I get that, but there's not going to be a proper debate even though it's a free vote. All the Tories are in their strategy meeting with Crosby, and every one else is essentially away. It's a relatively sensible change but it should still be properly debated, as it is there will be a skeleton crew in the house 'debating' until the division bell is rang and then the Tories will come out of their meeting and vote without even the usual pretence of considering the issue.
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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
- Start date
I get that, but there's not going to be a proper debate even though it's a free vote. All the Tories are in their strategy meeting with Crosby, and every one else is essentially away. It's a relatively sensible change but it should still be properly debated, as it is there will be a skeleton crew in the house 'debating' until the division bell is rang and then the Tories will come out of their meeting and vote without even the usual pretence of considering the issue.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I agree, but the very idea the vote might fail would probably lead to mp's who would have voted for the bill to abstain or vote against. You would not get the true wishes of mp's with such a vote.
sticky wicket
zomgbbqftw
Banned
The issue is that Labour have previously politicised the position of the Speaker. First they put in that fat lump Michael Martin who was completely and utterly useless and forewent the tradition of having a speaker from the opposition benches. Then when Martin's disgraceful coverup of expenses was uncovered they replaced him with another of their own on Bercow (despite being nominally Tory, he is not a conservative) and again went against the tradition of letting the opposition choose the speaker and just voting it through.
This is the Tories fighting back on Labour's turf and getting Lindsay Hoyle in the chair who is not very popular with Labour but well liked among Tory backbenchers.
Personally I don't see it as a big deal, the speaker is a largely ceremonial position and I think it is a waste of tla campaign day for the Tories to be fannying around to unseat Bercow when they should be out trying to win the election. It just goes to show how little confidence they have of winning, of they were then the debate wouldn't be necessary and they could vote Lindsay Hoyle into the chair without needing opposition members.
This is the Tories fighting back on Labour's turf and getting Lindsay Hoyle in the chair who is not very popular with Labour but well liked among Tory backbenchers.
Personally I don't see it as a big deal, the speaker is a largely ceremonial position and I think it is a waste of tla campaign day for the Tories to be fannying around to unseat Bercow when they should be out trying to win the election. It just goes to show how little confidence they have of winning, of they were then the debate wouldn't be necessary and they could vote Lindsay Hoyle into the chair without needing opposition members.
Hague's getting a kicking in the Commons at the moment, mostly from the Tory awkward squad.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I doubt he cares, he'll be back on the event speaking gravy train soon enough
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Sadly the motion was defeated, yet more bercow on the horizon
Government lost the vote 202 to 228. It seems a fair few Tories didn't like the manner in which the operation was conducted. Had they not tried to cram it through the backdoor at the last second then it probably would have succeeded.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
What a bunch of cretins. Should have been focused on electioneering, not baby games. On the other hand, a brilliant end for Hague.
It's not an election thing at all. It'll not register with the public much if at all.
I believe it was a clever idea, you know like lying by omission to a Parliamentary Committee, rung up by Crosby or the Tory whips office to send their MP's off campaigning on a high which has spectacularly backfired.
The only interesting thing was just how angry some Tory MP's were, even ones who'd previously supported secret ballots for the position of speaker. I mean some of them were clearly fuming even one's who've stuck the previously boot into Bercow. David Davis was beeling and he'd climb over his dying mother to kick Bercow.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Honestly what a waste of time. The Tories need to be out there campaigning not wasting time like this.
I agree that Bercow is a pompous fool, but the public literally don't give a shit. Wasting time like this and failing to remove him just makes them look incompetent. Couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery these lot.
I agree that Bercow is a pompous fool, but the public literally don't give a shit. Wasting time like this and failing to remove him just makes them look incompetent. Couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery these lot.
Yeah, that's the sort of thing which was interesting. It seems strange Gove (and obviously Hague not that it matters now) would expend a lot of political capital for something so hamfisted.
Had they presented this as a normal debate and vote a week or so ago then it would have probably passed. There's enough support on both sides for it regardless of individuals feelings about the current Speaker.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Not just that but if there is a continuation of the current coalition they would easily have the numbers to remove him and embarrass him with a public vote. This move literally makes no sense.
Complete and utter stupidity.
Applauding someone is actually extremely rare in the house of commons. Seeing a Tory MP who actually gave a shit was something to behold. It also showed how stupid and utterly unfeeling to their own MP's are people like Gove and Hague.
This whole thing was disgusting waste of parliament time and all it did was hand the government a defeat.
Glad to see Bercow keep the job AND get it right up Gove and Hague.
To be clear the Speaker is already elected via a secret ballot. However they need to be re-elected every parliamentary term but any speaker who wishes to continue has normally done so without the need of a formal vote. Hague wanted the rules changed so that any voice opposition when being re-elected would trigger an election of a new speaker. No speaker has been voted out of office in over 300 years.
The speaker also has not traditionally come from the Opposition benches either with Betty Boothroyd being the first opposition MP in a century raised to Speaker.
To be clear the Speaker is already elected via a secret ballot. However they need to be re-elected every parliamentary term but any speaker who wishes to continue has normally done so without the need of a formal vote. Hague wanted the rules changed so that any voice opposition when being re-elected would trigger an election of a new speaker. No speaker has been voted out of office in over 300 years.
The speaker also has not traditionally come from the Opposition benches either with Betty Boothroyd being the first opposition MP in a century raised to Speaker.
No. I anticipated the date of the debates to be April 1st, hence it will go up in 6 days. (perhaps slightly earlier).
The first "head to head" between Cameron and Milliband is tonight though. Should really be up for that.
Parliament is closed and election season is in effect.
Sorry, but if other posters feel strong about this, feel free to post a thread before next week.
I'd forgotten about that. Cheers for the reminder.
Yeh sure if you want. If will be super placeholder though.
Probably for the best, as this is pretty much the starting point for the election campaign.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
"Whoever wins, Clegg loses"
It's all I've got.
It's all I've got.
Ok out of these: (thanks JonathanEx)
UK General Election 2015 | Whoever wins, we all lose.
UK General Election 2015 | No you can't vote for Rage Against The Machine instead
UK General Election 2015 | Is it over yet
UK General Election 2015 | Red and yellow and pink and green purple and orange and blue and that's just the first round of debates
UK General Election 2015 | Can't organise an election in a brewery
UK General Election 2015 | RELEASE THE DIMBLEBY
UK General Election 2015 | Whoever wins, we all lose.
UK General Election 2015 | No you can't vote for Rage Against The Machine instead
UK General Election 2015 | Is it over yet
UK General Election 2015 | Red and yellow and pink and green purple and orange and blue and that's just the first round of debates
UK General Election 2015 | Can't organise an election in a brewery
UK General Election 2015 | RELEASE THE DIMBLEBY
anonymous_abc
Member
I think that would be fair, especially as this one has had a fair life so far.
CyclopsRock
Member
IMO we have until the official opening of parliament to think of a good title. "Much Blue, No Balls"? It needs to last for 5 years!
JonathanEx
Member
Better Together But Not With You, Or EU Actually
ACTUALLY NO
Right try and argue with me on this one. We should just quote something from this:
I've got strong opinions about aliens.
ACTUALLY NO
Right try and argue with me on this one. We should just quote something from this:
I've got strong opinions about aliens.
anonymous_abc
Member
So who gets to open the next OT?
CR?
CR?
Jezbollah
Member
Nice. I havent got much except for "Meet the new boss.. Same as the old boss.."
CyclopsRock
Member
So who gets to open the next OT?
CR?
Oh fuck me.
What happened to ZOMG by the way - always enjoyed reading his posts?
And I'm not sure whether I should be proud or sad that my name has ended up on that list. I think I've posted more here and the election thread than all other threads combined. Which given that includes all the ME3 ending threads I posted in is fairly impressive!
And I'm not sure whether I should be proud or sad that my name has ended up on that list. I think I've posted more here and the election thread than all other threads combined. Which given that includes all the ME3 ending threads I posted in is fairly impressive!
I was looking forward to his posts during the election but haven't seen any
Jezbollah
Member
I think quite a few have taken a break from posting during the election period - Nicktendo, Zomg and a few others. Wayne Morse I would have expected to have been posting more in the election thread, but it depends on the coverage in the US, which there hasnt been much.
I suspect once we get back to a new government and a new thread that we'll be "back to normal" so to speak.
I suspect once we get back to a new government and a new thread that we'll be "back to normal" so to speak.
495 buddies!
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I hope it opens up a bit more. I did get the impression sometimes it was a bit like the backroom of the Conservative Club with a couple of interlopers. Mea culpa partly.
CyclopsRock
Member
It definitely was for a while, though it swung about. I remember when I first started posting it definitely felt more lefty. Then it swung around. But at all times I think there was always someone there willing to give both sides of any given argument which I think's the main thing.
JonathanEx
Member
All we have is our ideals, and once those are trampled on. And we could do nothing but cry.
Cry.
Like a baby.
And Nick Clegg after the EU elections.
PJV3
Member
I think that's partly because the left is fucked.
Trying to find answers when the power of institutions have been weakened, when the people don't really trust the state is difficult.
Labour will shift to follow the tories tail again, there's not much to debate really.