Support NeoGAF

[tomtom94]

I think Corbyn actually hit upon a good idea by trying to leave most of the campaigning to Johnson (a much better political campaigner, especially in the key grounds i.e. the working classes they were aiming for)

The problem was that they never found the audience they needed, I think partly because the media (ironically) only cared what Corbyn had to say...

 

[brain_stew]

Corbyn was a disaster in this referendum and I put a lot of the blame for this on him. But today I thought about it and none of the other leadership candidates could have appealed the working class voters who voted Leave anyway so I dunno.. It's more of a problem with the party as a whole being totally out of touch tbh.

They might have actually ran a campaign instead of going on holiday and giving the EU 7 out of 10. A swing of a few points in Labour heartlands would have been enough to carry remain nationally.

 

[Beefy]

@Skynewsbreak
German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" of the EU following leave vote #EUref

@SkyNewsBreak
U.S. President Barack Obama says he has spoken to David Cameron and the UK is committed to an orderly transition out of the EU #EUref

@SkyNewsBreak
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry says he wants the U.S. to remain "engaged, but calm" during UK's transition following #EUref leave vote

 

[JonathanEx]

Here's tonight's episode of Dead Ringers: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07glx81

 

[f0rk]

The independent London movement is a pretty good embodiment of the disconnect between the capital and the rest of the country, especially in the left. Worried about the plight of those poor northerners until they start voting against them.

 

[Jezbollah]

@Skynewsbreak
German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" of the EU following leave vote #EUref

That is genuinely the most comforting thing I've heard since the result of the vote.

 

[anonymous_abc]

The independent London movement is a pretty good embodiment of the disconnect between the capital and the rest of the country, especially in the left. Worried about the plight of those poor northerners until they start voting against them.

That's been developing for a long time.
The progressive left has very different worries and priorities than the rural and underprivileged working class.

Basically left and right just doesn't cut it and hasn't for a long time. That makes FPTP so much more ridiculous and useless.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

That is genuinely the most comforting thing I've heard since the result of the vote.

Why? The associate partner deal is what Turkey has. It doesn't include any exceptions for services. The UK is a service economy. It's about the worst possible deal imaginable.

 

[Jezbollah]

Why? The associate partner deal is what Turkey has. It doesn't include any exceptions for services. The UK is a service economy. It's about the worst possible deal imaginable.

Yep. Probably the most comforting thing I've heard :/

 

[CCS]

Hypothetical question, be interested to hear people's thoughts:

There's been a lot of talk about what one might call the "regretful Brexiter" vote, people who voted Leave and now regret it. Say at some point between now and leaving the EU polls come out showing a substantial percentage (say 20-25%) of Leave voters have changed their minds and a sizeable majority of the electorate favours staying in the EU.

Should the government call a second referendum or just abandon leaving altogether, or should it carry on?

 

[Maledict]

Hypothetical question, be interested to hear people's thoughts:

There's been a lot of talk about what one might call the "regretful Brexiter" vote, people who voted Leave and now regret it. Say at some point between now and leaving the EU polls come out showing a substantial percentage (say 20-25%) of Leave voters have changed their minds and a sizeable majority of the electorate favours staying in the EU.

Should the government call a second referendum or just abandon leaving altogether, or should it carry on?

This is why labour need a new, strong pro-EU leader. There are 16 million remain votes up for grabs, yet both parties are squabbling over the 17 million remain.

I do think there's a slim chance it doesn't happen - although the lack of an economic catastrophe yesterday didn't help oddly enough.

 

[Mr. Sam]

This is why labour need a new, strong pro-EU leader. There are 16 million remain votes up for grabs, yet both parties are squabbling over the 17 million remain.

I do think there's a slim chance it doesn't happen - although the lack of an economic catastrophe yesterday didn't help oddly enough.

The arse fell out of the pound before regaining stability but the lack of confidence and certainty will be more insidious, and the real change will take place once we are actually out of the EU.

 

[Phantast2k]

@SamCoatesTimes

Tory MP contacted by Boris campaign says they r telling MPs he wd go for an immediate general election if he wins to get fresh mandate.

How come this did not go viral? :O

 

[CCS]

David Lammy has become (I believe) the first MP to call on the government to ignore the referendum result. I wonder if any others will follow.

 

[Hazzuh]

Seems like Corbyn is more interested in fighting to remain leader than he was in fighting to remain in the EU. Bizarre that he wants to remain leader when he doesn't have the respect of anyone in his shadow cabinet and doesn't have any authority in the PLP. Even if the membership reelect him as leader, what is the point? What is he going to accomplish as leader? Maddening.

 

[Jezbollah]

@SamCoatesTimes

Tory MP contacted by Boris campaign says they r telling MPs he wd go for an immediate general election if he wins to get fresh mandate.

How come this did not go viral? :O

I do wonder if Boris becomes PM if he will call an election only if Corbyn is still leader of Labour.

 

[PJV3]

Seems like Corbyn is more interested in fighting to remain leader than he was in fighting to remain in the EU. Bizarre that he wants to remain leader when he doesn't have the respect of anyone in his shadow cabinet and doesn't have any authority in the PLP. Even if the membership reelect him as leader, what is the point? What is he going to accomplish as leader? Maddening.

The trouble is the people who want to oust him don't have an answer to the divided country and party either. Going back after this election to a business as usual position will create a lot of UKIP MPs.

 

[Uzzy]

The trouble is the people who want to oust him don't have an answer to the divided country and party either. Going back after this election to a business as usual position will create a lot of UKIP MPs.

They've ignored and belittled the people who live in the traditional Labour heartlands for the last thirty years, so it's quite understandable that they'd want to go back to doing just that, once they find a way to ignore this latest outburst.

Anyway, Hilary Benn's been sacked from the Shadow Cabinet for plotting a coup.

 

[Walshicus]

Hilary Benn sacked then?

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

Instead of sorting out the countries finances, George Osborne has been phoning round asking for leadership support! Couldn't make that one up.

In long overdue news

Jeremy Corbyn has sacked Hilary Benn from the shadow cabinet following reports of a coup to oust the Labour leader

Should've done it after the Syrian bombing vote.

 

[f0rk]

There's no way Corbyn can survive this right? Or can he run a shadow cabinet of just McDonnell, Diane Abbot and himself?

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

There's plenty of talented new MP's like the late Jo Cox in Labour's ranks.

 

[Hazzuh]

There's plenty of talented new MP's like the late Jo Cox in Labour's ranks.

To be clear, Jo Cox supported Liz Kendall for leader, not Corbyn.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

To be clear, Jo Cox supported Liz Kendall for leader, not Corbyn.

Yes and she also nominated Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership ballot. Both facts do not change the fact that there are a lot of fantastic new Labour MPs that would do a fine job in the shadow cabinet.

 

[Maledict]

There's plenty of talented new MP's like the late Jo Cox in Labour's ranks.

Corbyn is loathed by the newer, younger of take of MPs. Whilst there will be some who swallow their pride, a lot won't - you can't have a shadow cabinet made up of the bottom third of the party.

(Younger MPs are very pro Europe, and the evidence and storie about how Corbyn deliberately sabateged labours Remain campaign are coming fast and furious now.).

I won't vote for them with him in charge, and I know anlotnofnother previous labour voters in London who are now saying the same.

 

[Jezbollah]

Heidi Alexander has resigned from the Shadow Cabinet.

 

[CCS]

Heidi Alexander has resigned from the Shadow Cabinet.

To be followed by about half the others by all accounts. He's going to lose the vote of no confidence, the only question is if the anti-Corbyn faction is right and they can stop him getting back on the ballot.

EDIT: Also, credit to the Lib Dems for coming out and saying they'll campaign on us staying in anyway.

 

[And_Gignac]

Ousting Corbyn under the current circumstances and with the process Blairites are plotting would transform Labour into a London-only party and give rise to UKIP all over the place.

 

[Jezbollah]

Ousting Corbyn under the current circumstances and with the process Blairites are plotting would transform Labour into a London-only party and give rise to UKIP all over the place.

This is my fear. I can see a huge swing from Labour to UKIP in those Labour heartlands who voted for Leave if an election takes place.

I can also see swings from the anti Europe Tory voterbase to UKIP in Conservative strongholds.

Sheesh.

 

[JonathanEx]

Ousting Corbyn under the current circumstances and with the process Blairites are plotting would transform Labour into a London-only party and give rise to UKIP all over the place.

Possibly but right now it's hard to believe that Corbyn would fight an election campaign well at all - if a Blairite could at least say things to make it look like they care for the working class, big and publicly, would that be an improvement?

 

[War Peaceman]

Corbyn is blatantly unable to operate as a leader of a political party. He is unable to create discipline in terms of messaging, platform and amongst members/MPs. His campaigning ability is limited and he alienates vast portions of potential voters.

I'm sympathetic to many of his views and he was clearly smeared unfairly by the press and undermined by the carcass of the Blairite wing but even without that he's never shown any capacity to be an effective leader.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

Corbyn is loathed by the newer, younger of take of MPs. Whilst there will be some who swallow their pride, a lot won't - you can't have a shadow cabinet made up of the bottom third of the party.

(Younger MPs are very pro Europe, and the evidence and storie about how Corbyn deliberately sabateged labours Remain campaign are coming fast and furious now.).

I won't vote for them with him in charge, and I know anlotnofnother previous labour voters in London who are now saying the same.

I've not heard anything of loathing at all, especially from the newer more left leaning MP's. Maybe the old right leaning, yes. Then again we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. I'm sure there's a good WhatsApp group going on now!

Just seen half are expected to quit in a big mutiny. Looking at that, I don't think I can vote for this Labour anymore.

 

[Jezbollah]

The staggered resignations are coming in. First: Heidi Alexander, next (just now) Gloria Del Piero.

EDIT: next: Shadow Scottish Secretary Ian Murray

 

[31GhostsIV]

Why doesn't this surprise me? The Tories have all gone into hiding, but instead of calling them out on it and capitalising, Labour decides to pull this shit.

 

[Maledict]

Hillary Ben just said in his interview that lob our wouldn't fight the Brexit result, which infuriates me. I can understand a leadership challenge because of Corbyn's utter failure during the campaign, and the need to make changes and challenge that result.

But a leadership change where Labour doesn't fight the result is just petty party politics and opportunism. Either you think the leave voters were wrong, in which case the party needs to convince them otherwise and be the pro-European party, or you were lying when you voted remain and don't actually care. Anything else is just abject cowardice, and it won't help the party in the long run anyway.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

Political reporter for Buzzfeed Siraj Datoo just tweeted this.

"Understand some shadow cabinet members are considering stepping down tomorrow/later to "carry into another news cycle". Not going anywhere"

 

[CCS]

So Sturgeon has suggested that the SNP has both the ability and the will to veto leaving the EU in Holyrood. Thoughts?

 

[Kelthink]

So Sturgeon has suggested that the SNP has both the ability and the will to veto leaving the EU in Holyrood. Thoughts?

I hope she can and does, then loads of stupid pricks will call for independence from Scotland and fail.

But right now the other parties should be waiting for the tories to make their move. This Corbyn shit is so poorly timed, fuck the blairites. I've not got the greatest confidence in him but dragging away the attention from the party in power is unbelivably stupid.

 

[Jezbollah]

Just saw this posted by Orbis on the Corbyn/Benn thread:

"Corbyn office 'sabotaged' EU Remain campaign - sources"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36633238

If this is the case, god knows what will follow. My god.

 

[phisheep]

So Sturgeon has suggested that the SNP has both the ability and the will to veto leaving the EU in Holyrood. Thoughts?

She's right. And good on her for saying so.

SNP needs to start running candidates in England!

 

[Maledict]

I hope she can and does, then loads of stupid pricks will call for independence from Scotland and fail.

But right now the other parties should be waiting for the tories to make their move. This Corbyn shit is so poorly timed, fuck the blairites. I've not got the greatest confidence in him but dragging away the attention from the party in power is unbelivably stupid.

This is not just the blairites. People need to stop imagining there's some massive cabal of blairites followers - there aren't. The PlP is not dominated by blairites - the largest grouped by far are the middle of the road MPS who were willing to give Corbyn a chance, and having watched the last year have made up their minds. The blairites faction in the PlP is about 25 MPS tops.

And labour HAS to act now. Absolutely has to. The very last thing they can do is go into a general election with Corbyn has leader, and if Johnson gets it we know we will have a general election very shortly afterwards. Labour need someone credible and reliable in charge - their best bet against Johnson is to invalidate him as leader, and Corbyn can't possibly do that as he's already been invalidated himself by the majority of the electorate (fairly or not).

 

[kharma45]

So Sturgeon has suggested that the SNP has both the ability and the will to veto leaving the EU in Holyrood. Thoughts?

She's wrong. She can only withhold consent. That doesn't block or veto it.

 

[Jezbollah]

.....and another one:

Sophy Ridge ‏(@SophyRidgeSky)
Lilian Greenwood has resigned as Shadow Transport Secretary.... #Labour

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

I did read a suggestion on Twitter that the old guard need Corbyn out before the Chilcott report (July 6th?) in case he calls for War Crime prosecutions against Blair.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

It's a shame that once again Labour in fighting is hiding the real story.

Faisal Islam - Conservative Leave MP, Boris backer: "there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"

 

[Maledict]

I did read a suggestion on Twitter that the old guard need Corbyn out before the Chilcott report (July 6th?) in case he calls for War Crime prosecutions against Blair.

I doubt that features into it, but it would be a good move.

People forget that Blair is still actually very popular amongst the people who voted labour in 97, 01 and 05 - and who the voted Tory in 10 and 15. I'm not a fan of the guy at all, but a lot of people still are and its those people labour need to get back into power. The post 15 election research clearly showed that Blair still has sway outside of the liberal activist base.

Calling for a war crimes prosecution against labours most successful leader, who still has reach into parts of the population labour needs, is suicidally inept.

 

[Hazzuh]

I actually live in Jeremy Corbyn's constituency. Speaking to Labour voters I know here I've yet to speak to anyone who wants him to stay on as leader.

 

[Jezbollah]

The latest:

George Eaton ‏(@georgeeaton)
Lucy Powell has become fifth shadow cabinet member to resign.

10 mins later:

George Eaton ‏(@georgeeaton)
Kerry McCarthy becomes sixth shadow cabinet member to resign.

 

[f0rk]

So Sturgeon has suggested that the SNP has both the ability and the will to veto leaving the EU in Holyrood. Thoughts?

I'm a bit confused by this, wouldn't you make this suggestion before bringing up another independence referendum? I'd much prefer it as a solution but don't see how it plays into what the SNP ultimately want

I hope she can and does, then loads of stupid pricks will call for independence from Scotland and fail.

But right now the other parties should be waiting for the tories to make their move. This Corbyn shit is so poorly timed, fuck the blairites. I've not got the greatest confidence in him but dragging away the attention from the party in power is unbelivably stupid.

A new leader needs to be in position as far in advance of an election as possible. Waiting for the conservative's to sort themselves out first would be giving them a massive advantage.

It's their own fault Corbyn has created an environment they can't come to a solution behind close doors.

 

[Jezbollah]

One more:

Sophy Ridge ‏(@SophyRidgeSky)
Seema Malhotra - who introduced Jeremy Corbyn yesterday - has resigned as Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury