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[Hazzuh]

He's not terrible at every other aspect of his job though. So nope.

Unless you want to be the very first person who justifies that nonsense with something that stands up to scrutiny.

Well, I made many posts about this during the previous leadership election so I am going to pull up some of these old quotes. His first and most obvious flaw is total inability (or unwillingness) to work with those around him. He often announces policies without consulting the shadow minister in charge or changes his mind about / refuses to support policies that he has previously agreed to. The most obvious example of this is Trident, where Corbyn - who always talks about how the party needs to respect decisions made at conference - has tried to worm his way out of conference's decision ever since he became leader. I am just going to leave some quotes below about his absolutely dreadful leadership style:

Thangam Debbonaire, writing about being Shadow Culture Minister
https://www.facebook.com/thangam.deb...57204442320083

Mr Corbyn appointed me and press released this without my knowledge or consent whilst I was in the middle of cancer treatment. He then sacked me the next day when he realized he had given away part of someone else's role. But didn't bother to tell me that either. By then my office had been besieged by press and the story was out that I was Shadow Minister. I decided to make the best of it and to serve. I worked on his Arts policy whilst I was still having treatment but in Bristol..

When I went back to Westminster, I discovered that he had sacked me but hadn't told me and did not have any ideas for how I was supposed to explain it to Bristol West members or constituents.

Lilian Greenwood, writing about being Shadow Transport Minister
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-thangam-debbonaire_uk_578bb56ee4b08078d6e8d53b

Incredibly, Jeremy launched a Shadow Cabinet reshuffle on the same day. This was the reshuffle that had been talked about since the Syria vote a month earlier. A vote where I supported Jeremy’s position. The reshuffle that meant all our staff spent Christmas not knowing whether they'd have a job by the New Year. By mid-afternoon the press were camped outside the Leader's office. They were there for the next 3 days.

It knocked all the coverage of the rail fare rise and our public ownership policy off every news channel and every front page. I respect completely Jeremy’s right to reshuffle his top team. But why then? It was unnecessary and it was incompetent.
Despite our agreed policy, despite Jeremy's Director of Policy and I agreeing our position, without saying anything to me, Jeremy gave a press interview in which he suggested he could drop Labour’s support for HS2 altogether. He told a journalist on a local Camden newspaper that perhaps the HS2 line shouldn’t go to Euston at all but stop at Old Oak Common in West London – but he never discussed any of this with the Shadow Cabinet, or me, beforehand. I felt totally undermined on a really difficult issue.

Richard Murphy, creator of "Corbynomics"
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/07/17/the-rise-and-fall-of-corbyns-economics/

I had the opportunity to see what was happening inside the PLP. The leadership wasn’t confusing as much as just silent. There was no policy direction, no messaging, no direction, no co-ordination, no nothing. Shadow ministers appeared to have been left with no direction as to what to do. It was shambolic. The leadership usually couldn’t even get a press release out on time to meet print media deadlines and then complained they got no coverage.

Then there is the matter of his incredibly lacklustre and halfhearted EU referendum campaign. I suppose this is history to some people but I still find it bizarre that a man who likes nothing more than to campaign seemed to disappear for the vast majority of the EU referendum. Of course, the most reasonable explanation for this is that the lifelong eurosceptic (hence him voting against the Libson and Maastricht treatries) wasn't actually very enthusiastic about us staying in the EU.

Stewart Owadally, Welsh Remain Campaign Director
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-36651135

The letter, written by both Mr Owadally, who is a Labour member, and Wales Stronger In Europe's head of press Alex Kalinik, said: "We were consistently given short shrift when we requested visits from Labour figures via the Labour Party in London.

"Our political champions from the Labour Party were often unable to get hold of research or rebuttal materials from Labour HQ to help make their case.

"In the end we often coordinated press for Labour figures because the Labour Party was not willing to do so - but these were less powerful because they were not from the official party infrastructure.

"Most strikingly felt of all was the complete disinterest from Jeremy Corbyn.

"As leader of our party, he should have thrown the full weight of his resources - as leader, as the leader's office, and as the steward of the party itself - into the Labour campaign for a Remain vote, but this did not happen.
I think there was another EU referendum one about how people were left hanging by the leadership and had to do everything themselves.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36633238

And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".

One email from the leader's office suggests that Mr Corbyn's director of strategy and communications, Seumas Milne, was behind Mr Corbyn's reluctance to take a prominent role in Labour's campaign to keep the UK in the EU. One email, discussing one of the leader's speeches, said it was because of the "hand of Seumas. If he can't kill it, he will water it down so much to hope nobody notices it".

A series of messages dating back to December seen by the BBC shows correspondence between the party leader's office, the Labour Remain campaign and Labour HQ, discussing the European campaign. It shows how a sentence talking about immigration was removed on one occasion and how Mr Milne refused to sign off a letter signed by 200 MPs after it had already been approved.

The documents show concern in Labour HQ and the Labour Remain campaign about Mr Corbyn's commitment to the campaign - one email says: "What is going on here?" Another email from Labour Remain sources to the leader's office complains "there is no EU content here - we agreed to have Europe content in it". Sources say they show the leader's office was reluctant to give full support to the EU campaign and how difficult it was to get Mr Corbyn to take a prominent role.

Then there are other issues which are deeply problematic to me personally, such as his historical support for the IRA and his current dishonesty about his previous positions. Up until this election he apparently met the IRA in order to help the peace process, now it turns out that never met the IRA?!

Neither position is actually defensible if you look at his record:

I still haven't heard how voting against the Anglo-Irish Agreement voted the peace process along, and what he said about it at the time seem to have more to do with advancing Irish republicanism than peace:

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that some of us oppose the [Anglo-Irish] agreement for reasons other than those that he has given? We believe that the agreement strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the 26 counties, and those of us who wish to see a United Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.

I still think the best summation of Corbyn's approach to the IRA is this Guardian editorial from 1996:

So yes, in summary I do with he is a bad leader. He obviously lacks the skills necessary to lead a major political party, on the major issue of the day (Brexit) he was and continues to be wishywashy and on issues that matter to me personally he was not only wrong but also a liar. There are other issues too, like the fact the MPs who he has surrounded himself with are either inept (Abbott) or deeply unpleasant (McDonnell) and his leadership team is often both (Milne).

To be clear, I am still voting for the Labour party. I think the manifesto is fairly reasonable and the I think the campaign has gone fairly well (which is unsurprising considering campaigning is the only thing Corbyn has ever been good at), none of that changes the fact that Corbyn would be a truly, truly terrible prime minister.

 

[Audioboxer]

The Scottish Tories have been running with that line for years now.

I literally got a leaflet through the door that doesn't even feature my candidates face on the front cover but Davidson's

"Ruth Davidson's candidate..."

Pushing Ruth hard. It seems to be working though.

 

[Randdalf]

Can see why C4 news weren't allowed an interview before 🤣 Actually asking questions.

 

[Goldfishking]

I literally got a leaflet through the door that doesn't even feature my candidates face on the front cover but Davidson's

"Ruth Davidson's candidate..."

Pushing Ruth hard. It seems to be working though.

The one in salford (and probably other places in the uk) is the same except Theresa may.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

The Scottish Tories have been running with that line for years now.

Yep - feels a lot more front and centre this time, but perhaps that's just because of how much it mirrors the way they've tried to push May.

The other thing I've noticed is a lot more stickers etc. naming the party in full - Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party - where previously I'd seen more campaigning fluff with just "Scottish Conservatives". I wondered if there was a concerted effort to push the Unionist aspect as a possible vote-winner, scooping up the voters who don't want independence and have abandoned Labour as a Unionist opposition?

I literally got a leaflet through the door that doesn't even feature my candidates face on the front cover but Davidson's

"Ruth Davidson's candidate..."

Pushing Ruth hard. It seems to be working though.

That's the exact one we got, except for Ross! Of course, ours ended up with Ruthy getting laser eyes to beam doom at everyone...

 

[WhateverItTakes]

Can see why C4 news weren't allowed an interview before 🤣 Actually asking questions.

And we learned nothing new. Such is May.

 

[Audioboxer]

The one in salford (and probably other places in the uk) is the same except Theresa may.

Must be a Tory country wide tactic then. I suppose some of those marketing/PR folks paid truckloads to try and influence elections decided this was the way to do it.

Yep - feels a lot more front and centre this time, but perhaps that's just because of how much it mirrors the way they've tried to push May.

The other thing I've noticed is a lot more stickers etc. naming the party in full - Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party - where previously I'd seen more campaigning fluff with just "Scottish Conservatives". I wondered if there was a concerted effort to push the Unionist aspect as a possible vote-winner, scooping up the voters who don't want independence and have abandoned Labour as a Unionist opposition?

Pretty certain it's always said "& Unionist". However, they may well be pushing it harder given current circumstances. All of the Masonic's up here do not exactly need reminding though lol.

 

[Zakalwe]

Well, I made many posts about this during the previous leadership election so I am going to pull up some of these old quotes. His first and most obvious flaw is total inability (or unwillingness) to work with those around him. He often announces policies without consulting the shadow minister in charge or changes his mind about / refuses to support policies that he has previously agreed to. The most obvious example of this is Trident, where Corbyn - who always talks about how the party needs to respect decisions made at conference - has tried to worm his way out of conference's decision ever since he became leader. I am just going to leave some quotes below about his absolutely dreadful leadership style:

Thangam Debbonaire, writing about being Shadow Culture Minister
https://www.facebook.com/thangam.deb...57204442320083

Lilian Greenwood, writing about being Shadow Transport Minister
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-thangam-debbonaire_uk_578bb56ee4b08078d6e8d53b

Richard Murphy, creator of "Corbynomics"
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/07/17/the-rise-and-fall-of-corbyns-economics/



Then there is the matter of his incredibly lacklustre and halfhearted EU referendum campaign. I suppose this is history to some people but I still find it bizarre that a man who likes nothing more than to campaign seemed to disappear for the vast majority of the EU referendum. Of course, the most reasonable explanation for this is that the lifelong eurosceptic (hence him voting against the Libson and Maastricht treatries) wasn't actually very enthusiastic about us staying in the EU.

Stewart Owadally, Welsh Remain Campaign Director
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-36651135




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36633238



Then there are other issues which are deeply problematic to me personally, such as his historical support for the IRA and his current dishonesty about his previous positions. Up until this election he apparently met the IRA in order to help the peace process, now it turns out that never met the IRA?!

Neither position is actually defensible if you look at his record:

I still haven't heard how voting against the Anglo-Irish Agreement voted the peace process along, and what he said about it at the time seem to have more to do with advancing Irish republicanism than peace:



I still think the best summation of Corbyn's approach to the IRA is this Guardian editorial from 1996:




So yes, in summary I do with he is a bad leader. He obviously lacks the skills necessary to lead a major political party, on the major issue of the day (Brexit) he was and continues to be wishywashy and on issues that matter to me personally he was not only wrong but also a liar. There are other issues too, like the fact the MPs who he has surrounded himself with are either inept (Abbott) or deeply unpleasant (McDonnell) and his leadership team is often both (Milne).

To be clear, I am still voting for the Labour party. I think the manifesto is fairly reasonable and the I think the campaign has gone fairly well (which is unsurprising considering campaigning is the only thing Corbyn has ever been good at), none of that changes the fact that Corbyn would be a truly, truly terrible prime minister.

It's hard to argue with the letters from his fellow party members, but then we only have their side of events and I'm not ready to judge him fully based on those. It doesn't paint a good picture, but it also doesn't show malice on his part or anything to be truly worried about.

Everything I've ever heard hims say regarding Trident has made perfect sense. Is there a particular part you've offered you think requires highlighting?

I would much rather have a party leader who gives a shit about the people than one who is a great manager.

The IRA stuff is all nonsense. He was opening discourse with those people despite knowing he would be targeted for it. He stodd his ground and did what he believed was right, and I fully respect him for that. His ideas on how to attain peace are the only ones that make sense in the long term.

The EU stuff is a shame, and this shows off his biggest weakness. The integrity that gives him his biggest strength also makes him unwilling top bend to the point it harms his cause. Sometimes he could give a much simpler answer to idiots asking dumb questions, but that would involve him slightly pandering and he just won't do that.

Nothing you've written makes him a bad leader though, simply an imperfect one.

 

[Morat]

And we learned nothing new. Such is May.

Yeah. Soundbites and a couple of lies about Corbyn. Nothing new here.

 

[SporeCrawler]

I think Corbyn will try to cling on after the election citing 'lack of time to prepare and really put our case across'. He'll probably ask for more time, and I fear Momentum will give it to him. I think Lib Dems should go all out on urban seats where people take a liberal international facing view on things. They can really win a decent amount of people over who are social liberals but centre-right economically. Really hammer it home that the social conservatives in the Conservative party are in control and will make things worse. Also play up the fact that you and your children cannot take advantage of things like cheaper education (taught in English) in mainland Europe, and neither can you live in mainland Europe anywhere near as easily as you can do now depending on what kind of deal is reached.

I don't see how a soft Brexit is some impossible thing to negotiate. Switzerland and Norway have precisely that, a purely economic relationship. It's the closest thing to the EEC you can get in today's Europe. And it's odd because the Tories are socially conservative on matters like citizenship and nationhood now but progressive on some things like for example saying 'prison is primarily for rehabilitation, society should give ex-offenders a chance to make things right'. I know this because I've recently tried to get a job in a prison before and I've looked into the MoJ's work to prepare for the interview. Weird.

lol its not. both swiss and norway have to pay their contribution and have to accept the four freedoms which includes freedom of movement. in particular norway is bound to accept all EU laws without having a vote in it.

 

[scotcheggz]

Where are you guys watching the C4 interview? Isn't it on after the cricket?

Wait nevermind I'm on the completely wrong channel... guys how do I TV?

 

[Dirtyshubb]

I was just going through the election section on Google trends and it was quite interesting, different topics on each region etc.

Funniest thing is the 5th most asked question for ukip - are ukip racist. Lol.

NHS seems to be the biggest factor in the last week, quite A bit for pensions too.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

The leaflet we got, post-editing...

 

[excowboy]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 44% (-3)
LAB: 34% (-1)
LDEM: 9% (+1)
UKIP: 5% (+1)
GRN: 2% (+1)

(via @ComRes / 05 - 07 Jun)

 

[Audioboxer]

The leaflet we got, post-editing...

*Enlarge*

Huw, pls respond if okay.

 

[BossDarkseid]

The leaflet we got, post-editing...

Misread that as "And get Doctor Doom" and now i'm disappointed that isn't the case.

Which says a lot about me, I suppose.

 

[faridmon]

May is like the PS2 port of the Metal Slug anthology.

OK this made me laugh

 

[BossDarkseid]

May is like the PS2 port of the Metal Slug anthology.

.

 

[D4Danger]

that bar graph is killing me. They've gone full on fox news.

 

[BossDarkseid]

that bar graph is killing me. They've gone full on fox news.

At least they haven't gone Polygon style Pie Charts.

 

[CD93]

Not ready for that Conservative majority exit poll, tomorrow. So very not ready.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeuH7FG9mSA

 

[CarlisleDavid1979]

News free day tomorrow. However will the BBC cope.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

Not ready for that Conservative majority exit poll, tomorrow. So very not ready.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeuH7FG9mSA

Yeah my hopes kinda died now, but y'know, my fault for hoping. (Wonder Woman's ending, the prospect of my last exam being physical chemistry, and Liverpool being complete morons in the transfer window have also contributed to this shitty mood.)

Reckon I'm gonna need to be at least 2 pints in by 10pm tomorrow. Goddamnit can't I have a win that's beyond my control at some point soon? Sony better have a good E3 or I'll become an juggalo or some shit.

 

[Garjon]

News free day tomorrow. However will the BBC cope.

I can't wait to see how the Tories find a loophole that allows them to campaign on election day.

 

[Pandy]

Not ready for that Conservative majority exit poll, tomorrow. So very not ready.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeuH7FG9mSA

Indeed. That small Conservative majority prediction I posted earlier is mostly wishful thinking that the Exit Poll is going to be too close to call and give me one more night's sleep with hope.

Going to photoshop a couple of bits later if I have time before the despair settles in completely.

I can't wait to see how the Tories find a loophole that allows them to campaign on election day.

I'm thinking stories about the investigations into the Manchester/London attacks, or something about the EU. Something that isn't technically relevant to the General Election, but totally is.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

I've got a ten pack of Dark Fruits ready for the night. Exit polls may make me speed through them.

Have we seen Boris vs Fortune Teller?

https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/872525013982883840

 

[Goldfishking]

I've got a ten pack of Dark Fruits ready for the night. Exit polls may make me speed through them.

Have we seen Boris vs Fortune Teller?

https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/872525013982883840

Haha that's great.

 

[Pandy]

I've got a ten pack of Dark Fruits ready for the night. Exit polls may make me speed through them.

Have we seen Boris vs Fortune Teller?

https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/872525013982883840

Superb response from her.

 

[Pyroclastic]

didn't expect to have a pit in my stomach today. can't believe it will still feel so bad tomorrow even though I expected it.

 

[pulsemyne]

One good thing about the comres and ICM polls is that they have shown a small shift away from the tories. It'll be interesting to see if the other polls show the same. Bare in mind both comres and ICM are by far and away the most pro tory of the polls. They don't think youth vote will be much of a factor.

 

[Ravensmash]

One good thing about the comres and ICM polls is that they have shown a small shift away from the tories. It'll be interesting to see if the other polls show the same. Bare in mind both comres and ICM are by far and away the most pro tory of the polls. They don't think youth vote will be much of a factor.

Yes, there hasn't been a continued labour surge but equally there hasn't been much change in the past week on these polls.

Certainly, nothing near as dramatic as we've seen from the rest of the campaign time.

Are there times for the other polls?

 

[PJV3]

didn't expect to have a pit in my stomach today. can't believe it will still feel so bad tomorrow even though I expected it.

I just think there didn't have to be an election for years or for Corbyn to unexpectedly put up a decent campaign.

If it's a disappointing result, it's business as usual.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/872364109458804736

Sorry if posted already.

 

[Par Score]

Tory lead down by another two, looks good to me.

Don't trust the numbers, trust the direction.

 

[HazySaiyan]

NHS seems to be the biggest factor in the last week, quite A bit for pensions too.

And yet people will still vote Tory

that bar graph is killing me. They've gone full on fox news.

 

[Jezbollah]

I am up in glorious Glasgow. Transpires I may be extended here beyond tomorrow lunchtime (meaning I wont get home to vote). Feeling very conflicted over this given I have still yet to decide who to vote for...

 

[pulsemyne]

Oh and ICM's raw data indicates the tories have a 4 point lead. What's happening is that ICM are lumping a huge chunk of people who refused to tell them how the would vote with the tories. Of course refusing to say how you would vote could mean your a kipper...
Basically they are aggressively weighting the poll for the tories.

 

[pulsemyne]

Yes, there hasn't been a continued labour surge but equally there hasn't been much change in the past week on these polls.

Certainly, nothing near as dramatic as we've seen from the rest of the campaign time.

Are there times for the other polls?

All the others come out tonight. You'll get nothing tomorrow because they won't be allowed to talk about it until after 10 o'clock and by then the exit polls will be out.

 

[D4Danger]

the thing about the polls that gets me is that while Labour have gone up the Tories have never really dipped. It makes me think they're still going to absolutely crush tomorrow like we all first thought because they'll suck up the UKIP floaters.

at least this time I'm prepared anyway. 2015 was a kick in the bollocks.

edit: if you want a laugh here's the 2015 thread the moment the exit poll came in - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1018192&page=149

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

It was nice feeling a little hope for a while. Bring on the crushing.

 

[excowboy]

Tory lead down by another two, looks good to me.

Don't trust the numbers, trust the direction.

I'll take that! I'm trying to suppress my tiny smidgeon of hope, but it keeps niggling me...

 

[Morat]

at least this time I'm prepared anyway. 2015 was a kick in the bollocks.

It was indeed. It's still going to be a kick in the bollocks though.

 

[Beefy]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 44% (-)
LAB: 36% (-)
LDEM: 7% (-)
UKIP: 5% (-)
GRN: 2% (-1)

(via @PanelbaseMD / 02 - 07 Jun)

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/872536055488155648

 

[JonathanEx]

edit: if you want a laugh here's the 2015 thread the moment the exit poll came in - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1018192&page=149

Oh, well, it's weird to watch this in replay. I see 2015 Jon didn't say he was hopeful but was clearly interested in YouGov's contradicting poll.

What else did 2015 Jon say, 5 minutes after the exit poll?

This is going to be a long night and I don't think I have enough booze.

I'm going to just recycle all my posts from last year. I mean from 10:24

Either polling or exit-poll business has been set back 20 years cos of this, so, this will be fuuun.

See this is all just reusable stuff for me


Edit: My favourite post is this one, which I feel is worth following

 

[mo60]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 44% (-)
LAB: 36% (-)
LDEM: 7% (-)
UKIP: 5% (-)
GRN: 2% (-1)

(via @PanelbaseMD / 02 - 07 Jun)

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/872536055488155648

Final result will probably be +5 to +9 conservatives.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

the thing about the polls that gets me is that while Labour have gone up the Tories have never really dipped. It makes me think they're still going to absolutely crush tomorrow like we all first thought because they'll suck up the UKIP floaters.

at least this time I'm prepared anyway. 2015 was a kick in the bollocks.

edit: if you want a laugh here's the 2015 thread the moment the exit poll came in - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1018192&page=149

Shame on you and your 50 posts per page.

 

[Pandy]

I only caught Daily Politics in passing again today, but I thought I heard that there's a big poll coming out at 11pm today?

The people were talking like the guy was crazy, so I'm assuming he was from YouGov given how positive their polls have been for Labour.

EDIT: Fuck you TNS, I was getting comfortable on my downward trajectory.

 

[JonathanEx]

Just catching up more with my recap of our last election. At 1:15AM, from Crab...

If the Cons get ~300, we'll probably see a second election quite quickly when the Conservatives realize they can't actually pass much.

Well a little longer than expected but turns out that was accurate

 

[Beefy]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 43% (-)
LAB: 38% (+5)
LDEM: 7% (-4)
UKIP: 4% (-)
GRN: 2% (-1)

(via @TNS_UK / 01 - 07 Jun)
Chgs w 30 May

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/872545556727558145

 

[mo60]

I also saw a surveymonkey poll with a similar gap between labour and the conservative. 7% is bad for the LD's if that TNS poll is accurate.