jamieson87
Member
I understand it now. Reads quite strange at first Reading though.Green Scar said:
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
UK PoliGAF: General election thread of LibCon Coalitionage
- Thread starter Chinner
- Start date
- Status
Someone else in the Telegraph sticking the boot into Cameron. Going to be interesting to see if Cameron can hold his party together. Most die-hard Tories hate the Lib Dems with a passion.
jamieson87
Member
1954If you think David Cameron is frustrated at finding himself without a majority, spare a thought for poor Great Yarmouth council candidate Bob Peck. Tied on 1,034 votes with Labour opponent Charlie Marsden, he was offered a pack of cards by the returning officer and told the candidate who drew the highest number would win. Mr Peck picked a three while his rival drew a lucky seven to claim the seat. Barmy? Maybe, but it's all within the rules.
Crazy days!
Crazy days!
curls
Wake up Sheeple, your boring insistence that Obama is not a lizardman from Atlantis is wearing on my patience ð¤
Sage00 said:
Inquiry is bullshit and misleading.
Trident needs to be scrapped! What's the point in cutting public spending when you are thinking of giving tax breaks to the very rich and spending billions on a relic of the cold war. Trident is an awful, awful idea.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Hyams said:
Yeah, that clears it up actually. :lol
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Varion said:
Yeah, I've been hooked to iPlayer all day :lol
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Worth noting Spain use PR system since the restauration of democracy in the late 70's.
In these 30 years we've gone from an extremely diverse party system to almost a two-party system with a few leftovers, mostly nationalistic parties.
In these 30 years we've gone from an extremely diverse party system to almost a two-party system with a few leftovers, mostly nationalistic parties.
killer_clank
Member
I'd been up since like 8am yesterday, but I finally had a nap around 5pm tonight. Felt fine for most of the day as well, I even got through an exam without much problems.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
And STILL no one has done a Revolver Ocelot saying Activate the Queen followed by the Queen shooting up with rocket fumes gif!
Been at work all day trying to follow what's going on, and just gorged on an hour of news when I got in.
Reading about what was happening via the beeb was exciting, and not as disappointing as I feared when I woke up. However, reflecting on things, I'm pretty disappointed. Lib Dems are fucked no matter what they do. When I first heard Clegg was talking with Cameron, I figured it was part of a game plan and there was no chance they'd link up.
Now though... I actually think it could happen, and the chance of electoral reform disappearing with it. No matter what they do, they're screwed. Take the Tory option and get nowhere near what they want, as well as the blame for anything that goes wrong, and alienating their voter base to boot; go Labour and incur the wrath of the Tories, their voters, and all their cheerleaders; or go with neither and get the flack for putting party before country as well as losing favours from either party. Electoral reform, generally speaking, wasn't one of the big issues of the election - making a move on that issue alone will difficult to pitch. I'd be OK with them going Lab-Lib to get electoral reform through, but I'd question if that was fair. And that's even if they could actually do it!
Right wing press will be especially nauseating about it all. The Evening Standard called Labour's 26% share of the vote "dismal" but apparently the Tories have a mandate to govern with 38%. The Sun, The Mail et al will come out tomorrow, highlighting the arguments and the rules that benefit the Tories, but ignoring the other rules where, y'know, this is actually how the system works in situations like these and nothing too egregious has happened yet.
Oh well, here's hoping some good can come out of it...
Reading about what was happening via the beeb was exciting, and not as disappointing as I feared when I woke up. However, reflecting on things, I'm pretty disappointed. Lib Dems are fucked no matter what they do. When I first heard Clegg was talking with Cameron, I figured it was part of a game plan and there was no chance they'd link up.
Now though... I actually think it could happen, and the chance of electoral reform disappearing with it. No matter what they do, they're screwed. Take the Tory option and get nowhere near what they want, as well as the blame for anything that goes wrong, and alienating their voter base to boot; go Labour and incur the wrath of the Tories, their voters, and all their cheerleaders; or go with neither and get the flack for putting party before country as well as losing favours from either party. Electoral reform, generally speaking, wasn't one of the big issues of the election - making a move on that issue alone will difficult to pitch. I'd be OK with them going Lab-Lib to get electoral reform through, but I'd question if that was fair. And that's even if they could actually do it!
Right wing press will be especially nauseating about it all. The Evening Standard called Labour's 26% share of the vote "dismal" but apparently the Tories have a mandate to govern with 38%. The Sun, The Mail et al will come out tomorrow, highlighting the arguments and the rules that benefit the Tories, but ignoring the other rules where, y'know, this is actually how the system works in situations like these and nothing too egregious has happened yet.
Oh well, here's hoping some good can come out of it...
brain_stew
Member
OMG Aero said:
Should be, he said it at least twice during the coverage.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Yup, Lib Dems are fucked either way.SFA_AOK said:
Nobody with any sense will ever vote for them ever again, especially if they pick the Blue side when they have no intention of voting reform.
HIGNFY was on instead of the repeat QI.
Is that the Tories' formal offer or just stuff Cameron mentioned as openers in his speech? Either way the above is only thing that isn't already Tory policy or total BS.
And whatever party the Lib Dems choose, supporters should want it to work. If it fails and we're back to the polls in the next few months it proves exactly what Lab + Con want it to. That coaliton govs are "inefficient and unstable", and that you really do have to vote for 1 of the 2 main parties. No room for a third. If it works then the Libs get plenty of face time and it shows that choosing a 3rd party option can work.
Sage00 said:
Is that the Tories' formal offer or just stuff Cameron mentioned as openers in his speech? Either way the above is only thing that isn't already Tory policy or total BS.
And whatever party the Lib Dems choose, supporters should want it to work. If it fails and we're back to the polls in the next few months it proves exactly what Lab + Con want it to. That coaliton govs are "inefficient and unstable", and that you really do have to vote for 1 of the 2 main parties. No room for a third. If it works then the Libs get plenty of face time and it shows that choosing a 3rd party option can work.
blazinglord
Member
I heard on BBC news that a quarter of the Labour MPs oppose PR, including some cabinet members. Considering that even if Labour and Lib Dems combine forces they would still fall short of a comfortable majority! So there's no guarantee they'd actually be able to get it onto the statue book. Plus, that's not even mentioning whether the House of Lords would pass the said bill, or the inevitable vociferous No campaign backed by the press portraying the change as gerrymandering. So I think PR is unlikely to be implemented any time soon. AV possibly, but I think in the unlikely event of a referendum, a no vote would still probably win.cjelly said:
What the Lib Dems really ought to have done is pledged on their manifesto that they fully intend to implement electoral reform without a referendum.
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
Pfff, so the Tories are willing to make a committee to look into election reform if the Lib Dems team up with them? They might as well say that it just isn't going to happen. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think they'd give it any serious consideration. Some of the Conservatives are so fundamentally against the LD that I don't see such a coalition lasting long at all. It just doesn't make sense for the Lib Dems to team up with anyone but Labour right now. They have a golden opportunity to bring the Tories to their knees pretty much forever by bringing in an STV system. It's hard to imagine the two parties not getting together and making it happen.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
SFA_AOK said:
I take the opposite view. This could be a very exciting government.
OK, there is lots of short term stuff to sort out very quickly, but potentially there are the ingredients for one of the all-time great reforming governments. Shared ideas across a widely divergent group working under pressure against external forces tends to bring out the best in a government. And taking the Libdems with extra pragmatism with the Tories with fresh ideas could be a wonderful combination.
Could last a full term and leave a fantastic legacy.
We don't have to be miserable about it.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Twitter has spoken: #dontdoitnick is trending. :lol
http://twitter.com/#search?q=#DontdoitNick
http://whatthetrend.com/trend/#dontdoitnick
http://twitter.com/#search?q=#DontdoitNick
http://whatthetrend.com/trend/#dontdoitnick
I'll say this much, this election is crazy. Last night I was expecting my first election to be a depressing Conservative majority - and it's pretty much turned out to be one of the most fascinating elections in a long time. Pretty amazing one to have as your first really.
I dunno, I find myself happier thinking of it this way rather than whether we're screwed or not, I'm going to stick with it.
I dunno, I find myself happier thinking of it this way rather than whether we're screwed or not, I'm going to stick with it.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Varion said:
I'll second that. I grew up in the seventies when we seemed to have an election about every other Thursday, and you'd learn quite quickly which were the interesting ones and which weren't.
Then it got all boring and tedious for what seems like about a century.
This one has been a breath of fresh air and a good taste of practical politics that is not, for a change, buried under an ideological monstrosity of a landslide victory.
Just my thoughts on the results:
I didn't know what to think when I heard what happened. The Lib Dems getting almost a quarter of the vote but losing seats is just incredible and is the biggest reason for reforming the current system. The BNP losing all of their council seats makes me think that people in general are sensible enough to prevent parties like these from getting into power, although recent news suggests that the BNP is close to self-destruction.
Labour did about what I expected; of all the things, I think bigot-gate probably cost them way more votes than seems obvious and once this is all over, he will surely HAVE to resign. I actually prefer Miliband to Brown anyway, though I have to feel sorry for him. The media have contributed quite greatly to his downfall, blaming him for just about everything bad that has happened.
Tories did much better than I thought, even with those exit polls. It's the way they got in that sickens me. A massive campaign paid for with tainted money, secret backroom deals to cause a national smear campaign as well as Murdoch's obscene involvement in the way certain media establishments were run. I also thought a lot more people would have seen through his hypocrisy, but apparently not; I thought his 'big society' thing was simply the most dreadful, patronising way of saying where his budget cuts are going to come into play.
Overall though, I'm happy the hung parliament fear mongering failed, because right now, this seems the only way to get actual reform through. From the looks of things, the Lib Dems will side with the Tories, which actually might be a good idea so long as they keep idiot Osbourne out of the cabinet. But I'm vastly more in favour of a Lab/Lib coalition simply because they have the best policies for me.
On another note, I heard the Lib Dems had finally been kicked out of my council; after years of having the highest council tax besides London with inferior services, I'll be glad to see a bit of change round here; I just hope the Lib Dems as a whole are more sensible than what we've just gotten rid of here.
I didn't know what to think when I heard what happened. The Lib Dems getting almost a quarter of the vote but losing seats is just incredible and is the biggest reason for reforming the current system. The BNP losing all of their council seats makes me think that people in general are sensible enough to prevent parties like these from getting into power, although recent news suggests that the BNP is close to self-destruction.
Labour did about what I expected; of all the things, I think bigot-gate probably cost them way more votes than seems obvious and once this is all over, he will surely HAVE to resign. I actually prefer Miliband to Brown anyway, though I have to feel sorry for him. The media have contributed quite greatly to his downfall, blaming him for just about everything bad that has happened.
Tories did much better than I thought, even with those exit polls. It's the way they got in that sickens me. A massive campaign paid for with tainted money, secret backroom deals to cause a national smear campaign as well as Murdoch's obscene involvement in the way certain media establishments were run. I also thought a lot more people would have seen through his hypocrisy, but apparently not; I thought his 'big society' thing was simply the most dreadful, patronising way of saying where his budget cuts are going to come into play.
Overall though, I'm happy the hung parliament fear mongering failed, because right now, this seems the only way to get actual reform through. From the looks of things, the Lib Dems will side with the Tories, which actually might be a good idea so long as they keep idiot Osbourne out of the cabinet. But I'm vastly more in favour of a Lab/Lib coalition simply because they have the best policies for me.
On another note, I heard the Lib Dems had finally been kicked out of my council; after years of having the highest council tax besides London with inferior services, I'll be glad to see a bit of change round here; I just hope the Lib Dems as a whole are more sensible than what we've just gotten rid of here.
Considering Osborne seems to be attending all the cross-party talks, I really don't think he's on anyone's chopping block at the moment even if they did take Major's advice and let some Lib Dems into important cabinet positions.Garjon said:
Anyway almost 11am, been up since 3pm yesterday, I think it's finally time to call it a night :lol
yeah, the lib dems have a pretty awful record on the council level, garjon.
few tidbits from the guardian
there was a article by alex massie in the spectator arguing that the tories giving the LD's prop rep in exchange for very strong support wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. maybe something for cameron to consider.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/alexmassie/5979894/do-the-deal-dave.thtml
i think this is a given, and carries through party members to the actual supporters judging by twitter at least. i don't think clegg would be able to get away with a few crumbs and graylings' seat on the cabinet, he needs something much bigger to win them over, if possible.
this makes sense.
few tidbits from the guardian
there was a article by alex massie in the spectator arguing that the tories giving the LD's prop rep in exchange for very strong support wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. maybe something for cameron to consider.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/alexmassie/5979894/do-the-deal-dave.thtml
i think this is a given, and carries through party members to the actual supporters judging by twitter at least. i don't think clegg would be able to get away with a few crumbs and graylings' seat on the cabinet, he needs something much bigger to win them over, if possible.
this makes sense.
I've got some speculations/thoughts too about what's happening...
This is just the first act of a longer (3 act?) play
This will show us who is good at political poker rather than who is good at running the country.
Debate about PR/FPTP and electoral reform is something people want, yet distracts us from other important issues. In addition, perhaps we can't even address the more important issues until fair voting is sorted out.
Are the really tallented politicians waiting this one out? (because this lot don't look too clever)
A stronger campaign from lib-dem could have seen Clegg as PM this year.
Moving to the country is not all it's cracked up to be.
Everything I say has already been said before.
Never have I seen so many interested in party politics; has this been engineered for hype? / conspiracy theory
It's a good idea to learn auction lingo, because you never know when there'll be no new produce.
Voters won because none of the candidates addressed the press this morning with a win-face.
This is just the first act of a longer (3 act?) play
This will show us who is good at political poker rather than who is good at running the country.
Debate about PR/FPTP and electoral reform is something people want, yet distracts us from other important issues. In addition, perhaps we can't even address the more important issues until fair voting is sorted out.
Are the really tallented politicians waiting this one out? (because this lot don't look too clever)
A stronger campaign from lib-dem could have seen Clegg as PM this year.
Moving to the country is not all it's cracked up to be.
Everything I say has already been said before.
Never have I seen so many interested in party politics; has this been engineered for hype? / conspiracy theory
It's a good idea to learn auction lingo, because you never know when there'll be no new produce.
Voters won because none of the candidates addressed the press this morning with a win-face.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
The way I see it, all the parties involved only stand to lose integrity. They have been keen to highlight their differences over the last few months - now they are suddenly back-peddling on it in the pursuit of power. Labour and the Tories scrambling to find common ground with the Lib Dems is pretty hilarious.
Shanadeus said:
I think even the Lib Dems can admit this but getting an economic strategy sorted out is more imporant. If DaveCam managed to convince the old Tory guard to give a LibDem a position in the cabinent and at the end of the year the progress the coalition to be reviewed. Then Clegg would surely snap up such opportunity.
What they need to take into account is the main issue surrounding this election was always going to be the recession. Britain has voted decisively in favour of political parties who support a progressive approach to dealing with the budget deficit, delaying the biggest cuts until the economy can handle it. A Tory govt. with Tory cuts was voted against, and the Lib Dems better not support a budget that has anything like what was outlined in the Conservative manifesto.
APZonerunner
Member
Bravo, the Sun. Even as an anti Conservative this is a great front page. :lol
firehawk12
Subete no aware
APZonerunner said:
Bravo, the Sun. Even as an anti Conservative this is a great front page. :lol
Love it. :lol
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked