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UK PoliGAF: General election thread of LibCon Coalitionage

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C

Cindres

Vied for a tag related to cocks, so here it is.
Lucius86 said:
Isn't that the same for the 'True Reds' and the 'True Yellows'? Some people will always have their goggles on, and will always support the same team.

I clearly need to re-watch the debate, because I thought Cameron didn't do that badly at all, and thought Clegg was a bit unprofessional - but with all the praise for Clegg so far, I must have been distracted thanks to my gf nattering to me all the way through.
Click to expand...

I'm being yellow but trying to stay cautious here.
Though i may go on to tesco express and buy a couple of papers today, possibly The Times today.

My main worry is Clegg knows the position he's in and is doing a massively fucking good job of acting to get where he wants to be, but the way he performed last night i don't really believe that's the truth.
 
D

defel

Member
Whats also interesting is that will expectations now be reset? Will Clegg go into the next debate with too high expectations? Could Brown be going in with too low expectations? Political nerds at the BBC and the papers are probably in heaven right now.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Lucius86 said:
Isn't that the same for the 'True Reds' and the 'True Yellows'? Some people will always have their goggles on, and will always support the same team.

I clearly need to re-watch the debate, because I thought Cameron didn't do that badly at all, and thought Clegg was a bit unprofessional - but with all the praise for Clegg so far, I must have been distracted thanks to my gf nattering to me all the way through.
Click to expand...
Oh absolutely (although I'm not sure I've ever met a True Yellow). My father is a 'True Red' and I don't need to ask him who he thinks 'won' last night. It's just interesting to see the perception of people entrenched in their party of choice. Cameron could have promised to dismantle the NHS and use the savings to send us all to Afghanistan and there are still some that'd cheer him on because of the colour of his tie.
 
G

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
Cameron pretty much lost me when he name checked his son twice, sickens me to the core to hear him use his kids as political toys.


Clegg did well but does it really matter? I live in one of the most marginal seats in the country, and I got a leaflet from the labour MP saying there's 2% in it between them and the tories (according to a poll performed by the local paper), which is something like 500 votes, Lib dems are a distant third scrapping it out with the Greens (this is Brighton, not too shameful).

I don't think I can justify voting for the Lib Dems because in every practical sense it would just be a vote for the tories.
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
Ghost said:
Clegg did well but does it really matter? I live in one of the most marginal seats in the country, and I got a leaflet from the labour MP saying there's 2% in it between them and the tories (according to a poll performed by the local paper), which is something like 500 votes, Lib dems are a distant third scrapping it out with the Greens (this is Brighton, not too shameful).

I don't think I can justify voting for the Lib Dems because in every practical sense it would just be a vote for the tories.
Click to expand...

Does it really matter? Depends how many people actually believed what they were saying in the poll that showed >60% of people were more likely to vote Lib Dem than before the debate.

I feel your pain regarding your vote in a Labour-Tory battlefield. Look at it this way, though; if you vote Lib Dem and that lets the tories in locally, that could be part of a result that prevents Labour from having an overall majority - thus allowing the Lib Dems to have a big say in national government one way or another.

It's too easy to get caught up in analysis paralysis in these situations. I'd always tend to prefer casting my vote for the candidate I want to win (and I'd like a better voting system that makes it easier to do that without unintended consequences).
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
iapetus said:
I'd always tend to prefer casting my vote for the candidate I want to win (and I'd like a better voting system that makes it easier to do that without unintended consequences).
Click to expand...
Yet another reason we should vote Lib Dem, to bring in proportional representation. No more 35% majorities.
 
O

Omikaru

Member
dalyr95 said:
Thought the greens had quite a good chance in Brighton of getting the seat: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7099181.ece

Think there was something in the Standard as well.
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The Greens are a media darling; they have such an easy ride and, at every election, they get unfairly bigged up by the news only to come behind parties like UKIP and BNP in most local and national polls.

Besides the fact that the hype surrounding them is artificially inflated, they're also the 'moon on a stick' party and aren't worth voting for. They create a shopping list of uncosted and impractical policies in their manifestos, have dubious anti-science policies that make them look like hippies and (according to most people who work in councils where the Greens have seats) they squabble amongst themselves and try their damndest to oppose any and everything forwarded by the majority party primarily to stifle progress. Then, at the next election, the accuse the incumbent opposition of being a "do nothing councillor". It's quite a slimy tactic, to be frank, and they don't have the interests of the electorate at heart when they oppose policies (some which their manifestos would claim they agree with).

Despite what the media says (and for what absurd reason, I don't know) the Greens can't be taken seriously.
 
S

Salazar

Member
Incidentally, the history of the Sun, 'Stick it Up Your Punter !', by Peter Chippindale and Chris Horrie, is gloriously interesting. Repulsive, but enthralling.
 
Z

Zutroy

Member
Just finished watching the debate on the ITV player (link if someone wants it)

I thought like most, that Clegg come out tops. Followed by Brown with Cameron being last. Whenever Brown went head-to-head with Cameron, I felt he always came out on top.

The outcome is swaying my mum to vote Lib Dems. I'd like to vote for them as well, but as much as I hate to say it, it just seems like a wasted vote.
 
C

Cindres

Vied for a tag related to cocks, so here it is.
Everyone needs to get out of this "wasted vote" mindset. Shit like that is gonna keep us on this Blue/Red back and forth government that we've had for the past 60 odd years.

If you like it, vote for it.
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
New ComRes/ITV poll just out:

CON 36 (-3), LDEM 35 (+14), LAB 24 (-3)

Edit:
David Cowling, editor of the BBC's Political Research Unit, has been examining that ITV/ComRes poll. He says: "This was not a voting intention poll but a panel of people who watched the debate and then gave their voting intentions afterwards. This is not a national random sample of the population - some 46 million people - but a sample of the nine million who watched the debate and we have no certainty that the sample even speak representatively for them."
Click to expand...
 
J

jas0nuk

Member
CON 36 (-3), LDEM 35 (+14), LAB 24 (-3)

Please be true. :lol
Conservative minority/majority with Liberals as the official opposition. Labour annihiliated.
England back to the Tory/Whig era!
 
I

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Hopefully Clegg won't let this shit go to his head and turn him into another David "Prepare for government" Steel.
 
D

defel

Member
Its also worth remembering that the debate is similar to the budget - it might take a few days for the polls to settle down before we really know how impactful the debate will be. The LibDems will undoubtably rise in the polls, the question everyone wants to know is where the Lib Dem votes will be coming from, Labour or the Conservatives.
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
CRD90 said:
I'd like to vote for them as well, but as much as I hate to say it, it just seems like a wasted vote.
Click to expand...

What would happen if all the people who'd like to vote Lib Dem but think it's a wasted vote actually voted Lib Dem?
 
D

Dabookerman

Member
Cindres said:
Everyone needs to get out of this "wasted vote" mindset. Shit like that is gonna keep us on this Blue/Red back and forth government that we've had for the past 60 odd years.

If you like it, vote for it.
Click to expand...

Yup, precisely. Couldn't give a shit if Lib Dems WERE nobodies, I'm voting with the party I most agree with, and they don't have as bad a reputation as Labour or Conservative.

It's pretty obvious for me.
 
J

jas0nuk

Member
Seriously though, ignore all polls until post-debate analysis has thoroughly sunk into the public view. Saturday evening polls for the Sunday papers will be extremely interesting.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
SmokyDave said:
The only wasted vote is the vote that is never cast.
Click to expand...
on this other forum theres this guy voting bnp ironically to show that he 'doesn't care' and that he wants to 'send the politicians a message'

always gotta lol when people try to act cool on the internet.
 
N

Numpt3

Member
jas0nuk said:
“Volcanic Ash Troubles the World”
Labour gives the ash benefits and a council house.
The Conservatives vow to remove bureaucracy, quangos and the ash.
The BNP says there is too much volcanic ash in the country and they must go back.
The Green Party says that the ash fails to meet environmental laws.
UKIP says we have to leave Europe to get rid of the ash.
SNP says the ash allows them to exert force on Westminster to get "a better deal for Scotland"
The French surrender to the ash.
The Americans eat the ash.
The Lib Dems stay Vince Cable predicted this 10 years ago.
Click to expand...
Brilliant.
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
Guardian live blog:

12.50pm: Time to calm down – and reflect on the disadvantages of 24-hour news. I've just had a conversation with someone at ComRes who has explained the figures in a bit more detail. (See 12.09pm, 12.18pm, and 12.29pm.) ComRes are not saying that the Lib Dems are now at 35%.

The figures that are out on Twitter (see 12.09pm) reflect the voting intentions of those who watched the debate. They do indeed show a huge jump in Lib Dem support.

But only 9.4 million people watched the debate. There are more than 40 million voters in the UK. ComRes hasn't officially released its figures yet. When it does, it will give figures for the voting intentions of those who watched the debate. (These are the sensational ones, that we have already seen.)

But ComRes will also release national polling figures, reflecting the views of those who watched the debate and those who didn't. ComRes are assuming that the 9.4 million who saw the debate have gone pro-Lib Dem in line with the results of their survey. But they are also assuming that the other 30 million or so voters who did not watch the debate haven't been influenced in this way. So the headline state-of-the-parties figures will show a swing to the Lib Dems – but not a massive one.
Click to expand...

The national figures will be interesting. Like I said earlier in the week, I think this'll settle to a 3/4 point bump.
 
S

SmokyDave

Member
Chinner said:
on this other forum theres this guy voting bnp ironically to show that he 'doesn't care' and that he wants to 'send the politicians a message'

always gotta lol when people try to act cool on the internet.
Click to expand...
That'll teach 'em. I can just see them wrangling over the motives of the 0.8% of the population that voted BNP after the election.
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
Dabookerman said:
Yup, precisely. Couldn't give a shit if Lib Dems WERE nobodies, I'm voting with the party I most agree with, and they don't have as bad a reputation as Labour or Conservative.

It's pretty obvious for me.
Click to expand...

That's definitely the ideal way to vote and a principled way to vote and more people should follow it...

however, I do understand why people don't. One of the reasons we need electoral reform is because not all votes are equal, not all constituencies equal...

where I live now, Don Foster the Lib Dem MP actually won in 2005 and looks likely to be able to win it again now. Back in Liverpool where I'm from, most of the constituencies there are safe Labour seats.

Seats like Bolton, which ITV cherry picked people from for their panel, are the ones that will really matter. There are swing seats where Lib Dems stand a very good chance of winning. If you want to effect the result of the country's result, you have to look at your locality, have a feel for what people are inclined to do, whats likely to happen there etc... and act strategically OR vote with your principles.

In Bath I'm voting Lib Dem, but in Liverpool I wouldn't have risked Labour losing the seat.
 
P

Parl

Member
iapetus said:
What would happen if all the people who'd like to vote Lib Dem but think it's a wasted vote actually voted Lib Dem?
Click to expand...
We'd probably have at least a Lib Dem in Opposition before long.

I don't have a difficult choice or anything. I live in a Labour stronghold, with Tories distant second and Lib Dems distant third. I don't want the Tories in, but they won't be winning my seat anyway, so Lib Dems it is.

Besides, I wouldn't vote for Geoff Hoon anyway, but fortunately, he's stood down now.
 
M

MmmSkyscraper

Unconfirmed Member
Lucius86 said:
Some people will always have their goggles on, and will always support the same team.
Click to expand...

35hrd55.jpg
 
B

Brera

Banned
It's pretty clear that the next government will be a Lib Dem/Labour government and personally I think that will be the best result for the UK.

A Lib Dem/Tory coalition will be a disaster and unworkable, it'll fall within a year or Labour will overpower them easily in every vote as the Tories are disunited as it is, never mind with the Lib Dems!
 
J

jas0nuk

Member
From twitter, the correctly-weighted ComRes ITV post-debate poll (to reflect the entire population rather than just the people who watched) is:

CON 35 (+0) LAB 28 (-1) LIBDEM 24 (+3)
 
I

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
From Bebo, the correctly-weighted ComRes ITV post-debate poll is:

CON 1 LAB 1 LD 1 BNP 1 SmokyDave 1 LOLUREMYBFFLOTSALUV 95
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
jas0nuk said:
From twitter, the correctly-weighted ComRes ITV post-debate poll (to reflect the entire population rather than just the people who watched) is:

CON 35 (+0) LAB 28 (-1) LIBDEM 24 (+3)
Click to expand...

...

Wait just a minute.
 
M

Meadows

Banned
Mr. Sam said:
...

Yeah, that'll do. Tories really should have lost ground though.
Click to expand...

I can see all the minor parties getting all pissy about the big 3 gaining traction over these debates. The Greens, BNP, UKIP, Libertas etc should just be put in a TV studio to debate, only to be told after that it wasn't on live TV and will be shown in 3 or 4 months time as filler programming on channel 5 at 3am.
 
J

JonnyBrad

Member
Brera said:
It's pretty clear that the next government will be a Lib Dem/Labour government and personally I think that will be the best result for the UK.

A Lib Dem/Tory coalition will be a disaster and unworkable, it'll fall within a year or Labour will overpower them easily in every vote as the Tories are disunited as it is, never mind with the Lib Dems!
Click to expand...

I would say its anything but clear and there's all to play for atm.
 
Acheteedo

Acheteedo

Member
Since actually reading the news on a daily basis, beginning a few years ago, I found that in general I would lean towards the Lib Dem way of doing things but was always met with the "wasted vote" ethos during discussions. Thus, to my shame, I never bothered registering to vote. Consequently I never took a serious interest in British politics, and so I didn't feel justified in picking a party even if I were to register. Thanks to the easily digested televised debate, I was able to confirm that I am obviously a Lib Dem supporter (with maybe a touch of Labour), and at the same time, suddenly it feels like such a vote wouldn't be a waste at all. I've sent the electoral registration forms in already (hopefully I'll make the April 20th deadline).

So that's at least 1 Lib Dem vote that isn't detracting from another party.
 
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