UFC 143 |OT|: Diaz vs Conduit - The Start of the 209 Era

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TheNatural said:
What do you mean bottom of the barrel? Edgar vs. Maynard was the WORST buyrate of all 16 PPV's last year. That's 16 of 16 bud. That means no one gave a flat fuck who the contender was, or even who the champ was. The last thing UFC has to worry about there is keeping "credible contenders" for the fight. More like they just have to find a place period to put that kind of fight on because it's not headline material yet.

Which is why I think Silva and GSP should be fighting four times a year. The more they fight, the stronger undercard you can put together and the more people will watch those guys as well. Edgar/Bendo vs. whoever on the Silva-Sonnen card, or even Aldo which would make more sense, would be great for those lower divisions. I think the last thing they need to be worrying about is overexposing those divisions, if anything thats just exactly what they need to be doing by putting them as co-main event on huge GSP/Silva/Bones cards.
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So your solution to the problem is having Frankie fight even worse competition more often at $50-60 a pop to help business?

You're also asking the UFC to increase their PPVs by around 50% yearly to house these title fights. Yeah, this is a great idea.
 
TheNatural said:
It was a month difference though. I'm sorry, you're not going to sell me *if* GSP said I want to fight in 3-4 months Dana sit there and told him "no no no sorry Georges, we don't want you as a headliner ... by golly, we have to see if Dan Hardy or Mike Swick is next, so we'll wait until then!"
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They're fortunate that Cain/JDS and Brock/Alistair were booked within 6-7 weeks of each other. However, if Cain/JDS was booked for November and Brock/Alistair was booked for March, as has been the case with GSP, how is that anyone's fault but Dana White and Joe Silva? Do you think the UFC would allow Junior to fight Frank Mir in the meantime? I don't.

TheNatural said:
Of course, I think in UFC's typical matchmaking fashion they do wait on their own, i'll give you that. Are you going to tell me GSP makes any effort whatsoever to fight more though? I've never heard Dana once mention that and he says that about a lot of guys. Hell he was saying Koscheck wanted to fill in for the FOX card to face Maia of all people and then fight a week later! I give the guy credit for that. You never hear the same shit about GSP.
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You can't compare Koscheck stepping in to fight Mike Pierce with a championship fight. Title shots are, or are at least are supposed to be earned. Johny Hendricks asked for the winner of Diaz/Condit. You think he's going to get that fight?
 
yacobod said:
i do think Natural is bringing up some good points.

I don't think the UFC can sustain 16 pay-per-views a year without cards and buyrates suffering. It's think it's too much to ask of fans to shell out $880 a year if they are buying every card. I think they should seriously cut it down to 12 ppvs per year, and move 4 of them to the free FOX cards.

Another possibility is the sport peaked with brock-mania at UFC 100 and it's going to either maintain this level or slowly decline over time.
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I think that we all agree that the UFC is over-saturating the PPV market.

And I actually think that the US economy being in the shitter might also account for some of the shitty 2011 buyrates.

We've all gone over how if you take the ME's for the next 4 free cards, it looks like an average PPV event. None of this is in debate.
 
Boogie said:
Oh, FOUR times a year. So we bypass three, and land firmly in "does not fucking happen"-fantasy-land.
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Like GSP ever winning again by anything other than a decision right?

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Face it, GSP's fight timing is just like his style in the cage ever since he has been with Greg Jackson. It's safe, nothing else. He waits for the predetermined #1 contender without so much as a fuss, if there is no obvious contender, he doesn't speak up to get in quicker, if the #1 contender is hurt, he waits.

Fighting anymore than twice a year is a risk, and he doesn't want to take a risk in anything anymore. He didn't want to move up in weight to fight anyone when no one interesting was there to fight him, doesn't want to push a fight, doesn't want to risk anything that might hurt his legacy. That's fine, he's about on the level of Mayweather or Pacquaio, great for him, bad for MMA.
 
I kinda wish they'd get rid of titles. How's that to add fuel to the fire.

edit: or at least seriously retool the way things are structured as a revolving door of fights just for rankings and a shiny piece of hardware.
 
TheNatural said:
Like GSP ever winning again by anything other than a decision right?

iDut2cHyI99Ag.gif


Face it, GSP's fight timing is just like his style in the cage ever since he has been with Greg Jackson. It's safe, nothing else. He waits for the predetermined #1 contender without so much as a fuss, if there is no obvious contender, he doesn't speak up to get in quicker, if the #1 contender is hurt, he waits.

Fighting anymore than twice a year is a risk, and he doesn't want to take a risk in anything anymore. He didn't want to move up in weight to fight anyone when no one interesting was there to fight him, doesn't want to push a fight, doesn't want to risk anything that might hurt his legacy. That's fine, he's about on the level of Mayweather or Pacquaio, great for him, bad for MMA.
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You're going into pure troll mode.
 
Heel said:
So your solution to the problem is having Frankie fight even worse competition more often at $50-60 a pop to help business?

You're also asking the UFC to increase their PPVs by around 50% yearly to house these title fights. Yeah, this is a great idea.
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If he's not drawing already and you put him on co main events of bigger cards, how does it not help that division and himself?
 
TheNatural said:
Like GSP ever winning again by anything other than a decision right?

iDut2cHyI99Ag.gif


Face it, GSP's fight timing is just like his style in the cage ever since he has been with Greg Jackson. It's safe, nothing else. He waits for the predetermined #1 contender without so much as a fuss, if there is no obvious contender, he doesn't speak up to get in quicker, if the #1 contender is hurt, he waits.

Fighting anymore than twice a year is a risk, and he doesn't want to take a risk in anything anymore. He didn't want to move up in weight to fight anyone when no one interesting was there to fight him, doesn't want to push a fight, doesn't want to risk anything that might hurt his legacy. That's fine, he's about on the level of Mayweather or Pacquaio, great for him, bad for MMA.
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You heard it here first, folks. The#1 PPV draw in MMA is, in fact, bad for MMA.
 
Don't worry gentlemen, under TheNatural's business model GSP will be fighting Josh Neer in 2015 to the tune of 1 million buys and have plenty of finishes under his belt. UFC is saved.
 
yacobod said:
i do think Natural is bringing up some good points.

I don't think the UFC can sustain 16 pay-per-views a year without cards and buyrates suffering. It's think it's too much to ask of fans to shell out $880 a year if they are buying every card. I think they should seriously cut it down to 12 ppvs per year, and move 4 of them to the free FOX cards.

Another possibility is the sport peaked with brock-mania at UFC 100 and it's going to either maintain this level or slowly decline over time.
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16 pay-per-views that average a 350k buyrate is probably more profitable to them than cutting down on shows would be. Don't forget how much those Bud Light Lime sponsorships pay.
 
Boogie said:
You heard it here first, folks. The#1 PPV draw in MMA is, in fact, bad[/i] for MMA.
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So much as Mayweather and Pacquaio are good or bad for boxing. It's good for themselves and I guess boxing for the short time remaining in their careers without fighting each other. After that, then what?

Kinda like when GSP retires. Diaz has come out of nowhere to supply a much needed big fight, but where before and after this? We're probably going to never see the Superfight of Silva-GSP, we're probably going to get the usual run of also ran contenders until the guy just gets old enough where he can't go anymore.

The guy doesn't fight enough to give undercard guys on his fights the rub, MMA won't get that Superfight that gets everyone talking about it, but I guess his legacy is safe. I don't see why he doesn't do more with the time he has left in his career. He's content to be safe.
 
Sinatar said:
I dunno why you lets these fucks draw you in like that Boogie.
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because if I didn't, I wouldn't post here at all anymore, and everyone would forget about me. :(

also: because beating up on yacobod's shitty troll logic is easy. Like doing a few rounds on a heavy bag.
 
Chamber said:
16 pay-per-views that average a 350k buyrate is probably more profitable to them than cutting down on shows would be. Don't forget how much those Bud Light Lime sponsorships pay.
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More PPVs adding up to more buys but to less people isn't good business. That's catering to the hardcore and not expanding the sport.
 
Heel said:
More PPVs adding up to more buys but to less people isn't good business. That's catering to the hardcore and not expanding the sport.
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As long as they can sell out is all that matters, the gate is better than the buyrate. I don't see them not selling out anytime soon (unless its Strikeforce.)
 
TheNatural said:
As long as they can sell out is all that matters, the gate is better than the buyrate. I don't see them not selling out anytime soon (unless its Strikeforce.)
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UFC is a PPV business and makes infinitely more money from PPV than their live gates. They barely cover their payroll with the gate half the time now.
 
Chamber said:
Can anyone tell me what this discussion has to do with UFC 143?
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On Topic:

Torn between rooting for a Diaz victory to see GSP re-enact Rory/Nate, and a Condit victory because, fuck Diaz, y'know? Like with Penn, I think it is a more beneficial style matchup for Diaz than anything else he is likely to encounter at WW.

Nelson/Werdum will either be fun as hell or shitty boxing.

aaaaand beyond that just interested in seeing whether Kos has anything for a non-old-timer.
 
Heel said:
More PPVs adding up to more buys but to less people isn't good business. That's catering to the hardcore and not expanding the sport.
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When it comes to growing the business, I'm out of my element. It would seem the extreme alternative is cutting down on shows and sticking every non-top 10 guy in Fuel TV hell. I'm not sure if that would be any better or worse.
 
Heel said:
ibyurJmEu8ctEq.gif


UFC is a PPV business and makes infinitely more money from PPV than their live gates. They barely cover their payroll with the gate half the time now.
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They get the gate immediately, it takes a lot longer to get the money from the PPV.
 
TheNatural said:
They get the gate immediately, it takes a lot longer to get the money from the PPV.
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The absolute best gate in UFC history was UFC 129 in Toronto. Gate was $12 million. (they presumably don't get to keep all of that.)

PPV buys were 800k. At 55 a pop, that's 44 million gross. Assuming a 50% cut, that's 22 million in the UFC's pocket for the same event.

So, even for their greatest live gate of all time, PPV > live gate.
 
Boogie said:
The absolute best gate in UFC history was UFC 129 in Toronto. Gate was $12 million. (they presumably don't get to keep all of that.)

PPV buys were 800k. At 55 a pop, that's 44 million gross. Assuming a 50% cut, that's 22 million in the UFC's pocket for the same event.

So, even for their greatest live gate of all time, PPV > live gate.
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Should have worded it better. I don't think the gate draws more money, I think it's better for the short term because with that and merchandise they get that money right off, and as I understand, PPV money comes later on. Getting all the money to pay everyone and more right off, anything on PPV is a bonus. They can live off the gate and get the money right off without even being on PPV.

Hell, TNA Wrestling has PPV's every month, they get virtually no gate because the show takes place in Universal Studios and the crowd gets in for free (outside of the handful that pay for $100 VIP packages to sit up front and meet wrestlers etc) and their PPV buyrates are consistently around 6,000-8,000. And they survive.

I think people kind of underestimate what UFC is actually doing compared to other companies. WWE does around 100,000 buys or less on a typical PPV. It's gate is much mower because tickets are much cheaper (of course they travel constantly so its different that way.) Boxing outside of Pacquaio and Mayweather in major fights typically doesn't do well. Hopkins-Dawson only drew 40,000 buys or so last year.

So I think people are a little off when they say UFC whatever bombed with 200,000 buys and they need to cut down on PPV's because they're bombing. They usually make a ton of bank right at the gate so any PPV number is a bonus in the first place, and then the number is typically higher than anything except a very major WWE or boxing PPV, which are made up of about only three entities.
 
If you would take a break and get your head out of GSPs ass, you wouldn't look past Nick Diaz. He's the most well rounded guy GSP ever fought. Best striking, dangerous BJJ off his back, granite chin, and cardio for days.

GSP likes attacking his opponent's weaknesses and doesn't ever really deviate from that game-plan. He will stand up with K1 striker jake shields. LNP a striker likr Dan Hardy. Diaz can attack him from any position, which win or lose will actually make the fight fun to watch for a change because GSP won't be able to fight safe from any position, unless he resorts to wall n stall tactics.

and the biggest thing going against him is going to be ring rust, 18+ months is no joke, ACL injuries are notoriously difficult to come back from, most guys usually take a year or 2 before they return to form if ever, and for a fighter that relies so much on his "athleticism", i think it's a valid concern.

so your shit just reeks of false bravado.
 
parrotbeak said:
I can't wait till tomorrow so we can argue about actual fights.
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No harm no foul. I just want to see fighters take the initiative more to fight, and see guys like Silva and GSP do more to push fights to carry the sports on their back. They're under no obligation to do so, I just would like to see it.

No hate on Boogie or Chamber, or GSP, I hope he kicks Diaz's ass. I'd rather converse with guys here than in the wrestling thread about why Dolph Ziggler isn't getting a bigger push or something.

Thats the great thing about the MMA thread, no matter your opinion in the MMA Universe WHETHER YOU LOVE ME OR HATE ME THE ABILITY TO SPEAK YOUR MIND AND SUPPORT THIS SPORT IS WHAT MAKES IT THE GREATEST SPORT NIGHT IN NIGHT OUT YEAAHHH!

john-cena-2.jpg
 
TheNatural said:
So I think people are a little off when they say UFC whatever bombed with 200,000 buys .
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No, they're not off when they say that. UFC does bomb when they hit 225k buys, because 225k buys is their ABSOLUTE FLOOR for buys in the past five years. Throw up all the excuses you want, but when they hit that number, it sucks, and they've bombed.


yacobod said:
If you would take a break and get your head out of GSPs ass, you wouldn't look past Nick Diaz. He's the most well rounded guy GSP ever fought.
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Aww, yacobod. I <3 you. Because when what you write is dumb as hell, you don't back away, you just double down on the stupid. (:

edit: oh, but I agree with the part where the biggest danger to GSP is the ring rust, and whether he is 100% in his recovery. Why, it's almost like Diaz himself is a complete non-factor in that equation. (:
 
Good talk gentlemen. We should do it more often. Now if you'll excuse me, I have money to lose gambling. Goodnight.
 
Boogie said:
No, they're not off when they say that. UFC does bomb when they hit 225k buys, because 225k buys is their ABSOLUTE FLOOR for buys in the past five years. Throw up all the excuses you want, but when they hit that number, it sucks, and they've bombed.




Aww, yacobod. I <3 you. Because when what you write is dumb as hell, you don't back away, you just double down on the stupid. (:
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I'm not making excuses, I'm just looking at the entire PPV landscape. Bombing according to UFC numbers? Sure. That doesn't mean it's a bad overall number though. I guess it's like a highly profitable business making less profit than expected. They still made a profit, so it's better than a loss, but disappointing by their standards.
 
Boogie said:
Shitting on MMA OGs like that just reveals how much of a poison you are to GAF MMA discussion.
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You're a joke. The only thing you've contributed tonight is petty tossing insults with no substance behind any of your posts. My criticism of Sinatar's post is completely valid. His drive-by post was completely worthless. Either be involved in the discussion or don't post. He's a bitch.
 
bone_and_sinew said:
The UFC should bring back tournaments.

No, the flyweight 4 man shit don't count.
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Heavyweight 8 man tourney in Japan one night. JDS makes the final after two brutal fights, Overeem wins and gets hurt in the other side. Alternate Mark Hunt replaces him in the final and wins the UFC title by submission.

iDut2cHyI99Ag.gif
 
yacobod said:
You're a joke. The only thing you've contributed tonight is petty tossing insults with no substance behind any of your posts. My criticism of Sinatar's post is completely valid. His drive-by post was completely worthless. Either be involved in the discussion or don't post. He's a bitch.
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Aww, see, it's cute how you can say that while ignoring the past two-dozen posts I've made shitting all over your arguments.

Or, to call me a "joke" given your OP's.

I'm sure if Biff Hardbody were still around, you'd crap on him too.
 
TheNatural said:
No harm no foul. I just want to see fighters take the initiative more to fight, and see guys like Silva and GSP do more to push fights to carry the sports on their back. They're under no obligation to do so, I just would like to see it.

No hate on Boogie or Chamber, or GSP, I hope he kicks Diaz's ass. I'd rather converse with guys here than in the wrestling thread about why Dolph Ziggler isn't getting a bigger push or something.

Thats the great thing about the MMA thread, no matter your opinion in the MMA Universe WHETHER YOU LOVE ME OR HATE ME THE ABILITY TO SPEAK YOUR MIND AND SUPPORT THIS SPORT IS WHAT MAKES IT THE GREATEST SPORT NIGHT IN NIGHT OUT YEAAHHH!
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Ya, true. Most of the time I think the regs here mostly agree on things, we're just nitpicking or trolling and retrolling. But I'm saying that having skipped much of the last page so I could be completely wrong.
 
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