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[Kerotan]

The only thing that I can think of when it comes to CDKEYS is that I purchased God of War Ragnarok from them and played it but it must've been a UK/EU key code because if I looked at the PSN store for my region it would always show the price and not show up as purchased like they usually do.
But the game allowed me to access the Valhalla DLC and play it and also any updates.
This is the link to what I purchased: https://www.cdkeys.com/god-of-war-ragnarok-ps5-eu

Only seeing this now. I'm assuming this Ragnarok key was originally created for a console bundle. Is it possible someone stole the key code and resold it through CDKEYS and then someone reported it not working. Sony would have seen you activated it.

Another possibility someone sold their key through them and then later reported it stolen so they could use it for themselves or maybe even resell again. Scumbags have so many tricks there's probably other scenarios.

 

[Kerotan]

You don't have to know any of that. They don't steal it. It's just regional differences.

A regional code is tied to that region. I can't buy a $100 USA PSN code for €85 and then use it on my EU account.

 

[Grizzled Ghost]

A regional code is tied to that region. I can't buy a $100 USA PSN code for €85 and then use it on my EU account.

Don't know about Sony, but most Steam game codes they sell on those sites are global or "rest of world", and almost certainly bought in a region with cheap pricing.

 

[rofif]

A regional code is tied to that region. I can't buy a $100 USA PSN code for €85 and then use it on my EU account.

Idk. Cdkeys is legit though.
For sure idgaf as a customer and banning for that is insane. These are all still Sony codes. I don't have to be detective poirot before I buy something

 

[Kerotan]

Don't know about Sony, but most Steam game codes they sell on those sites are global or "rest of world", and almost certainly bought in a region with cheap pricing.

Yeah doesn't work like that with Sony.

Idk. Cdkeys is legit though.
For sure idgaf as a customer and banning for that is insane. These are all still Sony codes. I don't have to be detective poirot before I buy something

Do you not understand the concept of what I'm saying. Just because Sony created the code, if the money they received to generate it gets retracted you've got a major fucking problem on your hands after redeeming it.

And don't suggest Sony suck it up because the issue increases exponentially for Sony once they let it slide.

Where I 100% side with F Forth here is Sony should provide the exact reason for a permanent ban. Especially for a long, loyal and lucrative customer that he was.

 

[Forth]

Only seeing this now. I'm assuming this Ragnarok key was originally created for a console bundle. Is it possible someone stole the key code and resold it through CDKEYS and then someone reported it not working. Sony would have seen you activated it.

Another possibility someone sold their key through them and then later reported it stolen so they could use it for themselves or maybe even resell again. Scumbags have so many tricks there's probably other scenarios.

This is what I'm thinking to be honest but why not just revoke the key and give me the opportunity to resolve it.
I could provide evidence that I'd purchased the key in good faith, return the key to the original owner or back into the system to be reused and then I'll purchase the game from their own digital store.
Or maybe they don't have this system built into PSN's backend so it's permanent suspension for anyone affected with no explanations.

 

[Peroroncino]

There's no way the ban is for some code, for them to ban such a long standing account for a potential monetary retraction where they know it might not have been the user themselves seems retarded (they have dedicated fraud prevention team and know exactly how the scam works). For chargebacks for example, Sony will ban you, but offer a way to settle it if you reach out, no way this would magically work different for a code. If that were a thing we'd have a lot more similar stories, considering how popular those resellers are and how much of their stock is supplied with stolen CCs.

F Forth have you sent that DSAR request? If so, they'll be sure to respond to you in the designated time-frame, in case you don't learn the reason there, means they shafted you on the data - you'll need to try following-up with them saying that it's not all information they collected, as they've had to perform some check/review first before they decided to block you. They still might tell you to fuck off, and nothing but court case is gonna open that information.

Why wouldn't they wanna tell you? That's actually standard practice in a lot of industries where you employ fraud prevention - main idea behind it, if you ban/close acc for fraud, why the hell would you tell someone exactly where they slipped up? They're never gonna budge on that, unless ordered otherwise. Many companies have in their T&Cs that they can ban/close/refuse you without giving a reason or some vague paragraph about how you've been a bad boy and that's it.

One thing I can say from experience, whenever I worked anti-fraud (in a few companies, never at sony), I've never been a party to closing an account without some solid proof beforehand, teams like that usually have pretty good tools/procedures and clear guidelines, I doubt things are different at playstation.

 

[rofif]

This is what I'm thinking to be honest but why not just revoke the key and give me the opportunity to resolve it.
I could provide evidence that I'd purchased the key in good faith, return the key to the original owner or back into the system to be reused and then I'll purchase the game from their own digital store.
Or maybe they don't have this system built into PSN's backend so it's permanent suspension for anyone affected with no explanations.

You bought everything legit. You are not the one who stole the key or anything.
It's not your responsibility

 

[Forth]

There's no way the ban is for some code, for them to ban such a long standing account for a potential monetary retraction where they know it might not have been the user themselves seems retarded (they have dedicated fraud prevention team and know exactly how the scam works). For chargebacks for example, Sony will ban you, but offer a way to settle it if you reach out, no way this would magically work different for a code. If that were a thing we'd have a lot more similar stories, considering how popular those resellers are and how much of their stock is supplied with stolen CCs.

F Forth have you sent that DSAR request? If so, they'll be sure to respond to you in the designated time-frame, in case you don't learn the reason there, means they shafted you on the data - you'll need to try following-up with them saying that it's not all information they collected, as they've had to perform some check/review first before they decided to block you. They still might tell you to fuck off, and nothing but court case is gonna open that information.

Why wouldn't they wanna tell you? That's actually standard practice in a lot of industries where you employ fraud prevention - main idea behind it, if you ban/close acc for fraud, why the hell would you tell someone exactly where they slipped up? They're never gonna budge on that, unless ordered otherwise. Many companies have in their T&Cs that they can ban/close/refuse you without giving a reason or some vague paragraph about how you've been a bad boy and that's it.

One thing I can say from experience, whenever I worked anti-fraud (in a few companies, never at sony), I've never been a party to closing an account without some solid proof beforehand, teams like that usually have pretty good tools/procedures and clear guidelines, I doubt things are different at playstation.

Yes, I've applied for a SAR/GDPR request to their Data Protection Officer and I'm hopeful that I'll receive the information that was instrumental in this ban being applied.
And I also agree that I'm sure they employ a very competent and experienced fraud prevention team but I'm absolutely bamboozled at what information has flagged their decision and what that could be, I really am.
I'm extremely careful with how I treat my online activity and data and take as many security precautions and concerns that every company offers to all of my online accounts.
I'm also extremely careful with how I treat any online payments and where I enter my credit card information.
I've also never used a second hand console that might be at risk of being stolen or banned and I've never shared my account with anyone or any other console, I've always been the primary user.
I've never attempted to even try and alter anything on the console that would be considered modding the hardware and OS software.
I've also never used any VPN software to access the PSN and the only software I use to help secure my online activity is iCloud Relay on my iPhone.

 

[GHG]

I agree, if CDKEYS are selling dodgy keys then why are Sony allowing it.
Personally I don't think the fraud charge is linked to a stolen PSN Wallet top-up code.
I've used the same systems to top up my Apple and Microsoft accounts and never once been flagged and these account are both more than twenty years old too.
I just wish they would elaborate more on what part of their term and conditions I breached.

Because they have no control over that.

It goes like this:

• Criminal scum purchases a bunch of wallet keys from a legitimate source (such as Amazon) using a stolen credit card or laundered money (this is a method of cleaning said laundered money).
• They then shop those wallet keys around at discounted bulk rates (because they don't need to make a profit margin over the price they purchased them for from the legitimate source)
• They find a buyer such as CDkeys who is willing to purchase them for a price less than what they plan to sell them for (for example, CDKeys might offer to buy $20 wallet codes at a rate of $17 a pop with the intention of selling them for $19 each)
• The criminal is now clear to ride off in to the sunset with their free/cleaned money
• However at this point the credit card issuer will also report the card stolen and issue chargebacks for all the fraudulent transactions
• In this example amazon would report these chargebacks to Sony (or whoever else these keys originated from) who will then mark all of those codes as stolen
• The stolen codes usually get cancelled as soon as they can but if a code that has been marked as stolen has already been redeemed against an account then that account will get flagged and disciplined for fraud.

Sites like CDKeys are key reseller websites and will get their keys from a variety of sources. While I'm sure they will have a process for vetting whereever/whoever they are getting their keys from, some of those keys will unfortunately have been originally obtained via fruadulent/illegal means.

 

[Forth]

Because they have no control over that.

It goes like this:

• Criminal scum purchases a bunch of wallet keys from a legitimate source (such as Amazon) using a stolen credit card or laundered money (this is a method of cleaning said laundered money).
• They then shop those wallet keys around at discounted bulk rates (because they don't need to make a profit margin over the price they purchased them for from the legitimate source)
• They find a buyer such as CDkeys who is willing to purchase them for a price less than what they plan to sell them for (for example, CDKeys might offer to buy $20 wallet codes at a rate of $17 a pop with the intention of selling them for $19 each)
• The criminal is now clear to ride off in to the sunset with their free/cleaned money
• However at this point the credit card issuer will also report the card stolen and issue chargebacks for all the fraudulent transactions
• In this example amazon would report these chargebacks to Sony (or whoever else these keys originated from) who will then mark all of those codes as stolen
• The stolen codes usually get cancelled as soon as they can but if a code that has been marked as stolen has already been redeemed against an account then that account will get flagged and disciplined for fraud.

Sites like CDKeys are key reseller websites and will get their keys from a variety of sources. While I'm sure they will have a process for vetting whereever/whoever they are getting their keys from, some of those keys will unfortunately have been originally obtained via fruadulent/illegal means.

Thanking for that breakdown and I know it all makes perfect sense.
Why doesn't Sony issue warnings on their blogs, social media and websites making users aware of the pitfalls of buying from these sites?
If this was happening more often then why do we not hear more of it?

 

[Kerotan]

Thanking for that breakdown and I know it all makes perfect sense.
Why doesn't Sony issue warnings on their blogs, social media and websites making users aware of the pitfalls of buying from these sites?
If this was happening more often then why do we not hear more of it?

Sony don't intend to give these guy's free advertising especially when you Google them the vast majority of people will say they've had no issues with them. So more Will be tempted to take the risk. And if you're one of those players who just buys cod and FIFA annually you won't care if you get banned and have to setup a new account. Not everyone is a trophy hunter or buys hundreds of games.

 

[th4tguy]

I promise that I will keep you all updated with as much information as I get it, I sincerely don't want to see this happening to anyone here.
Once I find out the cause I really hope that you all spread the message because it's really brought to light personally that digital ownership doesn't exist.
When you purchase something from a digital storefront, unless you're able to downsize the entire file to a personal drive and transfer it to any other device for use then who really don't own it.

Get the requested data and hope that it gives you the answers that Sony reps refuse/ can't share.
Specifically being told it was fraud but not being allowed to settle any debt to reinstate the account does remove the chargeback as a possibility.
I would also think that this removes the possibility that they suspected you of bad social conduct or cheating as that isn't fraud.

I think your guess about cdkeys is correct.
If they saw that many of the purchases that were being added to your account were reported/ seen as stolen, then they would take action.

If you can get confirmation of this and Sony refuses to do anything to reverse it, I'd go to cdkeys with a complaint

 

[Forth]

Get the requested data and hope that it gives you the answers that Sony reps refuse/ can't share.
Specifically being told it was fraud but not being allowed to settle any debt to reinstate the account does remove the chargeback as a possibility.
I would also think that this removes the possibility that they suspected you of bad social conduct or cheating as that isn't fraud.

I think your guess about cdkeys is correct.
If they saw that many of the purchases that were being added to your account were reported/ seen as stolen, then they would take action.

If you can get confirmation of this and Sony refuses to do anything to reverse it, I'd go to cdkeys with a complaint

Thanks, the online game I played was Destiny 2 and I don't use voice or messaging chat to communicate.
It will be interesting to see what CDKEYS say, hopefully Sony can give me the actual transactions that flagged my account for fraud.

 

[STARSBarry]

Not Sony but Twitch



But given the similair style of "we won't respond or give any information on the ban and we will never overturn it"

Only for them to immediately overturn it once the SAR hit them and their forced to give the information and justification, its pretty funny.

Hopefully something like this happens for you.

 

[GHG]

Thanking for that breakdown and I know it all makes perfect sense.
Why doesn't Sony issue warnings on their blogs, social media and websites making users aware of the pitfalls of buying from these sites?
If this was happening more often then why do we not hear more of it?

These sorts of things are usually covered in EULAs so they won't issue any "warnings" as such (no storefronts/platforms do for this), they will simply enforce it where necessary.

Like I explained earlier in the thread, on Steam if its a game code the game gets revoked from your library, if its a wallet code it's a trading and marketplace ban along with the amount being deducted from your account.

Playstation/Xbox/Nintendo take far more heavy handed approaches though and will just ban your entire account outright for "fraud".

Thanks, the online game I played was Destiny 2 and I don't use voice or messaging chat to communicate.
It will be interesting to see what CDKEYS say, hopefully Sony can give me the actual transactions that flagged my account for fraud.

Unless you can pinpoint the exact code(s) that caused this then CDKeys won't be able to help you much, especially if you frequently used them to purchase wallet codes.

 

[Forth]

These sorts of things are usually covered in EULAs so they won't issue any "warnings" as such (no storefronts/platforms do for this), they will simply enforce it where necessary.

Like I explained earlier in the thread, on Steam if its a game code the game gets revoked from your library, if its a wallet code it's a trading and marketplace ban along with the amount being deducted from your account.

Playstation/Xbox/Nintendo take far more heavy handed approaches though and will just ban your entire account outright for "fraud".



Unless you can pinpoint the exact code(s) that caused this then CDKeys won't be able to help you much, especially if you frequently used them to purchase wallet codes.

I'm hoping that Sony will be able to give me the code or codes that actually did flag the fraud ban.
Surely they have that information?

 

[GHG]

Im hoping that Sony will be able to give me the code or codes that did flag the fraud ban.
Surely they have that information?

Yes, they should and there's no reason why they shouldn't give it to you.

 

[Forth]

Yes, they should and there's no reason why they shouldn't give it to you.

That would be a great help in myself then taking it up with CDKEYS.
I could track down my debit card transaction that purchased that code and would give me a reason to go down the legal route.
I always put the top-up keys through my PSN account on the website once I received them from CDKEYS, I never hung onto them for any longer than a day.

 

[Forth]

Apologies to go off-topic but I have a Switch 2 Mario-Kart edition console pre-order for launch day in a local UK retailer.
If I do manage to get my PSN account back I'll be going back to PlayStation and buying a PS5 Pro.
So if anyone was interested in my Switch 2 pre-order I'd be more than happy to collect it and ship it out to anyone interested. I could sell it through eBay and will only be looking the price I would pay for it.

 

[Kerotan]

These sorts of things are usually covered in EULAs so they won't issue any "warnings" as such (no storefronts/platforms do for this), they will simply enforce it where necessary.

Like I explained earlier in the thread, on Steam if its a game code the game gets revoked from your library, if its a wallet code it's a trading and marketplace ban along with the amount being deducted from your account.

Playstation/Xbox/Nintendo take far more heavy handed approaches though and will just ban your entire account outright for "fraud".



Unless you can pinpoint the exact code(s) that caused this then CDKeys won't be able to help you much, especially if you frequently used them to purchase wallet codes.

I'm guessing Steam take a lighter approach because buying these codes on STEAM is huge so they'd lose a lot more customers.

 

[calistan]

I'm guessing Steam take a lighter approach because buying these codes on STEAM is huge so they'd lose a lot more customers.

Probably because Steam has actual competition, and banning customers from its platform would only usher people towards rival stores or the high seas.

 

[Miles708]

"Yeah the TV you bought from us was actually part of some sort of external credit card fraud we can't control and you can't know about so we're taking back your entire home".

 

[Kerotan]

Probably because Steam has actual competition, and banning customers from its platform would only usher people towards rival stores or the high seas.

The equivalent competition for PSN is Xbox Store or Nintendo store but Xbox being the direct competitor.

 

[calistan]

The equivalent competition for PSN is Xbox Store or Nintendo store but Xbox being the direct competitor.

I mean that if one of those companies bans you, you're done and your console is useless, whereas if you're banned from Steam you can still get PC games from EA, Epic, GoG, Microsoft, Ubisoft, etc.

 

[Kerotan]

I mean that if one of those companies bans you, you're done and your console is useless, whereas if you're banned from Steam you can still get PC games from EA, Epic, GoG, Microsoft, Ubisoft, etc.

Yeah but you can't play games from them through steam anymore.

 

[calistan]

Yeah but you can't play games from them through steam anymore.

Sure, but the point is that Steam doesn't really ban people. If it had a reputation for locking people out of their entire libraries and refusing to explain why, then customers would think twice before buying there. Steam is successful in a competitive market because it's seen as trustworthy and pro-consumer.

For consoles, though, you have no alternative. If you want to play on Playstation, you do it on Sony's terms, and this isn't the first time I've heard of them banning somebody.

 

[Kerotan]

Sure, but the point is that Steam doesn't really ban people. If it had a reputation for locking people out of their entire libraries and refusing to explain why, then customers would think twice before buying there. Steam is successful in a competitive market because it's seen as trustworthy and pro-consumer.

For consoles, though, you have no alternative. If you want to play on Playstation, you do it on Sony's terms, and this isn't the first time I've heard of them banning somebody.

I'm Happy with Sony's terms though. I don't want a marketplace where criminals can launder money through it. Now obviously that does happen but it's against TOS.

 

[ReBurn]

I've never understood where some of these savings come from. Like, how come a top-up card that costs 50 quid from a normal shop or direct from the manufacturer can be 45 quid from some random bloke online.

On PC it's a bit easier to see where the cheap game keys came from. Like, if a game is in the Humble Bundle it's going to be resold for pennies for the next few weeks. Top-up cards are almost equivalent to cash though.

To get the savings they probably buy store credit at reduced prices from people who receive gift cards or digital codes they don't want and want to flip them for some cash to use elsewhere. In doing so they probably also occasionally buy digital codes from people who purchase them with a credit card from some place like Amazon and then do a chargeback after selling the code. The key sites have no way to really know when the chargeback happens, and Sony has no way to know they flowed through a key site. All they know is that Amazon or wherever hit them with the chargeback on a specific code that was issued and Sony bans the account that used the code for fraud.

Getting a deal on store credit is risky if you don't know where that credit originated from. I would be surprised if it starts at the key site unless they're just eating cost to gain traffic.

 

[Forth]

To get the savings they probably buy store credit at reduced prices from people who receive gift cards or digital codes they don't want and want to flip them for some cash to use elsewhere. In doing so they probably also occasionally buy digital codes from people who purchase them with a credit card from some place like Amazon and then do a chargeback after selling the code. The key sites have no way to really know when the chargeback happens, and Sony has no way to know they flowed through a key site. All they know is that Amazon or wherever hit them with the chargeback on a specific code that was issued and Sony bans the account that used the code for fraud.

Getting a deal on store credit is risky if you don't know where that credit originated from. I would be surprised if it starts at the key site unless they're just eating cost to gain traffic.

The more I read this the more I think this is what has happened.
They probably don't see a chargeback on a redeemed top-up code the same as a chargeback on a credit/debit card purchase from the store.
It's a shame because if I was suspended on a chargeback straight away when using a top-up code then I could far easily track it back to the key seller such as CDKEYS and hopefully regain accesses to my account by swallowing the cost myself and never using that key seller again and also making other members aware of what has happened.
If CDKEYS are guilty in these situations you would think it would be all over gaming forums, websites and social media.
There's something extremely fishy going on here.

 

[Gamerfan81]

After reading through most of this thread, I'm glad I'm pretty much done with Consoles except for the Switch and that's because my kids love it. Even then, the games I buy are almost all physical except for a few games.

PC bros are in a good place with digital because of so many alternatives and competitive stores besides Steam.

I have no doubt if Steam was the only competition it might act draconian like the consoles. Since they have almost a complete monopoly.
This is why competition is always good.

 

[Signalis]

To be honest, OP is starting to seem a bit suspicious, especially his lack of effort to try and get this sorted out. I don't think Sony will be quick to ban an account that is around this long for no reason. From what I've learned online, there's always more to the story than being told

 

[Forth]

To be honest, OP is starting to seem a bit suspicious, especially his lack of effort to try and get this sorted out. I don't think Sony will be quick to ban an account that is around this long for no reason. From what I've learned online, there's always more to the story than being told

I do appreciate your cynicism because that's exactly how I would feel too and you've no reason not to.
When you approach most situations with suspicion then you're never disappointed when it turns out that you were right to be suspicious.
If and when I get more information then I will share it.
I only started the thread in the hopes of maybe finding another way around this and a different perspective of how to get more information from SCEE on this but I've gotten advice from every post and I'm determined to get to the bottom of this as I ad honestly just about to give up on it and walk away but this thread has made me determined to get a result on what the fraudulent charge/ban really means.

 

[Forth]

I've sent emails asking for more help and clarification to: siee.dpo@sony.com, help@uk.playstation.com, SIEE_European_Customer_Service@scee.net, playstation.support@sony.com, and mark_bowles@scee.net.
I've also sent a letter to Munesh Mahtani who is one of the board of directors, I had gotten his information from this website: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03277793/officers
I also sent a letter to Mark Bowles who is general manager, Northern Europe and territory lead, UK Ireland at PlayStation.
I've also asked for a SAR/GDPR request from their Data Protection Officer and also from our Information Commissioner Office.
I've also contacted BBC Watchdog and Eurogamer.
Not one single reply apart from this badly written response from: playstation.support@sony.com

 

[kremit]

I do appreciate your cynicism because that's exactly how I would feel too and you've no reason not to.
When you approach most situations with suspicion then you're never disappointed when it turns out that you were right to be suspicious.
If and when I get more information then I will share it.
I only started the thread in the hopes of maybe finding another way around this and a different perspective of how to get more information from SCEE on this but I've gotten advice from every post and I'm determined to get to the bottom of this as I as honestly just about to give up on it and walk away.

The problem is this is now going for a long time , on a forum frequented by journalists and people who are from Sony, and yet nothing has come out of this aside from speculation.

In most other cases of stuff like this, someone will step in and resolve the issue after one or two weeks (maybe <2 months if they are covering there ears) but not this long over something explained by a fraudulent CD key.

At this point they are sure you have done something bad intentionally, because otherwise they would be worried about this ballooning and would have likely given you your account back out of fear of legal action

 

[Forth]

The problem is this is now going for a long time , on a forum frequented by journalists and people who are from Sony, and yet nothing has come out of this aside from speculation.

In most other cases of stuff like this, someone will step in and resolve the issue after one or two weeks (maybe <2 months if they are covering there ears) but not this long over something explained by a fraudulent CD key.

At this point they are sure you have done something bad intentionally, because otherwise they would be worried about this ballooning and would have likely given you your account back out of fear of legal action

Getting the account back is not my overall intention, it's finding out what I've done that triggered a fraudulent ban.
I want to learn from this situation so it never happens again.
All of these companies whether they're competitors or not obviously share information. I don't want this suspicion or intention of fraud sitting on my online profile. I basically don't want this biting me back further down the road.
I also don't want it linked to my postcode because I honestly don't know how much it affects me behind the scenes.
I've basically been accused and charged with fraud by Sony Computer Entertainment and I honestly have no idea what that fraud charge is or means.
If you're correct and people are reading my plights then please get in touch with me and let us talk about this, I'm an extremely reasonable, respectful and responsible human being and I promise that any information given my way will not go any further than any private conversation we have.
I will not be recording any information given and I will happily admit if I've committed the crime but I simply won't if I feel I've done nothing wrong and have been accused of fraud when I did not do anything.
When I try to sign in to my PSN account I get this message stating that I received an email but I never received that email, it's that particular email that goes into more information about the permanent suspension. Why can't they just resend that particular email?

 

[Redneckerz]

How in God's Fuck is this thread still happening.
Good lord if i could just remember that one contact that solved similar scenario's in the past. I am well aware of these ''Sony PS4 got duped'' stuff, Reddit had some huge ass superthread on how to deal with it and it worked every single time.

This is what i get as possible variables:

• CDKEYS. You mentioned using that for the deals it gives you. Could that have triggered anything.
• The Concord beta code give out. This is the one i suspect most because that's a Sony premium game. Could it be that someone misused this/phished this using your codes and used your IP for it?
• The mail where you had to reset your password and F Forth accidentially mistyping it

I fully back the OP but as this is GAF i also fully entertain the notion that OP is missing a key crucial detail out (and perhaps a detail the OP doesn't think is crucial). I also refuse to believe the idea that a company suspends someone fully without given reason. Because that's straight up illegal. So, there must be more.

It also reminds me of this: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/repo...s-are-being-reverted-and-bans-lifted.1664275/

Well this really sucks. And this is the reason why a lot of people are afraid of an all digital future where servers get shut down or they ban you for whatever arbitrary reason and don't give you a refund or explanation.

Ofcourse all the pro-digitals call out this kind of thing because bro, being digital only is so easy these days and besides, anything physical is a license and still needs Day 1 downloads.

It is damning that we as a consuming industry have accepted these practices because we want to play the next game even before the first one has finished developing.

There is always a high probability that OP is leaving SOME information out, just like the last guy who posted something like this and it turned out they were sharing their account with like 6 people or something like that iirc.

I keep this in mind also. And this isn't victim blaming OP or even gaslighting them, just keeping in mind that, intentionally or not, OP may not share all the details. Its perfectly normal for people to say they explained themselves fully, only for you to find out (after a thorough investigation) that they left key elements out. When confronted by it, they would say ''I thought this wasn't important'' or ''I assumed this was known'' or things like that.

This kind of thing happens at my work (hospital) all the time. People, intentionally or not, have a very haphazard memory of things and what they consider important. But what they consider important details might be useless to someone else, and vice versa.

Ideally, OP should write out every step done with every detail written out, no cutsies. Because only then you can gauge something. Either that, or directly looking in their details. Because i am fairly convinced something substantial is left out because either the OP doesn't think it is important or simply overlooked it. Again, this is normal.

There is always a chance of that, but regardless what the OP did, the current system where they ban you and not offer the exact reason or reply is bullshit.

Whilst reading through the thread and reading the customer support about it, the real baffling thing is that they can't provide an actual reason. Only that they are sorry that it got suspended because of breach of code of conduct. This is juror-speak for ''We know you are wrong, but as customer support i can't point to you where you are wrong. But you should have read the EULA first before you consented.'' Which honestly, is such a coward thing to do.

OP should at the very least demand which exact part of the EULA was broken. Just redirecting them to the EULA with no pinpoints is not only lazy work on the customer support side, its also a stupid catch-all and that is what shouldn't be legal.

I can't see anything on PSN for just "Barso". But then again, I only had a quick look because the friends search is shit on PS tbh.

For the people saying its because of Concord beta, I'm not so sure. This is what it says for pre ordering -


From Sony UK refund page -

I am also thinking that Sony holds a data set of OP that is some sort of profile that proves that OP is OP, and that this profile is used to ban OP, without questioning if the dataset is wrong.

I think I misjudged that thread. I think what created the email being sent was because I I accidentally entered the wrong password when accessing my account on the web.
It must think your account is being hacked and send an automated email advising you to change your password.
Apologies.

That mail or atleast the moment when that happened is an important timeline:

• When did this happen?
• What did you do?
• To whom did you mail?
• What was the mailaddress that told you to change your password?

 

[rubik's dude]

I've sent emails asking for more help and clarification to: siee.dpo@sony.com, help@uk.playstation.com, SIEE_European_Customer_Service@scee.net, playstation.support@sony.com, and mark_bowles@scee.net.
I've also sent a letter to Munesh Mahtani who is one of the board of directors, I had gotten his information from this website: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03277793/officers
I also sent a letter to Mark Bowles who is general manager, Northern Europe and territory lead, UK Ireland at PlayStation.
I've also asked for a SAR/GDPR request from their Data Protection Officer and also from our Information Commissioner Office.
I've also contacted BBC Watchdog and Eurogamer.
Not one single reply apart from this badly written response from: playstation.support@sony.com

Weird that they would tell you that you breached their code of conduct and Terms of Service, but won't tell you in what way it was breached.

But then again, I've sat in on meetings with managers who have had to do the same thing for an employee. All the manager would say is the code of conduct was violated, and when the employee would ask why, they wouldn't tell them. It was usually to protect the accuser after an investigation though, otherwise the person being accused could probably deduce who reported them based on what was reported and retaliate, which would become a legal nightmare for the company.

It's likely they're stonewalling you for the same reason, to protect themselves legally. The more information they voluntarily give you, the greater the risk to them. So unless they (legally) have to give you information, they won't.

 

[SidViscous]

It should be criminal they don't give you a clear reason, how are you supposed to even object and defend yourself.

"There has been no mistake in our judgement" but they won't tell you what it is, that's like me redacting my exam and handing it to the teacher and saying "I got it all right so it's fine"

Even if it turns out OP is account sharing with Kim Jong Un and getting his CD keys from people smuggling them in their arse, Sony are still in the wrong for how they are handling it.

I'm too lazy to check 9 pages but have you tried emailing the news desks at gaming websites? seems like an easy story to run given the shitty response you have screenshots of.

 

[GHG]

I've sent emails asking for more help and clarification to: siee.dpo@sony.com, help@uk.playstation.com, SIEE_European_Customer_Service@scee.net, playstation.support@sony.com, and mark_bowles@scee.net.
I've also sent a letter to Munesh Mahtani who is one of the board of directors, I had gotten his information from this website: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03277793/officers
I also sent a letter to Mark Bowles who is general manager, Northern Europe and territory lead, UK Ireland at PlayStation.
I've also asked for a SAR/GDPR request from their Data Protection Officer and also from our Information Commissioner Office.
I've also contacted BBC Watchdog and Eurogamer.
Not one single reply apart from this badly written response from: playstation.support@sony.com

You need to get them to be more specific.

If it is "fraud" then these are the clauses that you will need to look closely at at refer to in your defence:

8. If we have evidence that a Voucher Code has been fraudulently obtained and used on PSN we may:

8.1. permanently or temporarily suspend affected accounts for PSN;

8.2. request alternative forms of payment; and/or

8.3. take the various actions set out in the PSN Terms of Service.

PSN Voucher Code Terms and Conditions

www.playstation.com

And:

26.5. Do not use stolen or illegally acquired Authorised Systems or Products.

PSN Terms of Service

Everything you need to know to use PlayStation Network, including safe online conduct, PlayStation Store terms and our commitment to you.

www.playstation.com

And if you or any of your card companies ever initiated a chargeback:

19. Chargebacks

19.1. A chargeback happens when your payment service provider (i.e. the supplier of your payment method such as a bank, or PayPal), reverses a payment you made. A chargeback of a sum paid to us for Products we provided results in a debt to us equal to the amount of the chargeback.

19.2. As a chargeback can indicate you suspect fraud or account take-over, we will suspend your account or console to protect it while we investigate. If there is no lawful reason for the chargeback, your account will remain suspended until the debt is repaid. We may deduct funds from your PSN Wallet to pay any debt owed by you to us.

PSN Terms of Service

Everything you need to know to use PlayStation Network, including safe online conduct, PlayStation Store terms and our commitment to you.

www.playstation.com

You absolutely have a right to be told the specific reasons for your ban and how they arrived at their final decision. At this stage, that is what you need to push for so that you can understand what exactly you're fighting against before taking it any further.

 

[Forth]

How in God's Fuck is this thread still happening.
Good lord if i could just remember that one contact that solved similar scenario's in the past. I am well aware of these ''Sony PS4 got duped'' stuff, Reddit had some huge ass superthread on how to deal with it and it worked every single time.

Ideally, OP should write out every step done with every detail written out, no cutsies. Because only then you can gauge something. Either that, or directly looking in their details. Because i am fairly convinced something substantial is left out because either the OP doesn't think it is important or simply overlooked it. Again, this is normal.

I am also thinking that Sony holds a data set of OP that is some sort of profile that proves that OP is OP, and that this profile is used to ban OP, without questioning if the dataset is wrong.

That mail or atleast the moment when that happened is an important timeline:

• When did this happen?
• What did you do?
• To whom did you mail?
• What was the mailaddress that told you to change your password?

I understand your frustration, you're coming into a gaming forum and you want to read gaming news and this thread is still on the first page so if the mods want to kill it then I honestly don't mind.
I'm being as honest as I possibly can, I'm hiding nothing because hiding anything doesn't help any of the users posts help me.
I've always been extremely privacy minded when using my PS5, I had about four PS5 consoles individually but I always purchased them from reputable retailers and always restored to factory settings when sold, I know what to do before selling or getting rid of a console and to remove my online identity from it.
Your second part about the password email, I honestly think it was just sent as a precaution because I entered the wrong password and they alerted me.
I didn't mail anyone, I accidentally entered the wrong password into my PSN web account and it alerted me by email, I received that email in February 2024.

 

[Forth]

Weird that they would tell you that you breached their code of conduct and Terms of Service, but won't tell you in what way it was breached.

But then again, I've sat in on meetings with managers who have had to do the same thing for an employee. All the manager would say is the code of conduct was violated, and when the employee would ask why, they wouldn't tell them. It was usually to protect the accuser after an investigation though, otherwise the person being accused could probably deduce who reported them based on what was reported and retaliate, which would become a legal nightmare for the company.

It's likely they're stonewalling you for the same reason, to protect themselves legally. The more information they voluntarily give you, the greater the risk to them. So unless they (legally) have to give you information, they won't.

What I don't understand is what's protecting them by not giving me the information on why they have come to an agreement that I committed fraud?
What likely reasons and risks would be imposed if I was told what actually happened?

 

[Forth]

You need to get them to be more specific.

If it is "fraud" then these are the clauses that you will need to look closely at at refer to in your defence:

PSN Voucher Code Terms and Conditions

www.playstation.com

And:

PSN Terms of Service

Everything you need to know to use PlayStation Network, including safe online conduct, PlayStation Store terms and our commitment to you.

www.playstation.com

And if you or any of your card companies ever initiated a chargeback:

PSN Terms of Service

Everything you need to know to use PlayStation Network, including safe online conduct, PlayStation Store terms and our commitment to you.

www.playstation.com

You absolutely have a right to be told the specific reasons for your ban and how they arrived at their final decision. At this stage, that is what you need to push for so that you can understand what exactly you're fighting against before taking it any further.

I definitely have not used any stolen hardware and I definitely have not done any chargebacks because I'm unable to, I don't own any credit cards, I only ever use debit cards.
I even had PlayStation Plus due to run out in about three years.

 

[Redneckerz]

I understand your frustration, you're coming into a gaming forum and you want to read gaming news and this thread is still on the first page so if the mods want to kill it then I honestly don't mind.

That's honestly not my frustration funny enough. Unlike a lot of posters who simply need NeoGAF to function as people (jk), i have been sideballing this thread for the last week and am just amazed its still here with no answer.

Hence why i went to posting. This needs to be fixed.

I also remember from another thread that the only real way to fixing is calling all the way up to the highest tree. Forfeit customer support, you need the actual Karen.

Your second part about the password email, I honestly think it was just sent as a precaution because I entered the wrong password and they alerted me.

From which mail address?

I didn't mail anyone, I accidentally entered the wrong password into my PSN web account and it alerted me by email.

What was the URL of that mail? I am sorry, i am going to ask really direct questions because this is also my line of work (or one of my lines of work). I didn't write that whole diatribe about people intentionally or unintentionally missing details for no reason - People time and time again will leave out details if they think it isn't important to the story. So we need exact details. If you don't want to do this in public due to personal info, lets do it through DM.

What I don't understand is what's protecting them by not giving me the information on why they have come to an agreement that I committed fraud?
What likely reasons and risks would be imposed if I was told what actually happened?

This is exactly why i think we are missing details.

 

[rubik's dude]

What I don't understand is what's protecting them by not giving me the information on why they have come to an agreement that I committed fraud?
What likely reasons and risks would be imposed if I was told what actually happened?

Dunno, that's a good question.

I agree that it's scummy that they aren't telling you why, but from their perspective, the more information they give to you that they aren't legally required to reveal, the more their liability increases. So they won't do it without some sort of injunction. That's what I'd work on pursuing.

 

[Forth]

I understand your frustration, you're coming into a gaming forum and you want to read gaming news and this thread is still on the first page so if the mods want to kill it then I honestly don't mind

Your second part about the password email, I honestly think it was just sent as a precaution because I entered the wrong password and they alerted me.
I didn't mail anyone, I accidentally entered the wrong password into my PSN web account and it alerted me by email, I received that email in February 2024.

That's honestly not my frustration funny enough. Unlike a lot of posters who simply need NeoGAF to function as people (jk), i have been sideballing this thread for the last week and am just amazed its still here with no answer.

Hence why i went to posting. This needs to be fixed.

I also remember from another thread that the only real way to fixing is calling all the way up to the highest tree. Forfeit customer support, you need the actual Karen.

From which mail address?

What was the URL of that mail? I am sorry, i am going to ask really direct questions because this is also my line of work (or one of my lines of work). I didn't write that whole diatribe about people intentionally or unintentionally missing details for no reason - People time and time again will leave out details if they think it isn't important to the story. So we need exact details. If you don't want to do this in public due to personal info, lets do it through DM.

This is exactly why i think we are missing details.

The mail address was from PlayStation support but I didn't click the link within that email to change my password, I went back into the PSN webpage and requested a password reset and when that email arrived I clicked the link within that to reset it.
I also every once in a while checked the Sony account website to ensure that only one PlayStation device was linked to my account.
One strange thing that happened at the start of this week was my PSN email I had, I had deleted that email about two months after getting permanently suspended because I'd given up on trying to retrieve it so I asked the support rep to change it to my new one recently so that any PSN emails would be directed to my new one, the support rep said he could not do it.
So because I couldn't access my PSN account I couldn't do it either.
But I typed in Sony account which would take me to this web site: https://id.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/signin/?ui=pr&response_type=token&scope=openid:user_id openidnline_id openid:ctry_code openid:lang user:account.communication.get kamaji:get_account_hash oauth:manage_user_auth_sessions openid:acct_uuid user:account.authentication.mode.get user:account.phone.masked.get user:account.notification.create openid:content_ctrl user:account.changepassword.update user:account.subaccounts.get openid:adult_verification_status openid:dob user:account.age.verification.get user:account.ageAssurance.check user:account.ageAssurance.finish user:account.ageAssurance.methods.get user:account.ageAssurance.mobileCheck user:account.ageAssurance.start user:account.phone.verify.start user:account.session.phone.set user:session.create openid:age kamaji:activity_feed_get_feed_privacy pdr:cam can:context.user.get can:context.user.set user:basicProfile.get user:basicProfile.update user:verifiedAccount.get kamaji:account_link_user_link_account user:data.request.create user:data.request.status.get user:data.report.get user:basicProfile.avatar.update kamaji:get_internal_entitlements avatar:user.system.get user:account.realName.get user:account.communicationRestrictionStatus.get user:account.restrictions.get ias:account.onlineIdChange.get user:account.onlineId.get usernlineIdSuggestion.get kamaji:activity_feed_set_feed_privacy user:account.identityMapper user:account.email.create user:account.emailVerification.get user:account.tosua.update ucs:userConsents.prompt.get ucs:userConsents.grant ucs:userConsents.get ucs:userConsents.revoke connectedIdentityartner.link.account.get connectedIdentityartner.link.account.manage connectedIdentityartner.link.metadata.get device:get device:update device:activate openid:acct_id_str deviceManagement:devices.deactivateAll digitalRightsManagementremiumServices.update&redirect_uri=https://id.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/id/management/?entry=p&pr_referer=cam&no_captcha=true&client_id=ce381e15-9cdd-4cf9-8384-0cf63db17f6a&state=cam_3cc10fb68b53c6245fe51e13fb231570&error=login_required&error_code=4165&error_description=User+is+not+authenticated&no_captcha=true#/signin?entry=/signin

And from there I could change my PSN email to my new one, that website looked like this image below, I was also able to change my security question and also turn off 2FA:

but now when I login to the above website I get the permanently suspended alert.

 

[ReBurn]

The more I read this the more I think this is what has happened.
They probably don't see a chargeback on a redeemed top-up code the same as a chargeback on a credit/debit card purchase from the store.
It's a shame because if I was suspended on a chargeback straight away when using a top-up code then I could far easily track it back to the key seller such as CDKEYS and hopefully regain accesses to my account by swallowing the cost myself and never using that key seller again and also making other members aware of what has happened.
If CDKEYS are guilty in these situations you would think it would be all over gaming forums, websites and social media.
There's something extremely fishy going on here.

Sony will ban people who purchase content directly from the PlayStation store if they do a chargeback. There are lots of stories out there about accounts being banned after a chargeback, especially if someone contacted PlayStation support for a refund and were refused and then decided to do it through their card issuer. They don't seem to provide those folks with a detailed explanation for their ban, either. But it's easier for someone to know what happened if it happens right after they initiate a chargeback against a PS store charge.

I doubt Sony is going to care if you were scammed through a third-party key seller. They may care if you were scammed through one of their affiliates, but CDKeys isn't an official seller. There are a few tales out there about CDKeys not helping when the codes they sell are bad for whatever reason. I know someone who received store credit for a bad key a few times, but never a refund.

I've personally never had an issue with a key I bought from CDKeys, but it's still an "at your own risk" proposition if a transaction facilitated by them goes bad.

 

[Neff]

After reading through most of this thread, I'm glad I'm pretty much done with Consoles

Don't buy codes from shady resellers. Don't pop off online. Make sure your account is secure and payment methods up to date.

It's pretty easy to keep your nose clean in the digital console space.

 

[Forth]

Sony will ban people who purchase content directly from the PlayStation store if they do a chargeback. There are lots of stories out there about accounts being banned after a chargeback, especially if someone contacted PlayStation support for a refund and were refused and then decided to do it through their card issuer. They don't seem to provide those folks with a detailed explanation for their ban, either. But it's easier for someone to know what happened if it happens right after they initiate a chargeback against a PS store charge.

I doubt Sony is going to care if you were scammed through a third-party key seller. They may care if you were scammed through one of their affiliates, but CDKeys isn't an official seller. There are a few tales out there about CDKeys not helping when the codes they sell are bad for whatever reason. I know someone who received store credit for a bad key a few times, but never a refund.

I've personally never had an issue with a key I bought from CDKeys, but it's still an "at your own risk" proposition if a transaction facilitated by them goes bad.

Definitely and we all know the risk, Sony want you to use their one affiliates without a doubt because they can control the narrative there.
But then why not just state that's the fraud issue and let me fix it by reimbursing the key that was reported stolen?
Why lose an eighteen year PSN network customer who regularly purchased items from the store too without offering some sort of customer service and support?
They have eighteen years of data on me, surely they can see there's something just not right here.

 

[Kerotan]

Definitely and we all know the risk, Sony want you to use their one affiliates without a doubt because they can control the narrative there.
But then why not just state that's the fraud issue and let me fix it by reimbursing the key that was reported stolen?
Why lose an eighteen year PSN network customer who regularly purchased items from the store too without offering some sort of customer service and support?
They have eighteen years of data on me, surely they can see there's something just not right here.

Don't they normally give you the ability to rectify those chargebacks. Maybe you missed the email back then or something went wrong and you never received it.