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[jelly]

If was pretty empty, same old stuff if you've followed politics at all. She got grilled on Education, NHS, snooze fest Independence, Brexit. She seemed to do okay, had informed replies here and there, repeated the same old and dodged some stuff for the manifesto on Tuesday.

 

[Faddy]

If was pretty empty, same old stuff if you've followed politics at all. She got grilled on Education, NHS, snooze fest Independence, Brexit. She seemed to do okay, had informed replies here and there, repeated the same old and dodged some stuff for the manifesto on Tuesday.

Andrew Neil thought he could bludgeon Sturgeon with a few headline figures. Didn't work because Sturgeon has a handle across all SNP policy and can throw back other figures that muddy the waters.

Neil seemed underprepared and quite petty when it came to arguing about nurse's pay being higher in Scotland. Tried to take an example where pay was closest, Nicola blows him out the water with the pay gap at the lowest scale and highlights that progression up the pay grades has been maintained in Scotland.

 

[Faddy]

BBC headline straight onto "SNP would work with Labour" when Nicola Sturgeon never said that.

 

[Real Hero]

BBC headline straight onto "SNP would work with Labour" when Nicola Sturgeon never said that.

here we go again. Jeremy 'Jon Snow' Corbyn is going to work with the wildlings!!!

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Totally not biased though.

 

[jelly]

BBC headline straight onto "SNP would work with Labour" when Nicola Sturgeon never said that.

That's a complete lie. Wow.

 

[pulsemyne]

Rumours are that behind the scenes knives are being sharpened against those who are running the tory campaign. The blame game has begun.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

She said she'd work with progressive parties, but Corbyn is a bit useless.

The problem she's run into is that nobody really cares about "progressive versus conservative" in her patch right now - it is SNP or not SNP.

 

[PJV3]

Rumours are that behind the scenes knives are being sharpened against those who are running the tory campaign. The blame game has begun.

Seems a little early for that, they have been careless and assumed Corbyn would be a pushover, and thought they could do anything policy wise and win comfortably.

But it still might be a big win on the day anyway.

 

[JonathanEx]

Rumours are that behind the scenes knives are being sharpened against those who are running the tory campaign. The blame game has begun.

Well, what's more Theresa May then not taking responsibility for things under her duty, and finding someone else to blame and fire?

 

[Chris1]

Seems a little early for that, they have been careless and assumed Corbyn would be a pushover, and thought they could do anything policy wise and win comfortably.

But it still might be a big win on the day anyway.

In fairness so did everyone lol.

Labour came well prepared, a bit too prepared I'd say.. Feels like they expected a snap election to happen and planned for it months in advance.

 

[PJV3]

In fairness so did everyone lol.

Labour came well prepared, a bit too prepared I'd say.. Feels like they expected a snap election to happen and planned for it months in advance.

It's probably a result of being constantly under attack and battle hardened and campaigning to keep his job.

 

[JonathanEx]

In fairness so did everyone lol.

Labour came well prepared, a bit too prepared I'd say.. Feels like they expected a snap election to happen and planned for it months in advance.

I dunno.

It feels like this is mostly the Conservative's own doing. The manifesto didn't bomb and had interesting ideas, but I can't pretend it feels like Labour were driving the conversation. Corybn's issues have been baked in to the polling for a while now. But if it weren't for the Conservative's cockyness, May's inability to speak with people and the dementure tax, It'd be very different.

 

[Lo-Volt]

In fairness so did everyone lol.

Labour came well prepared, a bit too prepared I'd say.. Feels like they expected a snap election to happen and planned for it months in advance.

I'm pretty sure that was a contingency in the opposition party since Theresa May took office, actually. See also.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

In fairness so did everyone lol.

Labour came well prepared, a bit too prepared I'd say.. Feels like they expected a snap election to happen and planned for it months in advance.

There was never a revolt against Corbyn. It was all bait to lull the Tories into a false sense of security!

 

[Spaghetti]

BBC headline straight onto "SNP would work with Labour" when Nicola Sturgeon never said that.

Not unexpected. The BBC are pro-status quo in any case, and is currently stocked to the rafters with establishment types and quiet Conservatives. They've completely rolled over on presenting any kind of serious journalistic challenge to the Government out of fear of punishment.

 

[twofoldd]

Britain will be condemned to five more years of austerity under plans set out in the Tory manifesto, with “big cuts” in spending causing serious damage to public services, the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) has warned.

Theresa May’s vow to cut immigration to the “tens of thousands” also risks a £6bn hit to the public purse, the respected economic think tank said.

[...]

“For the Conservatives the big risk is that, after seven years of austerity, they would not be able to deliver the promised spending cuts either at all or at least without serious damage to the quality of public services.

“Their tight immigration targets would, if delivered, also damage the economy and the tax base.”

The IFS was equally scathing about Labour’s proposals, saying plans for tax hikes aimed at top earners and businesses may "not raise anything like" the £48.6bn.

[...]

Jeremy Corbyn’s blueprint for government would "raise spending to its highest level since the mid-1980s and tax to record levels in peacetime", he said.

“The Labour manifesto comes with two big risks. The first is that they might well not raise anything like the tax revenues they want from their proposed measures.

“The second is that some of the proposed tax increases, alongside the very big increase in the minimum wage, and other labour market regulation, would turn out to be economically damaging.

More here - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...dies-ifs-conservatives-election-a7756851.html

And here - https://election2017.ifs.org.uk/

Both choices seem poor to me. :\

 

[PJV3]

I really expected the Tories to throw cash around to make brexit seem successful, austerity on top of everything else seems like a recipe for shit to hit the fan.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

The Tories and the austerity will never end. If the Tories get in and there's more austerity, then they can pay for it out of their own pocket. Scum.

 

[jelly]

I really expected the Tories to throw cash around to make brexit seem successful, austerity on top of everything else seems like a recipe for shit to hit the fan.

That's why they want this election now so by the time people notice, you are stuck with them afterwards. Unless they completely backtrack on hard Brexit, it's going to be awful for public finances and less immigrants not paying into the pot doesn't help matters or cover the hole which I bet idiots will love to say the opposite. I feel they have some horrible future UK that serves them more than ever or something, I can't fathom why they are doing it otherwise, hard Brexit or any Brexit really. What great end game makes them chomp at the bit?

 

[PJV3]

That's why they want this election now so by the time people notice, you are stuck with them afterwards. Unless they completely backtrack on hard Brexit, it's going to be awful for public finances and less immigrants not paying into the pot doesn't help matters or cover the hole which I bet idiots will love to say. I feel they have some horrible future UK that serves them more than ever or something, I can't fathom why they are doing it otherwise, hard Brexit or any Brexit really.

Making life harder for the sake of it, I don't understand what is going on in the Conservative mind anymore.

 

[Ashes]

It's mostly making the most of it after realising your brand of politics isn't anything special. And more importantly you're as ignorant and reliant on actual expertise as the rest of us.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

To make them more money, and the immigration will stop when the UK becomes so bad nobody wants to live here.

 

[jelly]

Who makes bank from Brexit?

Corps who politicians are buddy with and a board position or stocks?

 

[comedian]

Who makes bank from Brexit?

Corps who politicians are buddy with and a board position or stocks?

Consultants and contractors that will be required during the negotiations and setting up the process of leaving the EU, since the civil service does not have the necessary expertise. Lobbyists, with the creation of new regulation and laws comes the opportunity to deregulate, or shape policy in a way that allows you to profit. Corporations with the inevitable tax cuts that will be coming their way (which will compound their good fortune with the weak pound making their profits look better since a majority of their business might be in the EU).

 

[KarneeKarnay]

How well are the conservatives doing? BBC polling still puts them in the lead, but Labor closing the gap.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

One of the Scottish papers has seen internal canvassing for the LDs in NE Fife, reporting the LDs in the lead by 5 points there - 35 LD, 30 SNP, 20 Tory.

Seems likely that some of the old LD Scottish Heartlands will swing back this election as the SNP are on the retreat.

 

[Pandy]

If was pretty empty, same old stuff if you've followed politics at all. She got grilled on Education, NHS, snooze fest Independence, Brexit. She seemed to do okay, had informed replies here and there, repeated the same old and dodged some stuff for the manifesto on Tuesday.

Your impartial BBC, there, spending time on irrelevant devolved issues to obfuscate the matter.

I get that Sturgeon doesn't want to be seen to be evading the questions, but she should be telling him simply that Scottish voters aren't voting on those issues in this election, and repeating that every time he asked a stupid question.

 

[Jezbollah]

How well are the conservatives doing? BBC polling still puts them in the lead, but Labor closing the gap.

A few weeks ago the spread on the Tories lead was around 15-20, now it's around 6-10. They've had a bad campaign, and Labour have done well.

The Tories will still win, mainly due to the UKIP vote defection, but Labour will do enough for Momentum/pro-Corbyn supporters to push for him to remain as leader.

 

[Theonik]

Unless Corbyn refuses to run, it is impossible to remove him I think. Corbyn is exactly what the membership wants.
Even if the party executives/MPs do not.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Unless Corbyn refuses to run, it is impossible to remove him I think. Corbyn is exactly what the membership wants.
Even if the party executives/MPs do not.

If the momentum he's gathered so far translates into a better GE performance than in 2015, then surely even most of the party will be swayed? I mean, one would hope... Fully expect plenty to say "he wasn't elected! see, unelectable, told you" but this being a snap election makes that feel a little off the mark.

 

[PJV3]

Unless Corbyn refuses to run, it is impossible to remove him I think. Corbyn is exactly what the membership wants.
Even if the party executives/MPs do not.

There's not much point dumping him pre Brexit anyway, if May ends up not increasing their majority by much then he should stay at least for a couple of years.

 

[Jezbollah]

Also remember that Corbyn has used this election to install a number of favourable (to him) candidates, including his son... If they get in he'll have more allies in the next PLP.

 

[D4Danger]

I personally hope the hardcore blairites fuck off and go make their own party like they keep threatening to do. I think this manifesto is the best thing Labour have done in years and even if/when Corbyn steps down it would be a real shame if they seized power again said "well that didn't work so the people clearly don't want it. let's go back to being Tory lite" (forgetting of course that that also didn't work)

 

[Monty Mole]

It's depressing that the definition of success for Corbyn and Labour is not letting the Tories increase their majority by much.

We're going to be stuck with the Tories forever aren't we. I'll keep banging my head against the wall so hard if Corbyn doesn't step down after a defeat.

Edit: I should say though, that the challenge to his leadership was pathetic. It was like a TGI Fridays chef being challenged by a couple of McDonald's kitchen workers, when what we really need is a Michelin starred chef.

 

[RedSparrows]

I personally hope the hardcore blairites fuck off and go make their own party like they keep threatening to do. I think this manifesto is the best thing Labour have done in years and even if/when Corbyn steps down it would be a real shame if they seized power again said "well that didn't work so the people clearly don't want it. let's go back to being Tory lite" (forgetting of course that that also didn't work)

But 'Blairites' won three elections.

Ad nauseum.

 

[Jezbollah]

I personally hope the hardcore blairites fuck off and go make their own party like they keep threatening to do. I think this manifesto is the best thing Labour have done in years and even if/when Corbyn steps down it would be a real shame if they seized power again said "well that didn't work so the people clearly don't want it. let's go back to being Tory lite" (forgetting of course that that also didn't work)

I don't think they have any other option tbh.

 

[OverBlood 3]

I personally hope the hardcore blairites fuck off and go make their own party like they keep threatening to do. I think this manifesto is the best thing Labour have done in years and even if/when Corbyn steps down it would be a real shame if they seized power again said "well that didn't work so the people clearly don't want it. let's go back to being Tory lite" (forgetting of course that that also didn't work)

Absolutely. People are mad to pass this up, I honestly think it'd turn this country around.

 

[PJV3]

It's depressing that the definition of success for Corbyn and Labour is not letting the Tories increase their majority by much.

The tories have Brexit and former UKIP voters on their side, it's just a bad situation to try and overcome.

 

[Maledict]

I personally hope the hardcore blairites fuck off and go make their own party like they keep threatening to do. I think this manifesto is the best thing Labour have done in years and even if/when Corbyn steps down it would be a real shame if they seized power again said "well that didn't work so the people clearly don't want it. let's go back to being Tory lite" (forgetting of course that that also didn't work)

A) Blair wasn't Tory lite. That's a ridiculous saying that is so far from the truth it's embarrassing. Go compare the 1997 labour manifesto the to conservative one. Do you really think the tories would have plotted money into the NHS and education like labour did? Blair's government was the most redistributive since the 60s!

B) telling moderates to leave is literally condemning the country to eternal Tory leave. Labour is a coalition like all parties, and shutting off the part of the party you need to win power is utterly bananas.

Let's not forget, the only way labour gets into number 10 is by persuading people who are currently voting Tory to vote Labour. That's it.

 

[Monty Mole]

A) Blair wasn't Tory lite. That's a ridiculous saying that is so far from the truth it's embarrassing. Go compare the 1997 labour manifesto the to conservative one. Do you really think the tories would have plotted money into the NHS and education like labour did? Blair's government was the most redistributive since the 60s!

B) telling moderates to leave is literally condemning the country to eternal Tory leave. Labour is a coalition like all parties, and shutting off the part of the party you need to win power is utterly bananas.

Let's not forget, the only way labour gets into number 10 is by persuading people who are currently voting Tory to vote Labour. That's it.

Indeed. The problem is Corbyn is preaching to the converted, albeit it seems during the last week also winning back a few defectors that had been temporarily taken in under Theresa's spell.

Corbyn isn't going to win over typical Tory voters, and indeed he's going to do the exact opposite. Tony Blair felt like a real breath of fresh air back in '97, truly centred and offering something for everyone. And the whole 'New Labour' PR was specifically aimed at typical Tory voters.

 

[D4Danger]

A) Blair wasn't Tory lite. That's a ridiculous saying that is so far from the truth it's embarrassing. Go compare the 1997 labour manifesto the to conservative one. Do you really think the tories would have plotted money into the NHS and education like labour did? Blair's government was the most redistributive since the 60s!

B) telling moderates to leave is literally condemning the country to eternal Tory leave. Labour is a coalition like all parties, and shutting off the part of the party you need to win power is utterly bananas.

Let's not forget, the only way labour gets into number 10 is by persuading people who are currently voting Tory to vote Labour. That's it.

I'm not saying Blair was Tory lite but there's been a real sense that the only way to win elections is with that approach (as you said, the thinking is you need to appeal to the current Tory vote which is creeping further and further right). Corbyn is the first Labour leader in god knows how many years that has just gone for it. Even when he launched that manifesto there was talk that it was what Ed wanted to do but knew he couldn't. I think Labour have to be more positive about the things they want because as we've seen recently it does get through. I'm not sure it will this time because there's not enough time and brexit is the big question hanging around but going forward I would much rather they kept on this path than retreated into safe territory which makes it harder for anyone to distinguish them.

Also I'm not talking about moderates. I think it's undeniable that there's a contingent of Blairites (we'll just go with the name) that would rather seen Labour lose so they can oust Corbyn than try and win and that to me is unforgivable. I see Blair pop up every few weeks for the sidelines and keeps stirring the pot with talk of a new party which all just adds to this image of Labour being a spent force (which is very much how we started the election). I think the turnaround in the polls if it carries through to results will have a massive impact of the future direction of the party now. I think the message is getting through and people aren't as cynical as we believe them to be.

I will say that if the future of Labour is literally pandering to the worst Tory voter then just shut it down. I don't care.

 

[Faddy]

One of the Scottish papers has seen internal canvassing for the LDs in NE Fife, reporting the LDs in the lead by 5 points there - 35 LD, 30 SNP, 20 Tory.

Seems likely that some of the old LD Scottish Heartlands will swing back this election as the SNP are on the retreat.

It is unlikely that will be repeated elsewhere. Basically the same as the Scottish parliament election where the other parties poured all their resources into only one or two seats

 

[Acorn]

Rumours are that behind the scenes knives are being sharpened against those who are running the tory campaign. The blame game has begun.

Crosby has got his knighthood, he doesn't give a shit.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

The people you need to take from the Conservatives are the socially liberal, very centrist Tories. Of the Ken Clarke kind. There are not that many of them but enough of them do exist. Blair was successful in forcing the Conservatives to moderate or die. That's why Cameron pushed through things like gay marriage despite the large amount of hostility to it within his own party.

Brexit has exposed how bad the Tories can become if they aren't forced to look centrist anymore. The true right wing believers within that party are delighted to leave the EU.

 

[Coriolanus]

tbf you don't need to convert to your cause peeps that vote for the other side. Is good enough if you convince them to just...stop voting for the other side. take a chill pill.

obv this doesn't necessarily mean that labour should completely axe nhs elderly care for a decade or so if they ever take charge again.

 

[Ashes]

Saddest thing is when voters lack of education means they don't know who is hurting them with cuts. And how even government works.

It's why I try and go out of my way to help explain in these cases which party fits their view even if I profoundly disagree with it.

 

[Ashes]

As per the post above:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ment-jeremy-corbyn-labour-fight-a7758966.html

 

[Pandy]

Let's not forget, the only way labour gets into number 10 is by persuading people who are currently voting Tory to vote Labour. That's it.

The way Labour get into number 10 again is by persuading people who are currently voting for nobody to vote Labour. There are millions more disinterested voters than there are wavering Tory voters.

 

[Spaghetti]

Kinda unrelated, but this fucking humidity is crazy. 97% according the readings in my area. How? Is this global warming related or what?