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UK PoliGAF |OT2| - We Blue Ourselves

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V

Volotaire

Member
I have a question about the chief whip. Does Corbyn, as leader, have any say in individual cases where the chief whip needs to talk to MPs, if he follows on a path to have a wider and less exclusionary debate within his term, or is this power devolved from the chairman, other higher management or the whip him/herself?
 
K

killer_clank

Member
whips basically speak for the leader, though there's different whipping strengths for any given vote. if corbyn decides to have less 3 line whip votes then that's up to him but the more and more MPs breaking the whip regularly then party discipline falls apart, which will be one of Corbyn's massive challenges. Divided parties don't win elections.
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
Mary Creagh drops out.

Flip flop Andy Burnham in.

Edit: Burnham shadow home sec, good to see him staying out the Westminster bubble. Hilery Benn remains shadow foreign sec

Edit 2: McDonnell gets shadow Chancellor, all 4 shadow big jobs taken by men.

Edit 3: Dianne 'white people love to play divide and rule' Abbott is shadow communities sec.

Couldn't make this shit up.

Edit 4: corbyn has cancelled a scheduled radio 4 interview for tomorrow.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Burnhams pathetic. I hope his career is over as a result of this, he's revealed himself to be a hypocritical flip flopped who would do or say anything for a shred of power.
 
Nicktendo86

Nicktendo86

Member
Corbyn's son works for he new shadow chancellor.

The new politics folks.

This is a disaster. An utter disaster if Corbyn lasts more than a year I will be shocked.

Edit: Corbyn actually waved down a police car saying he was being bothered when journalists had the gall to ask him questions about his shadow cabinet. I can't find the words.

Edit 2: Caroline Flint resigns.

Edit 3: Team Corbyn has just put out a statement explaining why there are no women in top positions saying the great offices of state are an old idea and health and education are more important. Jesus Christ. Bookies seem to have Corbyn lasting an average of 475 days.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
It's strange and surreal to assess how over the last few years, I have gone through a cycle of changes in my economic ideology. From a blind believer in Labour when I knew nothing of economics and politics, to the Lib Dems in 2010, a flirtation with Marxism, anarcho-communism, anarcho-capitalism and economic determinism, liberalism, libertarianism and meritocracy and now continuing further back to the centre. All underpinned by an ultra liberal social ideology.

I've gone near full circle in 5 years!
 
D

danwarb

Member
Nicktendo86 said:
Corbyn's son works for he new shadow chancellor.

The new politics folks.

This is a disaster. An utter disaster if Corbyn lasts more than a year I will be shocked.

Edit: Corbyn actually waved down a police car saying he was being bothered when journalists had the gall to ask him questions about his shadow cabinet. I can't find the words.

Edit 2: Caroline Flint resigns.

Edit 3: Team Corbyn has just put out a statement explaining why there are no women in top positions saying the great offices of state are an old idea and health and education are more important. Jesus Christ. Bookies seem to have Corbyn lasting an average of 475 days.
Click to expand...

Blairites ruling themselves out. Burnham and co. in there for some unifying bs. He needed a strong ally as shadow chancellor. Majority women is great, though it seems they had a job getting people onboard. Many not willing to even debate trident renewal and EU.

I'll vote Labour if JC is still there come the election.
 
R

RobotNinjaHornets

Banned
I just want to know what Corbyn's going to do to my family
j2qOToi.png
 
W

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
Nicktendo86 said:
Corbyn's son works for he new shadow chancellor.

The new politics folks.

This is a disaster. An utter disaster if Corbyn lasts more than a year I will be shocked.

Edit: Corbyn actually waved down a police car saying he was being bothered when journalists had the gall to ask him questions about his shadow cabinet. I can't find the words.

Edit 2: Caroline Flint resigns.

Edit 3: Team Corbyn has just put out a statement explaining why there are no women in top positions saying the great offices of state are an old idea and health and education are more important. Jesus Christ. Bookies seem to have Corbyn lasting an average of 475 days.
Click to expand...

Whatever he does you'd find some way to criticise, though!
 
V

Volotaire

Member
Only two conservative MPs (David Davis, the former minister, and Stephen McPartland) voted against the 'Tax Credits' bill, down from the speculated 5-7 earlier today.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
I think this media circus currently surrounding Corbyn will die down after Lab autumn conference. Hopefully.

There's a risk this chaos blows the Labour Party up, and although I'd love for a few chunks of MP to find there way to going Yellow if that happened, I'm very, very worried that both Scotland and the EU causes are lost if Labour isn't around as a large voice. :/

EDIT: I swear, I know in the back of my head there is a very good reason for me to dislike David Davies, but he always seems to pop up and do something cool like vote against the tax credit changes.

Why on Earth they're being changed again is beyond me.
 
K

Kuros

Member
Volotaire said:
Only two conservative MPs (David Davis, the former minister, and Stephen McPartland) voted against the 'Tax Credits' bill, down from the speculated 5-7 earlier today.
Click to expand...

325-290 so it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Poor show from Labour if they wanted to try to down the bill.
 
R

RedShift

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
EDIT: I swear, I know in the back of my head there is a very good reason for me to dislike David Davies, but he always seems to pop up and do something cool like vote against the tax credit changes.
Click to expand...

He's pro capital punishment.

But yeah apart from that he generally does seem reasonably okay compared to the rest of his party.
 
Lightning Count

Lightning Count

Member
I am beginning to hate this country in some ways. There's a lot of racist bullshit and general "blame the immigrants" mentality.

Pull your heads out of your arses, for fuck's sakes.
 
K

Kuros

Member
Brillo just eviscerated Lisa Nandy on daily politics. I felt sorry for her. Labour need to sort their party line ASAP.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
McDonnell confirmed on this Thursday's Question Time alongside Salmond as well.

Will Self's hypothesis: Labour is too much of a broad church that we have near neo-liberals on the right and near Marxists on the left of the party that it and the Tory party (another broad party) need to split under the current political structure. There is a mismatch with the demands of the public and the current party paradigm. With today's news that Labour MP's have been dabbling with some of the centre left Tory MP's, it's going to be an interesting few months.

Do I think they both will split like Will hypothesised, of course not. But I'm fascinated at how this will carry on.
 
K

Kuros

Member
Volotaire said:
McDonnell confirmed on this Thursday's Question Time alongside Salmond as well.

Will Self's hypothesis: Labour is too much of a broad church that we have near neo-liberals on the right and near Marxists on the left of the party that it and the Tory party (another broad party) need to split under the current political structure. There is a mismatch with the demands of the public and the current party paradigm. With today's news that Labour MP's have been dabbling with some of the centre left Tory MP's, it's going to be an interesting few months.

Do I think they both will split like Will hypothesised, of course not. But I'm fascinated at how this will carry on.
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Unless there is electoral system reform i don't think we'll these big splits. The MP's will want to look after their own seats first and foremost and if either the left or the right were to split it "lets the other side in" so to speak.
 
L

Lirlond

Member
Honestly there's nothing I'd love more than for a proportional system and the main two party's to split. But I really doubt it's going to happen in the next few terms. So long as one party rules by a majority it will never pass.
 
V

Volotaire

Member
The full speech of the hypothetical scenario in which Scotland voted yes in the independence referendum has been released.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34267778

"In the early hours of this morning, Scotland voted Yes. We are a nation reborn.
"The community of this realm has spoken. Scotland shall be independent once again. To those who voted No, I extend an immediate hand of friendship.
"I do so with respect for our difference, with admiration for the passion and principle of an opposing view strongly held, and with the recognition that the joy of the majority be tempered by the disappointment of the minority.
"We are One nation. One Scotland. Let us shape the future together.

New politics

"This campaign reclaimed from politicians and parties the monopoly of power and decision-making.
"This must be the start of new politics - a time when the voices of the many will be heard.
"A time when the dispossessed and the forgotten assert their rights as citizens. A time of empowerment and participation.
"To our friends and families across these isles waking to our new democracy, we say this; know that, in Scotland, you will always have your closest friend, greatest ally and most steadfast partner.
"Independence is about equality and mutual respect. Those principles will define our new and unbreakable relationship.

Smooth the transition

"I have just spoken with the Prime Minister.
"This morning, we renewed our joint commitment under the Edinburgh Agreement to work constructively and positively to implement the will of the people. That work starts immediately.
"It is, however, important that the people of Scotland remember this; today, tomorrow and for the next 18 months our lives, businesses, shops, schools and hospitals continue exactly as before.
"The dialogue to resolve any differences with the Westminster government will continue in that period, and will smooth the transition to independence.
"Finally, I know that the eyes of the world are today on Scotland.
"We will use the unprecedented attention to make clear that Scotland fully intends to be a constructive and progressive member of the international community.

Greatest day

"Our friends in Europe should understand with total clarity that Scotland's future lies as a fully-engaged participant in the European Union.
"Our path is towards inclusion and co-operation, not isolation.
"But those matters are for another day.
"This morning, I want every person, Yes voters, No voters, everyone in this proud and ancient nation to pause, reflect upon and remember this greatest day in Scotland's history.
"We did this. We made it happen. We believed. We trusted ourselves and trusted each other.
"A country reborn. A democracy reclaimed. We reach towards the future.
"What we have done this day will inspire and empower not just this generation but the many yet unborn.
"They will learn of this momentous day and thank you for investing your trust in each other. And in them."
Click to expand...
 
V

Volotaire

Member
I love Guido Fawkes's keyhole look into Westminster life, but goodness does some of the irrelevant comments or attacks turn me off sometimes.

EDIT: It seems the Corbyn thread has become the permanent PoliGAF thread for the foreseeable future.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Volotaire said:
I love Guido Fawkes's keyhole look into Westminster life, but goodness does some of the irrelevant comments or attacks turn me off sometimes.

EDIT: It seems the Corbyn thread has become the permanent PoliGAF thread for the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...

Corbyn redefining politics, step by step.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
This is a really, seriously good interview with Clegg:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-damaged-but-our-soul-is-intact-10504421.html

He blames the press for a lot of his trouble, which I think is interesting - he's wrong, of course, the problem was that he didn't step down - but a lot of it is a great character study of the Lib Dems from a man at the top and a surprisingly blunt set of comments on media management:

I did at times slightly feel that when the Liberal Democrats were under pressure, people would say, "Well, it's nothing to do with us. What's the leader got to say about it?" I think we do need to understand that under the remorseless pressure of the 24-hour media, if you have a spokesperson – the leader – it makes sense for the rest of the cast to allow that person to continue to speak loudly and clearly from the pulpit you've given them. Don't give a leader a pulpit and then, in a sense, expect them to also carry the can for all the difficult stuff.

To be fair, Paddy [Ashdown] did that for me in the latter stages of my leadership. You've no idea what a difference it made to me when I felt I didn't always need to be the person on the Today programme, to have to defend difficult stuff. Malcolm Bruce was brilliant as well, he would just get on with it. You have that in politics, you've got difficult stuff to deal with, but don't ask the leader always to be the person who fronts up the rubbish – because then the public associate the leader with negative news. In the latter stages I felt we'd got it right. The fact we hadn't earlier is my failing, not anybody else's. The next leader needs to have people around them who are just prepared to act as a diversion or to carry bad news.
Click to expand...
 
K

Kuros

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
This is a really, seriously good interview with Clegg:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-damaged-but-our-soul-is-intact-10504421.html

He blames the press for a lot of his trouble, which I think is interesting - he's wrong, of course, the problem was that he didn't step down - but a lot of it is a great character study of the Lib Dems from a man at the top and a surprisingly blunt set of comments on media management:
Click to expand...

Most of the mistakes the Lib Dems made were before the 2010 election. They over pledged in their manifesto - especially on tuition fees - and then found the realities of government to very different.

I think certain parts of the electorate will regard them with more favour in years to come for what a decent job they did hand braking some of the Conservative ideas.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Kuros said:
Most of the mistakes the Lib Dems made were before the 2010 election. They over pledged in their manifesto - especially on tuition fees - and then found the realities of government to very different.

I think certain parts of the electorate will regard them with more favour in years to come for what a decent job they did hand braking some of the Conservative ideas.
Click to expand...

A lot of the labour party people I know who aren't Corbyn followers are already regretting the absence of the Lib Dems. The number of things they stopped whilst in government is truly scary...
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
Best news story of the day is the one on Huff Post where apparently Abbott was told to go f herself by a new MP after trying to defend the male monopoly of the top four roles in the Shadow Cabinet.

PLP meetings are going to get increasingly more chaotic once party discipline has broken down more, I fancy.
 
W

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
Huw_Dawson said:
Best news story of the day is the one on Huff Post where apparently Abbott was told to go f herself by a new MP after trying to defend the male monopoly of the top four roles in the Shadow Cabinet.

PLP meetings are going to get increasingly more chaotic once party discipline has broken down more, I fancy.
Click to expand...

The whole 'top four jobs' thing is so ridiculous. I'd say for a Labour government health is probably the most pivotal job and that is held by a woman. It just seems like whining for the sake of it.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
War Peaceman said:
The whole 'top four jobs' thing is so ridiculous. I'd say for a Labour government health is probably the most pivotal job and that is held by a woman. It just seems like whining for the sake of it.
Click to expand...

You really think Health is the most pivotal job? Why? I mean, they care about the NHS and all that, but the Health secretary mostly just decides how the money's spent - it's up to the leader and Chancellor how much money (ie whether its funding soars or gets slashed) it gets.

They've been called the Great Offices of State for some time - it even has a wiki!
 
M

Moosichu

Member
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...y-mps-and-officers-investigated-10505592.html

Just a heads up that the investigations into child sex abuse are still going on. I still think this is the single most important issue in politics. Because until the investigation is complete, it's impossible to know who to trust in government knowing some of them might have been involved in and helped cover this up, and I really don't trust people like that to have the publics best interests at heart.


Edit: Who would you rather win the London mayoral elections? I really like Zac Goldsmith and really think the Conservative party could really do with more people like him in prominent positions. However, I also want Labour to do better nationally and it might help lift the party morale if Sadiq Khan wins.
 
K

kmag

Member
So a military coup if Corbyn gets in?

A senior serving general has reportedly warned that a Jeremy Corbyn government could face "a mutiny" from the Army if it tried to downgrade them.

The unnamed general said members of the armed forces would begin directly and publicly challenging the labour leader if he tried to scrap Trident, pull out of Nato or announce “any plans to emasculate and shrink the size of the armed forces.”

He told the Sunday Times: “The Army just wouldn’t stand for it. The general staff would not allow a prime minister to jeopardise the security of this country and I think people would use whatever means possible, fair or foul to prevent that. You can’t put a maverick in charge of a country’s security.

“There would be mass resignations at all levels and you would face the very real prospect of an event which would effectively be a mutiny.”

The general, who served in Northern Ireland during the Troubles, said he and many soldiers were sickened by Mr Corbyn’s refusal to condemn the IRA, which killed 730 troops and injured 7,000 more during the conflict.

His shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, was forced to apologise when it was revealed he had called for IRA members, including hunger striker Bobby Sands, to be honoured by the British government.

The general said: “Many soldiers are disgusted by the comments of Corbyn and John McDonnell [about] the IRA — men who have not only murdered British soldiers but also hundreds of members of their own community.”
Responding to the general's suggestion of a potential mutiny among members of the Armed Forces, a senior Labour source told The Independent: "It does seem like quite an extraordinary statement".

A spokesman for Jeremy Corbyn said he would not comment on remarks made anonymously.

Labour's newly appointed shadow Foreign Secretary, Hilary Benn, has said he does not believe Labour would back either nuclear disarmament or a withdrawal from the military alliance.

Mr Corbyn had earlier announced he would be pulling out of the Stop The War Coalition's annual conference due to his busy schedule.

And it comes after senior members of the Shadow Cabinet said they were planning to rebel if Mr Corbyn attempted to block another vote for air strikes against Syria.

The Sunday Times reported that half of Mr Corbyn’s Cabinet have approached David Cameron to say they are prepared to defy the whip and vote with the government so long as Mr Cameron comes up with a coherent plan.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-army-could-stage-mutiny-under-corbyn-says-senior-serving-general-10509742.html
Click to expand...

Remember it wouldn't be treason as they're only signed up to protect the Queen and her heirs.
 
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