Support NeoGAF

[Randy Lanzarote]

Jeremy Corbyn ✔ @jeremycorbyn

Congratulations to @WelshLabour for defying the pundits and winning outright in Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Torfaen, Neath Port Talbot & RCT.

"What about your losses in England & Scotlan...."
"JEREMY IS TAKING NO MORE QUESTIONS!"


He's going to stay on as leader even if the party gets wiped isn't he?
And people are still gonna support him because it's the 'establishment media' who are to blame.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

He's going to stay on as leader even if the party gets wiped isn't he?

Yes - he's the vehicle for the Trot takeover, so he's going to be in place until the succession is secured.

The only thing that matters for Corbyn's backers is that they have the Labour Party branding - the moderate half of the party can go hang.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Plaid have done quietly very, very well. Shows that there is still appetite for left wing policies in rural areas.

Lots of Plaid supporters are small c-conservative, though. Plaid voters voted for Leave at much higher rates than Welsh Labour did, for example, and they consistently show more conservative attitudes on immigration, welfare reform, and so on. Their success isn't down to their left-wingedness - if anything, I think that holds them back. It's because they're an anywhere-but-Westminster party; a rejection of the elite and the urban metropoles.

 

[Audioboxer]

Well if your ill, vunerable or disabled (I'm all 3) were fucked even more now,as the poor are voting Tory this time.Im buying extra lube in preparation to be fucked even harder once the GE is over

It's okay Bernie is reminding everyone the US healthcare system is worse

It may well be, but the Tories seem to be in love with the way things are done in America further defunding, crippling and inching the NHS to "privatisation is the only way it can be saved". The railways/public transport is gone, the postal service is gone, the utility services are gone, up next, probably in our lifetimes, it'll be the NHS. Or at least sections of it. You can bet mental health will go first. Mental health? Pls, rich/elites don't need no poor/weak persons mental health services.

You've got Americans trying to fight for universal health care, and we've got a country with it and a government showing utter contempt for it... With many vulnerable and needy actively voting for the party which has the most likely chance to fuck them all over when it comes to healthcare. Astounding.

 

[Meadows]

Looking like Burnham wiped the floor in Manchester.

However, worth noting that many voted for him rather than Labour (such as myself).

 

[pulsemyne]

Jeremy Corbyn ✔ @jeremycorbyn




"What about your losses in England & Scotlan...."
"JEREMY IS TAKING NO MORE QUESTIONS!"


He's going to stay on as leader even if the party gets wiped isn't he?
And people are still gonna support him because it's the 'establishment media' who are to blame.

How dare he congratulate welsh labour! It's a crime! He must never congratulate them on doing better than expected.
Good to see that at least at a local level labour still has support round here. Round of applause to us Welsh.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Lots of Plaid supporters are small c-conservative, though.

Yup - that's what you quickly learn when campaigning in Ceredigion, as I have done. Plaid is further to the right than the SNP, certainly. It's why they do worse in mid Wales than north Wales - mid Wales (B+R, Ceredigion, Montgomeryshire, Powys) are more Liberal areas.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

Yes - he's the vehicle for the Trot takeover, so he's going to be in place until the succession is secured.

The only thing that matters for Corbyn's backers is that they have the Labour Party branding - the moderate half of the party can go hang.

Moderate half? Surely you mean "Tory-Lite Neoliberals".?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The collapse of Labour.

Labour's share of the vote has remained almost entirely the same (down 2%). They've been decimated because the Conservatives have absorbed UKIP. Same applies for the Liberal Democrats, who even moderately increased their share of the vote (+4%), but still overall lost seats because of that UKIP -> Con movement. If Labour is facing a collapse, then logically the Liberal Democrats are facing one almost as bad, because they both have the exact same problem (not trusted on Brexit or globalisation).

It's not fair to compare to 2012/13 (nations '12, England '13) as such either - that was not a GE year.

GEs have little correlation with LEs, though. See 1983. Councils hold elections every 4 years. The last LE election for these seats was in 2013. So we're looking at the movements since 2013 to see what is going on. What is going on is: Labour very slightly down, Lib Dems very slightly up, UKIP obliterated, Conservatives soaring.

It's a good Lib Dem recovery with more to do to ensure we can begin to win properly at election time again, a *horrendous* result for Labour which can only be lain at the feet of Corbyn, and the nationalists - the Tories, Plaid and the SNP - all doing very well.

I admire your tenacity in foreseeing a bright yellow future, but let's be realistic here. The Liberal Democrats lost seats and their vote share increase (+4%), if replicated at the GE, would see them pick up 2 seats and lose 1 for a net gain of 1. Labour's problems are structural and stem from more than just leadership (although leadership is a component).

 

[Hazzuh]

Burnham winning the Manchester mayoralty probably made a bad day worse for a lot of Labour MPs lol.

 

[pulsemyne]

For once a rather funny comment comes along on the BBC's have your say section. It regards the governments bright idea of real time looking at what your doing on the internet (nothing dodgy about that at all Mrs May). To which one person replied.
"MI6. The only part of government that listens to the people."

 

[Meadows]

Honestly, Burnham basically ran as an independent. Labour shouldn't take anything from this.

 

[Bananajama]

I
You've got Americans trying to fight for universal health care, and we've got a country with it and a government showing utter contempt for it... With many vulnerable and needy actively voting for the party which has the most likely chance to fuck them all over when it comes to healthcare. Astounding.

Let's not forget that the only party that actually privatised an NHS hospital so far is Labour

And not forgetting that Department of Health figures showed that the amount of its funding that went to ”independent sector providers" more than doubled from £4.1bn in 2009-10 (Labours last year of power), to £8.7bn in 2015-16

 

[PJV3]

Honestly, Burnham basically ran as an independent. Labour shouldn't take anything from this.

Corbyn shouldn't perhaps, Burnham is a Labour guy through and through.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

I admire your tenacity in foreseeing a bright yellow future, but let's be realistic here. The Liberal Democrats lost seats and their vote share increase (+4%), if replicated at the GE, would see them pick up 2 seats and lose 1 for a net gain of 1. Labour's problems are structural and stem from more than just leadership (although leadership is a component).

Dude, you're sitting here saying Labour and the LDs are comparable? Labour have lost over 300 seats and their vote share is down. We're up four percent and have lost far less seats on ratio than Labour have. We were far better able to defend our seats against the Tory surge than you were!

I'm not forecasting a bright yellow future, I'm telling you that Labour is getting kicked in the balls and it's Corbyn and his mates doing the kicking. There is no magic "structural" reason Labour is losing right now. Your leader is hated, your party is directionless and you are being torn to pieces. The only reason Welsh Labour didn't do "as bad as expected" was because they're pretending Carwyn Jones is their national leader.

Corbyn should resign, he should resign today, and he should drag the rest of his team of morons with him.

 

[phisheep]

Let's not forget that the only party that actually privatised an NHS hospital so far is Labour

And not forgetting that Department of Health figures showed that the amount of its funding that went to “independent sector providers” more than doubled from £4.1bn in 2009-10, to £8.7bn in 2015-16 (Labours last year of power)

Uh, when was Labour last in power?

 

[Bananajama]

Uh, when was Labour last in power?

Typo meant to put that on the 2009/10 section

Apologies

 

[Audioboxer]

Let's not forget that the only party that actually privatised an NHS hospital so far is Labour

And not forgetting that Department of Health figures showed that the amount of its funding that went to ”independent sector providers" more than doubled from £4.1bn in 2009-10, to £8.7bn in 2015-16 (Labours last year of power)

Of course, Labour has had some disastrous reigns in "recent years". Privatisation, illegal wars, you name it. I switched from voting Labour to voting SNP.

The big issue is the Tories are never interested in correcting any of that, but just carrying it on or adding to it. Labour as a party need to go back to being about the people, and genuinely looking out for reasonable interests of all, not just the rich/elite/corporations.

Scotland so far

Also from the BBC news, Greater Manchester turnout, 29%. That is fucking disgusting. 30's is bad enough, but the 20's? Bloody hell.

 

[Hazzuh]

The progressive alliance summed up in one tweet:

the Lib Dems and the Greens say the majority of their 2nd preferences have gone to Andy Street in the West Mids Metro Mayor race

 

[Meadows]

Greater Manchester:

Lab - 63%
Con - 22%
LD - 6%
Green - 2%
English Democrats - 2%
UKIP - 2%
Others - 2%

 

[Huw_Dawson]

The progressive alliance summed up in one tweet:

"Anyone but Corbyn" is the mantra on the doorstep.

 

[JonathanEx]

Part of me did wonder if the most Andy Burnham thing would be for him to have lost.

 

[Uzzy]

The progressive alliance summed up in one tweet:

Lib Dems backing the Tories? I'm shocked. No one could have seen that outcome.

 

[WhatNXt]

Dude, you're sitting here saying Labour and the LDs are comparable? Labour have lost over 300 seats and their vote share is down. We're up four percent and have lost far less seats on ratio than Labour have. We were far better able to defend our seats against the Tory surge than you were!

I'm not forecasting a bright yellow future, I'm telling you that Labour is getting kicked in the balls and it's Corbyn and his mates doing the kicking.

You're arguing over who lost the least. The Lib Dems haven't got the balls to be kicked, and they won't have them either. This isn't a sunny picture for anyone. Except for Maybot of course.

 

[Ghost]

Of course, Labour has had some disastrous reigns in "recent years". Privatisation, illegal wars, you name it. I switched from voting Labour to voting SNP.

The big issue is the Tories are never interested in correcting any of that, but just carrying it on or adding to it. Labour as a party need to go back to being about the people, and genuinely looking out for reasonable interests of all, not just the rich/elite/corporations.
.

Dunno if you've been paying attention, but that hasn't been working too well.

 

[Audioboxer]

Dunno if you've been paying attention, but that hasn't been working too well.

Because Jeremy Corbyn is a terrible leader and the party is full of back-stabbing and Tory lite MPs.

It all needs a clear out. First and foremost they need a far better leader. Corbyn somehow manages to convince the very people he is trying to say he'll work for to go and vote for a party that doesn't really care about them. That is... something else indeed.

 

[Meadows]

I think if they Momentum lot turn up at Burnham's victory celebration there's going to be some friction. This isn't about them, or about Corbyn, it's about Burnham.

If they were anywhere near him then people like me wouldn't have voted for Andy.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

We've lost durham. I cannot describe to you how shit you have to be to lose durham.

 

[Daffy Duck]

More like if you have plenty money and only care about yourself, things are pretty great.

It's mind-boggling watching the lower/middle-class voters, especially in England almost view voting Conservative as a badge to show their status/wealth.... but who you vote for doesn't really decide that as such, it's your bank balance and ability to survive/eat/support your family. The people you vote for (Conservatives) don't give a fuck about you the days after an election when you're knee deep in debt, crying out for help and/or struggling with your health because you can't afford private health-care. You vote for them anyway because better keep that elitist narrative alive that you are a Tory, your family is Tories and so forth.

Conservatives aren't a for the people party, that's supposed to be Labour. It doesn't seem to matter how much reality pie some eat, instead of looking at their chosen side of support it's blaming the immigrants/blame those poorer than me/blame whatever the Daily Mail tells us to blame.

Fucking Labour. Just copy some of the SNPs passion for equality, care for the sick/poor/disabled, inclusiveness of anyone is welcome to live in Scotland/UK, anti-austerity and so forth. Mix that in with a decent leader and actually attack the Tories instead of their wishy-washy opposition and in the North attempt at out Unionist-ing the Tories. Which was never going to happen. The whole party needs a clear out.

I don't get it either!

It would be hilarious seeing the fallout from all this after we leave the EU and the full harsh reality of what these people have voted for comes to light was it not for the fact that I would still be here in this shit hole of a country.

 

[travisbickle]

"Anyone but Corbyn" is the mantra on the doorstep.

Very amusing when May's driving the country off a cliff.

 

[Little Old Man]

I think if they Momentum lot turn up at Burnham's victory celebration there's going to be some friction. This isn't about them, or about Corbyn, it's about Burnham.

If they were anywhere near him then people like me wouldn't have voted for Andy.

His answers pre election on the Labour leadership were very telling. He all but said he was distancing himself from the Labour leadership, and basically don't hold your breath for June 8th.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

You're arguing over who lost the least. The Lib Dems haven't got the balls to be kicked, and they won't have them either. This isn't a sunny picture for anyone. Except for Maybot of course.

We can make a good argument that this is us going in the right direction. Losing a low ratio of seats during a Tory surge - and in England especially in a lot of conservative areas 0 and getting a solid uptick in votes. Labour, on the other hand, has lost everywhere - as far as I can see their only two good results are the Liverpool and Manchester metro elections, which were shoe-ins for them from the start.

Considering how badly we did the last time it was an election year (-400 seats in 2015!) this is a result we can take positives from. For Labour this a nightmare result that should make great swathes of their MPs start sweating, especially in normally red-rosette-on-a-pig areas like the North East and Birmingham.

Very amusing when May's driving the country off a cliff.

Half the country are happy for her to do so, and half of the other half don't want Corbyn to be in charge of driving the country off a cliff.

With Farron still smeared from early in the GE campaign and us coming from a low base, this entire election is guided by Brexit and Corbyn vs May. There's no alternative being presented in the vast majority of seats.

 

[WhatNXt]

Dunno if you've been paying attention, but that hasn't been working too well.

Labour need to get it through their heads that quite a lot of people are selfish cunts who don't care about or just hate other people. Particularly if they're foreign. They will only care for other the welfare of people if they're convinced it works in their own best interests. If you dispute this, please explain the lack of outrage over foodbanks. Conservative messages are getting through because they support the landlord class, they support the financial services class, they support the top percentile who run nearly all of our media -- they speak to the concerns of the traditional family unit. They're all about protecting the individual and his or her job and livelihood from the creeping leeching hands of the undesirables and the other. Labour are prattling on about helping people and lowering inequality and unfairness, but the truth is, the British public don't want to help anyone but themselves. They don't see the danger we might be sleepwalking in to.

 

[Hazzuh]

From one of Ashcroft's focus groups lol:

 

[WhatNXt]

From one of Ashcroft's focus groups lol:

The only way the average voter can experience an Emirates flight is if they try and imagine it really really hard, or google one of those Jennifer Anniston ads on YouTube.

RyanAir and EasyJet are going to be fitting analogies for the governance of the country when we get 5 more years of Conservative government.

 

[Audioboxer]

I don't get it either!

It would be hilarious seeing the fallout from all this after we leave the EU and the full harsh reality of what these people have voted for comes to light was it not for the fact that I would still be here in this shit hole of a country.

Hindsight brow-beating while understandable via desperation and anger is utterly depressing. Failing to convince minds via debate and reasoning in advance is such a huge issue. Hindsight is often just "revenge" based. We need to do better convincing voters before the foundations of the house are nuked. Some decisions like Brexit can never be reversed, others it'll take generations.

It's quite clear the only way that even stands a chance of happening is Corbyn stepping down. Dugdale might need to in Scotland as well, but let's be honest Scottish Labour just parrot whatever gets decided at HQ. At least Dugdale in the past weeks stood up vocally to Davidson and the rape clause. Lesson learned in Scotland is you do not out Unionist the Tories. Another tactic is needed up here. I'm not saying Labour Scotland turns into the Greens and supports Independence, but that they try and find a way to take the SNP on around social policy/empathy and feelings. Powerful ways to sway minds, and as they'll always be a Unionist party at heart it might claw back some flip-floppers who for whatever reason have run off to the Conservatives.

But, Labour HQ in general needs new tactics all round, not just in Scotland. Corbyn literally has the power to make Labour voters flock to Conservatives. One must ask if he's the best Tory MP in disguise to ever exist in the UK? I mean Tony Blair is hated, rightfully so, but Corbyn must be nearly equally as hated?

 

[Dougald]

From one of Ashcroft's focus groups lol:

This being the perception despite the fact that it's only been two years since the last General Election and we don't even have the same Prime Minister any more says a lot about Labours image problem under Corbyn

 

[Jackpot]

Why will the economy crash?
Even if there is a financial hit, wouldn't it be worth it to not have a government that fucks over the most vulnerable, is increasingly xenophobic and clueless in terms of foreign policy and that will fuck the NHS over big time. All while fucking the economy anyway, don't be fooled by UK figures, the only people doing ok are the ones at the top and that's to continue. Wait for more homelessness, more food banks etc.

What currency will you use?

How will you make up the £12 billion shortfall in tax?

How much will no longer being in the Union impact Scotland's exports, given that 70% of it currently goes to the rUK?

How long will it take you to join the EU? Will you have to adopt the euro?

 

[Ghost]

Because Jeremy Corbyn is a terrible leader and the party is full of back-stabbing and Tory lite MPs.

It all needs a clear out. First and foremost they need a far better leader. Corbyn somehow manages to convince the very people he is trying to say he'll work for to go and vote for a party that doesn't really care about them. That is... something else indeed.

Don't disagree about the leader part but I've become increasingly sure over the last 5 years that there simply aren't enough left leaning people in the UK to elect a truly leftwing government. I think that will become clearer when the Labour manifesto comes out, people will say they just don't like Corbyn (true to some extent) what they'll really be thinking is they don't want higher taxes, they don't want a smaller military, they don't want people getting a 'free ride'. Shy Tories are a real thing unfortunately.

 

[Hazzuh]

Thrasher/Rawlings Commons national projection based on #LE2017 results

Con: 349
Lab: 215
LD: 9
Ukip: 0
SNP: 54
Other: 23

Tory majority: 48


Obviously lowballing the Tories quite a bit.

 

[Syder]

Douglas Carswell celebrates death of UKIP

 

[Audioboxer]

Dugdale doubling down on reject independence/Unionist party... Right now that's not winning you anything in Scotland.

Unionists definitely unifying Conservatives in Scotland.

 

[travisbickle]

This being the perception despite the fact that it's only been two years since the last General Election and we don't even have the same Prime Minister any more says a lot about Labours image problem under Corbyn

More like people don't know what the word confidence means. I don't see how anyone has any confidence in any politicians after the recent events?

 

[Meadows]

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Dugdale doubling down on reject independence/Unionist party... Right now that's not winning you anything in Scotland.

Unionists definitely unifying Conservatives in Scotland.

Wow, 26 out of 32 with no control?

Independence is a knife edge issue :/we're not getting it are we?

 

[ferrasvansen]

Wow, 26 out of 32 with no control?

Independence is a knife edge issue :/we're not getting it are we?

I would wait until hard brexit takes its toll, the picture then will be very different.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Durham is Labour controlled, from a good source.

 

[PJV3]

I would wait until hard brexit takes its toll, the picture then will be very different.

That's about it really, things have to be bad for people to take the risk. It might be bad after brexit isn't going to be enough, it's years away unless May loses the plot.

 

[TimmmV]

Don't disagree about the leader part but I've become increasingly sure over the last 5 years that there simply aren't enough left leaning people in the UK to elect a truly leftwing government. I think that will become clearer when the Labour manifesto comes out, people will say they just don't like Corbyn (true to some extent) what they'll really be thinking is they don't want higher taxes, they don't want a smaller military, they don't want people getting a 'free ride'. Shy Tories are a real thing unfortunately.

That depends what you mean by "truly left wing" government I guess. While it feels like a long time ago now, its not that long since we had Blair & Brown, and while far from perfect, Labour under him did a lot of good things.

The big problem is that FPTP gives so much power to the winning party, and that we have a media that is pretty right wing.

Hopefully whenever the Tories fuck up big enough for Labour to be electable in some way, Labour at least give some consideration to Electoral reform, it would hurt them in the short term, but probably hurt the Conservatives more, and be better for the left in general

 

[D4Danger]

Douglas Carswell celebrates death of UKIP

mega mandate™

lol trying to portray May as anti-establishment.