UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding

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Par Score said:
The Blairites and Progress thought they'd won, they thought they had Labour on lockdown for the foreseeable and that those damn Militant lefties had been silenced for good.

The current situation is therefore wholly unacceptable to them. Because Labour shouldn't be about the membership, it shouldn't be about socialism, it shouldn't be for these Momentum upstarts. It should be for them, the sensible Moderates.

This won't end until the Labour Party is either back in power or split in two.
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It should be about winning. Without power you cannot help people. If Corbyn gets Labour into power, great. If he doesn't, then it's time to change. Corbyn was given a massive boost by the Tory manifesto, without that dementia tax the needle wouldn't have moved and Labour would still be heading for a wipeout. I'm not convinced he is capable of winning an election against a competent Tory campaign. He's lucky that May's team shat the bed so badly.
 
There's a power struggle within the Labour party with the neoliberal centerist types trying to suppress a harder left Corbyn like wing/candidates.

Corbyn has to stay on as leader for several months longer to be able to amend the eligibility rules so a post Corbyn Corbyn like candidate can run.

The only reason they let Corbyn run in the first place was because they thought he had absolutely zero chances of winning leadership. They wouldn't allow any other candidate with a prospect of winning to run. They won't make that same mistake again.

The whole resign fiasco of last summer was because if they got him to resign they could then constrict candidates to a selection of their preferences. Only by not resigning was Corbyn still eligible for a place on the ballot.

That's why it's important for Corbyn to stay on after the election, otherwise the entire leftward movement in Labour is kaput.
 
CCS said:
Thinking about that cities/non city split kinda hammers home the point that the split isn't really working class/middle class any more. It's lives in cities (and broadly tolerant) v doesn't live in cities (and are largely intolerant)
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Pretty much, exposure to the best parts of multicultural / progressive society in citys drives people to a more tolerant point of view.

We don't really have the same class system anymore.
 
Ushojax said:
It should be about winning. Without power you cannot help people. If Corbyn gets Labour into power, great. If he doesn't, then it's time to change. Corbyn was given a massive boost by the Tory manifesto, without that dementia tax the needle wouldn't have moved and Labour would still be heading for a wipeout. I'm not convinced he is capable of winning an election against a competent Tory campaign. He's lucky that May's team shat the bed so badly.
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Agreed. The concern is that the PLP might go back to what they were doing before corbo, and, to have a ballpark estimate of how well that'd go, one can look at scotland.
 
I said it earlier in this thread, I feel like the dumbest thing they could do post election after the way this campaign has gone would be to backbench/disappear Corbyn. You could keep a lot of people on side by at least pretending you care about the people this campaign has excited.
 
Coriolanus said:
Agreed. The concern is that the PLP might go back to what they were doing before corbo, and, to have a ballpark estimate of how well that'd go, one can look at scotland.
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Or Tim Farron, because that's where the PLP wanted to be, anti-brexit and 'pro business'.
 
Coriolanus said:
Agreed. The concern is that the PLP might go back to what they were doing before corbo, and, to have a ballpark estimate of how well that'd go, one can look at scotland.
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I hope that the PLP are pragmatic enough to accept that Corbyn's manifesto has been a great success and should be built on going forward. That document could take Labour into power with the right person spearheading it. Someone who isn't such an easy target for the Daily Mail.
 
Ushojax said:
I hope that the PLP are pragmatic enough to accept that Corbyn's manifesto has been a great success and should be built on going forward. That document could take Labour into power with the right person spearheading it. Someone who isn't such an easy target for the Daily Mail.
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This.
 
Ushojax said:
It should be about winning. Without power you cannot help people. If Corbyn gets Labour into power, great. If he doesn't, then it's time to change. Corbyn was given a massive boost by the Tory manifesto, without that dementia tax the needle wouldn't have moved and Labour would still be heading for a wipeout. I'm not convinced he is capable of winning an election against a competent Tory campaign. He's lucky that May's team shat the bed so badly.
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But it isn't.

Not for the Blairites, many of whom have explicitly approved of May winning rather than Corbyn. They would rather see the Left crushed than help it win.

It's tribes within tribes.
 
Ushojax said:
I hope that the PLP are pragmatic enough to accept that Corbyn's manifesto has been a great success and should be built on going forward. That document could take Labour into power with the right person spearheading it. Someone who isn't such an easy target for the Daily Mail.
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I fully agree with that sentiment. Sadly, the PLP is so pigheaded that they chose to challenge him without even considering that maybe they shouldn't pull that kinda shite before finding a suitable opponent, so, yknow.... outlook: not so good.
 
people were calling for corbyn to step down after the election was called, and if that happened where do you think labour would be now? corbyn's determination to cut through to people (wrongly misconstrued as arrogance) has once again been vindicated. he deserves more than the benefit of the doubt at this point.
 
I thought this was a very interesting juxtaposition from Blackpool:

LPuUU4h.jpg
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That editor is doing their job :)
 
Beefy said:
Hope the Exit Polls give a clear winner, so I can sleep.
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I wish I could do this! Just like with the last election, Brexit and even Trump, I ended up staying up for hours staring at my phone's screen as the negative results kept coming in. I'm just trying to get the sense of dread all out of me before the night at this point.
 
Ushojax said:
It should be about winning. Without power you cannot help people. If Corbyn gets Labour into power, great. If he doesn't, then it's time to change. Corbyn was given a massive boost by the Tory manifesto, without that dementia tax the needle wouldn't have moved and Labour would still be heading for a wipeout. I'm not convinced he is capable of winning an election against a competent Tory campaign. He's lucky that May's team shat the bed so badly.
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I disagree, you wouldn't be seeing the difference you're seeing now. Corbyn was the first person to mention the phrase 'dementia tax' and I don't think you'd see a manifesto like that under someone else, they'd be chasing immigration targets and still clinging to a second referendum putting off countless people.

May has certainly helped by being not-quite human.

GarthVaderUK said:
I wish he'd channelled more of that fire during PMQs.
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He did but no one watched, they preferred to be told he was doing badly. The difference is now people are paying attention they can see through the smears and untruths.
 
PowderedToast said:
people were calling for corbyn to step down after the election was called, and if that happened where do you think labour would be now? corbyn's determination to cut through to people (wrongly misconstrued as arrogance) has once again been vindicated. he deserves more than the benefit of the doubt at this point.
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Whenever Corbyn steps down Labour is veering further back to the right which is the real worry for me and I'll guess some others. This election will be used as an internal war chip that the only way for Labour to ever win again will be to chase the Tories/UKippers.

Honestly. This is one of the best manifestos the country will see in a while. No, it's not perfect, and it has stuff in it that might fail to get fully done, but it's a worthwhile attempt at something different.

There's just too much support for Brexit in the UK, and as a byproduct of that more of the country than ever leans right.
 
Ushojax said:
I hope that the PLP are pragmatic enough to accept that Corbyn's manifesto has been a great success and should be built on going forward. That document could take Labour into power with the right person spearheading it. Someone who isn't such an easy target for the Daily Mail.
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Well they have to. Labour have a ton of members who will only vote for whomever Corbyn gives his blessing to.
 
Beefy said:
Hope the Exit Polls give a clear winner, so I can sleep.
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not for me, clive. if it's close i'm cracking out the booze and miscellany. if it's not close i'm going to wearily drudge myself to sleep the minute it strikes ten.

It won't be close though. those articles about them shoring up the vote in metropolitan areas as opposed to everywhere else strike me as being what will happen.
 
Pyroclastic said:
not for me, clive. if it's close i'm cracking out the booze and miscellany. if it's not close i'm go wearily drudge myself to sleep the minute it strikes ten.
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I'm going to out knocking on doors most of the day, then get drunk and go to bed. No staying up agonising for me this time.
 
Roberto Larcos said:
We've come a long way since this thing was announced. All of me, Crab, QuicheFontaine and mo60 predicted a Conservative majority north of 200. Crab and QuicheFontaine gave the Tories over 400 seats!
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My actual seat count prediction in the end for the tories may actually be kinda close even if I screwed up with my majority prediction.Lol. I just recognized that I calculated the majority wrong. They tories wouldn't get a majority of 200 with only 376 seats.
 
My wife saw this ad on Facebook today:
2kyAkvs.jpg


Who the fuck are they kidding, especially with that picture of southern rail, the most hated train company in existence.
 
Imagine if the popular vote is close and the Conservative majority is large and healthy despite it because all their votes are clustered in tons of countryside seats and the Labour one is clustered in urban areas. If that doesn't wake Labour up as to why FPTP is bad and to pledge to get rid of it nothing will.
 
OverBlood 3 said:
He did but no one watched, they preferred to be told he was doing badly. The difference is now people are paying attention they can see through the smears and untruths.
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I watched a bunch of them and I thought his questions from the public approach fell flat, personally. And I like the guy!
 
Anyone have much faith in Ashcroft's projections?

He's predicting healthy Conservative gains, and I often see his predictions/probabilities touted as being important...

However, he's not exactly coming from the most impartial background (at all). I just checked the constituency breakdown and it seems to suggest the Greens will lose Brighton Pavilion too.

That's kind of my go to test for individual seat projections as its a fairly certain Green bet.

Juicy Bob said:
I can't stand Dimbleby.

There, I said it.
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Dimbleby is amazing - he's a great presenter.
 
No one thinking of watching ITV?

Can't complain about biased BBC and keep tuning in. Tom Bradby and Robert Peston are both excellent. Plus they have Ed Balls (hates Corbyn) and George Osbourne (hates May) so there will be some fireworks.
 
Dan27 said:
With the new user activation wait it pratically is..

EDIT: I think I'll be watching a mix of Sky News and BBC thursday night. Probably mostly the latter.
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EviLore planning to sell us off to one of those "Fit for work" firms. We're onto him. "Fit for posting".
 
I don't think rudd is in danger of losing her seat right now but her margin of victory isn't exactly that strong.In a comfortable election win for labour possibly in the future labour can take that seat again.
 
That Conservative privatisation thing is some fake news ass shit. The watchdog needs to look into that - it's purposefully deceiving voters into sharing a campaign pledge that the Tories don't believe in.
 
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