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[kitch9]

What a cunt. Sadly he paid the ticket in the end so will just laugh it off if questioned. The guy really can't stand the "public" can he?

Osbourne never spoke to anyone, standard was full so he couldn't stick with his colleagues. The aide went to negotiate price with the manager after they sat in first class, couldn't get them to budge and they paid for first.. A journalist overheard the negotiation.

The desperate journo has somehow managed to turn it into this clusterfuck of questionable wording.

 

[radioheadrule83]

He did it in May,
http://t.co/tC9dzUGo
so if he tried it again its plebgate2 to the press... Maybe not an important story to the everyman but of course the media care! It's not a none story. Only Tory Defence Force would say it is ;p

Total non story, the journalist who was on the train who supposedly heard his aide negotiating the ticket was on the TV... She sounded like a desperate hack who was gagging for a story....

She's not a desperate hack and there were other witnesses. Virgin have just issued a statement saying there was no disagreement and that Osborne and aide didn't seek a free upgrade... Oh how beautiful it would be if that was proven to be bollocks.

 

[Wes]

I'm siding with George. Why should he have to sit in pleb class seating?

 

[kitch9]

She's not a desperate hack and there were other witnesses. Virgin have just issued a statement saying there was no disagreement and that Osborne and aide didn't seek a free upgrade... Oh how beautiful it would be if that was proven to be bollocks.

Thats the thing the Journalist was being vague as fuck as to what happened, she even admitted standard was full with only single seats available. There were no stand up arguments, nothing to "witness."

Its a little pathetic.

 

[kitch9]

I'm siding with George. Why should he have to sit in pleb class seating?

Do you think cabinet ministers sit watching iPlayer on the train or something?

 

[Empty]

i broadly have contempt for these kind of stories, they are a waste of everyone's time and i don't have a problem with important people seeking to work in the calm of first class or even other types of "luxury" transport.

but i do find it hard to get upset when it's osborne or pickles. they can stew in it.

 

[Yen]

Total non story, the journalist who was on the train who supposedly heard his aide negotiating the ticket was on the TV... She sounded like a desperate hack who was gagging for a story....

You are by far the biggest Tory apologist on this site. Ridiculous.

 

[SteveWD40]

You are by far the biggest Tory apologist on this site. Ridiculous.

I just ignore him now, he is either trolling or just so blindly partisan he can't pull his head from his arse. He also does the usual "prove me wrong and I just won't reply anymore" thing well known amongst bridge dwellers.

 

[Psychotext]

George Osborne refuses to sit in standard class despite NOT having First Class ticket

When this happened to me I didn't get an option to sit in standard class. Was ridiculous, I didn't even realise I'd sat in First Class and I was given a choice of getting off the train or paying £50.

 

[Jackpot]

Total non story, the journalist who was on the train who supposedly heard his aide negotiating the ticket was on the TV... She sounded like a desperate hack who was gagging for a story....

You seem to be a little one-sided.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

As much as I hate the fucking Sun...

I laughed at that headline.

 

[PJV3]

Mitchell is still going to cause headaches for the government, parliament is now investigating the £16,000,000 loan he gave to president Kagame of Rwanda against advice from his own department.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I like how 'Tory apologist' is followed by 'ridiculous' and said in a generally demeaning tone. There are some very, very high horses around these here parts.

 

[Psychotext]

So being a Tory apologist is a good thing now?

 

[PJV3]

Mitchell's replacement in yonder days.

 

[Pie and Beans]

I like how 'Tory apologist' is followed by 'ridiculous' and said in a generally demeaning tone. There are some very, very high horses around these here parts.

Tory apologists breaking out high horse analogies are my favourite! Some quality snafu's recently, see no reason to not be sticking the boot in. God knows the "ITS ALL GORDON'S FAULT" brigade have had their 3 year run of crowing.

 

[CyclopsRock]

So being a Tory apologist is a good thing now?

If anyone honestly thinks the world of partisan politics in the UK is split into 'good' and 'bad', they're mental. The whole thing is full of utter, cretinous shits. I've never voted for the Tories in my life (Pie and Beans), but you have to be a special kind of detached or, dare I say it, tribal, to get all "*sigh* look at him, defending that party. What a schlup!" as the attitude appears to be in here. For every Osborne riding in first class, you have a Ussher defrauding the exchequer of £20k whilst a minister in the treasury. For every plebian gate-scream on one side of the aisle, you have a burley wanker of a deputy prime minister slogging a member of the electorate on the other.

Shouting about how it's ALL GORDON'S FAULT is an argument put forward that you can argue with. Calling Osborne a twat for sitting in first class when he didn't have a ticket is a view you can argue with. But decrying someone not because of the arguments they are proposing, but because those arguments are defending a specific party? That absolutely deserves a lack of respect. When you do that you're circumventing the discussion and jumping immediately to the conclusion - you might as well not bother, and it's the partisan equivalent of saying "LOL DAILY FAIL" whilst ignoring the article's argument entirely.

 

[Dambrosi]

I like how 'Tory apologist' is followed by 'ridiculous' and said in a generally demeaning tone. There are some very, very high horses around these here parts.

...really? I expect better from you, Cyke.

Tell you what, you can drum up another impenetrable wall of text on how Gideon and Andy-poo are not, in fact, a couple of incompetent, elitist cuntwads if it makes you feel any better. Maybe add a few graphs here and there, y'know, for colour.

...

We should be able to criticise public servants for their screw-ups and failures. Are you saying we can't, just 'coz it's too partisan and one-sided and shit? Piffle.

Oh, and Prescott was acting in self-defense and you damn well know it. He shouldn't have acted at all, of course, but it is what it is.

 

[travisbickle]

Osbourne never spoke to anyone, standard was full so he couldn't stick with his colleagues. The aide went to negotiate price with the manager after they sat in first class, couldn't get them to budge and they paid for first.. A journalist overheard the negotiation.

The desperate journo has somehow managed to turn it into this clusterfuck of questionable wording.

Government aides trying to "negotiate a price" while on the train!!!! Holy fuckin' shit maybe they will listen to the public next time someone tells them train fares are similar to day-light robbery!!

 

[nib95]

Government aides trying to "negotiate a price" while on the train!!!! Holy fuckin' shit maybe they will listen to the public next time someone tells them train fares are similar to day-light robbery!!

Train fares are fucking horrendous. Far more expensive and less reliable than most train transport systems in many other popular developed European countries (Germany, France, Sweden, Norway etc). Interesting that in nearly all of these countries the main rail networks are state owned.

 

[CyclopsRock]

...really? I expect better from you, Cyke.

Tell you what, you can drum up another impenetrable wall of text on how Gideon and Andy-poo are not, in fact, a couple of incompetent, elitist cuntwads if it makes you feel any better. Maybe add a few graphs here and there, y'know, for colour.

...

We should be able to criticise public servants for their screw-ups and failures. Are you saying we can't, just 'coz it's too partisan and one-sided and shit? Piffle.

Oh, and Prescott was acting in self-defense and you damn well know it. He shouldn't have acted at all, of course, but it is what it is.

Well, apparantly what you expect of me is rather to different to what my post history suggests. You won't be able to find a long post of me defending the Tories. I just said I've never voted for them. And regarding the graphs - well, I apologise if you'd rather this place became your mutual wank-off, self reinforcing echo chamber but from my perspective, having actual data tends to advance a debate, not hinder it.

I also think maybe you should re-read my actual post, since not only did I not say that you can't criticise them, I specifically said you could. I'll quote it, since apparantly that two paragraph 'wall of text' was too impenetrable for you: "Calling Osborne a twat for sitting in first class when he didn't have a ticket is a view you can argue with." You're right, we should be able to criticise the Tories, and I don't care what you say about Osborne on a train (though a little dose of the actual events might not go amiss here, since it's the little details everyone is flapping about). I was replying to the apologist line, and lambasting the idea that one rolls their eyes and disregards, with a lazy wave of the hand, someone's views on the grounds that they're a 'Tory apologist'. It skips the debate and leaps immediately to the conclusion based on the colour of ones shirt. It's lazy and pointless - the football OT is here. if that's what you want. If a politics thread is to mean anything, it should be a forum for debate and discussion, not somewhere that people are ignored on the grounds that they're a Tory.

And finally, re: Prescott. Well, you're just an apologist, aren't you?

 

[SteveWD40]

with a lazy wave of the hand, someone's views on the grounds that they're a 'Tory apologist'.

Although I agree with your sentiment, and you are correct that this thread can be an echo chamber at times (for example, bring up the recent positive economic news and certain people will just ridicule you and then circle jerk together), kitch is ridiculous in his blind defence of anything Tory.

 

[Dambrosi]

Well, apparantly what you expect of me is rather to different to what my post history suggests. You won't be able to find a long post of me defending the Tories. I just said I've never voted for them. And regarding the graphs - well, I apologise if you'd rather this place became your mutual wank-off, self reinforcing echo chamber but from my perspective, having actual data tends to advance a debate, not hinder it.

I also think maybe you should re-read my actual post, since not only did I not say that you can't criticise them, I specifically said you could. I'll quote it, since apparantly that two paragraph 'wall of text' was too impenetrable for you: "Calling Osborne a twat for sitting in first class when he didn't have a ticket is a view you can argue with." You're right, we should be able to criticise the Tories, and I don't care what you say about Osborne on a train (though a little dose of the actual events might not go amiss here, since it's the little details everyone is flapping about). I was replying to the apologist line, and lambasting the idea that one rolls their eyes and disregards, with a lazy wave of the hand, someone's views on the grounds that they're a 'Tory apologist'. It skips the debate and leaps immediately to the conclusion based on the colour of ones shirt. It's lazy and pointless - the football OT is here. if that's what you want. If a politics thread is to mean anything, it should be a forum for debate and discussion, not somewhere that people are ignored on the grounds that they're a Tory.

And finally, re: Prescott. Well, you're just an apologist, aren't you?

I see your point about the echo chamber tendency of this thread, but...you're moaning about someone calling out kitch9 for being a big ol' troll? It's just like SteveWD40 says - kitch goes way too far to be credible, so it's only right that he gets taken to task sometimes. I mean, this reply, man:

Osbourne never spoke to anyone, standard was full so he couldn't stick with his colleagues. The aide went to negotiate price with the manager after they sat in first class, couldn't get them to budge and they paid for first.. A journalist overheard the negotiation.

The desperate journo has somehow managed to turn it into this clusterfuck of questionable wording.

As if getting his aide to negotiate a ticket price for him (and failing!) wasn't bad enough...I mean, I'd love to be able to haggle with the conductor next time I get on the commuter car to Warrington, might save myself a few quid! Never mind getting someone else to do it for me!

Also, how does reporting a factual account of an incident involving a powerful public figure make that journalist "desperate" in any way? You ask me, kitch needs to get his bootstraps out of his arse.

As for John Prescott, well...at least we have video evidence for that one

Like I said, he shouldn't have done it regardless, it's bad form. But fuck me if it wasn't funny.

 

[kitch9]

If anyone honestly thinks the world of partisan politics in the UK is split into 'good' and 'bad', they're mental. The whole thing is full of utter, cretinous shits. I've never voted for the Tories in my life (Pie and Beans), but you have to be a special kind of detached or, dare I say it, tribal, to get all "*sigh* look at him, defending that party. What a schlup!" as the attitude appears to be in here. For every Osborne riding in first class, you have a Ussher defrauding the exchequer of £20k whilst a minister in the treasury. For every plebian gate-scream on one side of the aisle, you have a burley wanker of a deputy prime minister slogging a member of the electorate on the other.

Shouting about how it's ALL GORDON'S FAULT is an argument put forward that you can argue with. Calling Osborne a twat for sitting in first class when he didn't have a ticket is a view you can argue with. But decrying someone not because of the arguments they are proposing, but because those arguments are defending a specific party? That absolutely deserves a lack of respect. When you do that you're circumventing the discussion and jumping immediately to the conclusion - you might as well not bother, and it's the partisan equivalent of saying "LOL DAILY FAIL" whilst ignoring the article's argument entirely.

No dude, its Gafs way or the highway, opinions do not matter.

I honestly find most parties have ideas I like, and ideas I dislike, and ideas I hate. Whoever has the best ideas I feel around election time get my vote, and I've voted either way in the past.

I find it a little retarded to worry about a £160 train ticket paid on a busy train to obtain some space for a cabinet minister when we are trying to sort the small matter of the massive banking collapse and the £500 billion + plus bill its left us with to be honest.

Some things are more important, and if a cabinet minister whoever it may be needs to spend a few quid to get the job done then so be it.

 

[kitch9]

I see your point about the echo chamber tendency of this thread, but...you're moaning about someone calling out kitch9 for being a big ol' troll? It's just like SteveWD40 says - kitch goes way too far to be credible, so it's only right that he gets taken to task sometimes. I mean, this reply, man:


As if getting his aide to negotiate a ticket price for him (and failing!) wasn't bad enough...I mean, I'd love to be able to haggle with the conductor next time I get on the commuter car to Warrington, might save myself a few quid! Never mind getting someone else to do it for me!

Also, how does reporting a factual account of an incident involving a powerful public figure make that journalist "desperate" in any way? You ask me, kitch needs to get his bootstraps out of his arse.

As for John Prescott, well...at least we have video evidence for that one

Like I said, he shouldn't have done it regardless, it's bad form. But fuck me if it wasn't funny.

The reporter in question was on the news last night, this was one of the more cringe worthy lines she came out with:

"Admittedly, standard was full, BUT, there was the odd seat.... George could have sat next to me for instance!"

For gods sake can we move on a focus on the important stuff like our new £1 Trillion public debt badge we are now wearing.

Eh?

Please?

 

[War Peaceman]

So long as he paid for the upgrade himself, it isn't a big deal. He's a prick but we already knew that - he positively embraces such a reputation.

 

[nib95]

The reporter in question was on the news last night, this was one of the more cringe worthy lines she came out with:

"Admittedly, standard was full, BUT, there was the odd seat.... George could have sat next to me for instance!"

For gods sake can we move on a focus on the important stuff like our new £1 Trillion public debt badge we are now wearing.

Eh?

Please?

Standard is not full if there are empty seats. Take it from an ordinary user like me who trains a lot and has never been allowed a free first class upgrade, even when people have literally been standing in the alleys in crowds. Only time I've ever got a free upgrade is when the train was jam packed AND there had been 2 cancellations and severe delays.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Standard is not full if there are empty seats. Take it from an ordinary user like me who trains a lot and has never been allowed a free first class upgrade, even when people have literally been standing in the alleys in crowds. Only time I've ever got a free upgrade is when the train was jam packed AND there had been 2 cancellations and severe delays.

George didn't get a free upgrade, and according to Virgin Trains, nor did he ask for one.

 

[nib95]

George didn't get a free upgrade, and according to Virgin Trains, nor did he ask for one.

So why exactly was he sat in 1st class without 1st class tickets then?

 

[CyclopsRock]

So why exactly was he sat in 1st class without 1st class tickets then?

Well, my understanding (I wouldn't want to call them 'facts' as they keep changing) is that he wanted to sit next to his aide, which he couldn't do in standard. So he went into First and bought a ticket when the ticket guy came round (which is the first opportunity you have to do so).

If he were being a twat, I'd happilly call him a twat. But I don't think he was here.

That said, I agree that he loves being hated. I think he likes it for real stuff, though, rather than the nonsense like this. That's why I don't think we have the same Blair-Brown handover issue with Cam and Osborne - Osborne couldn't ever be PM. He's like the evil deputy headmaster, caning students in the study whilst the Headmaster smiles and shows parents around their kids new school.

 

[Rourkey]

So why exactly was he sat in 1st class without 1st class tickets then?

They immediately went to pay for an upgrade, you are allowed to do that! Infact the conductors often come up to you and offer to upgrade you for a discount!

Such a non story!

 

[kitch9]

Standard is not full if there are empty seats. Take it from an ordinary user like me who trains a lot and has never been allowed a free first class upgrade, even when people have literally been standing in the alleys in crowds. Only time I've ever got a free upgrade is when the train was jam packed AND there had been 2 cancellations and severe delays.

Its full if there's 4 in an entourage on government business and they need to sit together.

A copper informed the trains manager they were getting on, and they were sitting in first as there was no room for them to sit together without the correct ticket, the aide went to sort it, had a discussion and they paid.

Get over it.

Unlike clearly others here I am not stupid enough to reserve my vote for any one party. I believed Labour when they insisted they had beat boom and bust, saying it couldn't happen so I voted for them only for the country to be rewarded with a massive crash and a £500 billion bill for our kids to pay.

Apparantly, Gaf says we should forget that not even though we can only dream of getting it paid by 2030, and the only way we'll do that is with decades of sustained growth AND massive public spending cuts for years. Yeah, lets forget about that and start worrying about a £160 train ticket and lets fully believe a journalists dubious wording as they NEVER lie right?

The blind naivety of some here astounds me. I'll judge the Coalition when its time to vote, and if I feel that Tory policies are not working and Labour have the answers and will not repeat the monumental fuckup they created the last time in power then I may vote Labour.

This mess was never going to be fixed in 2 years, hell I think it will be 4-5 years at least before the Eurozone can be classed as stable, we just need to return to growth without letting spending get out of control and I don't think Labour are the party to be trusted with that.

Sorry if that hurts some of your feelings, but I don't

They immediately went to pay for an upgrade, you are allowed to do that! Infact the conductors often come up to you and offer to upgrade you for a discount!

Such a non story!

Careful, you'll be labelled an apologist! Realists don't exist apparently.

 

[SteveWD40]

Now who's circle jerking, keep "quoting" each other and you will go blind.

 

[kitch9]

Now who's circle jerking, keep "quoting" each other and you will go blind.

Uh, yeah. I'm sure whatever point you were trying to make was a good one....

 

[SteveWD40]

Uh, yeah. I'm sure whatever point you were trying to make was a good one....

Feeling like you actually want to respond now you have someone defending you? Ok.

You constantly seek out any post you can interprete as a slight on the Torys and then drag Labour into it, I am not the only one who has noticed it. Point made, feel free to disagree.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Hopi Sen posted an interesting post today.

http://hopisen.com/2012/why-im-not-marching/

Can't say I disagree with much of it, though my emphasis would be more on the pro business rather than infrastructure side.

 

[Nicktendo86]

They immediately went to pay for an upgrade, you are allowed to do that! Infact the conductors often come up to you and offer to upgrade you for a discount!

Such a non story!

Seems like a non story to me, actually impressed they wanted to sit in standard at all. The twat solicitors in the law firm I work in always demand they want to sit in 1st and if they are told no they go to 1st anyway and pay the difference on the train, then claim it back on expenses. Not sure why I have just gone into this rant, the fuckers piss me off. Fucking hate lawyers.

 

[kitch9]

Feeling like you actually want to respond now you have someone defending you? Ok.

You constantly seek out any post you can interprete as a slight on the Torys and then drag Labour into it, I am not the only one who has noticed it. Point made, feel free to disagree.

I feel I have to remind some of the policies that got us in the mess we are in yes.

Some would rather "forget" that and focus on train tickets though.

I wonder why?

 

[kitch9]

Hopi Sen posted an interesting post today.

http://hopisen.com/2012/why-im-not-marching/

Can't say I disagree with much of it, though my emphasis would be more on the pro business rather than infrastructure side.

Can't say I disagree with much of that either... The best we can hope for until the banks and the Eurozone are stable is slow growth.

Until SMEs can go to a bank and ask for money to invest without getting laughed out of the place because they have seen a small drop in turnover in the last 24 months we aren't going anywhere fast no matter how much the government spends.

If someone wants me to remind those who've "forgot" why this is happening please feel free to ask.

 

[SteveWD40]

I feel I have to remind some of the policies that got us in the mess we are in yes.

Some would rather "forget" that and focus on train tickets though.

I wonder why?

If someone wants me to remind those who've "forgot" why this is happening please feel free to ask.

Dat arrogance

Oh and just to get you thinking, much of the "mess" you are talking about actually started under Thatcher and Major, the Torys would have done exactly the same as Labour during the boom as well, there are no fiscal conservatives when there is political capital to be made during a Bull market.

All politicians are shit in their own way, the good ones are usually never let near power so are able to be much more honest and therefore win our favour. I like to think if things improve it will be in spite of the govt (although they will take credit of course).

As for SME's, we have never had much help from anyone, even when banks were throwing money out it wasn't helping anyone, just plugging holes in cashflow. SME's need more availability of training, advisement and legal protections, in fact I think there should be separate corporate law for small company's (sub 50 staff) that protect both party's that cannot be abused by large corporates.

 

[kitch9]

Dat arrogance

Oh and just to get you thinking, much of the "mess" you are talking about actually started under Thatcher and Major, the Torys would have done exactly the same as Labour during the boom as well, there are no fiscal conservatives when there is political capital to be made during a Bull market.

All politicians are shit in their own way, the good ones are usually never let near power so are able to be much more honest and therefore win our favour. I like to think if things improve it will be in spite of the govt (although they will take credit of course).

As for SME's, we have never had much help from anyone, even when banks were throwing money out it wasn't helping anyone, just plugging holes in cashflow. SME's need more availability of training, advisement and legal protections, in fact I think there should be separate corporate law for small company's (sub 50 staff) that protect both party's that cannot be abused by large corporates.

You'll probably find a lot of SMEs are recapitalising if they can instead of investing, purely because they cannot depend on the banks making money available if needed.

Saying SMEs only use banks to "plug cashflow" shows how little you know and understand about the subject . One of the last things most SMEs will be worried about is large corporation abuse too... It's not a priority.

Whether the Tories "would" have done the same thing is moot... I thought the reason you didn't like the Tories is because they do different stuff to what you want so how can you now say they would be the same?

The "good" politicians can promise what they want when not in power. You'll find that changes when they are in power and they have no alternatives.

 

[SteveWD40]

Saying SMEs only use banks to "plug cashflow" shows how little you know and understand about the subject . One of the last things most SMEs will be worried about is large corporation abuse too... It's not a priority.

MOAR arrogance.

I run a corporate finance brokerage, I have been providing funding for SME's for 12 years, but please keep telling me how little I know.

Whether the Tories "would" have done the same thing is moot... I thought the reason you didn't like the Tories is because they do different stuff to what you want so how can you now say they would be the same?

When did I say that? I just don't abide by the old boys club who think they were "born to lead", their policys are a mixed bag to my eye.

 

[kitch9]

MOAR arrogance.

I run a corporate finance brokerage, I have been providing funding for SME's for 12 years, but please keep telling me how little I know.




When did I say that? I just don't abide by the old boys club who think they were "born to lead", their policys are a mixed bag to my eye.

So you deal with haulage firms who after many years of trading are finding getting funding for new vehicles a struggle with punitive deposits being asked for? Construction firms who normally finance their vans and equipment who have to pay cash for them instead as their turnover has dropped slightly and the banks don't want to know? Manufacturers who cannot finance and invest in new machines and equipment even though they have proven orders? I could go on and on. I'm lucky, I haven't seen any drop in my business, but if I want to buy a new van I effectively have to go into the bank and beg with last 3 years accounts now instead of just ringing my business manager and getting it sorted in 10 minutes over the phone. The risk managers have to be sure they are backing only the surest of bets, and God help anyone with the smallest blip or sign of issues on their records at the minute.

The situation is easing slightly but we are a long way to getting out of the woods.

Quite frankly it beggars belief that a corporate finance broker would say small and medium companies only want money to "plug cashflow."

I'm sure growing and investment in their business has always been the last thing they want to do.

 

[SteveWD40]

Quite frankly it beggars belief that a corporate finance broker would say small and medium companies only want money to "plug cashflow."

I'm sure growing and investment in their business has always been the last thing they want to do.

Maybe I should clarify, the banks were lending and the businesses were taking the money, but often the banks were not offering much in the way of guidance, when people were coming in for a bigger overdrafts they were not advised on factoring or invoice discounting, just given the extension.

Facility's were given out that did not suit the customer (loans for capital purchase instead of the more tax efficient leasing for example).

If you had a good accountant you might have avoided this but then, when the banks got hit, they pulled these loans and overdrafts en masse.

Many firms were plugging cashflow gaps, there were far too many startups with no business plan just existing on debt, it's natural in a boom. I saw hundreds of them from 2003-2007 with not a single clue looking for funding, we would ask for common sense information and then find out their bank just threw the money at them cheap without asking them to actually justify how it was going to work.

 

[kitch9]

Maybe I should clarify, the banks were lending and the businesses were taking the money, but often the banks were not offering much in the way of guidance, when people were coming in for a bigger overdrafts they were not advised on factoring or invoice discounting, just given the extension.

Facility's were given out that did not suit the customer (loans for capital purchase instead of the more tax efficient leasing for example).

If you had a good accountant you might have avoided this but then, when the banks got hit, they pulled these loans and overdrafts en masse.

Many firms were plugging cashflow gaps, there were far too many startups with no business plan just existing on debt, it's natural in a boom. I saw hundreds of them from 2003-2007 with not a single clue looking for funding, we would ask for common sense information and then find out their bank just threw the money at them cheap without asking them to actually justify how it was going to work.

That was too far the other way, banks at the minute are refusing funding for long term businesses with strong balance sheets simply because they didn't do as well over the past year than they have before.

That's the other extreme to how things were. But yes I agree new businesses do need to have some control and they need to prove themselves over at least 3 years or so before money is "thrown" at them.

 

[SteveWD40]

That was too far the other way, banks at the minute are refusing funding for long term businesses with strong balance sheets simply because they didn't do as well over the past year than they have before.

That's the other extreme to how things were. But yes I agree new businesses do need to have some control and they need to prove themselves over at least 3 years or so before money is "thrown" at them.

Ah yes, the underwriters favourite: "declining trends" :/

They got dragged over the coals in 2008 and their risk teams are terrified of risk. I provide an alternative for said strong balance sheet company's, they should only be using the bank for certain products anyway frankly as the leasing and factoring industry's are far more flexible.

I fund new starts all the time, but it's done in a responsible way (we only fund the assets they need, soft assets though such as catering, IT hardware and software etc...), we expect them to cover cashflow for marketing and recruitment.

Edit: I feel like I am talking shop a bit much here, sorry. lolpolitics?

 

[phisheep]

Interesting discussion guys.

It isn't a problem I see myself, but then I've only been trading four months - but also I've had no problem at all in getting a bank loan approved on three months trading figures. Maybe the way I approached it helped: I set this up right when we started the business in February, that we'd need a 'chat' after three months trading once I had got my head around how the business was doing and what the market and the competition looked like. The 'chat' happened as planned, it was no surprise at all that I wanted money but the manager was pleasantly astonished at just how well we'd done our homework and the fact that everything was all documented and wrapped up in a short 12-page report so he didn't have to ask too many questions. Loan went through pretty well on the nod.

 

[Dambrosi]

Yeah, so I was wondering if everyone had seen the Daily Mail's front page today:

I gotta say, it kinda threw me for a loop. This isn't the Mail I know!

WHAT?! That's it, I'm cancelling my subscription!

Spoiler

Just kidding, no offence

 

[Rourkey]

MP's Expenses stats for first class travel, makes for interesting reading!

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/leftwatch/2012/10/44-of-labour-mps-have-claimed-for-first-class-travel-in-last-year-33-of-libdems-and-only-16-of-torie.html

 

[nib95]

1. Great discussion between Steve and Kitch. Steve, I may have to use your services one day.

2. What's with the recent influx of traditionally right wing media suddenly turning on the Tories? I quite like it! Lol.

3. Lol at that picture above. Oh dear Labour. Stop claiming first class on our dime you pompous buggers!