The MP raise is far less in total cost but if the principle is supposed to be to not overrule independent pay bodies then the nurses should have gotten their rise. If the govt can consider other factors they damn well shouldn't have gone through with giving themselves an 11% raise.
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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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The MP raise is far less in total cost but if the principle is supposed to be to not overrule independent pay bodies then the nurses should have gotten their rise. If the govt can consider other factors they damn well shouldn't have gone through with giving themselves an 11% raise.
Was Survation the most accurate poll for 2015 elections and EU referendum?
If so then I can't deal with this...this hope ! Only for it to get shatters because the people telling pollsters who they'll vote decided to not vote.
Edit: Isn't the Survation poll just for Westminster ?
If so then I can't deal with this...this hope ! Only for it to get shatters because the people telling pollsters who they'll vote decided to not vote.
Edit: Isn't the Survation poll just for Westminster ?
The weekend before polling day, the average was basically 34% each. It then swung towards the Tories over the next few days.
Survation's final call was by far the most accurate in 2010, but they missed the EU ref like many other pollsters (though not as badly as some).
haha same happened during the last French campaign : a leftist candidate gained a fantastic momentum the last month and was tied with 3 other candidates around 20% for an access to the 2nd round
From what I've read from French pollsters the Ipsos Mori poll is pretty solid
Good leftist platform+well done campaign+small parties reduced to margins
Problem is that turnout for Conservatives is very high and solid (old people I believe)
Theonik
Member
Rees-Mogg as PM.
I just vomited.
scotcheggz
Member
I hate the tories and think may is an unsympathetic mong, her apparent disregard for others troubles is palpable. But.. I've had a fit for work test thing before under a labour government and I was equally treated like shit then too. At the time I had agoraphobia and was basically told too bad, get to the interview or get a job. When I was there, sitting in the room like a nervous wreck, the questions had zero relevance to my condition and made me feel like a dickhead. Despite everyone including my doctor, therapist and dole officer dude recommending taking some time to get sorted and go on the sick for a period, I was basically given a clean bill of health due to questions like "can you put your trousers on yourself?"
I really hope things have moved on since then in regards to mental health and I hope the corbs will address it if he ever did manage to swing this, at least he seems like he's more believable, but when I saw that woman on qt I could sympathise with her plight and I have very little trust in any of them to sort it out. I really really hope this swing to the left for labour will stick about and we'll have a more compassionate government or opposition for a while, for the many not the few etc. Corbyn, you got a lot of weight on your shoulders from voters like me.
I really hope things have moved on since then in regards to mental health and I hope the corbs will address it if he ever did manage to swing this, at least he seems like he's more believable, but when I saw that woman on qt I could sympathise with her plight and I have very little trust in any of them to sort it out. I really really hope this swing to the left for labour will stick about and we'll have a more compassionate government or opposition for a while, for the many not the few etc. Corbyn, you got a lot of weight on your shoulders from voters like me.
JonathanEx
Member
Pyroclastic
Banned
the tory leads in the recent polls range 1,4,5,6,9,11 and 12. I think i'd rather the polls herded tbh ._.
I'd snap your your hands off for the first two of those and would take 3 and 4.
I'd snap your your hands off for the first two of those and would take 3 and 4.
Theonik
Member
It is but one outcome of the Toryverse.
Believe in him !!
Hopefully all we need is the youth to vote and Corbyn seems like one rallying said youth.
Also I was really tipsy one night and this page tickled me way too much (the above image appears to be from it https://www.facebook.com/pg/jeremycorbynphotoshopped/photos/)
I think the issue has really come into the mainstream with this election. In the past people might have felt like some unfortunate people just fell through the cracks but in recent years it has become clear that there is a massive chasm in the system especially with mental health.
Charities working hard against stigma of mental health issues have helped people speak out and get the message across that we need to do more. Every single audience event I have watched has brought up mental health issues when it used to be in the background and not to be talked about. People being open and honest with each other will go a long way to reducing some anxiety, depression and stress conditions.
It is going to be a massive challenge to get it right and whatever Labour are promising won't be enough but it will be a start and a change of course away from the heartless, callous system we have now.
It's frustrating to see Labour get this much closer but still have it not be enough. The Conservatives are losing, and there just isn't enough time. They've been exposed this election to a public that assumed they were the most competent, if not the most genuine, but it would probably take another few weeks to really sink in that they aren't even the simple lie that made themselves out to be.
When the election was called I was just disgusted with how things had twisted here. I was pretty checked out. Now I'm paying attention again, compulsively so.
It could end up being a night of some mild relief if the Tories do in fact lose or gain no ground, or it could live up to the Red Wedding title of this topic more accurately because at first, there wasn't any hope it could go any other way.
When the election was called I was just disgusted with how things had twisted here. I was pretty checked out. Now I'm paying attention again, compulsively so.
It could end up being a night of some mild relief if the Tories do in fact lose or gain no ground, or it could live up to the Red Wedding title of this topic more accurately because at first, there wasn't any hope it could go any other way.
For those trying to remember 2015 polls as I was just now:
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2015
Interesting how close to each other all the polls were compared to a 10+ swing we have now
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2015
Interesting how close to each other all the polls were compared to a 10+ swing we have now
The sad reality is that if he loses, no matter how close, he is getting back stabbed. The knives are already being sharpened as we speak.
Labour will probably end up with more seats than they did under Miliband but they'll want to replace Corbyn with someone more to the right regardless.
They literally cannot get rid of Corbyn unless he fucks up so monumentally that the membership loses faith. Before the election, it looked like that might happen. Now it looks likely that he'll at least grow Labour's vote share, which means there's no getting rid of him and only a fool would try (which obviously didn't stop them before). His opponents will have no choice but to hunker down.
scotcheggz
Member
Absolutely agree. Ive been much better for many years now but this episode has always stuck with me and I'm really hopeful for the situation in regards to the way it's viewed in normal society. You get proper middle aged 'blokes' now admitting that sometimes people have difficulties including them, and it's okay. This in itself is amazing.
I do support corbyn definitely, I'm in Brighton pavilion so will be voting green but hope for labour to blow up expectations. Just thought it was worth pointing out that people my age (35) still remember the Blair legacy of new labour, work capability assesments, the new deal and then Iraq on top of that etc. And it's still a bit raw. As you say, an awful lot of people fell through the cracks and were left to sort things out for themselves. I don't have experience of it under the tories but anecdotally I've seen evidence that it's only worsened. A friend of mine recently ended up officially homeless due to mental health problems and unability to work for goodness sake.
Gotta believe in him I guess. I hope he does it, I really do and I hope if he does, he lives up to his promises. I can say he's not given me reason to disbelieve him yet and if anyone is going to help those that do fall through its more likely to be Jezza than the fucking tory robot.
Not sure what I'm saying and mostly just rambling. Maybe it's just the nervous excitement of seeing a truly left of centre opposition going for it lol.
SporeCrawler
Member
You never know with a dynamic like this. The polls have moved fast in a span of a few days.
scotcheggz
Member
Also, it's not the best barometer by any means but don't really see it mentioned much on Gaf, oddschecker shows a tory majority drifting quite a bit and no overall majority shortening it it's place.
Hype.
Hype.
McDonnell now offering a VAT drop when he feels it can be sustained by economic growth.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/03/labour-pledges-vat-cut
Very good. Lower regressive taxes, increase progressive ones.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/03/labour-pledges-vat-cut
Very good. Lower regressive taxes, increase progressive ones.
itsbenoclock
Member
Just a friendly reminder for everyone to keep their expectations in check.
Look, we can all want nice things and I'm not suggesting you should give up. Just bare in mind the general mood of public and the polls, otherwise it's going to sting like fuck if (when) the tories win on 9th June.
Look, we can all want nice things and I'm not suggesting you should give up. Just bare in mind the general mood of public and the polls, otherwise it's going to sting like fuck if (when) the tories win on 9th June.
OverBlood 3
Banned
Sounds like there has been another major incident in London
Yeah I've just seen it on twitter.
Will this ever end.
Sounds like there has been another major incident in London
what??
Sounds like there has been another major incident in London
What's this?
itsbenoclock
Member
Why haven't barriers been put in place on the major bridges a la Kings Cross station? This will keep happening until something is done.
Just in case we become an echo chamber, here's some top rated comments from a recent BBC article on taxation!
BBC Comments Section said:
BBC Comments Section said:
BBC Comments Section said:
BBC Comments Section said:
BBC Comments Section said:
BBC Comments Section said:
BBC Comments Section said:
BBC Comments Section said:
BBC Comments Section said:
The Rain King
Member
This cannot be stressed enough. Don't do this to yourselves, people.
scotcheggz
Member
I read another forum for Brighton and Hove albion and whilst it can make frustrating reading at times, it's a useful reality check.
Theonik
Member
People are dumb. They also don't understand how progressive taxation works. The concept of 'rich people leaving' is also quite bizarre. It's the government's job to close loopholes and make sure they are paying. And if they just vanished (lol) then someone else would replace them. People seem to think that part of the country will float off into space or something.
If these rich, tax hating people could easily up and leave, why haven't they all moved to Singapore already?
Frankly if they don't want to pay their fair share they can sod off. I'm sure there won't be much shortage of well-educated people jumping at the chance for a pay rise. It's not like we're talking about genius Silicon Valley programmers here, most of these moaners are just middle management
Frankly if they don't want to pay their fair share they can sod off. I'm sure there won't be much shortage of well-educated people jumping at the chance for a pay rise. It's not like we're talking about genius Silicon Valley programmers here, most of these moaners are just middle management
Pyroclastic
Banned
all this progress will be moot if this rumoured london bridge attack is at all bad. for fuck's sake. an attack 2 or 3 week away from the vote can come and go and not affect the discourse too much. if this is as feared, the whole conversation will be about national security until the day of the vote, and will be in people's mind when they go in the booth.
feel like going on a bit of a tirade but won't until we get more info about the attacker.
feel like going on a bit of a tirade but won't until we get more info about the attacker.
Are you joking? An attack would always affect the discourse on defence and foreign policy, and this is 3 attacks in 3 months now.
It could go either way for the election - either people unite under May for 'being difficult' and 'strong' in the fact of adversity, they vote for UKIP for extreme measures on immigration, or they lose faith in the current government's ability to protect citizens and look for alternatives.
As always, I hope for the best case of no loss of life, but I think we can guess that isn't the case.
It had no effect with the Manchester attack.The real question is if the desperate Tories will use this to either make cheap political points (which could backfire) or delay the election.
Its probably inappropriate to speculate at the moment and should wait for more facts to come out.
Huw_Dawson
Member
I saw a discussion on Twitter about the polls. The Survation one got criticised because it seemed to have an improbably high voter engagement - something like 72% of the public said they'd been exposed to last night's debate somehow, which is improbable.
My hunch is that the closer polls are linked to polling people with higher levels of engagement, or not weighing accurately to reflect a biased sample.
My hunch is that the closer polls are linked to polling people with higher levels of engagement, or not weighing accurately to reflect a biased sample.
JonathanEx
Member
It's presumably whether or not we go back up to the highest terror level, isn't it? If it goes up, it'd be impossible to campaign and unfair to do it. If it doesn't, it's a 'we carry on'...
itsbenoclock
Member
Just found out my mum isn't voting. Retired and lives comfortably in France after being a public sector worker most of her life working with disabled children and later autistic children specifically. Struggled to raise me as a single mother and won't have a state pension for another 7 years because of the Tories.
Tells me the vote is "down to you uni students". All she had to do was fill out a damn form and vote by proxy.
Didn't think my own mum would ever turn into a 'fuck you, got mine' type but here we go. I tried to argue her vote goes to helping those disabled people she worked so hard to help for years, and those that are in what was her situation and much worse today. She told me she "doesn't owe the country anything"
I feel disgusted, honestly. Sorry I just had to get it out somewhere.
Tells me the vote is "down to you uni students". All she had to do was fill out a damn form and vote by proxy.
Didn't think my own mum would ever turn into a 'fuck you, got mine' type but here we go. I tried to argue her vote goes to helping those disabled people she worked so hard to help for years, and those that are in what was her situation and much worse today. She told me she "doesn't owe the country anything"
I feel disgusted, honestly. Sorry I just had to get it out somewhere.
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