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[Maledict]

Is it like "red Tories" in nonsense insults by people annoyed others aren't lefter than thou?

It is *exactly* like that, and you can see by my posts in this thread how much I like that insult... ;-)

Its as if there was some inherent goodness to be gained from appealing to smaller groups of people. Logically, the best politician in the universe has a fanbase of one disgruntled Welsh coal miner.

 

[ruttyboy]

So they're going to lower taxes again. I realise to the general public 'taxes=evil', but am I really alone in thinking I'd rather they didn't and used the money to not gut the country quite so much?

 

[Jezbollah]

Is it just me or is the usual pre-Budget media smokescreen more bullshittier than normal this time around?

 

[JonathanEx]

Is it just me or is the usual pre-Budget media smokescreen more bullshittier than normal this time around?

Well it's got to be, Osbourne isn't exactly hitting his own targets and goals so he's got to distract and deflect.

 

[Daemul]

Centre left how? She's centre right or right by European standards, based on her policies on healthcare (still far from Universal), foreign policy (hawkish and aggressive), taxation (far lower than most European standards), big business (more lenient on regulations and major policy shifts) and so on. Obviously you could argue that US politics in general are more right wing and less….developed….but that doesn't change her political alignment comparative to most European standards.

Yeah I'm not seeing how Clinton would be seen as center left in the UK, maybe Sanders would but not Clinton, her political stances are much more to the right.

Is it just me or is the usual pre-Budget media smokescreen more bullshittier than normal this time around?

Im not sure how it can get any bullshittier than usual tbh haha, the Tories have mastered using that smokescreen of theirs.

Edit:Jesus, I'm typing on a Ipad and its a pain in the arse, I don't know how people make this look so easy.

 

[Jezbollah]

Right folks, budget on now.

Sky News live stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

 

[kmag]

Right folks, budget on now.

Sky News live stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

It's kind of hard to get excited by the budget. These days it's just the ONS making up wild predictions about growth which are never met, leading everyone to proclaim Osborne's genius on the day while glossing over his poor performance in ever meeting any of his fiscal targets.

Oh look another cut in Corporation tax. Trickle down motherfukkers.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Here comes the sugar tax.

 

[Saiyar]

Osborne's deficit targets now include a £30 billion turn around in one year. That is insane!

 

[kmag]

Capital Gains down to 20%. All in this together remember.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

Did he just say that young people have to choose between saving for a home and saving for retirement

Lol

 

[Jezbollah]

Osborne's deficit targets now include a £30 billion turn around in one year. That is insane!

Yeah that's bollocks. It'll never happen.

No fuel levy though.

Looks like Corbyn is going to do the response. This will be interesting..

 

[pulsemyne]

Osborne's deficit targets now include a £30 billion turn around in one year. That is insane!

It's utterly hilarious. He has failed to hit his targets over and over again. He would be the worlds shittest sniper.

 

[JonathanEx]

Same ol' bollocks, then?

Looks like some good small business stuff, but much of the usual targets.

 

[Saiyar]

Yeah that's bollocks. It'll never happen.

No fuel levy though.

Looks like Corbyn is going to do the response. This will be interesting..

Is he allowed to just read out those targets and laugh?

 

[Jezbollah]

Same ol' bollocks, then?

Looks like some good small business stuff, but much of the usual targets.

Lots of interesting small business and saver stuff (they have really gone HAM over the ISA allowances over the past few years.

This response is something. Seems Jeremy has his volume going but his party isnt rar-raring along with him..

 

[JonathanEx]

I'm about to properly look in to ISAs so the saver stuff is interesting for me, but I sort of think like, if you can afford to save 4K every year until you're fifty, do we really need the govt to give you 1k for each of those years? Like, you're doing alright then, surely?

I guess I'm in that odd position where I'll benefit, as I think I have net from the last few budgets, but I'm not entirely happy about the general strategy, haha.

Am enjoying the political types on Twitter playing "where the fuck does the surplus in 2020 come from", more on this game as we get it.

 

[pulsemyne]

Good god has someone slipped something into Corbyrns tea? He's giving it both barrels today.

 

[MLH]

Good god has someone slipped something into Corbyrns tea? He's giving it both barrels today.

yeah he sounds genuinely impassioned today. Cameron and Osborn are still sitting there with cocky smirks on their faces, they know they don't need to answer to him or anyone.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Good god has someone slipped something into Corbyrns tea? He's giving it both barrels today.

Shame he didn't do that yesterday instead of letting burnham kowtow

 

[Pie and Beans]

Hey poor people! Stop drinking so much cola. Hey corporations! I've kept the whiskey tax down for you now you have a little bit more to spend

 

[Bony Manifesto]

I'm about to properly look in to ISAs so the saver stuff is interesting for me, but I sort of think like, if you can afford to save 4K every year until you're fifty, do we really need the govt to give you 1k for each of those years? Like, you're doing alright then, surely?

I guess I'm in that odd position where I'll benefit, as I think I have net from the last few budgets, but I'm not entirely happy about the general strategy, haha.

Yeah, it's funny. It's basically a £1000 a year gift to everyone under 40 of middle income and above. Perhaps that demographic is smaller than it seems, but on the face of it, it looks like it's a very expensive way of putting money in the pockets of people who don't really need it.

 

[Mindwipe]

Centre left how? She's centre right or right by European standards, based on her policies on healthcare (still far from Universal), foreign policy (hawkish and aggressive), taxation (far lower than most European standards), big business (more lenient on regulations and major policy shifts) and so on. Obviously you could argue that US politics in general are more right wing and less….developed….but that doesn't change her political alignment comparative to most European standards.

Clinton's political positions are pretty close to Cameron's on everything tbh.

 

[Maledict]

Clinton's political positions are pretty close to Cameron's on everything tbh.

...

...

...

This is beyond ridiculous. Seriously, we Europeans make ourselves look dumb as hell commenting on American politics like this. Since when did Cameron support taxing the wealthy to fund education and healthcare? Since when did Cameron push on climate change? Unionisation in the workplace? Getting money out of politics?

Anyone saying Clinton is the same as Cameron, or that she's right wing, hasn't looked at her website or policy proposals.

 

[jimbobsmells]

Yeah, it's funny. It's basically a £1000 a year gift to everyone under 40 of middle income and above. Perhaps that demographic is smaller than it seems, but on the face of it, it looks like it's a very expensive way of putting money in the pockets of people who don't really need it.

This is what the conservatives do a lot. I'm conflicted, a lot of this budget is good news for me personally but I can't condone their behaviour with stuff like the snoopers charter.

 

[Mindwipe]

...

...

...

This is beyond ridiculous. Seriously, we Europeans make ourselves look dumb as hell commenting on American politics like this. Since when did Cameron support taxing the wealthy to fund education and healthcare? Since when did Cameron push on climate change? Unionisation in the workplace? Getting money out of politics?

Anyone saying Clinton is the same as Cameron, or that she's right wing, hasn't looked at her website or policy proposals.

Cameron's original push to be Conservative leader included changing the party logo to reflect his green credentials, remember? And how their manifesto reflected matching Labour tax commitments to fund education and healthcare having ringfenced budgets? And how the lobbying act was supposed to keep money out of politics?

Sure, Cameron dropped some of those ideas like warm turds while in office, but they're ones that we can reasonably suspect Hilary would do as well, especially given Congress will not be supportive of any of them.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

Thought Corbyn had a fantastic time in the most difficult of roles. Although Osborne's budget was such a shambles it did make Jezzas life easier. There's a picture on the beeb of Cameron, Gideon and May that was the perfect 3 monkeys pose.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

YouTube video of Corbyn attacking Osborne's budget.

This is what the conservatives do a lot. I'm conflicted, a lot of this budget is good news for me personally but I can't condone their behaviour with stuff like the snoopers charter.

So, Lib Dems for you it is then? If only we had a proportional system where we could vote for who actually represented us best.

 

[Jezbollah]

Jeremy's got a nice suit on there

 

[Mr. Sam]

If only we had a proportional system where we could vote for who actually represented us best.

If only, friend. If only.

I'm in disbelief about the sheer callousness of this budget, despite - like many in this thread - looking like I might make some impressive financial gains from the ISA news.

 

[Beefy]

So will Osborne evwr reach a target?

 

[Mr. Sam]

So will Osborne evwr reach a target?

He's yet to and only gotten more ambitious so common sense says no.

 

[pootle]

This is what the conservatives do a lot. I'm conflicted, a lot of this budget is good news for me personally but I can't condone their behaviour with stuff like the snoopers charter.

Just ask yourself where you stand on this:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/710116016999759873

Sorry, don't know how to direct link a tweet.

 

[CyclopsRock]

He's yet to and only gotten more ambitious so common sense says no.

Well that's obviously not true. He keeps putting back the date when he claims we will balance the budget.

 

[jimbobsmells]

Just ask yourself where you stand on this:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/710116016999759873

Sorry, don't know how to direct link a tweet.

Dude I know. I have a severely disabled nephew so take a guess where I stand on it. I was saying the budget benefited me personally, it's the effect on others I have issues with.

 

[ruttyboy]

I don't know how they can straight faced go on about how "the country can't afford this and that! We just don't have the funds!" and then in the next breath talk about lowering taxes.

It's like quitting your job and then complaining you can't afford to go on holiday...

 

[twobear]

I don't know how they can straight faced go on about how "the country can't afford this and that! We just don't have the funds!" and then in the next breath talk about lowering taxes.

It's like quitting your job and then complaining you can't afford to go on holiday...

Because cutting spending is not and never was to do with what we can or can't afford. They're fighting a battle for lower government spending and taxes (totally inessential) by claiming it's necessary (i.e. essential).

 

[ruttyboy]

Because cutting spending is not and never was to do with what we can or can't afford. They're fighting a battle for lower government spending and taxes (totally inessential) by claiming it's necessary (i.e. essential).

Well yeah, but I've never understood why they have such an erection for it, is it just about increasing the advantage their relative wealth gives them by making the playing field less even, are they really that callous?

 

[twobear]

Well yeah, but I've never understood why they have such an erection for it, is it just about increasing the advantage their relative wealth gives them by making the playing field less even, are they really that callous?

No. I do think they genuinely believe, in spite of the evidence, that the neoliberal model utopia with low taxes and low spending is beneficial for everybody. The fact that it concentrates their wealth and power is a beneficial side effect, but I don't think it's their sole motivator.

 

[pootle]

Dude I know. I have a severely disabled nephew so take a guess where I stand on it. I was saying the budget benefited me personally, it's the effect on others I have issues with.

I'm sorry to hear about your nephew.

And I'm sad that his life and the lives of his carers are going to be made even harder by this government. Deliberately.

There are plenty of people out there who are happy with what the government are doing.

You know the attitude, "Fuck the teachers, fuck the doctors, fuck the disabled, fuck all the dirty poors. I've got an extra 20 quid a month."

You don't sound like one of them.

I wish more people cared about how the cash the government bribes them with is being taken from the poorest and weakest people in the country.

Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of people for whom 20 quid a month is all that matters.

 

[kmag]

Just ask yourself where you stand on this:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/710116016999759873

Sorry, don't know how to direct link a tweet.

Pretty shocking budget in terms of just how unbelievably regressive it is. It's basically Tory manna from heaven paid for on the backs of the disabled. Bullingdon club politics, they'd have been a bit subtler lighting a £50 quid in front of a disabled kid and using his face to put it out.

 

[Nicktendo86]

I think it is now pretty clear, as if it was in doubt before, that GO will go down as utterly, utterly failing in his so called primary objective of deficit reduction. Turning a £20billion deficit into a £10billion surplus in a year? Who does he think he is kidding?

Of course, he doesn't really care as this was probably his last budget, someone else will have to deal with the mess later. The sugar tax really feels like a dead cat on the table to take the eyes away from the missed targets. Is there any evidence that a sugar tax actually works?

There is also a growing and real possibility that Tory rebels might get the budget voted down. They are furious over the so called tampon tax and other lovely EU nuggets hidden away such as hiking insulation materials from 5% VAT to 20%. Why on earth does the EU think it is a good idea to hike taxes on insulation materials?

All in all, what a load of utter bollocks. And I say that as a tory voter.

Edit: Here is an article about the insulation VAT. What utter, utter bullshit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...-on-insulation-and-solar-panels-EU-rules.html

The European Court of Justice on Thursday ruled that the UK’s longstanding reduced five per cent rate of VAT on energy-saving products was in breach of EU laws.


The court said that the reduced VAT rate should only apply to social housing - raising the prospect that the VAT rate for all other homeowners would be increased to the usual 20 per cent.


This would add hundreds of pounds to the cost of installing home insulation measures and rooftop solar panels - despite the fact the EU has imposed renewable energy targets on the UK and wants the UK to improve its energy efficiency.


Experts said the ruling presents a "direct challenge" to the Chancellor's so-called "triple lock" commitment in the Queen's Speech, which rules out increases in income tax, VAT and national insurance.

 

[twobear]

Well, when your economic policies are shit the outcome will probably be shit too. Garbage in, garbage out, as they say.

 

[pootle]

That is absolutely disgusting.

It literally is a Fuck The Dirty Poors government.

I was going to start a rant but I don't have it in me. Too depressed.

 

[Beefy]

Bottom 5th (people in UK) will lose £550 a year by 2020.

Top 5th will gain £250 a year by 2020.

A study done by the Inpedendant Resolution Foundation for all the budget etc since last May.

Yeah that sounds fair...

 

[Par Score]

Tories gonna Tory. Maybe people forgot over the last 20 years that this is what a Conservative majority looks like.

The sugar tax really feels like a dead cat on the table to take the eyes away from the missed targets. Is there any evidence that a sugar tax actually works?

Evidence is mixed, but I would be for it anyway were it not being handled so cack-handedly:



The more grams of sugar you have in something, the less each gram is taxed.

It's also moronic that the tax is being limited to soft drinks, it's like only taxing alcohol in beer, or only taxing tobacco in cigarettes.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

I miss Brown :/

 

[Jezbollah]

I miss Brown :/

So do open mics

 

[Daemul]

£20billion deficit into a £10billion surplus in a year

What the fuck is Osborne doing? The fool is tying a noose for himself with this ridiculous goal. Oh well, I won't stand in his way.

 

[JonathanEx]

What the fuck is Osborne doing? The fool is tying a noose for himself with this ridiculous goal. Oh well, I won't stand in his way.

Nah you see, by then, he'll be Prime Minister. And then he'll have changed all the laws to change what numbers are. Made being poor illegal. Maybe privatised the Labour party.

Edit: On this, Laura Kuenssberg looks at the conspiracy theories around the budget: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35834904