Stipe definitely has the skillset to give Cain trouble. Solid hands with a D1 wrestling base along with the grinding wrestler mentality. Something both JDS and Big Foot (lol) didn't have. But then again he got pieced up by Struve of all people.
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UFC 188: Champion vs Champion |OT| Fake Mexicans
- Thread starter Chesskid1
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Stipe definitely has the skillset to give Cain trouble. Solid hands with a D1 wrestling base along with the grinding wrestler mentality. Something both JDS and Big Foot (lol) didn't have. But then again he got pieced up by Struve of all people.
Jest Chillin
Member
What? Just because Cain drops the belt that doesn't magically make the rest of the division better. HW is still a relatively awful division. It doesn't matter who holds the strap because more than half these dudes are going to gas worse than Cain did tonight by the second round when they're not at elevation.
HW at this point is good for KO's and the occasional slugfest (when both dudes have a decent chin). That's it.
PaulKersey
Member
So glad Can Velasquez got destroyed in every aspect of the fight. Love seeing the altitude excuses. I knew they would come, and they have. But I guess only one fighter fought at altitude. Sea-level Cain is GOAT, right guys?
Freaking baddest man on the planet and he can't even go 2 minutes.
EDIT: Also SUPER happy the HW belt can be fought for more than once every decade since the new champ isn't made of glass.
Freaking baddest man on the planet and he can't even go 2 minutes.
EDIT: Also SUPER happy the HW belt can be fought for more than once every decade since the new champ isn't made of glass.
strikeselect
You like me, you really really like me!
Tonight proved that DC > Cain. And Jon Jones would've made short work of Cain in a hypothetical super fight.
Arlovski vs Werdum for the title would be so odd. After all the hype about "new breed HWs". I'm thinking JDS KTFO Werdum again in a rematch and we have a Rock Paper Scissors situation in the heavyweight division. Cain-Werdum-JDS. Well... Until Bones comes back, moves up and smashes all of them of course.
Arlovski vs Werdum for the title would be so odd. After all the hype about "new breed HWs". I'm thinking JDS KTFO Werdum again in a rematch and we have a Rock Paper Scissors situation in the heavyweight division. Cain-Werdum-JDS. Well... Until Bones comes back, moves up and smashes all of them of course.
He fought 1 time in 2010, 1 time in 2011, and 1 time in 2013. 2 times in 2012 and 2014. He's also 37 years old. I'm sure he will fight more than Cain, but he isn't going to be a super active champion.
Cain gave no excuses did you see the presser? He acknowledged several times that Werdum was better.
I really don't understand the hate for Cain.
PaulKersey
Member
No, it doesn't make the rest of the division better. It makes the rest of the division look better. The strap is on an elite jiu jitsu practitioner with solid striking as opposed to... some guy with decent cardio. (well, most of the time)
Apparently, HW is also good for subs. Who woulda thunk it?
Jest Chillin
Member
So what you're saying is being a top level BJJ guy in the division is objectively better than being a top level wrestler in the division. Because Cain isn't just cardio and has never been just cardio. He out wrestles his opponents and grinds them down. Werdum has a run of wins but it's late in his career in a weak HW division. This doesn't at all make the division look better. It just makes it look like no one is clearly dominant. Which, when the majority of HW fights are boring fights where the winner is the guy who didn't gas first, is not a net positive.
Yes, Werdum getting a guillotine in this fight retroactively makes the entire division a source for high level submission wins. /s
I missed the entire card. I spent the entire night with a gorgeous blonde who's just my lovable neighbor now. This must be what getting old is like. Many of u would gouge your eyes out for a glimpse of her, but I'm just counting the weeks until I leave the country. My life has changed so much, but so much for the better. PEACE.
I'll admit that HW divisions have always been my least favorite, but (possibly) my favorite submission ever came from UFC HW:
...and that's despite me being a longtime fan of the nogueiras.
Edit: and to address the rest of your post, Cain's MMA wrestling is crap. He proved that much tonight when he put himself in prime position to get guillotined by a guy who has won most of his fights by submission.
Jest Chillin
Member
I'll admit that HW divisions have always been my least favorite, but (possibly) my favorite submission ever came from UFC HW:
...and that's despite me being a longtime fan of the nogueiras.
And that's great. But Mir, Rothwell, Werdum, and Struve don't counter the fact that Nelson, Jordan, Arlovski, Dos Santos, Gonzaga, Crocop, Mitrione, Miocic, and Hunt are not, in all liklihood, going to start subbing opponents left and right. Definitely not just because the champ is a high level BJJ practitioner. I'd argue that would make guys even less inclined to take it to the mat.
Getting caught when going for a weak double leg while gassed doesn't make his wrestling crap. Nobody he's fought has outwrestled him. You can argue that technique in that moment was poorly executed but you can't expect a fighter perform perfectly in every moment of every fight. By that logic, the moment Werdum gets caught in a sub, his previous BJJ performances instantly become crap because he got caught. It makes no damn sense.
Le_Samourai
Banned
If Werdum fights like that against JDS, he is getting KO again.
Maintenance
Member
After Cain vs JDS 3 I'm never betting on JDS again.
Grenouille
Member
Dont forget that our new undisputed champion has also submitted Big Nog.
lol He was so embarrassed.
TheKaeptain
Banned
TrumanBurbank
Member
AH YES. The guy who looked like shit against Stipe is going to beat up Werdum.
Sure.
The old JDS is gone bro. Cain took his soul
SRTtoZ
Member
Just watched Cain vs Werdum and am VERY glad that Werdum won it. I was tired of everyone making Cain out to be the best HW ever seen, so yea I'm happy.
Enjoy
LOL I want to tweet Rockhold all of a sudden.
Enjoy
And finally from tonight...
LOL I want to tweet Rockhold all of a sudden.
JasonUresti
Member
That is completely untrue. Other than a couple good left straights Fedor controlled and out landed Crocop in the stand up game and had Mirko wobbled at a couple points.
Yeah, he outstruck Mirko 125-63. Mirko did well with his jab, but Fedor landed way heavier shots. Voxpop is just throwing a fit that Cain is officially a can and not the HW goat. Don't worry about it.
RBelong2Us
Member
Arvloski can legit knock out Werdum or anyone else at HW for that matter.
Just watched the fight and damn Werdum dominated Cain the entire fight. If he didn't get the guillotine, he would definitily get a knockout on Cain.
Cain was in really bad shape, he didn't show anything to deserve the victory tonight. I was surprised that he went for third round, he was already in really bad shape, Werdum beat the crap out of him.
Cain was in really bad shape, he didn't show anything to deserve the victory tonight. I was surprised that he went for third round, he was already in really bad shape, Werdum beat the crap out of him.
juliushandle
Member
JDS fought a very different Werdum. He was just a grappler, Werdum now has the best striking in the division. His chin seems to have improved as he took Hunt and Cain's best shots and recovered fine. Werdum is 37 though and father time could come as soon as his next fight.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I find it interesting how some grappling specialists are able to make the adjustment and become decent/good strikers while others are just lost. I think a lot of people had high hopes for Roger Gracie. That maybe with really solid coaching he would be able to get to where Jacare is now. A guy, who like Werdum has been able to make that adjustment.
Sato Koiji
Member
Got Cain in the rematch.
Prepared wrongly and I blame his very long layoff. Cain can beat Werdum without a doubt. It was just bad timing for him and good timing for Werdum.
I miss Freddy Lenko.
Prepared wrongly and I blame his very long layoff. Cain can beat Werdum without a doubt. It was just bad timing for him and good timing for Werdum.
I miss Freddy Lenko.
Sevket-Erhat
Member
I am really really upset that Cain lost but I am sure he will be back
some of these comments... cain fake? werdum having the best striking in the division. wtf.
firstly, overeem and cro cop and jds have better striking than werdum, however werdum's size and reach is what makes him so effective. cain was slow, foot movement wasn't there. also cain being fake... he was outclassed last night, no one can deny that, it was a highly impressive performance from werdum, but cain has beat jds twice, bigfoot twice, big nog, lesnar, rothwell. hardly fake.
firstly, overeem and cro cop and jds have better striking than werdum, however werdum's size and reach is what makes him so effective. cain was slow, foot movement wasn't there. also cain being fake... he was outclassed last night, no one can deny that, it was a highly impressive performance from werdum, but cain has beat jds twice, bigfoot twice, big nog, lesnar, rothwell. hardly fake.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
I should have committed. One of my posts before the fight was going to be "Werdum is the champion we deserve but not the one we need" but I deleted it. In nerdchat I was bringing up that Werdum has a chance to win. Of course Cain is going to look like shit after a 2 year layoff and fighting in altitude.
Werdum's resume of wins:
Einemo
Mike Kyle
Brandon Vera
Mike Russow
Aleks Emelianenko
Overeem
Gabe Gonzaga x2
Bigfoot
Big Country
Hapa Browne
Mark Hunt
BIG NOG
FEDOR
Cain
You can make an argument he's the G.O.A.T. heavyweight.
Fuck a rematch. I want to see Werdum-Arlovski 2 and/or Werdum-Dos Santos 2
WHAT YEAR IS THIS.jpg
Nate Diaz throws shade on young Pettis, "the Game", and fuckboy Alvarez
http://youtu.be/nz8BSrMG4c0
#sodisrespectful
http://youtu.be/nz8BSrMG4c0
#sodisrespectful
Lightning Count
Member
Great fight, but I wish people would stop making excuses for Cain he got beat fair and square.
Icewear Vezzo
Banned
Man heavyweight division is so trash.
juliushandle
Member
Overeem, JDS, and Crocop having better striking than Werdum? Crocop isn't even relevant, Overeem post drug testing hasn't been the same, and JDS is a great boxer but Werdum is far different from when they fought. Look at Werdum vs Browne again and tell me he isn't the best striker now.
Hoping-
Werdum vs Arlovski
JDS vs Stipe
Cain vs Rothwell
Hunt vs Browne
Nelson vs Barnett
Hoping-
Werdum vs Arlovski
JDS vs Stipe
Cain vs Rothwell
Hunt vs Browne
Nelson vs Barnett
I've been seeing this all over. Mind explaining it? Cain is humble as can be, and made no excuses for losing. What is this "fake" nonsense?
parrotbeak
Member
I was speaking on a technical level and stand by my original statement, those fighters I mentioned have better striking than werdum. Even cro cop, though I will agree he is irrelevant now. make no mistake, in no way am I saying werdum isn't a decent striker, he's improve greatly and is very effective, but it comes down to his body type/size/reach etc. he uses his tools very well.
Werdum Reach: 77"
Cain Reach: 77"
Jones Reach: 84.5"
Please stop making excuses for Cain. He didn't make any.
I was never overly impressed with Overeems striking. He has a great clinch, knees and a decent leaping left hook. He's an underrated grappler if anything. Hell 85% of his wins have come by submission.
JDS has solid boxing but its not elite by any means. Id say even Stipe has better hands than him which is why he did so well.
Werdum has a wide array of strikes and he's a beast of a man. Not to mention his exceptional grappling along with his massive size.
Cain's bobblehead routine and reliance on cardio could only last him so long which we saw last night. I see Werdum beating any version of Cain. Stipe will probably be Werdums toughest fight if they make that fight but even so I don't give him a huge chance.
JDS has solid boxing but its not elite by any means. Id say even Stipe has better hands than him which is why he did so well.
Werdum has a wide array of strikes and he's a beast of a man. Not to mention his exceptional grappling along with his massive size.
Cain's bobblehead routine and reliance on cardio could only last him so long which we saw last night. I see Werdum beating any version of Cain. Stipe will probably be Werdums toughest fight if they make that fight but even so I don't give him a huge chance.
parrotbeak
Member
I'm not making excuses for Cain. I am just imagining how different the fight would have been if Cain could transfer his mind into a healthy body, like in the new Ryan Reynold's movie Self/Less.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
mmazurkiewicz
Member
Lol. That Forrest Griffin segment was beautiful.
For real though, if anyone seriously believes that Werdum is a large heavyweight please look up the stats of the rest of the division. Just to highlight the top ten ranked:
JDS: 6'4", 77"
Stipe: 6'4", 80"
Arlovski: 6'4", 77"
Browne: 6'7", 80"
Barnett: 6'3", 78"
Hunt: 5'10", 74"
Rothwell: 6'4", 79"
Reem: 6'4", 80"
Mir: 6'3", 79"
Werdum has a reach deficit to 6 of them while tying 2 and beating 1
Werdum is the same height as 5 of them while at a deficit to one and beating 3
Werdum is at a weight disadvantage to all of them save for being comparable to Browne
He's average sized for the division -- if not below average.
juliushandle
Member
Nate turned down a fight with Matt Brown.
Sad, he had so much promise and was such a gamer after TUF. Now he feels entitled like his brother Nick.
Is it just me or does a lot of the Cain hate seem to be thinly veiled racism? The guy is one of the most humble fighters in the UFC yet there is always strong hate for him.
Over the past few days, all I'm reading is posts talking about him being a fake Mexican, how he's a racist (because brown pride and white pride are obviously the same), people saying they're going to eat some tacos to celebrate him losing, etc.
Over the past few days, all I'm reading is posts talking about him being a fake Mexican, how he's a racist (because brown pride and white pride are obviously the same), people saying they're going to eat some tacos to celebrate him losing, etc.
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