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UK PoliGAF: General election thread of LibCon Coalitionage

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I

Incognito

Troll
APZonerunner said:
2r6li0l.png


Bravo, the Sun. Even as an anti Conservative this is a great front page. :lol
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"Man, 59..." :lol :lol :lol
 
F

fizzelopeguss

Banned
Brown has barred the gates to number 10, cameron is gonna have to lay siege and burn him out. The trebuchet and boiling oil is already being prepared.
 
M

mclem

Member
Out of interest, are elections generally on Thursdays precisely to allow a weekend to fix up stuff like this before the markets get to go *too* nuts (and indeed get nutsier as the situation persists)?
It always struck me as a rather odd day, but now I'm seeing advantages.
 
D

Dark Machine

Member
I think something we have to really take into account with all this dealmaking is the parties themselves. These Leaders clearly don't rule their parties with iron fists or absolutism, so you've got to wonder how many concessions they'll be allowed to make, especially after people on the ground worked so hard (and in the LD case are very very angry at the press etc.) on the campaign. Clegg can't make deals arbitrarily because of the 3-Lock system on the LD party. Cameron's backbenches are full of hardliners who might try and kick him out since they failed to gain a majority as we've seen already. And Labour is fraught with factions and refuses to break the habit of blaming Brown for everything.

Yes we've got a recession on, but damnit, I WANT MY F**KING VOTE! I demand that my vote is never notionally wasted again in a national election. I at least want a damned chance to have my voice heard, instead of having the 0.11 of a vote I actually have because of where I live.

Hard mode solution = Cross-party task force on the Financial Crisis, pass bill on reducing the defecit and have all parties sign up to implement it no matter who is the winner of the next election by law. Then push the STV-PR bill through. Call election in 6 months or whenever. God almighty you'd think they'd be able to work together on SOMETHING.
 
M

mclem

Member
phisheep said:
I'll second that. I grew up in the seventies when we seemed to have an election about every other Thursday, and you'd learn quite quickly which were the interesting ones and which weren't.

Then it got all boring and tedious for what seems like about a century.

This one has been a breath of fresh air and a good taste of practical politics that is not, for a change, buried under an ideological monstrosity of a landslide victory.
Click to expand...

One of the things that's truly bizarre television but also a stonkingly good idea, if you're not aware: Periodically, when Parliament's not in session (bank holidays, usually), BBC Parliament will often show a classic election. Almost in its entirety.

Reviews of the repeats:
'70: http://www.offthetelly.co.uk/?p=4937
'74: http://www.offthetelly.co.uk/?p=4591
'83: http://www.offthetelly.co.uk/?p=2269

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Parliament#General_election_repeats for the full list

I've never had a chance to catch the '74 programme. I'd like to. And I'm pretty sure that if they keep it going, this one'll enter the rota.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
One thing is certain; with the lack of a majority, all the trouble with thousands of voters not being able to vote and tons of pressure already being exerted on Cameron from the old-school tories, we're heading for another election sooner rather than later.

Labour could stand a chance, too. They need to get rid of Brown and replace him with someone young and fresh faced, not Balls as he's fat and smug and far too associated with Brown's government. My pick would be Miliband. He's been in Brown's government but from a distance, he's handled the foreign office very well, and he's young and alright looking. Good combo.
 
D

Dark Machine

Member
APZonerunner said:
One thing is certain; with the lack of a majority, all the trouble with thousands of voters not being able to vote and tons of pressure already being exerted on Cameron from the old-school tories, we're heading for another election sooner rather than later.

Labour could stand a chance, too. They need to get rid of Brown and replace him with someone young and fresh faced, not Balls as he's fat and smug and far too associated with Brown's government. My pick would be Miliband. He's been in Brown's government but from a distance, he's handled the foreign office very well, and he's young and alright looking. Good combo.
Click to expand...

Balls nearly got the Portillo moment yesterday too. I'm sure there's plenty of people who would move to his damn constituency just to have the pleasure of voting him out. He'll take Labour backwards, his even less likable than Brown.

Edit: Just worked out the possible opposing sides if things go as the pundits say they will (yeah right!)

Tory/DUP/Independant NI MP 'Conservative' Coalition - 315 Seats (Though the Indy NI MP doesn't like the DUP or Tories so could be 314)

Labour/Lib Dem/SNP/SDLP/Green/Alliance (NI) 'Progressive' Coalition - 326 Seats (with Plaid Cymru 329 Seats, if Indy NI MP defects 330)

Judging by Twitter, a lot of people want to see the Progressive Rainbow coalition. Then again, many of the young and vocal seem to hate the Tories so it's still all "errrr..." from the public really. :D

Edit 2: Just remembered, with Sinn Féin abstaining, that brings the winning post to just 321 Seats right? In which case the Progressives may not need PC or the Greens to win, though the SNP (Salmond seems to be more up for reasonable compromise than PC) would still be needed.
 
F

fizzelopeguss

Banned
APZonerunner said:
One thing is certain; with the lack of a majority, all the trouble with thousands of voters not being able to vote and tons of pressure already being exerted on Cameron from the old-school tories, we're heading for another election sooner rather than later.

Labour could stand a chance, too. They need to get rid of Brown and replace him with someone young and fresh faced, not Balls as he's fat and smug and far too associated with Brown's government. My pick would be Miliband. He's been in Brown's government but from a distance, he's handled the foreign office very well, and he's young and alright looking. Good combo.
Click to expand...


Millaband is a rat like little cunt.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
APZonerunner said:
One thing is certain; with the lack of a majority, all the trouble with thousands of voters not being able to vote and tons of pressure already being exerted on Cameron from the old-school tories, we're heading for another election sooner rather than later.

Labour could stand a chance, too. They need to get rid of Brown and replace him with someone young and fresh faced, not Balls as he's fat and smug and far too associated with Brown's government. My pick would be Miliband. He's been in Brown's government but from a distance, he's handled the foreign office very well, and he's young and alright looking. Good combo.
Click to expand...

tories would lose alot of marginals too. nothing gives a crash course in tactical voting like a recent election, and there was n'ary a marginal the tories could have won if both the progressives pooled their electorates. i'm sure some of the 8 thousand labour supporters will happily donate their vote to lib's in my home constituency come a re-run, where the tories have a 500 vote majority, now they know the stakes.
 
K

Kowak

Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
It's the same rule with NY POST headlines occasionally (must be a News Corp thing), awful fucking paper, but genius headlines every now and then
Click to expand...


There really is an art to stupidity at times.
 
G

Gary Whitta

Member
Read an interesting piece in the Torygraph today about how no coalition government in the UK has lasted longer than eight months and most constitutional/electoral experts fully expect another general election to be held before the end of the year.
 
M

mclem

Member
Gary Whitta said:
Read an interesting piece in the Torygraph today about how no coalition government in the UK has lasted longer than eight months and most constitutional/electoral experts fully expect another general election to be held before the end of the year.
Click to expand...

I do wonder if the real long-term winner will be the party that *isn't* part of the coalition. If it ends up a clusterfuck, with the country the way it is right now, being disassociated with it could be the best situation to be in.

Although that is rather presumptive; I think that while there's some situations where never the twain shall meet, there's a lot of potential matchups which could work pretty well.
 
K

Kowak

Banned
Gary Whitta said:
Read an interesting piece in the Torygraph today about how no coalition government in the UK has lasted longer than eight months and most constitutional/electoral experts fully expect another general election to be held before the end of the year.
Click to expand...

Another election this year will cripple the democrats. They just dont have the finances to fight another one this year.

Labour need to just tell gordon to go and elect one of the Chuckle brothers, preferably Milibanana, or Alan Johnson.(Ed Balls reaction yesterday cost him any chance of leadership). They can then regroup and act as an effective opposition. The hand over also needs to be quick. A messy leadership battle will ruin Labour if there is another election this year.
 
D

Dambrosi

Banned
fizzelopeguss said:
Milliband is a rat like little cunt.
Click to expand...
See? You wouldn't be calling him that if he were old.

Were I a Labour spin doctor, I'd say that a distinction needs to be made by Labour between the "old", tired Thatcherite dogma of the "stuck in the 80s" Tories (who are seen as the "traditionalist" party anyway) versus the "new", fresh, progressive policies of Labour and the Lib Dems, taking Britain forward into the 21st Century rather than back to the 1980's (though, of course, the emphasis needs to be on the positive, with the threat of Tory-led regression merely implicit). A new way to frame the "Change" agenda without stinking of Obama-idolatry, and just the thing for a new candidate to differentiate his leadership from Brown's.

And I can't believe I'm agreeing with Kowak, but he's right. There'll be no election later this year, since all the parties need time to regroup and recover. Plus, y'know, Christmas. Do you really want to be bothered with an election campaign when you just want to get your present shopping over with? It would just serve to annoy the electorate even further. Next May is my bet.

However, I do believe that Brown will stay on as PM until the Queen's Speech at most. Then he's gone, no matter what.
 
D

Dark Machine

Member
I NEED SCISSORS said:
He's 44, so he's getting there.
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44 is damn young for a leading politician. I mean Clegg and Cameron are 43 and they're considered very young leaders. It takes time to kiss enough arse to become a leader ya know. :D
 
I

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Dark Machine said:
44 is damn young for a leading politician. I mean Clegg and Cameron are 43 and they're considered very young leaders. It takes time to kiss enough arse to become a leader ya know. :D
Click to expand...

IIRC Tony Blair was the youngest PM our country's ever had. He was 44 in 1997.
 
K

killer_clank

Member
mclem said:
Out of interest, are elections generally on Thursdays precisely to allow a weekend to fix up stuff like this before the markets get to go *too* nuts (and indeed get nutsier as the situation persists)?
It always struck me as a rather odd day, but now I'm seeing advantages.
Click to expand...

There's an urban legand that says it's because most people get paid on Thursdays, so poorer people in the past wouldn't have enough money to go and get drunk on election days., and hence increasing the likelihood of them voting drunk.

In all probability though it'll just have been the day that stuck and nobody really questioned it. Even though it is a weekday, you really have no excuse for not voting.
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
industrian said:
IIRC Tony Blair was the youngest PM our country's ever had. He was 44 in 1997.
Click to expand...

Well, except for Pitt the Younger in 1783. At 24 years old.

BBC said:
1135: Liberal Democrat sources have told the BBC's Jon Soppel that Gordon Brown delivered a diatribe laced with threats when he spoke to Nick Clegg last night by phone. It was in sharp contrast to the respectful and constructive talk between David Cameron and Mr Clegg, they added.
Click to expand...


... and Gordon blows any chance of government
 
M

Mama Robotnik

Member
(from BBC's election coverage wall)

BREAKING NEWS

Liberal Democrat sources have told the BBC's Jon Soppel that Gordon Brown delivered a diatribe laced with threats when he spoke to Nick Clegg last night by phone. It was in sharp contrast to the respectful and constructive talk between David Cameron and Mr Clegg, they added.

Brown is fucking insane.
 
D

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
I imagine Brown is on a Nokia throwing, secretary pushing rampage in Number 10 at the moment ...

Over to you Taiwan!
 
F

faridmon

Member
Mama Robotnik said:
(from BBC's election coverage wall)

BREAKING NEWS

Liberal Democrat sources have told the BBC's Jon Soppel that Gordon Brown delivered a diatribe laced with threats when he spoke to Nick Clegg last night by phone. It was in sharp contrast to the respectful and constructive talk between David Cameron and Mr Clegg, they added.

Brown is fucking insane.[/B]
Click to expand...

tell me something new, mate.
 
B

blazinglord

Member
Dambrosi said:
However, I do believe that Brown will stay on as PM until the Queen's Speech at most. Then he's gone, no matter what.
Click to expand...
On BBC news last night the Royal spokesman said that there's this arcane legislation which allows the PM to bypass the Queen's Speech if he remains PM and has the hypothetical but not guaranteed support of the other parties to continuing governing.

Nice to see that Brown is shooting himself in the foot again with his telephone diatribe to Clegg.
 
D

DSWii60

Member
Brown knows he's gone that's why he went all out on Clegg. Even a Lab-Lib coalition would just barely surpass the Tory total and wouldn't make a majority either so it would be unworkable anyway.

3 things could happen now:

1. Tory minority government - Might work out but very risky for Cameron.
2. Tory-Lib agreement - Probably what's going to happen. The hardcore in both parties wouldn't want a coalition but an "agreement" may be a way to save face and get some legislation through.
3. Tory-Lib coalition - Risky for everyone involved but probably best for the country if it works out.

Whatever happens I expect another election fairly soon.
 
X

Xavien

Member
Linkified said:
I think even the Lib Dems can admit this but getting an economic strategy sorted out is more imporant. If DaveCam managed to convince the old Tory guard to give a LibDem a position in the cabinent and at the end of the year the progress the coalition to be reviewed. Then Clegg would surely snap up such opportunity.
Click to expand...

Clegg doesn't have absolute rule in the LD, he'll have to take the shitty deal to the party members. I cannot imagine they would say yes to it.
 
T

Tim the Wiz

Banned
Mama Robotnik said:
(from BBC's election coverage wall)

BREAKING NEWS

Liberal Democrat sources have told the BBC's Jon Soppel that Gordon Brown delivered a diatribe laced with threats when he spoke to Nick Clegg last night by phone. It was in sharp contrast to the respectful and constructive talk between David Cameron and Mr Clegg, they added.

Brown is fucking insane.
Click to expand...

jack_bauer_torture1.jpg

"I might a devil, but the Tories are the devils!"

So, like Bauer, he only has two modes of negotiation - whispering and shouting?
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Mama Robotnik said:
(from BBC's election coverage wall)

BREAKING NEWS

Liberal Democrat sources have told the BBC's Jon Soppel that Gordon Brown delivered a diatribe laced with threats when he spoke to Nick Clegg last night by phone. It was in sharp contrast to the respectful and constructive talk between David Cameron and Mr Clegg, they added.

Brown is fucking insane.
Click to expand...

Judging by twitter etc. I think there's a lot of lib dems who'd deliver a threat-laced diatribe if they could talk to Nick Clegg right now...
 
V

Veidt

Blasphemer who refuses to accept bagged milk as his personal savior
Clegg really hates Brown doesn't he?
Brown probably feels like there's no hope left, he doesn't have anything to lose. fuck it. shout, shout let it out..

"in violent times, you shouldn't have to sell your soul...Clegg.."
 
R

RedShift

Member
Poor Dimbleby, 20 hours later and he's back.

Am I the only one who hates Liam Fox? Not sure why, everytime he speaks he just annoys me.
 
E

Empty

Member
this is a seriously difficult place for clegg to be in, though he gets massive influence, there are massive downsides for taking either the red or the blue pill.
 
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