Theonik
Member
I still find that quite odd tbh.
Mostly because the same people that complain about Blair's involvement in Iraq want UK to be involved in Syria and condemn Corbyn for jeopardising our security.
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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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Mostly because the same people that complain about Blair's involvement in Iraq want UK to be involved in Syria and condemn Corbyn for jeopardising our security.
Audioboxer
Member
The Tories rebrand to the Theresa May party continues
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/861510936728883200
And we thought Corbz had a cult of personality etc etc etc
Davidson did this in Scotland, basically making it "appear" that you're voting for her. I mean you are voting for the leader, but the leader is backed by a whole party.
It appeals well to tribalism/us vs them. May represents everything many of the Brexiteers want, with arrogance, coldness, hate, aggression and smugness. Putting a singular face on all of that is more marketable than trying to make it about the party. See how many Leave voters scream about "I'm voting for May!". Sometimes "Conservatives" might not even be mentioned in a sentence, it's all about optics surrounding May.
It worked for Donald Trump, it'll work for May. It's clearly working for Davidson as well stealing spineless Labour voters over to Tories in Scotland. Politicians finding a way to crack the nut of marketing/influencing and herding together droves of the general public. They don't pour millions into PR/stylists/marketing and most likely psychology for nothing.
A reminder why you shouldn't vote for the Lib Dems if you oppose the Tories.
Fool me once, shame on you.
Vince Cable said:
Tim Farron said:
Fool me once, shame on you.
Pyroclastic
Banned
not sure why you'd admit the thatcher thing unless there was a blackmail photo circulating lol
I mean good grief. the last election proved people aren't fussed about tory lite when tory full fat is on the menu. Not winning over anyone on the right and pissing off people on the left even further. genius strategy.
I mean good grief. the last election proved people aren't fussed about tory lite when tory full fat is on the menu. Not winning over anyone on the right and pissing off people on the left even further. genius strategy.
I mean, they did rule out another coalition with the conservatives as well.
It's the same in germany. People essentially vote for Merkel and i'd bet the CDU will lose atleast 10-15% when Merkel quits.
We had some state elections yesterday and less than 50% knew who the leader of CDU Schleswig-Holstein was yet they gained and won the elections based on Merkels (yet again) rising popularity.
Audioboxer
Member
He's "similar" to Bernie, and is popular with a lot of youth as well. American/British public are quite different though, and identity politics isn't as much a thing in the UK. Well, race/ethnicity identity politics anyway. Over here it's more about social class/wealth politics. The middle class/rich hating the poor. Even Brexit in amongst definite xenophobia is still often about rich vs poor. The perception that immigrants are all dirty poor beggers wanting handouts. Britain on average has a dreadful amount of cold-hearted, uncaring people lacking in compassion and being fueled by a Government which tries to unfairly shift so much blame onto the poor, disabled and less fortunate. They've even got the general public believing the poor/immigrants are the sole reason the NHS is failing.
Corbyn is just too divisive and at times a bit too selfish. There's only room for one party of selfishness and that's the Tories. Labour have flown too close to being Tory-lite too often. The UK, and largely England, need a better alternative to the Tories. It still warps the mind how many working class/poor vote Conservative in England, but one has to believe that is because they're being made to believe it's those who are even poorer than them, or the immigrants who are making them worse off. Labour aren't doing a good enough job of showing why compassion, care and positivity is a better alternative than hate, spite and aggression.
It's understandable to a certain degree, and it is why your leader does have to be objectively "good". Which is why Corbyn is tanking, he has many decent beliefs, but just isn't a leader. However, people are stupid as shit if they can't accept a political party is not one person and is a large collection of MPs with many policies. Even in America, it's not "just" the President who runs the country. Far from it.
Well you say they are equivalent, but Corbyn want's nuclear disarmament...imagine how easy it would be to destroy a presidential candidate who wanted that, add in the fact that he's previously voiced sympathy for the IRA and met with members of Hamas (not because he supports terrorism, but because he believes a dialog is necessary to end any conflict).
He holds far too many positions that can attacked by simply not presenting his argument, that's exactly what's happened and it's worked spectacularly.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Vince is allowed his own opinions. He is quite independently minded, and has been for a long time (and he should have stuck on as leader after Ming stepped down).
Someone mentioned Ebbw Vale. Clegg did a special report for Newsnight from there. Very illuminating.
Also the Beeb's debates are bloody awful. Why is the only Leader's Debate going to end up being Farron vs Sturgeon with a live QT audience? Why does Nuttall get his own Election Questions show?
He has history of non-stop fuck-ups that stem from simple incompetence rather than maliciousness.
For example there were accusations of anti-semitism from within the party. After much silence he announces an inquiry into it.
At the publishing of the inquiry's report he made a speech saying "our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those various self-styled Islamic states or organisations.", effectively comparing Israel to ISIS. Views aside, it's a dumb comment to make at an anti-semitism inquiry and instantly undid any goodwill that might be gained from the months of work the report took.
At the same conference, a Momentum leader (the party faction that backs Corbyn) was addressing the event and used it to accuse a Jewish Labour MP of collaborating with right-wing media against Corbyn. Corbyn remained silent and the MP stormed out in tears.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...accused-of-colluding-with-media-a7111061.html
The person appointed by Corbyn to run the inquiry received a peerage from Corbyn shortly after, compromising her impartiality.
Finally a "zero-tolerance" policy was announced on anti-semitism. A long-term trouble maker in the party who was the Mayor of London but is more known for supporting Chavez and other anti-american dictators and being in constant conflict with the party leadership claimed Hitler supported Zionism. Despite this being like his 5th offense in contravening party rules in general, he was only suspended and not expelled. At the announcement of his temporary suspension and claims of Corbyn being soft on anti-semitism again, he immediately repeated the same Hitler-was-a-Zionist views.
Additionally, see:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=234347515&postcount=758
Labour still making progress I see. I have to wonder who the 6% are who would still vote UKIP? Lifelong Labour supporters who can't vote Tory, and the small core of people who actually liked their other "policies" I guess
Ravensmash
Member
Well, there you go.
I expect this lead to grow further when the Conservative expenses scandal gets wider press after the CPS decides.
There's nothing they can do wrong.
sweet, thanks a lot. i work with all the major homebuilders in the US and am always interested to see how things are like in different areas.
Jezbollah
Member
I find myself raising an eyebrow at Labour being so high and the LDs so low..
They've just* announced that they're really going to fuck over immigration, so I wouldn't be surprised to see an upswing in those numbers.
* - at least I've just read it, it might not be that new.
w1ck3dn1nj4
Member
Really? Twat's got some nerve
As much as it seemed, UKIP aren't a single issue party. If you want to bring back hanging and make life for Muslims as uncomfortable as possible, they are the party for you.
Basically, the BNP/EDL vote goes there now.
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/...lay=AllChanged®orseat=(none)&boundary=2015
Conservative will get majority 172
Jezbollah
Member
Goddammm
The Tories only opponent right now: Complacency/Apathy.
They get this insane majority by getting people to the polls....
PJV3
Member
Taking back control by making Theresa untouchable, I don't see why even a regular Tory would want this scenario.
Number 10 can do funny things to people at the best of times.
Normally I'd agree, but it's Labour that's got more of a stake in the flakier (younger) voters. The Cons are backed up by richer, older voters who are more likely to turn up.
This is going to be a bloodbath.
Spuck-uk
Banned
He wasn't expected to win the party leadership, being much more to the left than most of his party. Party members voted him in on a landslide.
The party then spent a year trying to oust him from the party, including a huge proprtion of polliticians resigning from his cabinet, this continued until they managed to get another leadership contest.
He won again.
During this the largely right wing press, the not exactly neutral bbc, and the Liberal press shit all over him constantly.
He's made some questionable decisions as leader, and isn't very media savvy, doesnt speak in soundbites, and this reallly doesn't help his cause.
He's approximately 100x a better human being than May, and 100x more likely to keep his promises than the Lib Dems
Spuck-uk
Banned
That was McDonnell, who would almost certainly be a better leader than Corbyn. Mostly because he takes a delight in hammering the Tories as often and as loudly as possible, and is further to the left.
Just because you made up a new meaning for the word liberal doesn't make it true for everyone else btw. And some of the things he's done go well beyond 'questionable'. And he's not capable of organising a piss up in a brewery, it goes beyond 'doesn't speak in soundbites'. On a fundamental level he is not capable of running a political party. Student politics has been better organised than labour under his reigns
QuicheFontaine
Member
Genuinely thinking of putting a dab on Cons over 50%, 5/2 on Sky Bet...
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Worth giving this interview with his ex-spokesman a read, gives some insight into the amount of shit he has to constantly deal with
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Lmao, what? What definition would that be?
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
No yeah that's pretty accurate
Oh he missed the bit where they take the credit for histprical left-wing successes though
Huw_Dawson
Member
If memory serves...
"We believe EU nationals should have the right to remain!" declares Corbyn.
*Votes through Article 50 without any provisions for right to remain*
*Labour in House of Lords back Lib Dem right to remain motion. A50 returns to Commons*
"We believe EU nationals have the right to remain!" declares Corbyn again.
*Votes through Article 50 again without any provisions for right to remain, and forces Labour in the HoL to vote it through too*
Yeah he's absolutely not all talk no trousers.
Like I said, making up a new definition for a word doesn't do anything other than make you look confused and dumb. No matter how you protest, trying to turn the word liberal into a put down from the left is astonishingly short sighted.
Spuck-uk
Banned
You don't consider the Guardian a Liberal newspaper? Interesting, false, but interesting.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Unlike straight talking definitely doesn't hate the gays personality vacuum Tim 'picture of thatcher over his bed' Farron.
Truly a champion of the left.
Spuck-uk
Banned
You don't understand the word or what it means, nor the fact that Liberalism has been attacked from the left since forever.
Mao had some really choice words on Liberalism*
*and before you try to twist this one, I'm not supporting Mao, you donut.
No, I consider your definition of the word liberal to be bizarre and wrong. Attacking someone for being a liberal by creating your own little neat little definition and then attacking from the left is just ridiculous.
The guardian is a centre left newspaper.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
He's Trump, but on the other end of the scale. Thick, useless, vain, thin skinned, lazy, uneducated with suspicious attitudes towards jews and the west in general.
If that's not just a troll attempt you should really do some reading.
Pyroclastic
Banned
yeah his voting record screams gay hating
this is the shittest talking point ever when are plenty of other contestable ones
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
...you do know that Labour was started because the Liberal party didn't represent the working class and was too right wing, right?
Right?
I do enjoy Huw's commitment to the Lib Dems, acting like they're still at all relevant. It's cute.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Are you American, or do you just read a lot of their media? The European usage of Liberal is very different.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Liberal#Liberalism
I'm absolutely agreeing that the guardian is a centre-left paper. It also supports Liberalism.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Because of a deliberate, effective propaganda campaign against his person from
... basically everyone else... Sometimes including himself.
His policies aren't the problem, at any rate.
Spuck-uk
Banned
At 9% of the projected vote, no less.
Spuck-uk
Banned
I stand corrected on this, cheerfully withdrawn.
I also don't think either of them did anything wrong.
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