Nah that breed of idiot at the pub never learns. He'll be sputtering about it to a poor bar maid over his pint of bitter.
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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
- Start date
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Audioboxer
Member
Most likely.
Angry men doing angry things volume 10: Even angrier edition.
oh god that guy in the middle bottom row trying to one up Corbyn saying he didn't answer his question about coalition deals when he clearly did. Corbyn literally had to ELI5 for him.
You're living in a world with Brexit and Trump, don't expect so much.
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
Enemies of the people !
It's these very reasons that I had so little faith left...
Putting faith in people just because they're human seems like a bad idea.
But at least there are people willing to have tell us murdering millions of people isn't a good idea, I have faith in them.
Audioboxer
Member
Boris Johnson's Twitter account... bloody hell
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson
Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, everyone.
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson
Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, everyone.
Boris has actually been a bit frenzied. His pretty spooked. Twice today it's looked like his tried to get a Labour person to hit him on camera. Like putting hands on them trying to goad them.
Thankfully it doesn't seem to be working.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
There's a secret lab somewhere churning these cunts out by the pubload, I'm sure of it.
Audioboxer
Member
I seen that had gone viral earlier. Pathetic behaviour. Wish people would stop the "awww it's just bumbling Boris". The guy is a careerist asshat and now he's supposed to represent the country on a global scale.
Dirtyshubb
Member
How fucking dare he say Corbyn doesn't have a plan for brexit when he is the one that had a very clear plan on the debate. All we have from the Tories are strong and stable and no deal is better than a bad deal.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Seriously though, the SNP is incredibly hard-headed, if they held the balance of power that would not be good.
It'd be a literally endless stream of consciousness around independence, the single market, and other demands, which if they were ignored would lead to another election and a likely Tory majority, just like the SNP caused in 1979.
A pro-Union party can't work properly with hardcore nationalists who aren't fans of compromising. Scotland remaining in the single market and other measures that would lead to de facto independence and disruption of larger rUK trade (worth far, far more to Scotland than external trade according to the SNP government's own figures) is not a compromise and can easily be seen through. If the UK breaks up that's one thing, but doing it de facto and creating two completely separate economies would be absolutely, absolutely pointless. There's no room for compromise with a party that is ideologically opposed to treating the UK as one entity for many purposes.
So a hung parliament that relied on the SNP would be very dysfunctional at best. And don't give Belgium as an example of that somehow working... we're not talking about the leading Flemish nationalist party here; the SNP is well beyond that in rhetoric.
There's no way a hung parliament is functional in 2017 with such a large and rowdy nationalist party, unless the largest party has almost a majority, which can rely on confidence votes from the smaller parties without dealing with the SNP.
It'd be a literally endless stream of consciousness around independence, the single market, and other demands, which if they were ignored would lead to another election and a likely Tory majority, just like the SNP caused in 1979.
A pro-Union party can't work properly with hardcore nationalists who aren't fans of compromising. Scotland remaining in the single market and other measures that would lead to de facto independence and disruption of larger rUK trade (worth far, far more to Scotland than external trade according to the SNP government's own figures) is not a compromise and can easily be seen through. If the UK breaks up that's one thing, but doing it de facto and creating two completely separate economies would be absolutely, absolutely pointless. There's no room for compromise with a party that is ideologically opposed to treating the UK as one entity for many purposes.
So a hung parliament that relied on the SNP would be very dysfunctional at best. And don't give Belgium as an example of that somehow working... we're not talking about the leading Flemish nationalist party here; the SNP is well beyond that in rhetoric.
There's no way a hung parliament is functional in 2017 with such a large and rowdy nationalist party, unless the largest party has almost a majority, which can rely on confidence votes from the smaller parties without dealing with the SNP.
That looks like a busted crime ring.
HotHamWater
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnKbGYbS5XE
What the fuck is going on? Hyperbolic title yes, but there's literally no reason to behave like that.
What the fuck is going on? Hyperbolic title yes, but there's literally no reason to behave like that.
Dirtyshubb
Member
It's not that people think he did bad, just that it got dragged into the fucking gutter and made him look bad to morons which we are worried is most of the country.
The Guardian's live stream had an interview with Nicola Sturgeon today discussing the possibility of progressive alliances and in it she discusses pursuing common progressive goals. She recently cast doubt on indyref2 being a certain thing, although obviously if mood was with her she'd want a referendum following completion of the Brexit deal. I think they'd be quite happy to help lock the Tories out given an opportunity. They're probably quite mindful that tying themselves too closely to Labour in England via any public statements to that effect will damage Labour's prospects and pile on the SNP attacks in the print media even more. I'd personally be in favour of seeing Labour work with some of the other parties. In times of hardship coalitions of national unity can better represent the people sometimes.
Psychotext
Member
He looks like he's had a few.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I think the issue isn't progressive policies, sure, but there's a massive ideological divide between being pro-union and pro-independence, and the SNP will always work for the latter.
If a pro-Union party such as Labour were propped up by a very large and very vocal separatist party like the SNP, I don't see how that would be a desirable outcome. Centre-left parties keeping the Tories out, sure, but at the end of the day you've got two parties with a very different outlook on the constitutional future of the UK, and let's not pretend like the SNP is light on rhetoric or somehow soft on it.
I don't see how it's a recipe for stable government, and if there are concessions to nationalists you can kiss goodbye to another Labour government for a good while.
If you want a stable confidence and supply agreement, maybe start by having two (or more) parties that think the entity they're representing should exist.
Maybe "coalition of chaos" is an exaggeration, but of all the exaggerations it's one of the lesser ones. The parties aren't well suited to each other just because they're left of centre.
So, anybody here got much knowledge on corporation tax? Been having a nosy around the Government's website and it seems currently it's at 19% but doesn't specify if that's the lower or higher rate.
Actually the site implies it's now a flat rate, and due to go as low as 17% by April 2020.
Anybody else feel a bit miffed that they're paying a higher tax rate than corporations? (unless you're below the threshold for personal allowance)
Actually the site implies it's now a flat rate, and due to go as low as 17% by April 2020.
Anybody else feel a bit miffed that they're paying a higher tax rate than corporations? (unless you're below the threshold for personal allowance)
Sqrt_minus_one
Member
Nah this nuke thing has been building for weeks - in many of Corbyn's TV appearances he has been asked the same question and has dodged it repeatedly. It is a follow on from his obvious opposition to trident.
Why he does not just lie about it and say "I am committed to a working toward a nuclear free world however I will do all in my power to keep the UK safe, if it comes down to utilising our nuclear deterrent so be it."
It's not like someone is going to test it out and fire a dummy warhead just to go Jeremy totally did not nuke me into oblivion he lied during his campaign. Dude is just too stubborn, this is not a bad quality but this is stubbornness to the point of stupidity now.
What was a little frustrating was that in a prior event he said he would sign the letters of last resort. All he had to say was that he would do that, the letters of last resort are a matter for the military and it would be a sad state of affairs if those letters ever came in to force.
He gave the audience too much credit in saying he wouldn't have a first use policy. To anyone capable of reading subtext that implies retaliation is on the table. He just didn't want to stand there as a former CND campaigner and say the words.
I'm heartened at least by most commentary I'm seeing online being that the audience were absolutely idiotic and crazy.
He gave the audience too much credit in saying he wouldn't have a first use policy. To anyone capable of reading subtext that implies retaliation is on the table. He just didn't want to stand there as a former CND campaigner and say the words.
I'm heartened at least by most commentary I'm seeing online being that the audience were absolutely idiotic and crazy.
1979 was 38 years ago.The SNP has went through at least 2 revolutions since then.
And the SNP are so HARDCORE and REFUSE to compromise that they are currently running a successful minority government under Nicola Sturgeon and did so from 2007 to 2011 under Alex Salmond.
This is scaremongering bullshit. The current SNP policies match up very well with Labour policies. The only real bump in the road is EVEL. Good luck reforming schools when the Tories hold the balance of power on singularly English issues.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
What the actual fuck? You do realise that this minority government you speak of is propped up by another nationalist party and no one else? They don't have to compromise on their favourite issues. With Labour they would...or they'd bring another Labour government down. Wouldn't be surprised if it's the latter.
Ohh...I see how it is.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
What if I told you that you can help the poor/sick/disabled and keep the deterrent?
Sure, Labour (and Corbyn) are all over the place on it, but they seem to have a consensus on keeping it. It's not one or the other, and it shouldn't have to be.
Monty Mole
Member
Embarrassing. Our foreign secretary. Please would someone stop this madness.
I am on about the people tonight that wanted to nuke shit. May didn't get hit that hard with questions about how austerity is killing people.
Long as she is ready to nuke a country everything is good for them.
You can take the boy out of public school, but not the public school out of the boy.
Chatham House gonna get wrecked tonight by the bullingdon boys.
Audioboxer
Member
We're trying to inch UK politics/politicians away from coming out on TV and in the papers and lying. Corbyn is anti-nuclear. He was at the anti-nuclear march in the UK a year or so back. The guy isn't going to come out and be like "yeah ya old mental geezers am up for smashing that button to fuck up some terrorists and Russians!".
Instead of the muppets praising him for being honest, while being as diplomatic as he can, it's how dare this man not feed us sound bites and "strong and stable" empty words. Just say yes! Please just say yes! Answer our fantasies! SAY IT. MAY SAID IT. CORBYN CONDONE THE KILLING OF MILLIONS IN MY MADE UP SCENARIO OR ELSE!
Call it stubbornness? Some would call it having integrity. *cue you don't win an election based on integrity* Well, that is a problem for the UK, as places in the world do win elections based on honesty and integrity. It says far more about the people in the country that what matters more is being lied to as long as it means confirmation bias. Even if Corbyn says yes to "shut them up" it'll be digging through his past like that anti-nuclear event where he condones the weapons/Trident and is for disarmament. See! Corbyn lies!
I agree it's disheartening but to say it means we're fucked in the long term is silly. Attitudes towards other kinds of violence have gotten a lot better up to now, and I wouldn't be surprised if younger people are better about being anti-nukes. I think long term we'll be just fine.
Eh maybe.
If the Cold War couldn't deter people off nukes, nearly nothing will. Then again - the generation that grew up during it might view nukes as safety because of the propaganda.
Darkstorne
Member
It's all because he handled the question badly in the past that he's stuck in this situation though where he can never win on this question. Of course no one wants nuclear war. But this is a deterrent. He's made the right comments recently when pushed, along the lines of pointing out that it's obviously for defense and NOT a weapon, and that if a nuke was launched at the UK then he would send "the right commands" to the subs. That is a beautifully vague response, where we can all read the likely intention behind his words but it's still ambiguous enough to suggest he might well counter launch against Russia or North Korea. And at the same time allows him to openly talk about wanting to pursue a nuclear free world - which in my opinion sounds lovely (of course) but is wholly unrealistic. You don't win a Mexican standoff by throwing your guns away. The solution is already becoming apparent - a united world, where humans from all countries come together to solve worldwide issues and learn to respect each other in the process. Fuck Trump for sticking a spanner in that one.
Sadly Corbyn made a mess of it in the past by making it clear he would never launch a nuke. So now the nuclear deterrent isn't a deterrent with him in power, or he backtracks and says he WOULD launch a nuke which means he isn't consistent with his views, and this is a huge view to backtrack on. It's a lose/lose question, and only the folks who endorse the U.K. disarming their nukes and simply hoping the rest of the world follows suit will be completely happy about this. For undecided voters like myself it's a big sticking point with voting for Labour. Not because I want to see the U.K. launch a nuke (I hope no UK leader does, even in direct response to a nuke aimed at us - we're dead either way, let's not double the death toll of innocents and wildlife by sending a nuke back), but because I understand the role it plays as a deterrent. And until a better system comes into place, which I'd love to see us working towards, nuclear disarmament is a very bad idea imo.
marcbret87
Member
I have a hard time believing that the big issue of the election is whether the UK would use nukes. A situation like that is completely unheard of, I honestly doubt anyone knows how a person in power would react to being in a position where a nuke should /could be used. There are many much more pressing issues than that in my opinion.
KaoteK
Member
Growing up during the 70's and 80's, my biggest fear was nuclear war. I mean the prospect scared the living shit out of me, and as a kid, I never understood the logic of it (I still don't today)
I really hope this doesn't affect Labour's chances, but seeing those war loving knuckle draggers on QT has made me quite a bit more pessimistic than I've been for the last couple of weeks. What a fucking shambles.
Edit:
Guardian going relatively easy on Corbyn which surprised me a bit given the paper's previous on him:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/03/fridays-election-debate-panel
I really hope this doesn't affect Labour's chances, but seeing those war loving knuckle draggers on QT has made me quite a bit more pessimistic than I've been for the last couple of weeks. What a fucking shambles.
Edit:
Guardian going relatively easy on Corbyn which surprised me a bit given the paper's previous on him:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/03/fridays-election-debate-panel
holygeesus
Banned
Only the Daily Mail, expectedly seem to be focussing on the nuclear responses. It has to have done some damage though, considering how many dumb people vote in this country and will be influenced by it.
SporeCrawler
Member
posted?
very interesting interview with yannis varoufakis on brexit and corbyn
very interesting interview with yannis varoufakis on brexit and corbyn
Jesus. I'm going to probably look like one of them when I'm older.
Hahaha what am I saying? We're all going to be nuked long before then.
Thornton Reed
Member
I think we're getting a little hung up on the nuke thing. The news outlets I've seen aren't running with it and Corbyn again is getting some praise.
I've never seen a party lie and twist facts as much as the tories have in this campaign. How this is being let slide by the press and labour is baffling me.
I've never seen a party lie and twist facts as much as the tories have in this campaign. How this is being let slide by the press and labour is baffling me.
Pyramid head
Banned
Tories are absolute fucking scum, to a man. Tory politicians, Tory Press, Tory voters. How an entire subset of human beings seem to thrive so much on hatred, fear and sewing despair is completely beyond me.
Facts and figures are of no consequence to any of them. The politicians don't have them to begin with and their voters enjoy seeing what the lies do to the people they hate so much they aren't interested in hearing them.
What is happening isn't baffling me, but quite how so many people can be so utterly fucking repulsive is.
Ravensmash
Member
SporeCrawler
Member
is boris johnsons seat so secure that he doesnt have to care about how he looks when he does this!
Daffy Duck
Member
So I'm forming the picture of what a strong and stable Brexit looks like, May walks away with no deal and then nukes Europe, Tory voters happy, May says Corbyn wouldn't have done that for you.
SporeCrawler
Member
fixed
Which one is Will Of The People?
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