose the President. But, that's not the way things are set up.

Your vote helps to put Representatives and Senators into Congress, who then make laws and confirm Presidential appointees.

But your vote doesn't directly go into the decision to pass a particular law, go to war, etc.

The point being that while the masses will always make the POPULAR choice in such issues, that isn't always the right choice to make. Not to mention the fact that Congressmen and women vote on many, many issues during sessions, and I know I certainly wouldn't want to have a couple hundred bills to vote on every November. YMMV of course.

 

[Saint Cornelius]

I would just like to go on the record and say that this thread is making my penis very limp.

 

[Che]

You guys have obviously misunderstood what I meant and are reading WAY too much into what I wrote. I never said you deserve to die because you're an American. What I did say was that I can understand why people want to attack America and the POS Americans as a whole who elect POS American Governments.

Who are these "terrorists" supposed to be mad at? GW Bush or the country that elects GW Bush or Bill Clinton or George HW Bush or Reagan or Carter or Nixon or Johnson or Kennedy or Eisenhower and so far back. We the American people elect our leaders to represent us...if our leaders piss off enough people it is bound that we're going to be attacked when all these presidents have had a strong militaristic push and have "played god" with lots of nations.

If you die tomorrow, or even if I die tomorrow by the hands of terrorists I really fucking don't care...my rage won't be at the terrorists it will be at the government for failing diplomatically to get along with these people. People don't hate us because we're free. They hate us because we like to play god and fuck up their countries by telling them what they can and can not do whether it be removing opium in Afghanistan or wanting capitalism in Columbia.

And when we die by terrorists what then? Our deaths mean nothing because on the whole tens of thousands of "civilians" have been killed by the American government in the past year. What does it matter that we die by some other government/organization? It doesn't. We get what we deserve, it's karma. We kill others, others kill us. This is what the USA wants right? Another POS president Kerry or Bush again...more wars...more provocation on people in other countries. Well guess what we'll get more wars and more provocation from people in other countries.

You treat people the way you wish to be treated because in the end they will treat you the same way you treat them. In this case with America trying to dictate most of the world...you have people trying to strike back and dictate us through "terror," just like the terror we unleashed on millions of people over the past 58 years.

I don't wish for Loki to die. But if it happens I must say he had it coming. The world will only sit around for too long before they attack back. We are the world bully.

If you're telling your honest opinion ItotallyAWTP.

PS. Btw your opinions remind me of that guy who was "invited" in the O'Reilly's show and was saying that the US goverment was responsible the death of his father in the 9/11 attacks. That -of course- made furious that disgusting abomination called O'Reilly.

 

[darscot]

I would just like to go on the record and say that this thread is making my penis very limp.

It's done the same to my brain. LOL

Never engage in a battle of the wits with an armed man. I think that's Twain. It applies to me and everyone that argues with me.

 

[Drensch]

Rather than stirring up the idiot fest this has become, I'll just say what ABC news just said. This report is bullshit.