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[killer_clank]

HOO LEE FUCK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/04/milly-dowler-voicemail-hacked-news-of-world

This better cause an absolute shit storm, and A LOT more questions need to be asked of that absolute cunt rebekah brooks.

Truly fucking vile.

 

[Meadows]

The morale crusading, far-right NoTW revealed as the scumbag opportunists they are:

 

[DECK'ARD]

HOO LEE FUCK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/04/milly-dowler-voicemail-hacked-news-of-world

This better cause an absolute shit storm, and A LOT more questions need to be asked of that absolute cunt rebekah brooks.

Truly fucking vile.

That's disgusting.

 

[Saiyar]

HOO LEE FUCK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/04/milly-dowler-voicemail-hacked-news-of-world

This better cause an absolute shit storm, and A LOT more questions need to be asked of that absolute cunt rebekah brooks.

Truly fucking vile.

Don't forget Andy Hayman. He was the one that covered it up in the first place.

 

[Meadows]

David Cameron's face after Andy Coulson finally revealed who the NotW hacked.

 

[Wes]

HOO LEE FUCK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/04/milly-dowler-voicemail-hacked-news-of-world

This better cause an absolute shit storm, and A LOT more questions need to be asked of that absolute cunt rebekah brooks.

Truly fucking vile.

Disgusting.

 

[kharma45]

Nothing like being 14 and arrested for rioting

http://www.u.tv/News/Boy-arrested-f...6cd?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Scumbags.

 

[dr_octagon]

Legal aid U-turn 'will penalise the innocent'

 

[Meadows]

So in the midst of all of this financial malarkey Cameron, Clegg and Osbourne are on holiday, leaving Hague in charge of the country.

I can't help but think that they could have planned their holidays better than to have 3 of the top 4 cabinet ministers off at a time. If something happened to Hague then Kenneth Clarke would be in charge *shudders*.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Yeah, read that this morning elsewhere. Problem is that if Dave or George rush home newspapers will report it and markets will take it as an emergency etc... That will send bond prices down and interest rates up. The correct course of action is to do nothing, nothing that will set jittery markets off.

In future I think the three of them may want to co-ordinate their holidays so that at least one of them is in the UK at any one time.

 

[Meadows]

So Zomg, has Osbourne been vindicated by all of this? Has the UK's deficit reduction scheme helped or was it too little too late?

I know you're an expert in this from having seen quite a few pixe...I mean stocks in your time.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

So Zomg, has Osbourne been vindicated by all of this? Has the UK's deficit reduction scheme helped or was it too little too late?

I know you're an expert in this from having seen quite a few pixe...I mean stocks in your time.

Vindicated is a strong word, i think the signs are good, our bond prices have gone up, so our interest rates are lower than ever which is good. Honestly they need to cut faster and harder because the short term future doesn't look good, we should be better protected.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Vindicated is a strong word, i think the signs are good, our bond prices have gone up, so our interest rates are lower than ever which is good. Honestly they need to cut faster and harder because the short term future doesn't look good, we should be better protected.

Cutting harder and faster would have a tangible effect on the job market I think and the draw on benefits, they're just about getting away with cutting as fast as they are imo.

I'm not typically conservative, but I do think that a year or two down the line - providing the markets don't sink into another recession - then they will have been vindicated. I think it'll be clear that there's some things they've done wrong though too.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Cutting harder and faster would have a tangible effect on the job market I think and the draw on benefits, they're just about getting away with cutting as fast as they are imo.

I'm not typically conservative, but I do think that a year or two down the line - providing the markets don't sink into another recession - then they will have been vindicated. I think it'll be clear that there's some things they've done wrong though too.

I think the protection of the UK's AAA rating is the single most important thing the government needs to do. They need to do whatever it takes to make sure our borrowing costs don't go the way of Spain or Italy. If the UK defaults there isn't enough money in the world to bail us out, we would be on our own to fix it.

I think the problem with this government is that they were elected (or at least gained support after the election) on the premise of deficit reduction. They have been sidelined by too many other things like NHS reorganisations and that stupidly expensive high speed rail line. The government need to fix the deficit, everything else can wait for the second term.

If they do it and get to 2% by the end of 2015, I think voters will recognise a job well done and the Conservatives and Lib Dems will be rewarded at the polls, definitely a Con majority with Labour looking at big losses. They have opposed the deficit reduction plan from the outset and have been opposing for the sake of opposing. Ed Balls today came out and said the government weren't doing anything and Dave should be doing something. That is a load of rubbish, the last thing Dave should do is rush home and call a bunch of meetings, it will spook the markets and we would be in for a world of shit. We need Dave to stay on holiday, come back when he needs to and act like nothing is wrong.

On a side note it looks like Italy are about to legislate for a balanced budget, might be enough to get some confidence back into bond markets...

 

[Your Excellency]

Zomg is so informative on this stuff. Someone give this man his own 24 hour tv news channel.

 

[louis89]

Why doesn't the rest of Europe follow the UK's example?

 

[shock33]

Why doesn't the rest of Europe follow the UK's example?

Because everywhere else people go nuts and riot, here we go "gosh that seems extreme, oh well not much we can do about it" and get on with it.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Why doesn't the rest of Europe follow the UK's example?

Riots. Governmental upheaval. Revolutions.

In the UK and Germany it is possible to cut spending and balance the budget, people here understand money doesn't grow on trees and the sense of entitlement isn't so bad (though it has been getting worse over the last 10 years with middle classes drawing benefits). When the times get tough the population buckles down and gets on with it. Remember the UK unemployment rate is 7-8% which is very, very low for a recession, Labour predicted 3m unemployed with the Con/Lib spending plan, but it is about 2.3m.

In southern Europe and France, any entitlement cuts are met with serious resistance and rioting. Take a look at the pension changes in France as an example, the retirement and pensions in France are completely unaffordable, most people realise this, but they still went and rioted about it. Look at the public sector pension strikes here, the government similar changes and a few hundred thousand people made a mild-mannered protest. In fact the strike was useful for management seeing how they could streamline employment, I have heard people saying they know which departments they can cut and which are essential now.

Also, our economy is stronger just because we have our own currency and can set our own interest rates. Austerity has a much softer landing here because of devaluation propping up our exports and manufacturing vs Germany and Japan whose currencies strengthened.

 

[dalin80]

Yeah, figures wise with GDP deficits and so forth the UK looks in bad shape, but in reality with measures well under way to reduce the debt (austerity measure started over a year ago), reaffirming of AAA status and having control over its own currency the UK is on path to balance the books, it will take decades but things are at least moving. Compare this to the US where the left vs right political civil war has royally fucked chances for years or southern Europe where any cost cutting measure is met with riots.

The feeling here in the UK seems to be 'yeah times are going to get hard, oh well just have to man up and get through it'.

Things like giving so much money way abroad need to stop though, the 4 billion pound train contract going to germany at the cost of ~25,000 workers is just to much to understand at the moment. Or the massive 'charity' donations to pakistan and india. Countries with their own nuclear missiles and space programmes obviously don't need our funding.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Yeah, figures wise with GDP deficits and so forth the UK looks in bad shape, but in reality with measures well under way to reduce the debt (austerity measure started over a year ago), reaffirming of AAA status and having control over its own currency the UK is on path to balance the books, it will take decades but things are at least moving. Compare this to the US where the left vs right political civil war has royally fucked chances for years or southern Europe where any cost cutting measure is met with riots.

The feeling here in the UK seems to be 'yeah times are going to get hard, oh well just have to man up and get through it'.

Things like giving so much money way abroad need to stop though, the 4 billion pound train contract going to germany at the cost of ~25,000 workers is just to much to understand at the moment. Or the massive 'charity' donations to pakistan and india. Countries with their own nuclear missiles and space programmes obviously don't need our funding.

Yes, Dave is no Maggie. She would never have given money to countries when our own people were struggling with jobs and that train contract is absolutely insane. The difference is something like £50m, but the thought of 25k people unemployed, well it's ridiculous.

 

[Your Excellency]

Things like giving so much money way abroad need to stop though, the 4 billion pound train contract going to germany at the cost of ~25,000 workers is just to much to understand at the moment. Or the massive 'charity' donations to pakistan and india. Countries with their own nuclear missiles and space programmes obviously don't need our funding.

EU rules ensured that the government couldn't take a protectionist stance on that contract. Though the Derby Telegraph has had front pages for the last month detailing the myriad ways around it (eg Siemens has had to make various huge payouts due to corruption and this wasn't considered as a factor in the decision even though it could have been), various allegations of corruption amongst business committees at number 10 (not sure about this though).

And the charity donations are effectively anti-terror donations.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

EU rules ensured that the government couldn't take a protectionist stance on that contract. Though the Derby Telegraph has had front pages for the last month detailing the myriad ways around it (eg Siemens has had to make various huge payouts due to corruption and this wasn't considered as a factor in the decision even though it could have been), allegations of corruption amongst business committee's at number 10.

And the charity donations are effectively anti-terror donations.

Simply put. Fuck the EU. Other countries never bother, why the hell should we?

I dare anyone to go to those 25,000 newly unemployed people and say, 'yeah, it was the EU, nothing we could do', I can see shotguns and lots of running...

 

[Your Excellency]

BTW, isn't it 1400 jobs at Bombardier being lost, rather than 25,000?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

BTW, isn't it 1400 jobs at Bombardier being lost, rather than 25,000?

Support industries. Parts etc...

 

[dalin80]

BTW, isn't it 1400 jobs at Bombardier being lost, rather than 25,000?

Similar to rover when they went under, for every Longbridge worker who lost a job 5 in a support industry went.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Similar to rover when they went under, for every Longbridge worker who lost a job 5 in a support industry went.

When Rover went under, there was a good reason. They made shitty cars that no one wanted to buy. With Bomardier they are making something to specification on a fixed price contract, the government are playing with fire and destroying our manufacturing base.

The reason German companies can make stuff cheaper is because they have no minimum wage enforced by law in the country, we do. The government have depressed wages in the country to make their manufacturing more competitive than other European countries. Their boom has been paid for by unemployed people in the rest of Europe.

 

[pootle]

zomgbbqwtf, would you mind answering a couple of questions about your line of work?

What lessons did your company learn from the last big collapse? What are they doing differently now than before?

It seems to me (I know absolutely nothing about this type of thing) that nothing much has changed. If there's a rumour that the stock market looks like it might fall, PANIIIIC! PAAAAANNNIIIIIICCCCCCCCC!!!!!!! And the stock market goes down. Self fulfilling prophecy.

I mean, there must be loads of stuff learned from what happened a couple of years ago so that it won't happen again, right?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

zomgbbqwtf, would you mind answering a couple of questions about your line of work?

What lessons did your company learn from the last big collapse? What are they doing differently now than before?

It seems to me (I know absolutely nothing about this type of thing) that nothing much has changed. If there's a rumour that the stock market looks like it might fall, PANIIIIC! PAAAAANNNIIIIIICCCCCCCCC!!!!!!! And the stock market goes down. Self fulfilling prophecy.

I mean, there must be loads of stuff learned from what happened a couple of years ago so that it won't happen again, right?

No problem.

We fired pretty much the whole risk assessment division and now we have better people and rules are much stricter. Everything has to be signed off now, I can't invest millions of pounds on a whim anymore. It makes more sense.

Markets will always be like that. Nothing you can really do about it.

I think the banking and finance sector have learned a lot and the reason the UK economy is finding growth difficult to achieve is because banks are deleveraging (by order of the government) which means less money lent out for every pound they receive in savings. Long term this is good, but obviously it makes for a difficult environment to do business in if you can't get easy access to credit, but that is the new environment.

The short term for the UK is low growth, maybe 1-2% a year for 3-5 years but then much better foundations for the future as the economy moves from debt funded imports to exports.

 

[Zenith]

Anyone else notice that Nick Clegg seems to have disappeared as much as Ed Milliband did a few months ago? I think events seriously broke him and that he wouldn't be able to lead his way out of a paper bag.

 

[SteveWD40]

If they do it and get to 2% by the end of 2015, I think voters will recognise a job well done and the Conservatives and Lib Dems will be rewarded at the polls, definitely a Con majority with Labour looking at big losses. They have opposed the deficit reduction plan from the outset and have been opposing for the sake of opposing. Ed Balls today came out and said the government weren't doing anything and Dave should be doing something. That is a load of rubbish, the last thing Dave should do is rush home and call a bunch of meetings, it will spook the markets and we would be in for a world of shit. We need Dave to stay on holiday, come back when he needs to and act like nothing is wrong.

On a side note it looks like Italy are about to legislate for a balanced budget, might be enough to get some confidence back into bond markets...

Your posts are all awesome but bolded these bits for confidence and truth, confident they will hit those targets for growth (even the IMF thinks we will) and truth that DC needs to come back with a Sombrero on sipping a Mojito and say "what's all the fuss about?"

Markets are self fulfilling prophecy's.

 

[SteveWD40]

Anyone else notice that Nick Clegg seems to have disappeared as much as Ed Milliband did a few months ago? I think events seriously broke him and that he wouldn't be able to lead his way out of a paper bag.

Yeah, he talked a good game but has shown the backbone of a deep sea worm, just sits on the bench looking glum.

 

[pootle]

Thanks!

This made me happy

We fired pretty much the whole risk assessment division and now we have better people and rules are much stricter. Everything has to be signed off now, I can't invest millions of pounds on a whim anymore. It makes more sense.

Then this made me sad

Markets will always be like that. Nothing you can really do about it.

Then this made me happy again

I think the banking and finance sector have learned a lot ... Long term this is good

Then this depressed the hell out of me

The short term for the UK is low growth, maybe 1-2% a year for 3-5 years but then much better foundations for the future as the economy moves from debt funded imports to exports.

What can we export? The manufacturing base of this country is a shadow of its former self, replaced by service industries.

There don't seem to be many british companies left to expand when things get better and all the big foreign ones will be offered big incentives from other countries desperate for any new jobs to go there.

 

[Chinner]

remember that zomgb is a banker and if lots of poor people died he would not care as long as he could drive around in ferrari.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

remember that zomgb is a banker and if lots of poor people died he would not care as long as he could drive around in ferrari.

I'd eat your dogs as well. Yeah rebels!

Spoiler

I drive a Toyota Yaris now, sold the BMW, too expensive to run

 

[radioheadrule83]

Anyone else notice that Nick Clegg seems to have disappeared as much as Ed Milliband did a few months ago? I think events seriously broke him and that he wouldn't be able to lead his way out of a paper bag.

I think keeping a low profile is the savvy thing to do. Whenever a Lib Dem figure has come forward and played a public facing role in anything to do with this government they are quickly demonised and reviled through stories in the papers. Clegg himself, Vince Cable, Danny Alexander etc. If I were advising him, I'd say "do exactly what you're doing, and don't come forward in a public way until you've got something positive to crow about - a policy or concession or what have you -- or until you've got something you're allowed to disagree with the conservatives on, that the public also disagree with them on. Or something that you passionately believe in".

Because putting his head in the public shooting gallery when we're basically riding out the consequences of broadly Conservative led policy is a bad idea, frankly.

 

[Parl]

What can we export? The manufacturing base of this country is a shadow of its former self, replaced by service industries.

Service exports are big business for the UK. How long until we balance our trade?

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Interestingly, BAE Systems is Britain's biggest exporter (or at least is one of them), and US Defence spending goods could hit them, and thus the British economy, quite hard.

 

[dalin80]

Service exports are big business for the UK. How long until we balance our trade?

I think that depends more on the spanish and american economies. If they drop us into another recession then it will be a long time.

 

[pootle]

Service exports are big business for the UK. How long until we balance our trade?

Surely we can't export IT and financial expertise etc for ever though.

And we're never going to balance our trade if we can't increase our exports. So when the world economy drags itself back onto its feet, we need somebody to invest big time in uk manufacturing.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

What can we export? The manufacturing base of this country is a shadow of its former self, replaced by service industries.

There don't seem to be many british companies left to expand when things get better and all the big foreign ones will be offered big incentives from other countries desperate for any new jobs to go there.

Like it or not our exports are highly dependent on financial services, the banking industry accounted for 8-10% of our economy pre crash and about 7% atm. The industry still pays around £50bn a year in payroll and corporation taxes, which will increase as DTAs expire are profitability returns.

Also, our manufacturing sector isn't doing too badly, the biggest issue is the gate price which has been increasing at a record pace because of the weakened currency. Even so, the sector is still growing and creating jobs (though at a slower rate than previously hoped).

Strangely enough, by looking at the facts our manufacturing sector actually grew under Thatcher and Major by around 15% in absolute terms. The reason people say Thatcher ruined manufacturing is because output as a proportion of GDP fell, but that was down to the success of other parts of fiscal policy. Under the most recent Labour government manufacturing output fell by around 25% and accounted for even less as a proportion of our GPD than ever.

Even so, just because you can't buy British products in a store, it doesn't mean they aren't produced. The UK is still second in the world when it comes to industrial goods production after the USA, and 8th in the world in consumer good production, but China and the USA account for such a large proportion of consumer goods production even being 8th on the list means our output is pretty small. This is why tax cuts to get the consumer market moving is pointless as the money lost from those tax cuts drain away to other countries. Like the cash for bangers scheme in 2009, most of that money ended up in Germany and Japan, the countries which still produce cars and have massive auto companies.

 

[Your Excellency]

Zomg, do you think we should abolish the minimum wage here in order to bring in more industry growth?

 

[travisbickle]

Like it or not our exports are highly dependent on financial services, the banking industry accounted for 8-10% of our economy pre crash and about 7% atm. The industry still pays around £50bn a year in payroll and corporation taxes, which will increase as DTAs expire are profitability returns.

But the financial industry employs fuck-all people when you look at the amount it makes, the money is distributed in a small area of the country, the South East, and when things go tits up it puts our country into massive debt that it is then unwilling to help rectify.

 

[pootle]

Like the cash for bangers scheme in 2009, most of that money ended up in Germany and Japan, the countries which still produce cars and have massive auto companies.

That's the point I was trying to make, admittedly very poorly.

As examples, the UK makes lots of Nissans and plenty of engines for BMW but there's no way we can rely on them to keep increasing production here. As global corporations if they get a better deal anywhere else, off they go.

And as you say in any case the profits won't end up here.

Also, the reason people say Thatcher ruined manufacturing is because her government took the political decision to delete nationalised and state supported jobs. While many of those jobs weren't going to be sustainable long term there was no plan to ease the transition, no guidance or meaningful help. What happened was that the main employers in towns and cities were removed, leaving wastelands of unemployment, crime and hopelessness where before there had been jobs.

The same thing is still happening of course, but it's being done to one area at a time by individual companies for financial reasons rather than countrywide for political ones.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Zomg, do you think we should abolish the minimum wage here in order to bring in more industry growth?

No way. The minimum wage protects vulnerable employees in low paid jobs from sharks. I would be in favour of freezing it for a couple of years, but never to get rid of it.

But the financial industry employs fuck-all people when you look at the amount it makes, the money is distributed in a small area of the country, the South East, and when things go tits up it puts our country into massive debt that it is then unwilling to help rectify.

I don't see how that makes any difference to how much the sector gives over in taxes. Also, you have to understand that London and the south east have cultivated a culture and the surroundings for people who work in the sector. Bankers want to live in London, that's why the industry stays in London.

The country is in massive debt because the government has been spending money it didn't have since 2001. The reason for our deficit in the UK is £30-40bn deficits in boom times, it is fiscal suicide to spend more money than you take in taxes during a boom on the premise that the boom will never end (end to boom and bust said Brown). Now we are reaping the 'rewards' of that fiscal ignorance. Countries that saved in the good times, ran a surplus are safe from all of this. Look at Canada, Australia or Sweden. That is where we would if Labour/Brown had run a a balanced budget instead of growing public spending faster than the economy.

Anyway, I don't see what the banking industry can do beyond what is already happening. They are deleveraging because they have been ordered to by the government (Labour and Con) despite what the Treasury say, I have seen memos telling banks to hold more capital.

That's the point I was trying to make, admittedly very poorly.

As examples, the UK makes lots of Nissans and plenty of engines for BMW but there's no way we can rely on them to keep increasing production here. As global corporations if they get a better deal anywhere else, off they go.

And as you say in any case the profits won't end up here.

Also, the reason people say Thatcher ruined manufacturing is because her government took the political decision to delete nationalised and state supported jobs. While many of those jobs weren't going to be sustainable long term there was no plan to ease the transition, no guidance or meaningful help. What happened was that the main employers in towns and cities were removed, leaving wastelands of unemployment, crime and hopelessness where before there had been jobs.

The same thing is still happening of course, but it's being done to one area at a time by individual companies for financial reasons rather than countrywide for political ones.

Yes, we need homegrown manufacturing. We need incentives from the government for companies to start businesses and to encourage the people to buy British. Now that we have somewhat secure oil supplies for the next 20-30 years from the new Falklands shelf it is imperative we don't waste this opportunities.

I agree about Thatcher, but the UK was going bankrupt. Her legacy of privatisation has lead to globally powerful companies like BG Group, but also to foreign takeovers of infrastructure. It's difficult to say whether this is a net positive or negative...

 

[Meadows]

I still firmly believe that the interests of big business aren't the interests of the UK people. I've changed my tone a little over the last few months and I have a good deal of faith in our political system (thank God we're not in the US), and believe that higher taxation in return for higher public sector job numbers/output is the long term solution for the UK.

However, in the short term I believe cutting expenditure and keeping tax rates the same is probably for the best. A lot of people need a good dose of reality, but don't need money taking out of their pockets to be spent on local businesses.

I think the UK needs a big localism campaign, something I know the hippy Greens are big on. But buying Welsh lamb as opposed to NZ lamb for example just seems like common sense. It helps our economy without having to raise taxes too much.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I still firmly believe that the interests of big business aren't the interests of the UK people. I've changed my tone a little over the last few months and I have a good deal of faith in our political system (thank God we're not in the US), and believe that higher taxation in return for higher public sector job numbers/output is the long term solution for the UK.

However, in the short term I believe cutting expenditure and keeping tax rates the same is probably for the best. A lot of people need a good dose of reality, but don't need money taking out of their pockets to be spent on local businesses.

I think the UK needs a big localism campaign, something I know the hippy Greens are big on. But buying Welsh lamb as opposed to NZ lamb for example just seems like common sense. It helps our economy without having to raise taxes too much.

Higher taxes in return for higher public sector employment is a very bad idea. The reason we are in this situation is because public spending grew faster than the economy. We need to make it easier for people to start small businesses and provide local services. Our salvation is self-employment and self-responsibility.

The more you increase taxation, the more you drive business towards our eastern competitors which will reduce net taxation. Take a look at the Laffer curve for corporate taxation.

 

[Meadows]

Higher taxes in return for higher public sector employment is a very bad idea. The reason we are in this situation is because public spending grew faster than the economy. We need to make it easier for people to start small businesses and provide local services. Our salvation is self-employment and self-responsibility.

The more you increase taxation, the more you drive business towards our eastern competitors which will reduce net taxation. Take a look at the Laffer curve for corporate taxation.

I'd like people to take a new attitude towards public sector employment, for it not to be considered somewhere you can be lazy because there is no profit motivation.

It sounds like you and me fundamentally agree but that you perhaps misunderstood me.

I said that I wanted to have higher taxes in step with expenditure, basically ensuring there is a very manageable deficit, one that we can expand into slightly if need be.

Fact is, and you agree with me here, small businesses are great. They're ran by people, people who understand risk, who pay tax because they have morals and who employ people because they want to help the community. Corporations on the other hand lack personality, and it is because this lack of personality exists, that they will up and leave a country if corporation tax is increased or any unfavourable laws are put in place.

To be honest I've gotten to a point with corporations saying that they'll leave to eastern markets that I'd be willing to tell them to fuck off. The UK is a great market, if they leave, someone who is willing to pay higher taxation will take their place.

 

[Empty]

Fact is, and you agree with me here, small businesses are great. They're ran by people, people who understand risk, who pay tax because they have morals and who employ people because they want to help the community. Corporations on the other hand lack personality, and it is because this lack of personality exists, that they will up and leave a country if corporation tax is increased or any unfavourable laws are put in place.

To be honest I've gotten to a point with corporations saying that they'll leave to eastern markets that I'd be willing to tell them to fuck off. The UK is a great market, if they leave, someone who is willing to pay higher taxation will take their place.

here's a good article about small businesses in norway, and how the state encourages entrepreneurial activity there in a high tax area, that might interest you

http://www.inc.com/magazine/20110201/in-norway-start-ups-say-ja-to-socialism.html

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I'd like people to take a new attitude towards public sector employment, for it not to be considered somewhere you can be lazy because there is no profit motivation.

It sounds like you and me fundamentally agree but that you perhaps misunderstood me.

I said that I wanted to have higher taxes in step with expenditure, basically ensuring there is a very manageable deficit, one that we can expand into slightly if need be.

Fact is, and you agree with me here, small businesses are great. They're ran by people, people who understand risk, who pay tax because they have morals and who employ people because they want to help the community. Corporations on the other hand lack personality, and it is because this lack of personality exists, that they will up and leave a country if corporation tax is increased or any unfavourable laws are put in place.

To be honest I've gotten to a point with corporations saying that they'll leave to eastern markets that I'd be willing to tell them to fuck off. The UK is a great market, if they leave, someone who is willing to pay higher taxation will take their place.

I think the public sector should be there to provide essential services like education, health, transport etc... It should not be there as an employer of last resort. That is a waste of people's tax money and provides poor value for money for said taxpayers.

It's not the corporations running away that I have a problem with, fact is they won't. The UK is a big enough market that companies will do business there. It's small business I worry about, people who want to take risks usually want to be rewarded. The guys who create the jobs and make the moves that other people are unwilling or unable to do are highly prized by all governments, the UK can't afford to chase them away with 50% tax rates and such.

All in all, I would like to see the government introduce measures for small business to expand and people willing to take risks be supported by the government. We need someone to champion entrepreneurial spirit and create the jobs that the country needs. That means lower taxes for small business and lower personal taxation.

 

[Meadows]

I think the public sector should be there to provide essential services like education, health, transport etc... It should not be there as an employer of last resort. That is a waste of people's tax money and provides poor value for money for said taxpayers.

It's not the corporations running away that I have a problem with, fact is they won't. The UK is a big enough market that companies will do business there. It's small business I worry about, people who want to take risks usually want to be rewarded. The guys who create the jobs and make the moves that other people are unwilling or unable to do are highly prized by all governments, the UK can't afford to chase them away with 50% tax rates and such.

All in all, I would like to see the government introduce measures for small business to expand and people willing to take risks be supported by the government. We need someone to champion entrepreneurial spirit and create the jobs that the country needs. That means lower taxes for small business and lower personal taxation.

On the first point, I agree, we shouldn't be employing people to public sector jobs as a last resort, hence why I said that there should be a new attitude to public sector employment.

I believe that we should start taxing corporations more, and small businesses less. The distinction between what is a small business and a corporation is something that is pretty hard to define though so I can see why that would cause trouble. If we could chase away multi-national corporations that evade taxes and cut jobs to save bonuses in favour of entrepreneurial enterprises then that would be my ideal.

However, I believe, like you, that there isn't enough entrepreneurial spirit in this country, people just don't have the appetite to open up a place on their own because of the hard work and high risk involved. The question of how to increase this spirit is one that I cannot answer.