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[tonysidaway]

Maybe I'm completely wrong so feel free to correct me, but isn't 6yo a little young to know you're trans? I would think that's a far too complicated subject for such a young child to grasp.

Some kids gravitate towards a particular form of self expression and that includes gender cues. At that age it isn't complicated. My generation had kids who were called tomboys and nancies because they didn't fit one straitjacket or the other. Nowadays we have a law that protects those kids' human rights.

 

[Zaphrynn]

Maybe I'm completely wrong so feel free to correct me, but isn't 6yo a little young to know you're trans? I would think that's a far too complicated subject for such a young child to grasp.

Isn't 6 years old a little young to be having transgender issues for a child?

When I was as young as 4 or 5, I knew I was a girl. Did you know you what gender you are at that age? Same thing for young trans kids.

For some people, whether it has to do with being trans, gay, etc, they won't actually realize they are until much later because society overall pushes a very cis and hetero norm. I have a friend who never realized she was bi until she was 30, and part of that is because straightness is pushed down your throat from every angle. Also, some people realize things and learn things about themselves slower than others, regardless of their environment.

 

[tomtom94]

And of course the media interview the parents who pulled their child out of school, not the other way around. Because every fucking thing has to be about the feelings of cis people.

P.S. Been a while since I read the Bible but I am 99% certain it does not mention transgender people at all so you being against them isn't Christian it's just you being hateful, spiteful pricks.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

ahahaha

My catholic school took everyone in - Muslim, Protestant, Sikh, whatever - and didn't give a fuck. We still had Catholic R.E. classes of course, and my blatant falling out with the idea of religion from about Year 9 made it the only subject where the teachers hated my guts and I wasn't in the top class for

Spoiler

not a humblebrag, I did terribly at college and only passably in uni

. But overall it was a laissez-faire Catholic school. I realise that's probably rare, of course.

Eh, my secondary school was like that. Hell, our R.E. classes taught about Islam and Hinduism too. Pretty useful actually for interacting with people from around the world, I've found.

I suppose it depends on what cultural strain of Catholicism you get.

 

[daveo42]

Then you explain it to them. What's the difficulty here?

Being Transphobic.

 

[appaws]

ahahaha

My catholic school took everyone in - Muslim, Protestant, Sikh, whatever - and didn't give a fuck. We still had Catholic R.E. classes of course, and my blatant falling out with the idea of religion from about Year 9 made it the only subject where the teachers hated my guts and I wasn't in the top class for

Spoiler

not a humblebrag, I did terribly at college and only passably in uni

. But overall it was a laissez-faire Catholic school. I realise that's probably rare, of course.

No actually, I would say that is the norm. Enrollments would drop too far if they actually cared about Catholic social teaching.

 

[RipperGrim]

Their kid was confused so instead of educating him and letting him learn they just removed him from the situation? Their argument is on the sames lines as "I'm not racist but..."

 

[Misha]

Maybe I'm completely wrong so feel free to correct me, but isn't 6yo a little young to know you're trans? I would think that's a far too complicated subject for such a young child to grasp.

Isn't 6 years old a little young to be having transgender issues for a child?

No. When I was around 4, a bunch of my memories involved trying out different gender stuff... and my parents being super worried about what that would do to my development. They shamed me and shut that down and it took nearly 20 years for me to feel comfortable exploring it again. Its more likely that the children know what they're doing with regards to their own identity than their parents do

 

[groansey]

Firstly, obviously fuck that stupid bigotted family. But, if I had a 6 year old son who identified as a girl or just wanted to cross-dress, they could wear what hey wanted around the house... but I would probably not send them to a British primary school in a dress, given I have an ounce of awareness of what British society is like. Also, there is gender-neutral clothing out there, that would avoid this situation whilst not restricting the child to any specific gender-sterotyping.

And if you think a six-year-old wanting to wear a dress is a concrete signifier of anything more than "this six-year-old wants to wear a dress" then I raise my eyebrows because I'd still say that could go either way when they get a little older. Six year olds don't know shit about anything, even themselves. They're six. They are not mature.

 

[Ketkat]

And if you think a six-year-old wanting to wear a dress is a concrete signifier of anything more than "this six-year-old wants to wear a dress" then I raise my eyebrows because I'd still say that could go either way when they get a little older. Six year olds don't know shit about anything, even themselves. They're six. They are not mature.

I knew I was trans at that age as well. And others in here have said they did as well. Trust me, kids know more than you think.

 

[Auctopus]

If you actually read the release from the school, it's not even a huge change in the classroom. These Gaffers popping up saying "aren't they a bit young?" should see the child has decided they want to dress as a girl sometimes and be referred to with a girl's name - she's not going in for a sex change.

It literally doesn't matter. It's only these parent's religious views that have caused this huge issue - the school, church and presumably the other parents were all ready to carry on with the child's education.

Instead we have two children who most likely had no issue with the change now out of school/their social circle and are being taught by their parents' views instead of learning for themselves.

 

[JonathanEx]

Here's the interview from Radio 4 this morning: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05frflf

Just from listening you can tell a lottttt about the parents. They're really darting around the issue, they're just going "oh, uh, it's, difficult, the, clothes, uh, but, uh, from, our, as a christian, uh". They really can't get beyond "confused". Their confusion is the reason to stop it. Christ, the mum even says "it was just accepted" as if it's a bad thing, and says gender confusion should be dealt with in private.

Also it pretty much exposes that regardless of this child (whose gender status isn't made clear, the boy has come in a dress some days), it's not about a 6 year old being able to tell, I'm pretty safe in thinking these parents are just transphobic, that there are just boys and girls. Oh and they describe it as an agenda, fuck those pricks.

Oh and when the presenter raises risk of suicide and self harm and how those are higher in young trans people, "I don't believe that's the case, I don't believe it's because they're not accepted. I don't believe people are bullying those children in any shape or form".

Nigel's an ignorant fuck.

 

[Ekai]

Maybe I'm completely wrong so feel free to correct me, but isn't 6yo a little young to know you're trans? I would think that's a far too complicated subject for such a young child to grasp.

Nah. I knew around that age too. Lots of trans individuals do. Not all but a good amount.

 

[mclem]

Isn't 6 years old a little young to be having transgender issues for a child?

Louis Theroux did a documentary - Transgender Kids - which included one who was five.

(An excellent documentary, on that note)

 

[Sianos]

remember when schoolyard bullies used to torment gender non-conforming individuals by saying "you're not a reeeeeeal man/woman"

now they're saying "you are undeniably a man/woman and i will not let you identify as anything else... and also you're still not a reeeeeeal man/woman"

it was never about the bullies "not being able to understand" or "having their waspy sensibilities offended" - it was always about hurting other people perceived as easy targets

 

[Platy]

remember when schoolyard bullies used to torment gender non-conforming individuals by saying "you're not a reeeeeeal man/woman"

now they're saying "you are undeniably a man/woman and i will not let you identify as anything else... and also you're still not a reeeeeeal man/woman"

it was never about the bullies "not being able to understand" or "having their waspy sensibilities offended" - it was always about hurting other people perceived as easy targets

"hey little girl" said the bully to the kid.
And the bully was right, as a girl the kid grew
"hey you are a man" said the bully to the woman, now grown up.
Bullies will be bullies, don't matter what they say

 

[MartyStu]

The real issue here is that we all want to be different, but we all want to be treated equally.

It's a paradox and it's impossible. Society soesn't work like that.

Oh boy. What are you doing my man?

 

[Mr Git]

ahahaha

My catholic school took everyone in - Muslim, Protestant, Sikh, whatever - and didn't give a fuck. We still had Catholic R.E. classes of course, and my blatant falling out with the idea of religion from about Year 9 made it the only subject where the teachers hated my guts and I wasn't in the top class for

Spoiler

not a humblebrag, I did terribly at college and only passably in uni

. But overall it was a laissez-faire Catholic school. I realise that's probably rare, of course.

Mine didn't. My primary did - actually it was unusually ethnically diverse for the town I live in, but my catholic secondary was about 99% white and wholly grim. In year 7 they spent 1 RE lesson going, these are the other religions we have to show you them by some abhorrent law but they are heathens. Luckily I was a cynic before I even went to high school. All roman catholicism for the entire time. I came out with a G for RE 'cause I spent the entire exam talking about Tidus, Yuna and Yemen. Was playing FFX at the time.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Mine didn't. My primary did - actually it was unusually ethnically diverse for the town I live in, but my catholic secondary was about 99% white and wholly grim. In year 7 they spent 1 RE lesson going, these are the other religions we have to show you them by some abhorrent law but they are heathens. Luckily I was a cynic before I even went to high school. All roman catholicism for the entire time. I came out with a G for RE 'cause I spent the entire exam talking about Tidus, Yuna and Yemen. Was playing FFX at the time.

Wouldn't be surprised if there's a correlation with the ethnic diversity of the school/area. My schools - both primary and secondary - were fairly diverse (as is the town in general), and the church they were both associated with was big on leaning into the multicultural and global aspects of the faith. Hearing hymns in tagalog made for an interesting midnight mass, that's for sure.

 

[Mr Git]

Wouldn't be surprised if there's a correlation with the ethnic diversity of the school/area. My schools - both primary and secondary - were fairly diverse (as is the town in general), and the church they were both associated with was big on leaning into the multicultural and global aspects of the faith. Hearing hymns in tagalog made for an interesting midnight mass, that's for sure.

At primary I'd sometimes sit with my muslim friends at the back of the assembly hall as they got out of singng he's got the whole world in his hands 500 times a week. My town wasn't really remotely diverse until maybe a decade ago, but yeah my primary was unusually so, it was brilliant.

 

[Takuan]

It seems like the parents did the school and its students a favor here, so I don't see the fuss.

 

[Syder]

lol this is exactly what I imagined they'd look like

Well done to the presenter to calling them out

'Vulnerable to what?'

 

[tonysidaway]

It seems like the parents did the school and its students a favor here, so I don't see the fuss.

They plan to sue the school for permitting children to choose whether or not to wear a dress.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Firstly, obviously fuck that stupid bigotted family. But, if I had a 6 year old son who identified as a girl or just wanted to cross-dress, they could wear what hey wanted around the house... but I would probably not send them to a British primary school in a dress, given I have an ounce of awareness of what British society is like. Also, there is gender-neutral clothing out there, that would avoid this situation whilst not restricting the child to any specific gender-sterotyping.

And if you think a six-year-old wanting to wear a dress is a concrete signifier of anything more than "this six-year-old wants to wear a dress" then I raise my eyebrows because I'd still say that could go either way when they get a little older. Six year olds don't know shit about anything, even themselves. They're six. They are not mature.

I actually have a six year old and its about the time they start identifying and noticing the diffrent sexes.

They are also interacting more with peers and being influenced by them (like what toys are "cool" and for "little kids").

It would not suprise me at all for a six year old to be aware at that stage that they are not fitting the norm for their birth sex.

I can understand the desire to suppress this (for sake of the kid and bullying) but you would be amazed at what a six year old can take in and process at that age. They may not fully understand all the social issues but they know what they are.

 

[Takuan]

They plan to sue the school for permitting children to choose whether or not to wear a dress.

And they'll hopefully be laughed out of court.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

It's really none of their business what another child is wearing. If the school and the other child's parents aren't making a big scene, then why are they?

Their kid, if asking these questions or feeling uncomfortable, is the victim of child abuse because they've been brought up to be that way.

 

[Ravensmash]

And of course the media interview the parents who pulled their child out of school, not the other way around. Because every fucking thing has to be about the feelings of cis people.

P.S. Been a while since I read the Bible but I am 99% certain it does not mention transgender people at all so you being against them isn't Christian it's just you being hateful, spiteful pricks.

I mean, the parents interviewed are the ones being reactionary here.

They're being interviewed because their actions are being viewed as extreme.

What purpose would interviewing the other parents serve?

They've done nothing newsworthy in the eyes of the media and that's good!

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

lol this is exactly what I imagined they'd look like

Well done to the presenter to calling them out

'Vulnerable to what?'

Cersei and Jamie have hit hard times.

 

[Icedburden]

Maybe I'm completely wrong so feel free to correct me, but isn't 6yo a little young to know you're trans? I would think that's a far too complicated subject for such a young child to grasp.

Isn't 6 years old a little young to be having transgender issues for a child?

It is. Of course this opinion is extremely 'edgy' to some, but do people really think a 6 y/o child is able to fully grasp this type of subject matter?
No. It's not possible.
I am NOT trying to stir the pot either, although I'm sure someone will link some crackpot study that says otherwise.

Once the brain has matured a bit more past the point of Paw Patrol being high-brow entertainment, sure do whatever you wish. I'm all for MATURE ADULTS making decisions on whoever the hell they want to be.

But a 6 y/o? No.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

It is. Of course this opinion is extremely 'edgy' to some, but do people really think a 6 y/o child is able to fully grasp this type of subject matter?
No. It's not possible.
I am NOT trying to stir the pot either, although I'm sure someone will link some crackpot study that says otherwise.

Once the brain has matured a bit more past the point of Paw Patrol being high-brow entertainment, sure do whatever you wish. I'm all for MATURE ADULTS making decisions on whoever the hell they want to be.

But a 6 y/o? No.

Icedburden
I'm a giant fucking idiot.
If I complain about this tag, tell me to grow up.

.

 

[AtomskEater]

I'm really not that sure it is that confusing for children. My friend's kid is trans and my other friends' kids all just said ok and carried on. It's easy peasy when the parents aren't twats.

Yep, kids are sponges, as long as you're willing to explain to them they're willing to accept basically anything. I'm assuming the parents basically don't want to have to talk about it, so they pull their kid out of the school. Uh, that's one way to handle it I guess.

 

[Icedburden]

.

I love my tag, so thank you.
Also, it'd be nice if you would actually add to the discussion.

 

[old manatee]

I mean, that is going to confuse a six year old no question, and the bullying policy is ridiculous.

At this age kids are not taught about this sort of thing, what a mess.

Good thing that kid was pulled out of school before he accidentally learned something.

 

[Takuan]

It is. Of course this opinion is extremely 'edgy' to some, but do people really think a 6 y/o child is able to fully grasp this type of subject matter?
No. It's not possible.
I am NOT trying to stir the pot either, although I'm sure someone will link some crackpot study that says otherwise.

Once the brain has matured a bit more past the point of Paw Patrol being high-brow entertainment, sure do whatever you wish. I'm all for MATURE ADULTS making decisions on whoever the hell they want to be.

But a 6 y/o? No.

It's the position most of society would default to, for what it's worth. I've got some reservations about early hormone treatment for the exact reason you've stated, but I don't really see a huge problem with a biological male kid wearing a skirt if they feel like it.

As an aside, this feels like a clickbait-y article that only exists to upset progressively-minded people *and* conservatives alike.

 

[Ketkat]

I love my tag, so thank you.
Also, it'd be nice if you would actually add to the discussion.

There have been multiple trans people in this thread that prove you wrong. So I don't know why you think kids can't know anything about their gender identity

It's the position most of society would default to, for what it's worth. I've got some reservations about early hormone treatment for the exact reason you've stated, but I don't really see a huge problem with a biological male kid wearing a skirt if they feel like it.

As an aside, this feels like a clickbait-y article that only exists to upset progressively-minded people *and* conservatives alike.

There is no "early hormone treatment". At best, kids get puberty blockers around when puberty starts. A 6 year old doesn't take anything, they just change socially.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

I love my tag, so thank you.
Also, it'd be nice if you would actually add to the discussion.

You already admitted that you won't listen to any science someone posts as it's 'crackpot' so what's the point of anyone engaging you? You already basically stated your mind is made up and even science won't change it, don't know what to tell you, mate.

 

[Misha]

I love my tag, so thank you.
Also, it'd be nice if you would actually add to the discussion.

You mean this "discussion"?

I am NOT trying to stir the pot either, although I'm sure someone will link some crackpot study that says otherwise.

🤔
Smart to preemptively protect yourself from authoritative sources that you might disagree with

 

[Christine]

I love my tag, so thank you.
Also, it'd be nice if you would actually add to the discussion.

I mean, there's nothing to add. Your post consists of a rhetorical question that you answer, an assertion without evidence or argument, and a preemptive dismissal declaring that any evidence that rebuts your conclusion is "crackpot". There's nothing to engage with in your post and it contains neither information or value.

 

[Takuan]

There is no "early hormone treatment". At best, kids get puberty blockers around when puberty starts. A 6 year old doesn't take anything, they just change socially.

Right. I don't think that's much better, given how experimental all treatment to date has been:

The Endocrine Society’s guidelines suggest starting puberty blockers for transgender children when they hit a stage of development known as Tanner stage 2 — usually around 10 or 11 years old for a girl and 11 or 12 years old for a boy. The same guidelines suggest giving cross sex hormones — estrogen for transgender girls and testosterone for transgender boys — at age 16. However, doctors caution that estrogen and testosterone, the hormones that are blocked by these medications, also play a role in a child’s neurological development and bone growth.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/a...ion-medical-risks-are-both-known-and-unknown/

It's an older article, so things may have changed.

 

[Alcotholic]

Kids are going to purposefully Misgender others, because we are still in an age where they are taught there is only one sexual orientation and two genders and you are always going to be your gender.
It's great the school is respectful to the students there. It's too bad this was a teachable moment wasted.

 

[Ekai]

It is. Of course this opinion is extremely 'edgy' to some, but do people really think a 6 y/o child is able to fully grasp this type of subject matter?
No. It's not possible.
I am NOT trying to stir the pot either, although I'm sure someone will link some crackpot study that says otherwise.

Once the brain has matured a bit more past the point of Paw Patrol being high-brow entertainment, sure do whatever you wish. I'm all for MATURE ADULTS making decisions on whoever the hell they want to be.

But a 6 y/o? No.

Having been trans and that young, you don't know what you're talking about at all.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

There have been multiple trans people in this thread that prove you wrong. So I don't know why you think kids can't know anything about their gender identity



There is no "early hormone treatment". At best, kids get puberty blockers around when puberty starts. A 6 year old doesn't take anything, they just change socially.

You already admitted that you won't listen to any science someone posts as it's 'crackpot' so what's the point of anyone engaging you? You already basically stated your mind is made up and even science won't change it, don't know what to tell you, mate.

I mean, there's nothing to add. Your post consists of a rhetorical question that you answer, an assertion without evidence or argument, and a preemptive dismissal declaring that any evidence that rebuts your conclusion is "crackpot". There's nothing to engage with in your post and it contains neither information or value.

Having been trans and that young, you don't know what you're talking about at all.

Someone just got owned.

 

[Icedburden]

It's the position most of society would default to, for what it's worth. I've got some reservations about early hormone treatment for the exact reason you've stated, but I don't really see a huge problem with a biological male kid wearing a skirt if they feel like it.

As an aside, this feels like a clickbait-y article that only exists to upset progressively-minded people *and* conservatives alike.

I don't see a problem either. But the people stating that six year olds truly understand what it means to be transgender really baffle me. They don't. Period.
Yes, they comprehend a girl who wants to be a boy or vice versa. But, and it's a big one, they don't understand the mental and physical processes that are taking place.

 

[RoyalFool]

What's even the point in having a Christian school if the law doesn't let them teach Christian beliefs?

Would love to see the complete removal of religion from schools and replaced with science and debate. It's 2017 for fucks sake.

 

[BossDarkseid]

I don't see a problem either. But the people stating that six year olds truly understand what it means to be transgender really baffle me. They don't. Period.
Yes, they comprehend a girl who wants to be a boy or vice versa. But, and it's a big one, they don't understand the mental and physical processes that are taking place.

So the trans people in this thread are lying?

Edit: forget it, think I misunderstood(?)

 

[Ekai]

I don't see a problem either. But the people stating that six year olds truly understand what it means to be transgender really baffle me. They don't. Period.
Yes, they comprehend a girl who wants to be a boy or vice versa. But, and it's a big one, they don't understand the mental and physical processes that are taking place.

No, we can comprehend just fine. Just like we comprehend the societal repercussions as well. We aren't stupid then nor are we now.

 

[commedieu]

Confusion is literally as bad as terrorism.

 

[MrCarter]

Interview on This Morming:

https://youtu.be/1nxuFqAr0Fw

 

[JayCB]

The parents are pretty fucking gross for using their kid to justify their own bias.

Also both the Batmans in this thread are fighting and it's tearing me apart. Dash seems to be the good Batman though and Iced seems to be living up to his tag.

 

[tonysidaway]

It's too bad this was a teachable moment wasted.

There was no teachable moment. A transgender kid was allowed to dress as she wanted, this "confused" the child of some bigots, so they withdrew him from the school and announced they were going to sue.

Bigots pull this crap all the time.