That I did not expect. Didn't she say earlier that they needed to stick together and not do this?
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UK PoliGAF |OT2| - We Blue Ourselves
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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That I did not expect. Didn't she say earlier that they needed to stick together and not do this?
Fernando Fernandez
Member
There's a live Brexit special of Question Time in half an hour which should be horrific.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
So what happens if there's a leadership election and Corbyn wins?
Round and round she goes, where it stops nobody knows.
Round and round she goes, where it stops nobody knows.
Party split. Possible a coalition with Lib dems and SNP to stay in Europe. Talking to the labour people I know, Corbyn's actions are actually pushing them to co wider leaving the party which for some was unthinkable even a few days ago.
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Stupid, stupid, stupid. It would destroy the Labour Party - again. I hope to god Corbyn loses, and I had some fair patience for him once.
Like I said, literally life long labour activists are saying the party isn't theirs anymore if he stays. These are the ground troops of the party machine.
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Are we starting a new UK PoliGAF for our new era?
I vote for |OT| Boris Breaks It
I vote for |OT| Boris Breaks It
JonathanEx
Member
Haa. I may also suggest Et tu, Boris?
I wonder if it's best waiting until things settle down a little bit - with things spread (rightly, ofc) across the individual threads of Labour's meltdown, WTF happens with the EU, and Tory leadership as they're in full flow.
I wonder if it's best waiting until things settle down a little bit - with things spread (rightly, ofc) across the individual threads of Labour's meltdown, WTF happens with the EU, and Tory leadership as they're in full flow.
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Nandy and Smith going. Corbyn is a dead man walking.
anonymous_abc
Member
With all these heads I'm beginning to wonder if every MP is part of the shadow cabinet.
Fernando Fernandez
Member
I read Jess Philips poorly written resignation with her voice in my head.
It does look like it's the end game, however Corbyn has Seumas Milne advising him so who knows.
It does look like it's the end game, however Corbyn has Seumas Milne advising him so who knows.
Roberto Larcos
Member
Signed on as a member of the Lib Dems. Only reasonably sane party left in English politics right now, it seems.
Nominations open Wednesday evening and close Thursday noon, presumably to stop there being a hundred different candidates.
Jezbollah
Member
I have a feeling they're seeing Corbyn hold out, and want to get a new leader in and call a snap election..
The gap is narrowing!
blazinglord
Member
Unfortunately Dr Liam Fox has thrown his hat into the ring. I genuinely fear for the country if he becomes PM. He is extremely right-wing on social issues.
Davis is out, Fox is in. Leadsrom won't say if she's running or not. May is expected to be the "anyone but Boris" challenger. Hunt is "seriously considering" it but surely wouldn't survive the MPs' vote. Woolaston wants people to drop out if they don't have a serious chance of winning.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Hey, Britgaffers! I've got a question I've been meaning to ask you.
Do the Leavers have any semblance of an actual plan of kickin all the pakistanis and Indians and Ukrainians out? Because it seems to me a hilarious irony that with the leave vote, the UK loses its special immigration relationship with the European Union. And with the loss of that relationship, the UK actually has nowhere to kick out its minorities anymore. Britain will remain 1 in 5 not-white for centuries to come and will never, ever be the way it "used to be ever again".
So when I hear about leave voters shouting "time to go back home"... when exactly do legal Eastern European and Africans who are British citizens start leaving?
Do the Leavers have any semblance of an actual plan of kickin all the pakistanis and Indians and Ukrainians out? Because it seems to me a hilarious irony that with the leave vote, the UK loses its special immigration relationship with the European Union. And with the loss of that relationship, the UK actually has nowhere to kick out its minorities anymore. Britain will remain 1 in 5 not-white for centuries to come and will never, ever be the way it "used to be ever again".
So when I hear about leave voters shouting "time to go back home"... when exactly do legal Eastern European and Africans who are British citizens start leaving?
Jezbollah
Member
So it looks increasingly like the Leave camp actually didn't expect to win, or if they did, had no intention to plan for any kind of initial action plan to put into place, or were content with kicking the can to David Cameron (who promptly kicked it back by resigning).
As far as I can see, those from other countries who have obtained British Citizenship have nothing to worry about - they have their passport and their right to live here. Those in the process of obtaining theirs (I would believe...) should be ok if they get theirs before the exit of the UK from the EU.
It remains to see what will happen with those EU nationals who are here. I would expect those here and already contributing to the economy to be allowed dispensation to stay. Certainly, this seems the most logical path forward as those in jobs have already integrated into the workforce and asking them to leave would be a regressive step, especially in terms of finding replacements that have the same skills (that would be of UK nationality too...)
I think there's an insane amount ignorance from Leave voters who automatically thought that those already here are going to be kicked out in the next few weeks. I think those people are going to be very disappointed when all these details are announced.
The realisation and subsequent anger from the xenophobic Leave voters when they realise they have been played is going to be something to see...
I'd say that putting up a man who previously endorsed "gay cure" organisations would be too much even for the Conservatives but in the current climate he might actually survive.
Jezbollah
Member
I would say he's safely categorized in this case as a "best of a bad bunch"...
Spoiled Milk
Banned
#LeaveItToLeavers
CyclopsRock
Member
No Boris!!
CyclopsRock
Member
This is why I love the Tories. None of this "let's have a meeting, let's discuss it at the AGM, let's have a secret ballot." Nope. The knives come straight out and the emails get leaked. Amazing theatre. Spectacular. Bravo.
Chilcot is finally released this Wednesday, and there's already calls to impeach Blair for his role in the Iraq War.
I'm sure that'll have a nice calming effect on the current state of British politics.
I'm sure that'll have a nice calming effect on the current state of British politics.
Labour have always been bloody useless at dealing with their leaders. We're now in the preposterous state when a leader can overwhelmingly lose a vote of no confidence, to the point where he can't even do his job and lead a shadow cabinet, and yet he won't go.
Democracy for choosing party leaders is a bad idea to be frank.
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
No, it's a great idea. What's a bad idea is having a two-party system that means Blairites and Corbynites have to exist in the same party, causing the inevitable shit-storm when one ends up at the helm rather than the other. Our actual electoral system is so poor at expressing political cleavages we have to do it inside parties instead.
If the Labour Party could split and be done with it, you'd probably have two fairly coherent parties at the end with distinct membership and purpose. But the lessons from the last split make that a no-go.
EDIT: In general, I think there are very few problems to which the answer is "less democracy". Democracy doesn't explicitly mandate any outcome, what emerges from a democratic procedure is the result of the inputs. If the inputs are producing a bad outcome, and those "inputs" are people with formed opinions and preferences over their lives who want a stake in their political system, then changing the procedure, while it might avert the bad outcome in the short-term, is a sticky-plaster solution. Eventually, the discontent will still bubble up, because you've not addressed the core problem - why people think that way, what's causing them to form those opinions. Even more dangerously, it can hide this discontent from view. Working class Britain has been furious for nearly a decade and a half, but much our elite didn't notice because our procedures didn't allow this anger to come through.
Just push for electoral reform and the rise of coalition governments, we'd have much the same as what we get now, a (coalition) party in power that compromises on it's message depending on it's makeup and who is PM.
Labour isn't the only party that is full of fractures, the tories are exactly the same, the only difference they're a lot less vocal about it and tend to keep dissent quietly smouldering. Though this round of Leader elections might prove me wrong.
Labour isn't the only party that is full of fractures, the tories are exactly the same, the only difference they're a lot less vocal about it and tend to keep dissent quietly smouldering. Though this round of Leader elections might prove me wrong.
Jezbollah
Member
As I said on Facebook: See, the positives of leaving the EU have already begun!
What odds do you reckon you'd have had this time last year on the most stable parties in the UK being the SNP and the Lib Dems?
CyclopsRock
Member
I wonder if Carswell will re-defect? that seems like a big ask of his electorate, but he's a generally well respected MP and he's "got what he wanted" - what's the point in staying with UKIP? Even if he ended up being their leader, what good would it do him? I imagine he could climb the ladder pretty well if he were in a Leave-lead Tory party. If that's something he's into...
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
He'd be the first MP since Churchill to do a defection then defect back to the same party later in his career, I think.
EDIT: Excluding the N.Ireland shenanigans with the Independent Unionist Party.
dapperbandit
Banned
Well he's got what he wanted (sort of, obviously the negotiation has to happen but he has no power over that).
I don't think Carswell will take the vacancy, I think Suzanne Evans will.
She is the Nice Auntie to Farage's Dodgy Uncle.
Fernando Fernandez
Member
Suzanne said she'd like to run but she's currently suspended from the party because she disagreed with Farage.
TIL that Osborne and Goves dogs had a service to "marry" them with flowers. This country...
TIL that Osborne and Goves dogs had a service to "marry" them with flowers. This country...
plagiarize
Banned
You guys really need a new thread title. Just saying 
FlammableD
Banned
You guys really need a new thread title. Just saying
I mean...
We did Blue ourselves again
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
UK PoliGAF |OT| Proudly presents The Thick Of It, season 5
CyclopsRock
Member
People said that gay marriage would be a slippery slope...
For people that don't go into the Brexit thread:
Theresa May (118)
Andrea Leadsom (39)
Michael Gove (26)
Stephen Crabb (22)
Liam Fox (7)
It even shows who the mps voted for.
http://www.conservativehome.com/parl...candidate.html
Theresa May (118)
Andrea Leadsom (39)
Michael Gove (26)
Stephen Crabb (22)
Liam Fox (7)
It even shows who the mps voted for.
http://www.conservativehome.com/parl...candidate.html
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