-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
- Start date
Making people easier to fire is completely irrelevant to the recession, to be honest. They're just trying to do it now because they think they can get away with it under the guise of it somehow boosting the economy.
The real reason they want to do it is to continue the post-80s Tory project of dismantling the welfare state and eroding worker rights.
It must make the Tories furious, knowing that the greatest 20th century British achievement was a Socialist one.
I can't believe the gall of a Tory claiming that a Labour leader is in the pockets of the unions as though he isn't in the pockets of his own paymasters.
The real reason they want to do it is to continue the post-80s Tory project of dismantling the welfare state and eroding worker rights.
It must make the Tories furious, knowing that the greatest 20th century British achievement was a Socialist one.
I can't believe the gall of a Tory claiming that a Labour leader is in the pockets of the unions as though he isn't in the pockets of his own paymasters.
I can't believe Cameron said Miliband was in danger of being fired for being incompetent.
radioheadrule83
Banned
As much as I believe some Conservatives would like to reduce, diminish or even destroy the welfare state, I don't think this particular move is necessarily about that.
I think a lot of Conservatives, ideologically, DO believe that protection against wrongful dismissal is just more "red tape" that gets in the way. I'm sure they hold such convictions. However, I don't agree, I don't think most in the country who would be threatened by such proposals would agree, and I don't think they've thought about how it would be malignantly exploited in a quite prejudicial way to circumvent necessary personal rights and protections. It would be of no benefit to businesses or the economy to erode peoples' rights and protections.
Businesses don't need more power to fire people. If they are drawing up good employment contracts, reviewing/appraising staff properly, and have just cause or reasoning to fire people (or make them redundant) - then they just don't need it. The proposals around 90 day consultations for redundancy are a seperate issue here... I think that probably IS an issue for businesses that suddenly find themselves in distress. That has nothing to do with what the bulk of the Beecroft proposal says though...
ALL this would do is allow businesses to make promises they can't keep (join us on a 2 year contract, with <x,y,z> in bonuses and priveleges) and sack people 3 months later with no just cause and no fulfilment of those promises. That's what they mean when they say they want more 'flexibility' for businesses. They mean flexibility to ruthlessly exploit people desperate for work.
I think a lot of Conservatives, ideologically, DO believe that protection against wrongful dismissal is just more "red tape" that gets in the way. I'm sure they hold such convictions. However, I don't agree, I don't think most in the country who would be threatened by such proposals would agree, and I don't think they've thought about how it would be malignantly exploited in a quite prejudicial way to circumvent necessary personal rights and protections. It would be of no benefit to businesses or the economy to erode peoples' rights and protections.
Businesses don't need more power to fire people. If they are drawing up good employment contracts, reviewing/appraising staff properly, and have just cause or reasoning to fire people (or make them redundant) - then they just don't need it. The proposals around 90 day consultations for redundancy are a seperate issue here... I think that probably IS an issue for businesses that suddenly find themselves in distress. That has nothing to do with what the bulk of the Beecroft proposal says though...
ALL this would do is allow businesses to make promises they can't keep (join us on a 2 year contract, with <x,y,z> in bonuses and priveleges) and sack people 3 months later with no just cause and no fulfilment of those promises. That's what they mean when they say they want more 'flexibility' for businesses. They mean flexibility to ruthlessly exploit people desperate for work.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
What exactly qualifies Beecroft to comment on such matters? I can't seem to find any list of involvements and successes, beyond the awful Wonga company. Well, that and his generous donations of over £500,000 to a certain political party...
EDIT: Also, the ONS is saying that the economy shrunk by more than previously stated. This conflicts with what zomgwtfbbq was saying... Anyone more knowledgeable on the subject than myself care to comment?
EDIT: Also, the ONS is saying that the economy shrunk by more than previously stated. This conflicts with what zomgwtfbbq was saying... Anyone more knowledgeable on the subject than myself care to comment?
Jezbollah
Member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18187354
So the ONS has revised growth figures to show contraction at 0.3% (rather than the originally reported 0.2%) during the first three months of this calendar year.
Very dispiriting to say the least. We are looking at a lost decade if we're lucky.
So the ONS has revised growth figures to show contraction at 0.3% (rather than the originally reported 0.2%) during the first three months of this calendar year.
Very dispiriting to say the least. We are looking at a lost decade if we're lucky.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Oh wow, I didn't realise he was resposnible for suckering poor, struggling people into 1700%+ short term loans... I'm not surprised he doesn't care about people getting fired for no reason now, he drinks from the well of souls and his blood is likely to be oil-black.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Bad News Thursday across the board, all of it damning:
Economy shrinks more than thought: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18187354
A third of parents with disabled children took out loans to pay basics last year: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/may/24/families-disabled-children-loans-basics
More missing taxes could have been collected if the HMRC wasn't struck with job cuts: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18176136
Quantative easing on the way due to disastrous retail slump and more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9286201/Bank-hints-QE-could-restart-this-summer.html
And of course A4e's descent into the public's favourite piñata continues with suggestions theres a multi-billion misuse at the core, all under the watch of Cameron's family tsar. He sure can pick em!
Country seems like a ceramic bath tub spring hundreds of leaks in the middle of a fucked up ocean. Stow it zomg!
Economy shrinks more than thought: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18187354
A third of parents with disabled children took out loans to pay basics last year: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/may/24/families-disabled-children-loans-basics
More missing taxes could have been collected if the HMRC wasn't struck with job cuts: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18176136
Quantative easing on the way due to disastrous retail slump and more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9286201/Bank-hints-QE-could-restart-this-summer.html
And of course A4e's descent into the public's favourite piñata continues with suggestions theres a multi-billion misuse at the core, all under the watch of Cameron's family tsar. He sure can pick em!
Country seems like a ceramic bath tub spring hundreds of leaks in the middle of a fucked up ocean. Stow it zomg!
PJV3
Member
You can take comfort in the knowledge that thanks to the captain that the bathtub isn't changing course.
Confidence is an important thing - the thing is, there's a lack of it. That's just one of many problems though.
Confidence isn't important. God knows the government has had enough confidence that their shit policies would work. Remember when we were confidently informed that the private sector would employ enough people to make up for the losses from the public sector? What's important is not having shit policies.
Even the fucking IMF thinks that the Tories' austerity is a failure.
Oh, and, by the way, ONS revised economic growth downwards in the first quarter, not up as predicted by certain members of the thread: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/may/24/uk-economy-contracted-2012
Even the fucking IMF thinks that the Tories' austerity is a failure.
Oh, and, by the way, ONS revised economic growth downwards in the first quarter, not up as predicted by certain members of the thread: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/may/24/uk-economy-contracted-2012
And what's worrying is that the real cuts to public services are yet to come.
PJV3
Member
90% of the cuts start next year. i think i might open a chain of soup kitchens.
That's the entrepreneurial spirit, the Tories say, we need.
The only thing I can think of was breaking the stranglehold of the unions had on this country.
Fuck me. Get rid of this government already.
I think you're mistaking market confidence with the confidence that a madman has that his tin foil hat works, they're very different. One is important to economic growth and one is what the Tories have, I'll let you decide which is which.
'Market confidence' is just what the market has when it looks like there's money to made. And you get that from not being shit at managing the economy.
'Market confidence' is not some magical thing which appears and then money appears from nowhere. It's what happens when you look like you're a good opportunity for investment.
PJV3
Member
Market confidence is a castle built on shifting sand, what they like is certainty. If pro growth parties swept into power across europe the markets would adapt to that new outlook. Osborne has talked himself into a corner, he overhyped the problem and what would happen if he deviated from the 'solution'.
One can follow from the other it is true, but that doesn't make them the same. When people say that 'confidence is important' they are talking about the former, not the latter.
An example, how confident Cameron is when he states that rubber ducks will be handing out free money next Tuesday has no effect on how confident the market is that the good times are here again if they don't share his confidence.
EDIT: To bring it to your statements directly, the market being confident they can make money is important for growth, a government's confidence in it's policies is not. So it is incorrect of you to say 'confidence isn't important' so long as you are talking about the kind of confidence that actually matters.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
This is a bit extreme. The Reform Act of 1867 was pretty good.
Also: Jeremy Hunt. Why has he not been sacked and prosecuted yet? Cable spoke to a constituent about his biases and was justly fired (though I sorely wish he had not been). Hunt corresponded with people involved in the bid repeatedly by himself and through advisers. Why the difference? (Obviously, he is catching bullets)
As to the news on families with disabled children... surely Cameron can have particular sympathy for these families? Surely of all issues and of all people, this is one thing he would be attentive towards?
radioheadrule83
Banned
Madness.
That is such a horrible image to behold... the months of stagnation / near flatline growth...
To look at it, you'd think we'd endured worse than people did in the 30s or something, but we started from such a higher threshold of relative prosperity. Its troubling though... a lost decade type scenario would be horrible. I'd seriously consider bailing out and going somewhere else while I'm still young.
Power corrupts, whether you represent the workers or not. And it was getting that way in the late 70's, with militant unions bringing the country to a virtual standstill. So, in that sense, something had to be done.
Of course, Maggie went way too far with her "reforms", but she was a Tory, and they never do anything good without it turning bad because they allow overzealous ideology and rampant free-market dogma to control their mindset. "The Law Of Intended Consequences", as zomg might say.
Cam doesn't care about other people with handicapped kids, just as long as his own are doing alright.
Honestly, this "I'm Alright, Jack" attitude is all I expect from this current incarnation of the British Tea Party.
Wasn't that growth in the 30's just before a massive dead-cat bounce? I can't remember exactly but I thought the economy didn't actually grow again till the war?
We have had flat / stagnant growth (ONS could still be just as wrong but it's largley irrelevant, still not growing as we should be) and Gideon is going to get a fucking reality check this year.
I think godel is right, Torys are digging a fucking deep grave for themselves, even Ed Milliband could probably win the next general at this rate.
Lets focus on dealing with a lost decade like the Japanese do, sink into technology and eat ramen.
We have had flat / stagnant growth (ONS could still be just as wrong but it's largley irrelevant, still not growing as we should be) and Gideon is going to get a fucking reality check this year.
I think godel is right, Torys are digging a fucking deep grave for themselves, even Ed Milliband could probably win the next general at this rate.
Lets focus on dealing with a lost decade like the Japanese do, sink into technology and eat ramen.
I still think confidence is virtually irrelevant. It's an effect of economic health, not a cause of it.
Say what you want about the way Japan dealt with its epic stagnation, but I wouldn't want their demographic crisis.
Thankfully, we've had a bit of a baby boom recently, so there's little danger of that.
Oh, back on topic - BOO BRITISH TEA PARTY BOO BOOOOOOOOO FUCK THE TORIES
Edit: Yes, Osbourne's obstinacy in the face of masses of contrary empirical data may be a major factor in our economy getting more fucked over than it should be. "This laddie's not for turning"? You ain't no Iron Lady, son (more like a Teflon Bitch), and the markets know it.
Thankfully, we've had a bit of a baby boom recently, so there's little danger of that.
Oh, back on topic - BOO BRITISH TEA PARTY BOO BOOOOOOOOO FUCK THE TORIES
Edit: Yes, Osbourne's obstinacy in the face of masses of contrary empirical data may be a major factor in our economy getting more fucked over than it should be. "This laddie's not for turning"? You ain't no Iron Lady, son (more like a Teflon Bitch), and the markets know it.
PJV3
Member
Leveson is smacking the Spad about. "let's explore the concept of being a judge, do you think it would be ok for one to go out for drinks, or texting sessions with either of the parties involved in a case".
And by mentioning the 2010 Hunt memo, he has dragged Cameron in a little deeper.
And by mentioning the 2010 Hunt memo, he has dragged Cameron in a little deeper.
'Than it should be'? The economy's getting as fucked over as credible economists predicted. This stuff is only a surprise if you were clinging to the failed neoliberal ideology.
Speedymanic
Banned
Oh dear. Would to hear what zomg has to say about this. Are these figures wrong as well?
Fine, then. Does "...than it could be" sound better?
I can't believe Hunt is still catching bullets for Cameron, but with that memo, it won't be long before some ordnance gets through his human shield and does some harm, hopefully.
Also, Grayling (sounds like some generic WRPG NPC villain, doesn't it?) is still defending A4E over their Work Programme fraud, despite a Select Committee report accusing the firm of "systemic fraud", and now the minister in charge is accusing the select committee of withholding evidence from DWP investigators.
Of course they would, because they knew the govt. would cover it up.
What a ridiculous mess. I really hope that this is the beginning of the end for the whole Welfare To Work scheme, we don't need super-right-wing American forced labour policies in our country, and besides, the Work Programme is friggin' useless. At least New Labour's Back To Work scheme actually got me two jobs over time, without having to threaten me with loss of benefits or forced labour for dole.
You see that post I made above? The one where I said I hope that the mess over A4E is the beginning of the end for the Work Programme?
I take it back. I've got a new personal adviser, and I think I've finally found my Ms. Right. Blonde, cute face, nice juicy tits, dat ass, doze legs, school-marm glasses - I don't stand a snowball's chance in hell, but I tell ya - I'd happily scrub sewers for her. <3
In other news, I think I'm now over Louise Mensch. Rejoice!
*******
So, Cam has "no regrets" over appointing Hunt to the BSkyB overseeing job despite the cunt happily volunteering to become Rupert and James' spit roast, eh? Well, goody for him. Let's see if Leveson can make him regret it. But next week, Tony Blair gets the Leveson treatment. Ought to be a sorely needed reprieve for the remaining Tories in this thread, but it won't last.
Also, new rules restricting the unauthorized use of cookies (as in, Internet cookies) come into force in the UK this weekend. Finally, a good excuse to use Adblock on NeoGAF.
NOT THAT I EVER WOULD PLEASE DON'T BAN ME EVILORE
I take it back. I've got a new personal adviser, and I think I've finally found my Ms. Right. Blonde, cute face, nice juicy tits, dat ass, doze legs, school-marm glasses - I don't stand a snowball's chance in hell, but I tell ya - I'd happily scrub sewers for her. <3
In other news, I think I'm now over Louise Mensch. Rejoice!
*******
So, Cam has "no regrets" over appointing Hunt to the BSkyB overseeing job despite the cunt happily volunteering to become Rupert and James' spit roast, eh? Well, goody for him. Let's see if Leveson can make him regret it. But next week, Tony Blair gets the Leveson treatment. Ought to be a sorely needed reprieve for the remaining Tories in this thread, but it won't last.
Also, new rules restricting the unauthorized use of cookies (as in, Internet cookies) come into force in the UK this weekend. Finally, a good excuse to use Adblock on NeoGAF.
NOT THAT I EVER WOULD PLEASE DON'T BAN ME EVILORE
I was wondering why every UK based site I visit was asking me about cookies.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Slow news day for politics at the BBC?
MP for Bristol East tweets that a drunk passenger playing loud techno music on a train and wearing a tshirt saying "I fucked your girlfriend" - should have been killed before he could breed. Obviously a flippant joke.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18204464
I tweeted a couple of do-gooders who were shitting on her for it... MPs should be allowed to hold all morons in such humorous disdain imo, she's probably only said what everyone on the train was thinking. People who play music without earphones on trains should be killed. No kidding... throw it in the railway bylaws that they're allowed to be thrown off while the train is moving at high speed. The world will be a better place.
MP for Bristol East tweets that a drunk passenger playing loud techno music on a train and wearing a tshirt saying "I fucked your girlfriend" - should have been killed before he could breed. Obviously a flippant joke.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18204464
I tweeted a couple of do-gooders who were shitting on her for it... MPs should be allowed to hold all morons in such humorous disdain imo, she's probably only said what everyone on the train was thinking. People who play music without earphones on trains should be killed. No kidding... throw it in the railway bylaws that they're allowed to be thrown off while the train is moving at high speed. The world will be a better place.
It's a bit of a mess of a law to be honest. Nobody really knows how little they can do to avoid being fined the £500k per infringement, and the regulator seems to not really care about enforcing it.
People villify cookies, but at the end of the day a lot of sites require 99% coverage in order to pay affiliates and having meaningful analytics.
I think most sites are going to go with increasing the weighting of existing Cookie messaging and showing a big list of what's being placed. If you keep using the website, *that*'s your opt-in.
Are you kidding, duder? NO. Never let a politician decide who should or should not die, not even in jest - it never ends well.
On a more serious note, it was extremely stupid of her to express such disdain for ANY potential voter, especially if they are behaving badly but still within the law (as the drunk techno fan was, unless we now can't have the word "fucked" on T-shirts anymore). They came for the Gabba-blaring drunks, and nobody would speak out for them. Then they came for me, and there were no Gabba-blaring drunks to speak out for me.
VERY EDIT: Baroness Warsi, not known for her intelligence and grasp of diplomacy and candor, apparently claimed parliamentary expenses while living rent-free at a friend's flat. She's on her way out, folks.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Are you kidding, duder? NO. Never let a politician decide who should or should not die, not even in jest - it never ends well.
On a more serious note, it was extremely stupid of her to express such disdain for ANY potential voter, especially if they are behaving badly but still within the law (as the drunk techno fan was, unless we now can't have the word "fucked" on T-shirts anymore). They came for the Gabba-blaring drunks, and nobody would speak out for them. Then they came for me, and there were no Gabba-blaring drunks to speak out for me.
VERY EDIT: Baroness Warsi, not known for her intelligence and grasp of diplomacy and candor, apparently claimed parliamentary expenses while living rent-free at a friend's flat. She's on her way out, folks.
It may have been stupid to say that but we all think that kind of thing, there shouldn't be any fuss made about it.
Warsi is useless and corrupt, wow.
killer_clank
Member
ah, a classic property related expenses scandal. rookie error.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18223324
i am enjoying this government's self implosion, if only they weren't fucking up the country in the process
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18223324
i am enjoying this government's self implosion, if only they weren't fucking up the country in the process