you need to get over this
UFC 143 |OT|: Diaz vs Conduit - The Start of the 209 Era
- Thread starter yacobod
- Start date
- Status
you need to get over this
I agree that there's no worthy contenders built at the moment, but that's more of a perception problem than anything. I can see Poirier being a fun fight for Aldo. Barao would be a fun fight for Cruz.
The lighter weights are fun as hell to watch. You will see the light, friend.
I dunno, I think a lot of people were pretty upset about Hardy getting that shot. Myself included. The casuals yes, they generally have horrible taste in MEs.
TheNatural
My Member!
I'm done, my head hurts, that comment topped it all. His fight with Okami wasn't huge buyrate in the US last year (hurricane irene also took out a lot of east coast electricity at the time as well), but his fight with Vitor was third best buyrate last year. He's obviously one of the top draws in UFC right now, maybe not Lesnar levels, but really no one is now.
I think if you try to pitch more than 2 title defenses a year, eventually you will end up trying to sell contenders on 2 or 3 fight win streaks. This is bad business in the long run. Look at JBJ by the end of the year if he stays on this clip.
Even these guys defending 2 times a year have fought cans when we look in the rear-view.
Even these guys defending 2 times a year have fought cans when we look in the rear-view.
TheNatural
My Member!
Should we really be concerned with bad business right now by headliners fighting TOO much?
http://www.mma-manifesto.com/ufc-ppv-data/ppv-main/2011-year-in-review-ufc-ppv-buyrates.html
PS - Also noteworthy is Diaz's last fight finished 13 out of 16 PPV's last year. Edgar vs. Maynard finished dead last and he's main eventing the next PPV. Not good times for UFC.
maybe Dana is content with beating Vince and boxing outside of Pac and May for PPVs
Silva/Franklin I, Silva/Franklin II, Silva/Lutter, Silva/Hendo, Silva/Cote all did around 300k. The Silva PPV's that did big numbers had Shogun/Chuck, Penn/Florian, Penn/Edgar, and Forrest/Franklin as co-main or main events. Compare that to GSP who did 800k buys with fucking Struve/McCorkle as co-main.
Georges and Brock are the only "draws" in MMA. U mad, baby?
Sure, you can front load on title fights and destroy all your contenders in a year or two. What are you left with in the years after?
The UFC has to think long term and keep up the fan perception of having legitimate contenders. They have problems as it is with only 2 defenses in a year.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Does anyone else kind of feel robbed that we didn't get a real Vitor/Anderson match? I don't know how to feel about it. I can't decide if the ending was a fluke, or if Anderson would have ended the fight the same way every time.
TheNatural
My Member!
You list those co main events as if they carried the show. Forrest-Shogun was also on the Okami card, but somehow didn't carry it like Forrest-Franklin? You're just making up shit now.
And of course GSP draws more, on North american PPV. North American PPV = Canada. 30 million people watching Anderson Silva on TV in Brazil doesn't count except for more fans. Either way, saying he's not a draw when his PPV's are near the top of PPV buyrates every year is ridiculous. It may not be GSP level because of Canada, but it's the next best thing.
The numbers are what they are. Anderson hasn't popped a big buyrate unless he had a strong card around him. 117 and 126 were two of the best cards of 2010 and 2011 respectively. I'm giving him credit with UFC 101 despite the fact that Penn/Florian main evented that show and that BJ Penn was a great draw as Lightweight champion.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I want to see what happens if that kick misses.
TheNatural
My Member!
So Franklin and Griffin carried him, and all these other crap main events that you think meant something carried him, but other events with the same fighters in them that didn't do so well didn't? They were the same fucking fighters. How can Griffin-Franklin carry a card and Griffin-Shogun not? It makes no sense.
Then you say Penn-Florian carried him, but Penn-Edgar on the undercard of 112 did lower than Fitch-Alves on 117 of Silva cards?
I get it, you're trying to troll me since you think I'm some crazed Silva fan (which I'm not) like you are with GSP (which you are) because I have legit complaints about GSP AND Anderson fighting more. Lesnar is retired, so that leaves GSP and Anderson as the top draws for the US market, and that's a fact. GSP draws more in North America as a whole because of Canada, sure, they're both on equal footing in the US though at least, and at the very least Silva is still a huge draw for the UFC. To say otherwise is stupidity.
TheNatural
My Member!
Yup hence the "U mad" signature trolling quote.
How is someone constantly at the top of the UFC in buyrates not a huge draw? You don't have to be GSP or Lesnar numbers to be a huge draw. His last four fights drew over a total of 2.1 million buys, outside of Lesnar and GSP's numbers, who is higher?
I guess I live in a world considering all PPV's, and among all PPV's period, anyone not named Mayweather, Pacquaio, Wrestlemania, or GSP in the future doesn't do better. To me, that's pretty huge.
For a rational person, there is simply no denying that Anderson Silva is a questionable PPV draw.
In 2011, if you give him a strong matchup (Belfort) and supporting cast, he has shown the ability to draw well.. (725k for UFC 126)
In contrast, Silva carrying a show on his own, apparently results in 335k buys. (Okami).
Let's not kid ourselves. For comparison, when has a GSP fight EVER had such a low buyrate?
Answer: UFC 58, March 2006. 300k buys, Six years ago, for GSP/Penn I, in which he was the co-main to Franklin/Loiseau. (next closest was 400k buys for GSP/Serra I, April 2007, UFC 69)
In recent times, GSP carried the GSP-Hardy fight, with an admittedly solid co-main, scoring 850k buygs, and GSP/Kos, with absolutely ZERO draw otherwise, and sold 800k.
I don't even know what we're arguing about at this point.
Fact #1: GSP is the number one active draw on the UFC roster.
Fact #2: It is the UFC itself which has some serious soul-searching to do on its business plan and booking strategy.
You think Canada accounts for 400k PPV buys? Please.
TheNatural
My Member!
For a rationale person who knows there are 40 or so major PPV events each year among boxing, WWE, and UFC - that person knows outside of Pacquaio, Mayweather, Wrestlemania, and a GSP event - Silva draws on average more than anything else. If being #5 among 40 events or so is questionable then I don't know what to tell you.
TheNatural
My Member!
Did I say 400K? It doesn't have to be 400K. 2011 GSP did 800K, Silva did 725 K vs. Vitor. Safe to say Canada probably made up more than 75K. And the Okami event later in the year while all buyrates were down, was also during a time when a lot of the US East Coast had no power due to a hurricane.
Welcome to MMA-GAF?
Jeez, I am a GSP fan but I exaggerate it for the purpose of MMA-GAF. If I'm a fanatical fanboy of anyone it's Shogun but nobody except Ninja Scooter ever trolls Shogun so it doesn't come up.
TheNatural
My Member!
And that's why he should be doing more to fight and not sit on his ass.
See how I go full circle?
And then we go back to how it's the UFC's fault in their bookings, and, injuries aside, he hasn't really been fighting less than any other champs, and you're all a bunch of douches for singling him out over any other UFC champion not named "Jon Jones in 2011". I can quote myself over the past two pages, if you're too damn lazy to go back and read.
I really hate repeating myself, folks.
TheNatural
My Member!
And then I post again about how GSP and Anderson are different than other fighters because they are draws, other guys aren't, and can dictate how often they want to fight and Dana would never say no to that, when if it's Edgar, Aldo, or anyone else they don't give a fuck because they're all interchangeable.
EDIT:
Actually, I can see how that conversation would go:
GSP: "Dana put me on a card 3 months from now, I want to fight"
Dana: "Sorry Georges, I don't want your 800K buyrates quite yet. Lets wait until the end of the year another 7 months because I gotta see if you fight Johnny Hendricks or Josh Koscheck a third time. That's more important than me making money. Oh I gotta call you back, I have to send this certified letter to Vadim as an official apology and get ready to market the next UFC/M-1 card. Ciao."
TheNatural
My Member!
There's no one good left for him to fight whether he fights two times a year or four times a years so what's the difference?
TheNatural
My Member!
Because using your best draws to fight more rather than less is better for business? How is that suicide.
Okay, so I WILL go over the past two years again, then.
GSP/Hardy. Feb 2010. GSP ready to fight whenever next.
The UFC chooses to put GSP and Kos on TUF, thus putting a hold on the WW title. GSP's next defence is delayed for no fucking reason other than TUF and Spike interests. NOT GSP's FAULT.
Next fight is GSP/Shields. 4 months later. Reasonable gap.
Next. UFC has no credible challenger to GSP. Fucks around a bit, decides that Diaz is the only credible challenger, and has to pull him from SF just to make it happen. Booked for October. 6 month gap. But again, blame appears to lay with the UFC's fuckery.
GSP then injured, and from then until now, there is no point in bitching because the dude has a blown ACL.
ok say Frankie defends against Bendo
and then fights 2 more times versus the likes of Jim Miller, Nate Diaz, Pettis or whoever? 155 is so deep any match makes sense and progresses the division forward.
I think 155# and 170# are so deep that 3 title fights a year works.
See, now you're just tempting fate.
When Frankie gets injured in April, I'm blaming you, yacobod :-/
TheNatural
My Member!
That's your problem. You think the UFC forces things. Tito and Chuck were supposed to fight again off of TUF and it didn't happen. You think if GSP wanted to just fight and fight twice instead of once and being on TUF that wouldn't have happened? You think if after GSP beat Shields he says to Dana "put me on a card three months from now" he says no?
If GSP had the initiative he could fight more ,that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he's ducking fights UFC is offering him, I'm saying he's made it his choice to let the matchmakers lazily dictate what comes to him instead of demanding faster fights.
You're completely ignoring the way the UFC chooses title contenders. Jon Jones told Dana he was ready to fight asap and instead of putting him on the March PPV, they booked it for April in order for his opponent to be ready.
You're making the whole process seem as simple as the champion demanding a fight while ignoring that they first require a credible contender.
That's like a QB being on pace for 60 TDs after week 1.
Not that I really want to look to boxing as any sort of example, but the two greatest PPV draws in combat sports are Manny and Floyd.
Manny fought twice a year in 2011, 2010, and 2009. three times in 2008, twice in 2007.
Floyd, once in 2011, once in 2010, once in 2009, no 2008, once in 2007, twice in 2006.
For the top draws, there might be something to be said for not overexposing them.
You run out of viable contenders when you don't have time to build them, resulting in dwindling buys and less people giving a shit. How long do you think people will shell out money 3-4 times a year to watch stars crush unknowns? It's bad enough as it is and a short sighted business strategy.
TheNatural
My Member!
They play fast and loose with this all the time though. Yes, there are times when that happens, but they often give guys the option to fight again regardless of what is going on. Like Anthony Pettis opting to fight again and lost his title shot because he lost to Clay Guida.
At every press conference someone always asks 'whats next' and Dana always gives the same answer - it depends on what the guy wants to do if he wants to take off or fight. Like with Overeem, JDS is waiting, both guys had relatively easy fights, and UFC canned an upcoming PPV in Montreal because they couldn't find a headliner. I think there's no doubt in my mind if Overeem wasn't taking off, that's where the ittle bout would have been. Instead he's dictating when he wants his fight and it's probably going to be late summer now, as ridiculous as that is.
Yes, absolutely. It is clear over the course of the Spike deal that Spike had a LOT of sway in terms of coaches matchups for ratings purposes. No way UFC puts so many titles on hold for so long otherwise.
How many years does this work? Eventually you hit the bottom of the barrel. The UFC is in this for the long-haul and the system is designed to keep credible contenders rising to the top this year and every year.
I'll agree that it's absolute bullshit that Overeem/JDS hasn't been booked yet. I just don't think you can't point the finger right at Overeem, it doesn't seem so clear.
That's still a case of Junior Dos Santos having to wait until the winner of Alistair/Brock was determined and that's what I keep coming back to. After GSP beat Alves in July 2009, there wasn't a contender determined until November 2009 and of course the #1 contender needs time to recover and get ready for the title fight. That's the kind of shit that comes along with combat sports.
TheNatural
My Member!
What do you mean bottom of the barrel? Edgar vs. Maynard was the WORST buyrate of all 16 PPV's last year. That's 16 of 16 bud. That means no one gave a flat fuck who the contender was, or even who the champ was. The last thing UFC has to worry about there is keeping "credible contenders" for the fight. More like they just have to find a place period to put that kind of fight on because it's not headline material yet.
Which is why I think Silva and GSP should be fighting four times a year. The more they fight, the stronger undercard you can put together and the more people will watch those guys as well. Edgar/Bendo vs. whoever on the Silva-Sonnen card, or even Aldo which would make more sense, would be great for those lower divisions. I think the last thing they need to be worrying about is overexposing those divisions, if anything thats just exactly what they need to be doing by putting them as co-main event on huge GSP/Silva/Bones cards.
TheNatural
My Member!
It was a month difference though. I'm sorry, you're not going to sell me *if* GSP said I want to fight in 3-4 months Dana sit there and told him "no no no sorry Georges, we don't want you as a headliner ... by golly, we have to see if Dan Hardy or Mike Swick is next, so we'll wait until then!"
Of course, I think in UFC's typical matchmaking fashion they do wait on their own, i'll give you that. Are you going to tell me GSP makes any effort whatsoever to fight more though? I've never heard Dana once mention that and he says that about a lot of guys. Hell he was saying Koscheck wanted to fill in for the FOX card to face Maia of all people and then fight a week later! I give the guy credit for that. You never hear the same shit about GSP.
Oh, FOUR times a year. So we bypass three, and land firmly in "does not fucking happen"-fantasy-land.
i do think Natural is bringing up some good points.
I don't think the UFC can sustain 16 pay-per-views a year without cards and buyrates suffering. It's think it's too much to ask of fans to shell out $880 a year if they are buying every card. I think they should seriously cut it down to 12 ppvs per year, and move 4 of them to the free FOX cards.
Another possibility is the sport peaked with brock-mania at UFC 100 and it's going to either maintain this level or slowly decline over time.
I don't think the UFC can sustain 16 pay-per-views a year without cards and buyrates suffering. It's think it's too much to ask of fans to shell out $880 a year if they are buying every card. I think they should seriously cut it down to 12 ppvs per year, and move 4 of them to the free FOX cards.
Another possibility is the sport peaked with brock-mania at UFC 100 and it's going to either maintain this level or slowly decline over time.
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll