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[StayDead]

I didn't read that into your comments, no worries. I do think though, as I'm in the top 3% of earners, I can't really claim to be middle class anymore.

The threshold for this - £80k , is a shitload of money in almost all the country.

My Dad is now an IT Consultant and an expert in his field where he's worked for near 30 years. He's not even anywhere near 80k.

 

[Ashes]

Fundamentally, what we need is good sound economic polices regardless of whether you hold left, right, or centre ground.

Whilst I personally will be voting Labour this coming election, I don't see how a labour government can afford its manifesto. On the almost impossible chance that the Tories don't get a majority, I'd hope the left leaning parties can reign in some of the pledges.

 

[Praetorpwj]

Now imagine being a nurse earning no where near that much with the similar or worse working hours. Or a cleaner that has to be in work at 6am and leave at 8pm.

Again, if you worked that hard to get to that point - it's entirely by choice. If life genuinely was easier by earning less, just stop working that hard then.

Yes, it takes a huge amount of effort and initiative to jump on opportunities presented to you in order to get to that point, but not everyone gets those opportunities in the first place and still have to work as hard.

I would also recommend watching these videos if you have the time:

https://youtu.be/IuqGrz-Y_Lc

https://youtu.be/_Qd3erAPI9w

I work in the private sector and have on occasion exceeded £80k in the year (and still occasionally post on GAF!).

In general comparison between professions is pointless. Nurses work in a protected environment; they are one of the few professions with 'job for life' status. They retire on average with a £21k / year pension. A private pension pot paying an equivalent amount would be £500-£600k in value which would require a six figure annual contribution over the working life.

I have no protection; my job and earning power is constantly at risk. I have to retrain (generally at my own expense) and travel to find the better positions. A lot of what I earn goes into a pension and I don't lead an extravagant lifestyle (knocking around in a 10 year old Mazda 6!).

As you say I accept this lifestyle; it is mine by choice. But nurses have a choice also.

 

[Moze]

''100k a year isn't that much. Tax somebody else.''

''My friend lives in a 450k house but it's shit. Tax somebody else.''

''I live in London. Tax somebody else.''

All comments I have seen in here when tax increases get mentioned.

 

[hodgy100]

Baffles me that so many people seem to have difficulty understanding this. Labour doesn't have a monopoly on 'stuff working people like', it never has had. There have been working class Conservative voters ever since the working class got the vote. People differ. Mileage may vary.

no kidding!

Friend of mine called labour voters plebs the other day. He works part time at Asda and has 5 years of student debt.

its nuts!

 

[Pandy]

I work in the private sector and have on occasion exceeded £80k in the year (and still occasionally post on GAF!).

In general comparison between professions is pointless. Nurses work in a protected environment; they are one of the few professions with 'job for life' status. They retire on average with a £21k / year pension. A private pension pot paying an equivalent amount would be £500-£600k in value which would require a six figure annual contribution over the working life.

I have no protection; my job and earning power is constantly at risk. I have to retrain (generally at my own expense) and travel to find the better positions. A lot of what I earn goes into a pension and I don't lead an extravagant lifestyle (knocking around in a 10 year old Mazda 6!).

As you say I accept this lifestyle; it is mine by choice. But nurses have a choice also.

lol

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I work in the private sector and have on occasion exceeded £80k in the year (and still occasionally post on GAF!).

In general comparison between professions is pointless. Nurses work in a protected environment; they are one of the few professions with 'job for life' status. They retire on average with a £21k / year pension. A private pension pot paying an equivalent amount would be £500-£600k in value which would require a six figure annual contribution over the working life.

I have no protection; my job and earning power is constantly at risk. I have to retrain (generally at my own expense) and travel to find the better positions. A lot of what I earn goes into a pension and I don't lead an extravagant lifestyle (knocking around in a 10 year old Mazda 6!).

As you say I accept this lifestyle; it is mine by choice. But nurses have a choice also.

If you really earn £80k on average, you're doing something wrong because what you're describing doesn't add up.

Are you hoping/planning to retire in your fifties?

 

[Spuck-uk]

Someone on £100k already pays over £34k in tax, with an effective tax rate of 34.22%. Compare that to someone on £20k who pays 15.6%.
As much as you want to think otherwise, these are generally people that have worked damn hard to get where they are. Years of schooling and effort. They aren't necessarily the 'well connected' Eton types or trust fund kids. This is a policy which disincentives aspiration IMO.
If you want to target the truly rich, then target wealth. Not income. People who are wealthy are not salaried. People on the Times Rich List don't go through PAYE.
Steve Jobs was paid $1 a year. I guess that means no tax for him.
That's why I think it's 'bonkers'.

Bless your innocence.

There are fucking tonnes of people who have worked damn hard to get where they are, and are on 20k a year. My fiance for one, has two degrees, a masters, and is just about to complete her PHD, all while working 2-3 jobs at the same time and writing books on her field in her spare time.

Meanmwhile, I know a complete halfwit of an Eton Boy who fell straight from his 3rd class degree into an executive position in a bank.

'Aspiration' is the best trick the rich and well connected played on the working and middle classes.

 

[Moosichu]

I work in the private sector and have on occasion exceeded £80k in the year (and still occasionally post on GAF!).

In general comparison between professions is pointless. Nurses work in a protected environment; they are one of the few professions with 'job for life' status. They retire on average with a £21k / year pension. A private pension pot paying an equivalent amount would be £500-£600k in value which would require a six figure annual contribution over the working life.

I have no protection; my job and earning power is constantly at risk. I have to retrain (generally at my own expense) and travel to find the better positions. A lot of what I earn goes into a pension and I don't lead an extravagant lifestyle (knocking around in a 10 year old Mazda 6!).

As you say I accept this lifestyle; it is mine by choice. But nurses have a choice also.

You are completely correct, they do, and record numbers are leaving the profession. Would you rather have a bit more money to save or someone who is available to look after you the next time you are sick? Don't forget that if society does provide a basic safety net for everyone - if something drastic happens that destroys your savings, you won't get completely left in the lurch.

Paying more taxes is not a zero-sum game, it ensures that we can take many things for granted that we wouldn't otherwise have to. You don't have to pay for fire-brigade insurance, private security, healthcare costs - that's ignoring things like roads and other infrastructure which just wouldn't work without the public sector to build them.

 

[Spuck-uk]

I'm sorry, but someone on £100k/annum is highly unlikely to have any spare time to spend £30k on anything they like. To be earning that level of salary in the private sector, you will be at director level or equivalent, which huge amounts of responsibility and accountability, typically constant travelling away from home and excessive working hours, with absolutely no point to ever 'switch off' - it's 24/7 level of pressure, stress and responsibility. You won't be seeing your kids often. People work damn hard - past present and future - to get to that kind of salary and definitely wouldn't be posting on GAF right now like you and me. No company gives away £100k/annum to someone without expecting blood in return.

My friend and old flatmate is a director in a big multinational. He rarely works over 35 hours a week, and works from home two days of the week. He's on over 100k/year not including ~20% bonus every year since he started.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Someone on £100k already pays over £34k in tax, with an effective tax rate of 34.22%. Compare that to someone on £20k who pays 15.6%.
As much as you want to think otherwise, these are generally people that have worked damn hard to get where they are. Years of schooling and effort. They aren't necessarily the 'well connected' Eton types or trust fund kids. This is a policy which disincentives aspiration IMO.
If you want to target the truly rich, then target wealth. Not income. People who are wealthy are not salaried. People on the Times Rich List don't go through PAYE.
Steve Jobs was paid $1 a year. I guess that means no tax for him.
That's why I think it's 'bonkers'.

Yeah, those high paying jobs often come through knowing someone and having lots of connections. Networking is hard work though, having to deal with shitty people to get your foot in the door.

And when I say shitty people, I mean real shitty people who causally treat women like objects, causal racism, lots of questionable opinions that you just have to nod along and not question because to question them to see yourself back on the outside...

 

[Praetorpwj]

lol

Not sure why I am bothering to respond to this piece of lazy idiocy but nursing is probably one of the most clearly defined paths you can take both in terms of remuneration benefits and career progression. As such any decision to become a nurse should be quite informed.

 

[King_Moc]

Not sure why I am bothering to respond to this piece of lazy idiocy but nursing is probably one of the most clearly defined paths you can take both in terms of remuneration benefits and career progression. As such any decision to become a nurse should be quite informed.

I find it amazing that someone would look at the nursing profession and think about it purely in terms of 'benefits and career progression'. Yeah, I'm sure that's why everyone gets into it.

 

[War Peaceman]

I work in the private sector and have on occasion exceeded £80k in the year (and still occasionally post on GAF!).

In general comparison between professions is pointless. Nurses work in a protected environment; they are one of the few professions with 'job for life' status. They retire on average with a £21k / year pension. A private pension pot paying an equivalent amount would be £500-£600k in value which would require a six figure annual contribution over the working life.

I have no protection; my job and earning power is constantly at risk. I have to retrain (generally at my own expense) and travel to find the better positions. A lot of what I earn goes into a pension and I don't lead an extravagant lifestyle (knocking around in a 10 year old Mazda 6!).

As you say I accept this lifestyle; it is mine by choice. But nurses have a choice also.

You aren't really in any real risk thought, if you do earn as much as you say. Also, nurses and medical professions have a far more important job than you, I suspect.

You are right that it has a clear and defined path plus excellent job security but the pay is not good relative to stress.

 

[Praetorpwj]

If you really earn £80k on average, you're doing something wrong because what you're describing doesn't add up.

Are you hoping/planning to retire in your fifties?

No chance! Wouldn't particularly want to anyway. £80k is not average, probably about 30% of the time.

The car thing is a bit of a hair shirt; I just don't like spending money on cars (on finance or not).

Seriously though my wife is a financial advisor specialising in pensions; for a private pension the pot amount you need for any sort of reasonable retirement (with a moderate allowance for future proofing) on current rates is pretty horrendous.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Yeah, those high paying jobs often come through knowing someone and having lots of connections. Networking is hard work though, having to deal with shitty people to get your foot in the door.

And when I say shitty people, I mean real shitty people who causally treat women like objects, causal racism, lots of questionable opinions that you just have to nod along and not question because to question them to see yourself back on the outside...

You have to deal with that shit as part of badly paid jobs too. My mate, a plumber, recently quit his job because of exactly this.

 

[Praetorpwj]

I find it amazing that someone would look at the nursing profession and think about it purely in terms of 'benefits and career progression'. Yeah, I'm sure that's why everyone gets into it.

I thought we were talking about tax and remuneration and making informed choices? At no time did I refer to motivation. Nurses are essential; so are people in the private sector creating tax revenue to pay nurses.

Feel fee to randomly change the discussion whenever you feel like it however..

 

[Theonik]

My Dad is now an IT Consultant and an expert in his field where he's worked for near 30 years. He's not even anywhere near 80k.

I mean it's all relative. Bottom of the pile software jobs pay 45-50k. Can do £75k in a couple of years of experience. Hell I know people that got grad jobs at 70. It's all relative and people that think it's all a result of hard work are simply out of their minds.

I also find the idea that progressive taxation is demoralising really weird. After all most of salary progression is either a result of an employer trying to retain you or poaching. At that point for an offer to be convincing it needs to be significant *after tax* I wouldn't take a new position otherwise and people wouldn't bother offering. That's priced into the market.

 

[Praetorpwj]

You aren't really in any real risk thought, if you do earn as much as you say. Also, nurses and medical professions have a far more important job than you, I suspect.

You are right that it has a clear and defined path plus excellent job security but the pay is not good relative to stress.

Thanks for the assumptions about me. Clearly not the thread to participate in!

 

[hodgy100]

I mean it's all relative. Bottom of the pile software jobs pay 45-50k. Can do £75k in a couple of years of experience. Hell I know people that got grad jobs at 70. It's all relative and people that think it's all a result of hard work are simply out of their minds.

its less than that unfortunately

 

[Moosichu]

I thought we were talking about tax and remuneration and making informed choices? At no time did I refer to motivation. Nurses are essential; so are people in the private sector creating tax revenue to pay nurses.

Feel fee to randomly change the discussion whenever you feel like it however..

The problem is, that under the current system, nurses are leaving the profession. I'm not trying to advocate for any particular solution, but can you at least acknowledge there is a problem that needs solving.

I'm also interested to hear what you think the solution is as well. My personal opinion is just that the NHS needs a cash injection, and any increases monetary costs will more than pay for themselves in the long term. As a money-starved healthcare system leads to people out of work more often, whether by dying more, less able to get treatment, more mental health issues, or simply increased stress due to the uncertainty a flaky healthcare system has - which in turn just leads to a massive drain on the economy which is far larger than what it would cost to actually fund the healthcare system.

If that cash injection requires a tax increase, than it is necessary IMO, as the lack of taxation is then essentially a health deficit which will come back to bite everyone in due course if it is not addressed.

 

[DiGiKerot]

I mean it's all relative. Bottom of the pile software jobs pay 45-50k. Can do £75k in a couple of years of experience. Hell I know people that got grad jobs at 70. It's all relative and people that think it's all a result of hard work are simply out of their minds.

Even that all depends on where you live quite significantly - you'd be lucky to get a job in software paying north of £45k even with a decade of experience in some of the more Northern parts of the country.

 

[jelly]

The problem is, that under the current system, nurses are leaving the profession. I'm not trying to advocate for any particular solution, but can you at least acknowledge there is a problem that needs solving.

I'm also interested to hear what you think the solution is as well. My personal opinion is just that the NHS needs a cash injection, and any increases monetary costs will more than pay for themselves in the long term. As a money-starved healthcare system leads to people out of work more often, whether by dying more, less able to get treatment, more mental health issues, or simply increased stress due to the uncertainty a flaky healthcare system has - which in turn just leads to a massive drain on the economy which is far larger than what it would cost to actually fund the healthcare system.

If that cash injection requires a tax increase, than it is necessary IMO, as the lack of taxation is then essentially a health deficit which will come back to bite everyone in due course if it is not addressed.

This is true. Something like cutting of Mental Health support basically shifts the burden to the police for example who then can't go after the real bad people because they are swamped with more mental health cases. A lot of these cuts in the NHS and other sectors just balloons into much bigger problems elsewhere, you can't get away from it. The solution is to nip it in the bud were you best can and the government isn't doing it and only puts even more pressure on other services while cutting those too. It's a disaster of epic proportions waiting to and is happening.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

its less than that unfortunately

Significantly so here in the midlands. A junior software engineer position is more like £20,000, and there are very few positions like that actually available (which is presumably why they can offer such a low salary).

 

[War Peaceman]

Thanks for the assumptions about me. Clearly not the thread to participate in!

Dude if you frequently earn 80k a year you aren't in any risk, though. Unless you splurge your money up the wall. How am I wrong here?

 

[Praetorpwj]

The problem is, that under the current system, nurses are leaving the profession. I'm not trying to advocate for any particular solution, but can you at least acknowledge there is a problem that needs solving.

I'm also interested to hear what you think the solution is as well. My personal opinion is just that the NHS needs a cash injection, and any increases monetary costs will more than pay for themselves in the long term. As a money-starved healthcare system leads to people out of work more often, whether by dying more, less able to get treatment, more mental health issues, or simply increased stress due to the uncertainty a flaky healthcare system has - which in turn just leads to a massive drain on the economy which is far larger than what it would cost to actually fund the healthcare system.

If that cash injection requires a tax increase, than it is necessary IMO, as the lack of taxation is then essentially a health deficit which will come back to bite everyone in due course if it is not addressed.

Completely agree about the cash injection. The social care crisis has placed intolerable pressure on the NHS which was not factored into the budget calculation; this needs to be urgently addressed.

I am not even adverse to a tax hike as outlined by Labour's as yet unofficial manifesto however as others have stated a better tax recovery should be addressed at settled (stagnant) wealth rather than income. I simply make the point that public and private working needs to be in balance. The public sector needs an aggressive entrepreneurial private sector to earn the tax revenue it needs to thrive.

 

[Pandy]

Not sure why I am bothering to respond to this piece of lazy idiocy but nursing is probably one of the most clearly defined paths you can take both in terms of remuneration benefits and career progression. As such any decision to become a nurse should be quite informed.

That was my exact thought when I typed "lol", but I felt it was more honest to post my reaction than let it slide.

I mean, what was your argument there, exactly? That we shouldn't feel sorry for nurses because they aren't slaves and can exercise freewill?
I doubt most nurses allow the financial considerations to be uppermost in their mind when they go down that path, as they'd be more likely to take a similar wage in a much less challenging retail/service sector job instead.

We need nurses, and no matter what any individual chooses to do for their profession we will still need somebody to be nurses. That being the case, do you think we should properly reward the people who 'choose' to fill that role?

 

[Spaghetti]

This last page and a half has been a real... interesting read.

 

[hodgy100]

Significantly so here in the midlands. A junior software engineer position is more like £20,000, and there are very few positions like that actually available (which is presumably why they can offer such a low salary).

yeah fortunately its a touch better than that in sheffield but entry positions are in the lower 20's for sure.

 

[Spuck-uk]

I mean it's all relative. Bottom of the pile software jobs pay 45-50k. Can do £75k in a couple of years of experience. Hell I know people that got grad jobs at 70. It's all relative and people that think it's all a result of hard work are simply out of their minds.

I also find the idea that progressive taxation is demoralising really weird. After all most of salary progression is either a result of an employer trying to retain you or poaching. At that point for an offer to be convincing it needs to be significant *after tax* I wouldn't take a new position otherwise and people wouldn't bother offering. That's priced into the market.

Bottom of the pile software jobs pay ~20k. Graduates still get screwed over for the first 2-3 years.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Even that all depends on where you live quite significantly - you'd be lucky to get a job in software paying north of £45k even with a decade of experience in some of the more Northern parts of the country.

There are plenty of software jobs up north paying over £45k. Outside of city jobs in London, I've found the wages pretty comparable between London and Merseyside, though I do work in a pretty niche area.

Earning 45k most parts of the North is farrrrr better than earning 60k in London in terms of quality of life and how far that money will get you.

 

[Theonik]

Even that all depends on where you live quite significantly - you'd be lucky to get a job in software paying north of £45k even with a decade of experience in some of the more Northern parts of the country.

I thought we already established the country exists in a state that nothing outside the M25 actually exists. Even then, lowest paid grad positions I'd seen up north are 25k. In London it's impossible to hire developers at less than 50k these days. And you have to offer some pretty good benefits on top.

 

[hodgy100]

I thought we already established the country exists in a state that nothing outside the M25 actually exists. Even then, lowest paid grad positions I'd seen up north are 25k. In London it's impossible to hire developers at less than 50k these days. And you have to offer some pretty good benefits on top.

not in my industry i think id be lucky to get 35k if I were to go for a job in London

 

[TimmmV]

I mean it's all relative. Bottom of the pile software jobs pay 45-50k. Can do £75k in a couple of years of experience. Hell I know people that got grad jobs at 70. It's all relative and people that think it's all a result of hard work are simply out of their minds.

I also find the idea that progressive taxation is demoralising really weird. After all most of salary progression is either a result of an employer trying to retain you or poaching. At that point for an offer to be convincing it needs to be significant *after tax* I wouldn't take a new position otherwise and people wouldn't bother offering. That's priced into the market.

I agree with you on your other points, but that is not an accurate portrayal of general salaries in software jobs. I've seen some "bottom of the pile" ones advertised as low as £16k a year.

It is however, a fairly safe bet as a career with a salary that is usually fairly comfortable

I thought we already established the country exists in a state that nothing outside the M25 actually exists. Even then, lowest paid grad positions I'd seen up north are 25k. In London it's impossible to hire developers at less than 50k these days. And you have to offer some pretty good benefits on top.

Standard Java graduate job in Manchester is £20k-£22k, its remained fairly constant for the last 5ish years too

 

[DiGiKerot]

There are plenty of software jobs up north paying over £45k. Outside of city jobs in London, I've found the wages pretty comparable between London and Merseyside, though I do work in a pretty niche area.

Earning 45k most parts of the North is farrrrr better than earning 60k in London in terms of quality of life and how far that money will get you.

I don't consider Merseyside to be particularly North, honestly!

You are right that the differences in general living expenses makes it way less rough to a degree, though.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The thing with London isn't even the higher wages per se - I agree that the lower cost of living elsewhere can more than make up for that. It's the advancement opportunity. If you want a better salary, the best way to do it is move on or move up. That requires either a new position to be created, or an existing one to be vacated. Vacations happen at approximately the same rate everywhere, but the creation of new positions is strongly tied to regional growth. Most of the UK has seen little to no growth since 2008(!!), and the figures are held up by London which has seen relatively good growth. If you stay in London for 15 years, you advance up the pay-scale faster, which means you can then get a better salary outside of London if you choose to leave because you've had more experience and more senior positions, compared to staying outside London and perhaps having initially a better quality of life but struggling to get up the ladder because companies aren't growing and you don't get offered that senior position.

 

[jimbobsmells]

And when I say shitty people, I mean real shitty people who causally treat women like objects, causal racism, lots of questionable opinions that you just have to nod along and not question because to question them to see yourself back on the outside...

While I agree, it's not confined to those jobs. Guess you've not been around many building sites. It's everywhere Miles.

 

[StayDead]

Significantly so here in the midlands. A junior software engineer position is more like £20,000, and there are very few positions like that actually available (which is presumably why they can offer such a low salary).

See this is the thing, it's exactly the same as in London. 20-25k for entry level jobs.

It's why it's so hard to live here.

 

[hodgy100]

See this is the thing, it's exactly the same as in London. 20-25k for entry level jobs.

It's why it's so hard to live here.

yeah thats what ive heard from friends too :/

The thing with London isn't even the higher wages per se - I agree that the lower cost of living elsewhere can more than make up for that. It's the advancement opportunity. If you want a better salary, the best way to do it is move on or move up. That requires either a new position to be created, or an existing one to be vacated. Vacations happen at approximately the same rate everywhere, but the creation of new positions is strongly tied to regional growth. Most of the UK has seen little to no growth since 2008(!!), and the figures are held up by London which has seen relatively good growth. If you stay in London for 15 years, you advance up the pay-scale faster, which means you can then get a better salary outside of London if you choose to leave because you've had more experience and more senior positions, compared to staying outside London and perhaps having initially a better quality of life but struggling to get up the ladder because companies aren't growing and you don't get offered that senior position.

yeah i pretty much have to move to london to advance my career. I'm pretty lucky in that I can actually do that.

 

[Little Old Man]

Can't wait for the masses to once again not realise we have a marginal tax system over the coming days.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

The song playing in the background prior to the Labour manifesto launch is "All together now" on a loop.

"All together now,
all together now,
all together now,
in no-man's land"

Sums up the state of the Labour Party right now.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

The song playing in the background prior to the Labour manifesto launch is "All together now" on a loop.

"All together now,
all together now,
all together now,
in no-man's land"

Sums up the state of the Labour Party right now.

They've already had it pointed out to them several times that this might not be the best song considering the circumstances, but they persist.

 

[boxoctosis]

The song playing in the background prior to the Labour manifesto launch is "All together now" on a loop.

"All together now,
all together now,
all together now,
in no-man's land"

Sums up the state of the Labour Party right now.

By The Farm? Worst band ever. I couldn't vote for a party that uses The Farm as a soundtrack.

 

[Audioboxer]

In the mail today

Policy? PANIC BOUT DAT INDYREF2. (use a black and white picture of Sturgeon too, cause, optics and imagery, Ruth in colour!)

Also, a shade is thrown at Corbyn to try and say Labour "support" Scottish independence and therefore make the Tories the Unionist party.

Corbyn obviously reacting to that

Jeremy Corbyn has denied supporting a second Scottish independence referendum, claiming that ”mischievous misreporting" had twisted his words.

Corbyn received a furious response from parts of the Scottish Labour party after saying on Saturday he was ”absolutely fine" with the idea of a new referendum taking place.

”If a referendum is held then it is absolutely fine, it should be held," he said. ”I don't think it's the job of Westminster or the Labour party to prevent people holding referenda."

The Scottish Labour leader, Kezia Dugdale, made it clear she opposed this, while Jackie Baillie, a Labour member of the Scottish parliament called the comments ”an insult".

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ies-backing-second-scottish-independence-vote

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

No sympathy for Scotland here. The SNP persisted with independence after the referendum, the natural conclusion was that the Tories would gain a foothold.

 

[Par Score]

Nothing like seeing the top 5% of earners winge about a bit of extra tax.

I'm sorry, but someone on £100k/annum is highly unlikely to have any spare time to spend £30k on anything they like.

This might be my favourite sentence ever written.

Woe is the life of the rich, constantly beset by Brewster's Millions style challenges to spend their money quick enough. Have some empathy for their cruel plight, their money won't spend itself you know!

Someone on £100k already pays over £34k in tax, with an effective tax rate of 34.22%. Compare that to someone on £20k who pays 15.6%.
As much as you want to think otherwise, these are generally people that have worked damn hard to get where they are. Years of schooling and effort.

Yep, nobody who ever put in years of effort or worked damn hard ended up earning £20k a year. That absolutely never happens.

We live in a just world where the work you put in directly correlates to the rewards you receive, so if you earn less money you clearly worked less hard. Tax is theft.

 

[Audioboxer]

No sympathy for Scotland here. The SNP persisted with independence after the referendum, the natural conclusion was that the Tories would gain a foothold.

Mainly because Brexit is a steaming pile of shit. I've always said if Scotland managed to take England out of the EU even although England voted to remain you can bet your boots many English would be pissed.

I love how it says "Theresa May as Prime Minister will stand up for Scotland's place in the UK". So much for standing up for the UK's place in the EU.

 

[Kotetsu534]

The thing with London isn't even the higher wages per se - I agree that the lower cost of living elsewhere can more than make up for that. It's the advancement opportunity. If you want a better salary, the best way to do it is move on or move up. That requires either a new position to be created, or an existing one to be vacated. Vacations happen at approximately the same rate everywhere, but the creation of new positions is strongly tied to regional growth. Most of the UK has seen little to no growth since 2008(!!), and the figures are held up by London which has seen relatively good growth. If you stay in London for 15 years, you advance up the pay-scale faster, which means you can then get a better salary outside of London if you choose to leave because you've had more experience and more senior positions, compared to staying outside London and perhaps having initially a better quality of life but struggling to get up the ladder because companies aren't growing and you don't get offered that senior position.

This is exactly my thinking in prioritising London during my job search. My earnings over the next couple of years won't be anything special - in fact I'll undoubtedly be poorer in real terms than I would've been staying at home. But the skills I'll gain and opportunities I'll have there are likely to be much more valuable in the medium term, I reckon. Once I'm up the totem pole, I don't need to stay there.

 

[King_Moc]

Yep, nobody who ever put in years of effort or worked damn hard ended up earning £20k a year. That absolutely never happens.

We live in a just world where the work you put in directly correlates to the rewards you receive, so if you earn less money you clearly worked less hard. Tax is theft.

Yep, all those years of schooling curing cure idiocy, it seems. Or even just the ability to empathise.

I love how it says "Theresa May as Prime Minister will stand up for Scotland's place in the UK". So much for standing up for the UK's place in the EU.

To be fair, she did do that. She just won't mention it now in case it affects her promotion.

 

[Audioboxer]

Yep, all those years of schooling curing cure idiocy, it seems. Or even just the ability to empathise.



To be fair, she did do that. She just won't mention it now in case it affects her promotion.

The remain campaign led in England was pretty garbage. So much "politcs" around politics with parties not willing to unify, and even people like Corbyn saying he was for the EU but acting like he gave zero shits.

"Career politicianing" around a decision this large garners very little respect as well. Using the population as chess pieces to line your bank balance/further your career is a scummy move as an MP, let alone a PM.

UK politics is often garbage (especially in recent years) and I don't think you can blame some of us for not wanting to be part of it anymore.